70 replies to this topic

[Chris Amirault]

Every now and then since December 2004, a good number of us have been getting together at the eGullet Recipe Cook-Off. Click here for the Cook-Off index.

With the weather turning cold in the northern hemispere and the Cook-Off having avoided French cuisine for a little while, it's time to dabble with daubes. There are few things as restoring as a daube, the classic French braised meat stew (usually beef, though not always) that has as many recipes as adults in France. It also helps to develop several crucial braising techniques that will come in handy over the next few months for many of us, and if you develop a lovely relationship with your butcher in preparation for same, all the better.

I've found two daube recipes quite wonderful: a fairly straightforward one from Saveur Cooks Authentic French and the other, "Daube of Beef in the Style of Gascony," from our own redoubtable Paula Wolfert and her Cooking of Southwest France. That multiday recipe was the cooking highlight of my holidays last year, and the best beef that my guests had ever eaten. (click here for the link to a discussion of my experience with that recipe.) Wolfert also kindly placed this recipe for oxtail daube into RecipeGullet; you can also click here for snowangel's prep and execution of the dish.

There aren't hundreds of posts on daube around here, but there are quite a few interesting topics, such as one that considers Catalan Tuna Daube and another that asks the question, "Daube with veal?" Variationson the traditional beef daube can be found here and there, including in this topic on Daube de Gardian.

[SuzySushi]

No other responses? I'm in! I have a recipe for Daube de Boeuf I've been using for several years now... don't remember which cookbook it came from. The recipe says it serves 8; I've never had it serve more than 4... everyone laps it up. Will get the ingredients and try to make it over the weekend.

[snowangel]

No other responses? I'm in! I have a recipe for Daube de Boeuf I've been using for several years now... don't remember which cookbook it came from. The recipe says it serves 8; I've never had it serve more than 4... everyone laps it up. Will get the ingredients and try to make it over the weekend.

What cut of beef? I'd have a hard time justifying oxtails again -- they are really expensive!

And, does anyone have any ideas for a Venison Daube? I've got to get my freezer emptied out because I'm prepping for two more deer later this month...

Edited to add: a google search reveals two that look different and interesting -- one with coriander and cumin and one with dried cranberries.

Off to dig a package of venison out of the freezer.

And, while I'm editing, I really, really like Paula's advice to remove the meat from the liquid and fridge them both separately, and reheat gently. Repeat procedure once more.

[Grub]

Oh I'm in on this one!

[SuzySushi]

No other responses? I'm in! I have a recipe for Daube de Boeuf I've been using for several years now... don't remember which cookbook it came from. The recipe says it serves 8; I've never had it serve more than 4... everyone laps it up. Will get the ingredients and try to make it over the weekend.

What cut of beef? I'd have a hard time justifying oxtails again -- they are really expensive!

And, does anyone have any ideas for a Venison Daube? I've got to get my freezer emptied out because I'm prepping for two more deer later this month...

The recipe I use calls for beef bottom round roast.

[snowangel]

Now I'm finding another venison daube recipe that calls for red currants. Where do I get them? Any ideas?

[eje]

Perhaps Lamb Daube tomorrow, if I can score a couple pounds of shoulder this evening and get it marinating.

[jackal10]

I like the recipes in Elizabeth David's French Provincial cooking, She gives both a classic Provencal version, and a Creole version with Olives and rum instead of wine.

In modern restaurant cooking you are likely to get a travesty, with all the components cooked separately.

There are several components of the dish:

a. The meat
Traditionally, but not necessarily beef.
Ideally it should be a stewing cut, such as top rump, so that the long slow cooking converts the collagen into melting tenderness; a roasting cut would just fall apart. It can be whole or in cubes or rectangles.
In modern practice this might be cooked sous vide, and since its not cooked long enough to gelatanise, could be steak.


b) The juice: Reduced wine, and good stock, Some pork rind adds additional gelatin.

c) Aromatics: Much choice: Some of bouquet garni, Thyme, rosemary, bay, onions, carrot, celery, garlic, parsley stalk, tomatoes, olives. dry orange or lemon rind

d) Garnishes: Bacon cut into matchsticks and pearl onions browned, persillade of finely chopped garlic and parsley.

Traditional mehod: Put everything except the garnish into a pot or saucepan, and barley simmer for anything from 2 to 8 hours; remove the boquet garni and any tired veg, defat the sauce and add garnish. Eat with pasta, good bread and wine and maybe a plain salad. Even better reheated next day.

Modern restaurant way: Cook the meat sous vide with the aromatics If you are using stewing meat cook at 75C for 12 hours; for steak at 57C for an hour.
Make a sauce separately, with wine reduced to syrup and demi-glace, more aromatics
Prepare brunoise of vegetables (carrot, tomato, celery etc)
Prepare garnish (bacon, pearl onions browned, persillade)
At service hot assemble...

[CKatCook]

I wanna play too!!!


I have never made this.....ever....I am excited to try! I will get the ingredients tomorrow (11/10) and make it. Only I don't have a camera, is one required to make a photo of your results?

[mizducky]

Hi, I'm feeling a little ignorant here. Could someone explain a little more about daube? I see so many variations when I search for recipes (for instance, some sear the meat first, some don't, some marinate the meat first, some don't, etc.). Are there a set of characteristics that make a dish an authentic daube as opposed to some other style of braised meat dish (or a modernized less-authentic adaptation)? Or is it one of those terms used in so many ways that it's just hard to pin down?

(signed, day late/dollar short duckling)

[jackal10]

The key characteristic is long slow cooking in a wine flavoured sauce,
If the wine is Burgundy is a Bourguigonne, otherwise its a Daube. Pretty much everything else is up to the cook. Its a rustic dish originally, and I guess everything went into the pot that was available.

[mizducky]

The key characteristic is long slow cooking in a wine flavoured sauce,
If the wine is Burgundy is a Bourguigonne, otherwise its a Daube. Pretty much everything else is up to the cook. Its a rustic dish originally, and I guess everything went into the pot that was available.

Thanks, that's very helpful--especially the difference between Bourguignonne vs. daube.

Edited by mizducky, 09 November 2006 - 05:40 PM.

[Pam R]

Only I don't have a camera, is one required to make a photo of your results?

Appreciated, but not required! All you need to participate is to cook and tell.



Oh, I'm in too.

[AmyDaniel]

I've been wanting to make this daube d'Avignon for a long time: even though it's not summer, I think I'll give it a shot!

Hopefully I'll have enough time next week...Great idea for a cook-off!

[Richard Kilgore]

I'm in, as soon as the temperature drops under the 70s here. I'll either do Paula's or one of James Beard's or The Avignon lamb daube in Richard Olney's Simple French Food. The latter I can also recommend for a helpful discussion of French stews in general, including ragouts, daubes and sautes.

Here's a modern version of a daubiere the traditional clay pot used.

[CKatCook]

I am soooooo excited to do this. I have never made a traditional french dish. I may break down and make bread and all....

[Chris Amirault]

What cut of beef?  I'd have a hard time justifying oxtails again -- they are really expensive!

I've always used chuck.

And, does anyone have any ideas for a Venison Daube?  I've got to get my freezer emptied out because I'm prepping for two more deer later this month...

I mentioned to Susan that there's a good civet of venison in the Saveur book mentioned in the first post above, and, unlike a traditional civet, it lacks the blood. It's more like a daube in that way than not....

And, while I'm editing, I really, really like Paula's advice to remove the meat from the liquid and fridge them both separately, and reheat gently.  Repeat procedure once more.

The steps in that recipe are all worth doing, I must say -- and they take time. I urge those folks who are doing her recipe to carve out a good chunk of time for it. Single sentences require pretty involved procedures. So, when I read this,

I am soooooo excited to do this. I have never made a traditional french dish. I may break down and make bread and all....

I thought, maybe stick to the daube first time around!

[CKatCook]

yeah, you are right..just a little overly ambitious....

[Busboy]

Aside from their being, perhaps, from different regions, is there any real difference between a daube and a pot au feu?

[Chris Amirault]

Paula Wolfert sent me this photo for us to check out of a Provencal daubiere:

[jackal10]

Aside from their being, perhaps, from different regions, is there any real difference between a daube and a pot au feu?

I'm not French but to me a pot au feu is basically soup and does not have wine as a major component, The meat is usually in one piece, and served as separate dishes, - soup and the meat, even at separate meals. The soup is the glory of the pot au feu, with the meat, the boulli, almost an afterthought and used up in various dishes, such as salads, miroton, rissoles and croquettes

A daube is a wine based braising liquid and the meat is in cubes or rectangles, say 2 inch x 2 inch x 0,5 inch, where the meat is the main point, and the liquid reduced to a sauce

[eje]

Where is the line drawn between ragout and daube?

Is one a superset or subset of the other?

[Richard Kilgore]

I'm in, as soon as the temperature drops under the 70s here. I'll either do Paula's or one of James Beard's or The Avignon lamb daube in Richard Olney's Simple French Food. The latter I can also recommend for a helpful discussion of French stews in general, including ragouts, daubes and sautes.

Here's a modern version of a daubiere the traditional clay pot used.

Paula Wolfert sent me this photo for us to check out of a Provencal daubiere:

That's the one in the link above. You too can daube in a daubiere.

[jackal10]

Where is the line drawn between ragout and daube?

Is one a superset or subset of the other?

I wish some real French experts would reply...

A ragout to me although a stew, is more of a thick sauce, often with the meat minced or finely chopped and strongly seasoned. For example a Bolognaise sauce is a ragout. An old term, derived from old French "ragouster", meaning to revive the appetite, in turn from the Latin for taste.

[Abra]

I wonder whether a tagine could substitute for the daubiere, since it too promotes condensation and minimizes evaporation.

I have a luncheon next week, and if the weather continues stormy and cold like it is now, a daube would be the perfect thing.

[bleudauvergne]

A daube can be made with just about any meat or game. I think the big differences are thickening agents and the liquid, daubes involve wine, and traditionally used gelatinous thickeners like couenne or veal feet, whereas a ragout is just a general word for a stew that uses stock of even water, and are often thickened with flour.

[Pontormo]

Where is the line drawn between ragout and daube?

Is one a superset or subset of the other?

I wish some real French experts would reply...

A ragout to me although a stew, is more of a thick sauce, often with the meat minced or finely chopped and strongly seasoned. For example a Bolognaise sauce is a ragout. An old term, derived from old French "ragouster", meaning to revive the appetite, in turn from the Latin for taste.

I also thought ragouts were stews and therefore believed a daube to be a type of stew, though I don't know enough to say whether or not the latter is a subset falling under the general rubric of "ragout."**

A Bolognese is a ragu --but NOT a real ragu according to some purists who insist on calling it a "sugo" (sauce) or simply a "bolognese" to distinguish it from a ragu, especially an expert from Naples who is a member of eGullet. Here's a fascinating, and at points, passionate thread in which the process of making a Neapolitan ragu is documented. You'll see the featured ingredient of this long-cooked dish is, in fact, a large piece of meat, served separately from what is used to sauce pasta. Here's Adam Balic's photographed documentation; the heated discussion begins earlier (around post 41?) and includes references to the French word "ragout."

**ETA: Elizabeth David distinguishes ragouts from daubes in French Provincial Cooking, at least by treating them as separate categories. (Penguin ed., p. 94.) Is it the wine marinade? She includes a brief note on La Daube Viennoise, crediting Paul-Louis Couchon as the author of a French description she translates. He recalls an Easter dish in which the family pours wine, spirits and spices on beef and chickens. Now (ca. 1956), he says a veal rump is served with tail and kidneys on a bed of leeks (p. 452).

Edited by Pontormo, 10 November 2006 - 11:36 AM.

[bleudauvergne]

Looking through some of my traditional references I'm finding on my bookshelf for the Daube a l'Ancienne - I don't think it's a coincedence that several of them also include cognac.

[Wolfert]

I always thought daube cooking is a method not a recipe.

Usually marinated meat and vegetables are packed tightly into a container, preferably earthenware, so that everything is completely wine-soaked during long slow cooking. The Provencal daubiere is ideal with its belly shape and its narrow neck which is fitted with a top that is deeply scooped-out and filled with cold water to insure a constant recycling of condensation during cooking on top of the stove or in the fireplace. If you cook your daube in the oven, you can use a sheet of crumbled parchment paper atop of the meat to insure recycling of moisture.

Abra, rather than use your tagine, I would suggest a bean pot, a narrowish and tall casserole such as the Columbian black chamba pot, a dutch oven, or a four quart Chinese sand pot (www.gourmetsleuth.com) to keep the heat steady and low.

In Provence, daubes are made with red or white wine marinated beef cheeks, shanks or shoulder, lamb shoulder or shanks, pork or wild boar shoulder, often teamed with olives, capers and anchovies, carrots or mushrooms, then served with pasta, rice or gnocchi. Tuna tummy and octopus are also cooked in daubes.

In the French south-west, daubes are made with duck gizzards, onions, mushrooms, goose with radishes or turnips, or mixed parts of beef (cheek, shank and shoulder) with baby onions and prunes, or with Bayonne ham and piment d'espelette.

[Wolfert]

Daubes benefit from an advance preparation.


Jim Ainsworth writing in the London Observer (04/27/1997) describes chef Jean-Christophe Novelli's Five-day beef daube: the first day he seasons the meat; the following two days the meat is placed in a cooked red wine marinade; on day four he strains out the vegetables and cooks the meat in the remaining liquid marinade; and on day five he degreases the dish and reheats it for service.

Edited by Wolfert, 10 November 2006 - 02:23 PM.