193 replies to this topic

[cinghiale]

The grains were "farro" yes? Mostly it is translated as spelt, but that is only partially true. Farro is a term which covers a number of species of primative wheat. One of these is spelt, but the one that is more commonly used in soup, salads and risotto (I have had an excellent version of this at La delphina) is Farro Medio. This is an ancestor of modern hard wheats used in pasta making.

Farro information

In my Umbria cookbook, Julia della Croce emphatically states that spelt is an incorrect translation of farro; it's emmer wheat, she says. So, I followed Adam's link with interest. According to Abundantlifeseed.org, she's only partially correct:

Large farro:

Altgolt Spelt (COG) T. spelta the German wheat of colonial America, was once the principal wheat in Europe. Treat as winter wheat. Grows in thick clumps and difficult to thresh. Heirloom, Rare.

Small farro:

Black Einkorn (COG) T. monococcom a beautiful form of domesticated wheat, disease resistant and tolerates poor soil, but low yields. Small headed, small seeded wheat with 2 rows and black highlights on the husks and awns. Grows wild in Near East and grown as relic crop in Turkey. Delicate and very striking in flower arrangements. Does not thresh easily. Rare. BULK

Medium farro:

Emmer (COG) T. dicoccum spring variety, durum type, tall, large seeded, 4 row with big chestnut brown heads and thick straw. Also good for weaving. An impressive grain–incredible in the garden. Heirloom. BULK

[Adam Balic]

Wheat genetics is very complicated, so any generalisation will have errors. A simple family tree is;

Eikorn (14 chromosomes) X wild grass (14 chromosomes)
|
"Emmer" type wheat (28 chromosomes) = 'hard' durum type wheats after generations of human breeding (ie. Emmer wheat is the original form).

Emmer X another 14 chromosome wild grass
|
"Modern" soft or bread wheats (42 chromosomes)


Farro is also the wheat that Roman soldiers took with them as part of their daily rations. Unfortunely, I'm not sure which farro exactly, but most likely Medium Durum type farro.

Edited by Adam Balic, 05 August 2003 - 08:49 AM.

[flushingflash]

Greetings- My wife and I will be spending 3 or 4 nights in Tuscany in late December, in between visits of similar length to both Rome and Florence. We live in San Francisco, enjoy great food and wine, but have never traveled to this region of Italy before. We are open to any suggestions for a 3 day itinerary that would possibly include lodging and dining recommendations. For example, if we want to visit wineries, and eat great food, are we better off staying in Montalcino or Montepulciano (or neither for that matter)? We are not seeking luxury accomodations necessarily, but unique inns or hotels.

Thanks in advance for any ideas!
-Steven

[menton1]

I don't know if you will have a car--

If you do, I recommend San Gimignano, a wonderful, medieval, atmospheric town very centrally located. Over a dozen remaining towers where they used to dump hot tar over each other. (They no longer do that!) At that time of year, it should not be over-touristed, either. A wonderful hotel within the walls is La Cisterna, where we had a lovely stay a couple of years ago. Ask for a room facing the valley, the view will be breathtaking. Hotel La Cisterna

A lovely restaurant right in town is La Vecchia Mura, actually built into the town walls. Very authentic, non-touristy restaurant with great food and reasonable prices.

[DaleJ]

My wife and I stayed, a few years ago, in an apartment at Fattoria Barbi, a couple of km south of Montalcino. Barbi is, of course, a big producer of Brunello with an acclaimed restaurant on the premises. I assume they have a website. The town of Montalcino is very walkable and the old rocco is now a wine tasting center. Its also close to Montepuciano and Pienza, with great local pecorino. I assume you will have a car.

[cak]

I highly recommend Montalcino as a great place to stay - extremely friendly town, not too large, good restaurants and many wine bars where you can taste local Brunello. We were there in August (TOO HOT!!) and stayed at a lovely place that is a converted olive factory - called Vecchia Oliviera, right as you enter the town. We enjoyed visiting Pienza, Montepulciano, which are only short drives from Montalcino. Also the Abbazia di San Antimo is nice to visit. If you enjoy walking, get the book "Walking and Eating in Tuscany" (Amazon carries it) - we did one of their walks and thoroughly enjoyed being in the countryside. (I disagree with the person who favored San Gimignano - it is thoroughly touristy, a Renaissance Disneyland. Montalcino is much more real)

[RRainey]

Do you like small rural towns, Yet close to Mantalcino? My suggestion San Quirco D' Orcia.
Search the site www.slowtrav.com there are hotel recommendations there,many of the people on that board live in Italy.Warning the board is addictive,i have posted about 800 messages in less than a year! RR

[flushingflash]

I highly recommend Montalcino as a great place to stay - extremely friendly town, not too large, good restaurants and many wine bars where you can taste local Brunello. We were there in August (TOO HOT!!) and stayed at a lovely place that is a converted olive factory - called Vecchia Oliviera, right as you enter the town. We enjoyed visiting Pienza, Montepulciano, which are only short drives from Montalcino. Also the Abbazia di San Antimo is nice to visit. If you enjoy walking, get the book "Walking and Eating in Tuscany" (Amazon carries it) - we did one of their walks and thoroughly enjoyed being in the countryside. (I disagree with the person who favored San Gimignano - it is thoroughly touristy, a Renaissance Disneyland. Montalcino is much more real)

Thanks a lot for the tips on Montalcino; sounds right up our alley. Any other restaurant ideas?

[theakston]

We also liked the Hotel Cisterna in San Gimignano.
We spent the rest of our stay in this place just outside of Cortona:

villa piazzano
I can really recommend it. It is a special place.

A lot will depend on where you want to be based and what kind of experience you are looking for. This was a lot more secluded than the Cisterna, which is in the center of the town, but this means that it was convenient for many restaurants. The villa piazzano is much more secluded.

Edited by theakston, 13 November 2003 - 11:06 AM.

[RRainey]

I would avoid cortona like the plague. That is where the Under the Tuscan Overdevelopment and tourist stampede is happening. A good lesson of how to take a nice town and turn it into Disneyland.
What is next Under the Tuscan sun underwear and condoms? RR

[flushingflash]

Do you like small rural towns, Yet close to Mantalcino? My suggestion San Quirco D' Orcia.
Search the site www.slowtrav.com there are hotel recommendations there,many of the people on that board live in Italy.Warning the board is addictive,i have posted about 800 messages in less than a year! RR

RR- Yes we like smaller rural towns, and we are really looking for a "base of operations" for the 4 days that we will be in the Tuscany countryside so that we can do day trips (rent-a-car) to visit wineries and other towns nearby. Is Montalcino a good choice?

FF

[theakston]

I would avoid cortona like the plague. That is where the Under the Tuscan Overdevelopment and tourist stampede is happening. A good lesson of how to take a nice town and turn it into Disneyland.
What is next Under the Tuscan sun underwear and condoms? RR

Whatever your thoughts are on Frances Mayes (and I think mine are the same) the villa I recommended is far enough away from the town, set in a very rural setting and is a good place to explore from. We only visited Cortona briefly during our stay. While there is a lot of jumping on the Mayes bandwagon, I didn't see much evidence of overdevelopment. In fact it was rather quiet - but this was October. I definitely didn't see any under-the-sun condoms.

Edited by theakston, 13 November 2003 - 12:13 PM.

[giovanni]

Two good restaurant choices close to Montalcino --- though not in the town itself:

1. Osteria del Vecchio Castello --- a beautiful setting in an old, restored 13th century church close to the Banfi winery. Wonderful food, professional/courteous service and an impressive wine list with a broad selection of the finest Brunellos, many from older/highly regarded vintages. Overall Gambero Rosso 2003 rating: 84 (with a 47 for food and a 17 for the wine list). I have been there twice and enjoyed it very much both times.

2. Banfi --- located at the Banfi winery. I have not been there personally, but several friends have been and have enjoyed it very much. Would be a good choice if you want to combine a winery visit/tour with a leisurely lunch (though there are --- in my opinion --- vastly better/more interesting wineries/vineyards to visit in the area, Banfi is actually a good one to visit as it is geared up to handle impromptu visits and has been designed with tourism in mind; it's also owned by Americans --- an interesting fact given that it is one of the largest producers in Italy). The restaurant ties with Osteria del Vecchio Castello in the Gambero Rosso guide: an overall score of 84. It's food rating is better than ODVC --- a 50 --- while it's wine list only earns a 12. This doesn't surprise me, as I believe that the Banfi wine list is limited to the estate's own wines.

My other two cents worth:

I would agree that San Gimignano is a tourist trap. Although I would not recommend staying there, you shouldn't miss it. Especially for a first time visitor to Tuscany, it's a must see --- an unusual medieval hilltown, with towers that have made it known as the "Manhattan" of Tuscany. Make a day trip there for a few hours.

A general piece of advice: check well advance with anywhere you plan to stay or eat --- during December, many rural hotels, inns and restaurants are closed in the Tuscan countryside, though that fact is not always well publicized. You'll avoid a lot of disappointment, frustration and fatigue if things are mapped out/confirmed ahead of time. Maybe not as much fun as a spontaneous drive to stumble upon that quaint, memorable spot that many times appears out of nowhere, but a much better bet for a first time visitor during this quiet time of the year. Enjoy!!

[flushingflash]

Thanks Giovanni. Any lodging suggestions in Montalicino?

[giovanni]

Any lodging suggestions in Montalicino?

Have never stayed overnight there, so I don't have a broad knowledge of all your options. I do know, however, that one of the nearby restaurants I recommended --- Osteria del Vecchio Castello --- has five or six rooms (very lovely) available by reservation to its customers. Depends whether you want to be right in town or spend a night or two in the midst of the vineyards.

[RRainey]

Maltalcino is great. I would recommend searching for an Agriturismo,a farm that rents rooms.
in Alba we stayed at the villa Meridiana.One alternative that is quite nice is colle lungo between Florence and Siena www.collelungo.com RR

[ann]

Here is a list of restaurants in the area you're interested in by the owner of a very reputable company which handles vacation rentals: http://www.tuscanhou...antsinsiena.htm. To it I would add Grappolo Blu, which we enjoyed very much last month. Take a look at Palazzina Cesira for a place to stay - http://www.montalcin...home_cesira.htm - lovely and reasonable.

[ann]

Here is a review of Palazzina Cesira - http://www.slowtrav....gion=Montalcino.

[Craig Camp]

As lovely as Montalcino is, for a 3 or 4 day wine experience I would recommend Siena or an agriturismo outside of Siena as a base for a first time visit. Montalcino is easily covered in a day in a day unless you want an in-depth education about Brunello. At Siena you are on the doorstep of the Chianti Classico zone and there are many wineries to visit and zones to see - Greve, Radda, Castellina etc. I would be happy to recommend some good wineries. Remember appointments at wineries are a must there are not walk-in tasting rooms like in Napa.

You will find a long discussion about Cortona HERE so you can make up your own mind.

I also encourage you to use our "search" tool as there are many threads on Toscana.

[futronic]

I will likely be spending the time in Tuscany in Montalcino with a day-trip north to Siena and Chianti Classico. Considering I met several people that represent Fuligni, Poggio Antico, Costanti, and Antinori's Pian delle Vigne property at a Brunello dinner in the spring, I'm looking forward to seeing them again and tour their facilities.

[cak]

I'd highly recommend the Vecchia Oliviera in Montalcino for lodging. It was very pleasant, an old olive oil 'barn' and very friendly owners.

[futronic]

Thank you for your recommendation. The hotel looks lovely, but I'm looking for an agriturismo-style apartimenti with kitchen facilities.

[Jim Foster]

Try La Pievina, a simple trattoria on the very pretty road between Asciano and Siena, for an experience that's like having a celebratory dinner at an Italian home. When you come in, the only decision you're asked to make is "carne, pesce o vegetariano?" Once you decide, the women in the kitchen, who drink wine as they cook and get louder as the night progresses, get to work.

Over the course of the next several hours, this is what you get: 10 antipasti courses; five primi, usually pasta; and three main courses. Then they drop a selection of about six desserts on your table. And finally, they bring a variety of grappas and vin santos, which you can sample at your leisure.

The courses are smallish, so don't let the big numbers intimidate you. Also, they're spaced out over the entire eventing. Also in included in the very reasonable price is wine, water and coffee.

Don't expect anything fancy, because it's not. What you get, though, is a lot of fun for the money.

[RRainey]

Have you looked at colle lungo yet?
http://www.collelungo.com/ It looks great Rr

[menton1]

I would agree that San Gimignano is a tourist trap. Although I would not recommend staying there, you shouldn't miss it. Especially for a first time visitor to Tuscany, it's a must see --- an unusual medieval hilltown, with towers that have made it known as the "Manhattan" of Tuscany. Make a day trip there for a few hours.

Actually, I respectfully disagree with this advice. Saying SanG is a tourist trap is like saying Venice is a tourist trap. Avoid the TT shops and bus tours and see the actual things that attract tourists there. The town is actually much better if you stay overnight, because the tourists leave at 4:30 and by 5:00 you have the town to yourself! You also have the better part of the morning to enjoy up until the buses arrive at 10:30...The restaurants open for dinner really cater more to locals and not day-trippers, so you can have wonderful meals there, as we have had-- and the view from the rooms at La Cisterna Hotel is breathtaking. SanG is a great place to stay overnight, and is centrally located for the rest of Tuscany!

[flushingflash]

With only 5 days and 4 nights in Tuscany )after we visit Florence...), we are findinf it hard to decide where to stay and for how long. Right now, it looks like we'll do 2 nights in Siena (still picking a place to stay and restaurants- thanks for all of you ideas folks!!), and then 2 nights in either Montalcino, San G, Lucca.....????

help us decide!

[menton1]

With only 5 days and 4 nights in Tuscany )after we visit Florence...), we are findinf it hard to decide where to stay and for how long. Right now, it looks like we'll do 2 nights in Siena (still picking a place to stay and restaurants- thanks for all of you ideas folks!!), and then 2 nights in either Montalcino, San G, Lucca.....????

help us decide!

As you can see, there is a bit of disagreement on this thread... So I don't know how much more help you can get;

Have you checked the Hotel La Cisterna link I posted on an earlier response here?

Restaurants in San Gimignano:
La Vecchia Mura, simple family resto right under the walls.

Il Pino, great Cingiale, more upscale

Ristorante Peruca, in an old palazzo, wonderful!

Al Beppone, casual, pizza and pasta, quiet part of town.

After dinner, a great gelato parlor on the main square (La Cisterna) open until midnight.

P.S. The local wine Vernaccia, is a superb white-- do not miss it!

Buon viaggio!!

Edited by menton1, 20 November 2003 - 04:35 PM.

[ann]

San Quirico d'Orcia would be a great choice for a couple for nights, and it has a lovely small hotel - Palazzo del Capitano. San Quirico is beautiful in its own right, and is located between Montalcino and Montepulciano so its location is superb.

Edited by ann, 25 November 2003 - 12:55 PM.

[flushingflash]

Have you looked at colle lungo yet?
  [URL=http://www.collelungo.com/]

It looks great  Rr

RR- Thanks for the suggestion on Colle Luongo. Looks like it's going to be one of the places that we will be staying at. Our trip is shaping up (man do i need a vacation...). Thanks for your ideas!

-Steven

[Kevin72]

November brings one of my favorite regions, Tuscany. It’s another robust, straightforward style of cooking that fits perfectly this time of year. All those soups, bruschette, and roasted or grilled meats fill the house with so many comforting aromas. As I’ve said before, it’s the cooking style I often default to when cooking spontaneously with what’s available.

Judging by the bewildering number of books (156) pulled up on an Amazon booksearch, I’m not the only one who enjoys this cuisine! Where to even start? Hell, there’s three books on Tuscany just published this year! Needless to say, I won’t go through the effort of sifting through and replicating such a list here, but I’ll give highlights of what I have:

Pino Luongo has written a number of books on growing up in Tuscany. I have A Tuscan In the Kitchen and enjoy it immensely, but all of the other books of his I’ve looked at have appeal as well. As with many cookbooks I enjoy, he gives stories and histories at the start of his recipes, including an eye-opening account as a child of seeing a mushroom forager getting bit by a poisonous snake. Without hesitation, the forager grabbed an axe and lopped off the fingers he was bitten on to prevent the poison from spreading! Another amusing trait is that he, in true Italian form, doesn’t give precise amounts: he merely lists the ingredients and lets the cook decide what proportions to add to make it taste right.

Then there’s the Frances Mayes “Tuscan Sun” publishing empire and numerous other similar books, including a recent one by Marlena de Blasi (A Thousand Days in Tuscany).

One interesting book I have that I forgot to plug for Umbria as well is Italian Food Artisans by Pamela Sheldon Johns. While she does go to many different regions of Italy in her survey of people still making products “the old way”, she does primarily stick to the center and covers Tuscany, Umbria, and Emilia-Romagna quite well and offers several unique and appealing recipes.

Likewise, where to even begin with famous dishes?

Well, there’s La Fiorentina, the massive, steak-lover’s fantasy of a porterhouse, cut at least as thick as thick as your hand, grilled slowly and served al sangue.

We’ve discussed ribollata at length on the Italian Soups thread already, but I intend to make it soon. There’s a number of other famous Tuscan soups to try out as well. I’ve said it before, but Tuscans seems almost to be more inclined to have a soup as a primo than pasta, and several cookbook authors I’ve read have echoed that sentiment. Nevertheless, I do enjoy their recipes for papardelle with some sort of game.

A pot of cannellini beans, cooked with sage, a chili pepper, and a head of garlic would be a good start and can be then used in soups or as a contorno. Likewise, there’s the (in)famous saltless bread here, thought to be a good, neutral compliment to their robust salume.

This should be a fun month! Looking forward to it.