168 replies to this topic

[Jaymes]

If staying in DF for a few days, we usually plan out a longer distance trip in the city. We accomplish this by hiring a car and driver - usually through the hotel. It's brilliant and very affordable,

Yes, that's what I usually do as well. Nice not to worry about where the next cab is coming from, or when, and the driver can collect and safeguard your packages if you're shopping.

[memesuze]

never having been in DF before, and very few "fine dining" meals under my belt in any city, I'd still repeat our recent meal at Izote in a heartbeat - wonderful food, terrific presentation, and entrees in the 16-22 USD range

[Jaymes]

While certainly not exhaustive, my thread of my trip has some MC dining with photos.

Can't believe I hadn't noticed that thread before, but went there today. Absolutely wonderful read. You are to be thanked profusely, and congratulated endlessly.

So, thanks and congratulations.

Well done.

[AzianBrewer]

Thanks for all the advices...By the way, what's DF??

[Jaymes]

Thanks for all the advices...By the way, what's DF??

Mexico City is the capital of the nation. Drawn around it is a federal district. It's like Washington DC. So the official name is Mexico Distrito Federal. In the US we often refer to "DC. In a similar manner, Mexicans routinely refer to their capital as "DF."

Although, if you're actually in Mexico, and people refer to just "Mexico," that's also Mexico City.

Edited by Jaymes, 06 June 2006 - 09:08 PM.

[Ruth in Condechi]

You've chosen a great time of the year to visit the Distrito Federal, the weather is perfect, cool in the morning, hot after noon and back to cool for early evening. In fact bring a light sweater if you expect to be out after 7 or 8 PM when it does turn chilly. As to the cab ride from the airport, you have to purchase a ticket for cabs inside the terminal and a ride from there to Condesa (my nabe --more commonly referred to as Condechi ) might cost between $150 Pesos (1bag and a 4 door sedan) to $300 P for 2 to 4 bags and a van. DO NOT pay for anything bigger than a 4 door if you don't need it. The ride can vary depending on the arrival hour, anything between 7 AM and 9PM can be a horror and last an hour or more. The cab ride between 10 PM and 6AM is usually about 15 to 20 minutes! Its a BIG city and traffic jams anywhere are not uncommon. But if you are actually staying in Condesa think of the West Village deserted with 2 beautiful parks and incomparable dining ever other step. My own recommendations for this area are (1) Ticoncito for tacos al pastor (2) El Bajio,just opened after 35 years a second spot, in Parque Delta on Ave. Cuahetemoc (3) El Raco on Ave. Sonora (across from Parque Mexico), catalan style, for their salt baked huachinango (4) La Botica, Campeche 396, for Mezcal tastings (5) Frutos Prohibidos, Amsterdam 244 for help with the hang over in the form of great fresh juice combinations and finally (6) for a great view and relaxed snacking the roof top terrace of the Condesa DF hotel on Ave. Veracruz a stones throw from Praque Espana. There is so MUCH more in the rest of the city aka. Jardin del Pulpo in Coyacan on the corner of the public market, Fonda San Angel on the Plaza Jacinto ( Saturday artesanias market), El Tajin also in Coyacan for breakfast and lunch ( owner Alicia D'Angeli was foremost in the proposal to UNESCO to designate Mexican cuisine Patrimonio Oral y Intangible). I'd better end now but if you want more -- just let me know!

[nickarte]

Good tips Ruth; I didn´t know about the second Bajio! Now here´s a tip for you: arriving at the airport, if you walk to the escalators located between "sala C" and "sala D", go up, cross the bridge, and go down on your left, there is a taxi sitio, used by airport employees and those in the know. These are metered cabs and a trip to La Condesa, also my neighborhood, costs around 80-90 pesos! So it is not necesary to take those overpriced ticket taxis.

[Ruth in Condechi]

Good tips Ruth; I didn´t know about the second Bajio! Now here´s a tip for you: arriving at the airport, if you walk to the escalators located between "sala C" and "sala D", go up, cross the bridge, and go down on your left, there is a taxi sitio, used by airport employees and those in the know. These are metered cabs and a trip to La Condesa, also my neighborhood, costs around 80-90 pesos! So it is not necesary to take those overpriced ticket taxis.

nickarte: FYI -- Slow Food DF convivium is sponsoring a "Xoconostle mi Amor" day trip to the ex-hacienda San Jose del Marques in Hidalgo on Saturday July 29. Cost for SF members is $250P and $60P for transportation, non-members $300P. For more information call or e-mail Giorgio D'Angeli at El Tajin # 5659-5759/ 58124292 or giorgio@avantel.net.
Laboratorio n. 52
Xoconostle mi amor
Muchos ignoran las virtudes culinarias del xoconostle.
Es dulce, ágrio, versátil, delicioso, sorprendente.
Está conquistando grandes mercados en el mundo.
Te invitamos a conocerlo de cerca el sábado 29 de julio
en la ex-hacienda San José del Marques en Hidalgo.
El menú de esta fiesta campirana incluye:

Curados de pulque y Enchiladas de la Hacienda
Ensalada de jícama, lechuga de Ixmiquilpan, zanahorias
y xoconoxtle con vinagreta de miel de xoconostle
Mixiote de cordero de Hidalgo
Barbacoa de hoyo de Hidalgo
Salsa de molcajete con Xoconostle y Salsa borracha al pulque
Tortillas de maíz criollo hechas a mano
Bombín de Xoconostle con helado de coco orgánico
(receta de Alicia Gironella De Angeli)
Dulces de xoconostle de la Hacienda
Agua de Xoconostle
Cerveza.

Saldremos a las 10.30 a. m. en camión de lujo desde el Auditorio Nacional, regresando por la tarde alrededor de las 6 p.m.

Costo: Socios de SF y un acompañante: $250 c/u.

[Jaymes]

Good tips Ruth; I didn´t know about the second Bajio! Now here´s a tip for you: arriving at the airport, if you walk to the escalators located between "sala C" and "sala D", go up, cross the bridge, and go down on your left, there is a taxi sitio, used by airport employees and those in the know. These are metered cabs and a trip to La Condesa, also my neighborhood, costs around 80-90 pesos! So it is not necesary to take those overpriced ticket taxis.

Now THERE's a great tip! Do they also have vans there for larger parties? (I mean, um, you know, 'larger parties' meaning 'more people'?)

[Ruth in Condechi]

taxis.[/quote]

Now THERE's a great tip! Do they also have vans there for larger parties? (I mean, um, you know, 'larger parties' meaning 'more people'?)

[/quote]

This is a once only trip -- the autobus is for 40 people and there is still room for 20 or so as far as I know. Do call Giorgio at the numbers included in previous message. The couple who operate the hacienda are opening their operation to us (Slow Food) for one day only and we will have a tour and information on their production. Xoconostle is a cactus and they are producing honey,jellies and candied fruit from it.
FYI: check out the last Slow Food Laboratorio del Gusto here in DF at http:// international-iacp.blogspot.com

Edited by Ruth in Condechi, 21 July 2006 - 02:06 PM.

[nickarte]

Tried to do this but nobody returned my email or call; asi es México....

[Ruth in Condechi]

So sorry that you had such bad luck on this. The trip was "absolutely fabulous". When I learn how to post pics I will!

[docsconz]

So sorry that you had such bad luck on this. The trip was "absolutely fabulous". When I learn how to post pics I will!

I would love to see them. My pulque hacienda trip and luncheon back in March was the highlight of an already incredible trip.

[nickarte]

So sorry that you had such bad luck on this. The trip was "absolutely fabulous". When I learn how to post pics I will!

Please let me/us know if there are any more of these trips...as you know from living here, it's hard to get information about anything! I have YET to figure out how to get opera tickets on the day they go on sale...

[Ruth in Condechi]

Do start buying El Universal on Thursday morning early because they have augmented the Friday "Estilos" section with a magazine section called Menu! It has a calendar of events, recipes and interviews with the foremost culinary luminaries of the DF. It is trying to provide an all inclusive view of all things FOOD.

As for the Slow Food programs there might not be another until October. I will post as soon as I know and hope you can join us next time. I will personally get you the tickets. Slow Food is in need of of an infusion of "new blood" here and hopefully you would enjoy yourself so much you might want to join.

Let me say that the food is incredible every time I have been to an event and that the initiated are quick to respond. I will be posting a story on the Xoconostle trip on www.international-iacp.blogspot.com during the next week but the report on the Dia de las Ciruelas is still on the site. It is at the bottom of the page. It might make "la boca agua" as they say but go ahead risk it.

As well, don't know if you've heard but Chef Richard (Ricardo) Sandoval is coming back home to the DF. With Maya and Pompano restaurants in NYC , Zengo and Tamayo in DC and Denver he is about to open right here in my backyard of Condesa! Sometime in mid-September will be the grand opening of Hippodromo Hotel and Hip Kitchen on Ave. Mexico just north of Ave. Sonora.

More later!

[nickarte]

Do start buying El Universal on Thursday morning early because they have augmented the Friday "Estilos" section with a magazine section called Menu! It has a calendar of events, recipes and interviews with the foremost culinary luminaries of  the DF.  It is trying to provide an all inclusive view of all things FOOD.

As for the Slow Food programs there might not be another until October. I will post as soon as I know and hope you can join us next time. I will personally get you  the tickets. Slow Food is in need of  of an infusion of "new blood" here and hopefully you would enjoy yourself so much you might want to join.

Let me say that the food is incredible every time I have been to an event and that the initiated are quick to respond. I will be posting a story on the Xoconostle trip on www.international-iacp.blogspot.com during the next week but the report on the Dia de las Ciruelas is still on the site.  It is at the bottom of the page. It might make "la boca agua" as they say but go ahead risk it.

As well, don't know if you've heard but Chef  Richard (Ricardo) Sandoval is coming back home to the DF. With Maya and Pompano restaurants in NYC , Zengo and Tamayo in DC and Denver  he is about to open right here in my backyard of Condesa!  Sometime in mid-September will be the grand opening of Hippodromo Hotel and Hip Kitchen on Ave. Mexico just north of Ave. Sonora.

More later!

Thanks Ruth..."fast blood" for the Slow Foodies! I'll be there! I live around the corner from the new hotel, and have been watching the progress of the restoration (for those not from the city, the hotel to which Ruth referes is in an Art Deco apartment house which has been beautifully restored). Can't wait for the opening of the restaurant!

[Liz Johnson]

Hippodromo Hotel and Hip Kitchen on Ave. Mexico just north of Ave. Sonora.

Hi Ruth and Nickarte -
I'm planning a trip for November and was thinking of staying in the Condesa. I'm having trouble finding hotels — in fact this is the first I've heard of the Hippodrome.

Would you recommend the Condesa for tourists?
Can you make any hotel recommendations? The Condesa DF is a little out of my price range.

Thank you so much.
Liz

[nickarte]

Hippodromo Hotel and Hip Kitchen on Ave. Mexico just north of Ave. Sonora.

Hi Ruth and Nickarte -
I'm planning a trip for November and was thinking of staying in the Condesa. I'm having trouble finding hotels — in fact this is the first I've heard of the Hippodrome.

Would you recommend the Condesa for tourists?
Can you make any hotel recommendations? The Condesa DF is a little out of my price range.

Thank you so much.
Liz

Hi Liz - Condesa is a great place for tourists to stay as it is quiet and pretty, convenient to everywhere, lots of places to walk around. I can reccomend the Hotel Roosevelt, located on Insurgentes and Yucatan, a few blocks from Parque Mexico.
Insurgentes Sur No. 287, esquina Yucatan
Hipodromo Condesa
06100 Ciudad de Mexico, Distrito Federal
Ph: +52 (55) 5208-6813 5208-3606
www.hotelroosevelt.com.mx
Just make sure you ask for a room on the quiet side...

I personally, have a small apartment I rent out, but it won't be available when you are here; for the future, the website is www.huichapan.dreamhosters.com.

The rooms are fine, I think a double is about $45 USD.

[Ruth in Condechi]

What a great studio apartment in Condesa! Have already forwarded this to a few friends for consideration.
As to other options the hotel Maria Cristina on Rio Lerma ( check out yahoo travel) has been Marilyn Tausends ( Culinary Adventures) place to stay for years. The rates are from $50 to $100. Rio Lerma runs parralel to Reforma on the north and if you want to do the museums its all walking distance for the most part. Another try is www.hostelsweb.com that lists a $17 rate for a private room, located on Durango and Tonala it might be an option. I do not know it personally, but will take a look just for my own info.

Hippodromo Hotel will be a LUXURY boutique hotel ( with prices to match) check out the www.modernmexican.com site though because the restaurant should be a WOW.

Have a great trip and do keep asking questions, better prepared is the way to be in our megalopolis.

[nickarte]

What a great studio apartment in Condesa! Have already forwarded this to a few friends for consideration.
As to other options the hotel Maria Cristina on Rio Lerma ( check out yahoo travel) has been Marilyn Tausends ( Culinary Adventures) place to stay for years. The rates are from $50 to $100. Rio Lerma runs parralel to Reforma on the north and if you want to do the museums its all walking distance for the most part. Another try is www.hostelsweb.com that lists a $17 rate for a private room, located on Durango and Tonala it might be an option. I do not know it personally, but will take a look just for my own info.

Hippodromo Hotel will be a LUXURY boutique hotel ( with prices to match)  check out the www.modernmexican.com site though because the restaurant should be a WOW.

Have a great trip and do keep asking questions, better prepared is the way to be in our megalopolis.

I looked at the website but it doesn't mention the restaurant opening here; has anyone tried his places? I never heard of the one in New York (the only US city I frequent (and not so often anymore at that). The jury will be OUT until it opens and we have BEEN! But I sure hope it's good, because as Ruth will agree, we need more good restaurants that cater to grown-ups and that aren't in "Mexico denial" here in the Condesa...We Condechis don't like going to Polanco anymore than old-time Greenwich Villagers balked at traveling to the upper-east-side...

[Ruth in Condechi]

Nick, Sandoval has been rated highly by the NY Times (**) and people I know who have been to Pompano rave about , what else, his seafood preparations. I haven't been and am waiting anxiously to see what they do here. The opening is set for Sept.8-9? They 've been announcing the opening since April though .... The web site for them mentions the opening under Sandovls bio, perhaps because this is his baby ( you know kid makes good in BIG CITY and now comes home to gloat).

And mil gracias for the loan of Mercado San Juan, will return it today. Where did you get it, I do want my own copy. Talk to soon.

[Sneakeater]

Maya used to be very good but has slipped a lot over the last few years.

Pampano was very good when it opened; haven't been since.

I'll be curious to see what people in Mexico City think of Sandoval's cooking. I always thought it was sort of "great [Mexican] for New York", but not "great absolute." I personally don't think that Maya at its best was a patch on, say, Aguila y Sol -- although I admit my perceptions may be colored by the two restaurants' respective locations.

Edited by Sneakeater, 27 August 2006 - 02:40 PM.

[Ruth in Condechi]

Maya used to be very good but has slipped a lot over the last few years.

Pampano was very good when it opened; haven't been since.

I'll be curious to see what people in Mexico City think of Sandoval's cooking.  I always thought it was sort of "great [Mexican] for New York", but not "great absolute."  I personally don't think that Maya at its best was a patch on, say, Aguila y Sol -- although I admit my perceptions may be colored by the two restaurants' respective locations.

Dear Sneakeater,

thank you for your comments. Please (since I am assuming you are still in NYC) give us more on Sandoval and his restaurants. Although I haven't been to Aguila y Sol I absolutely love Enrique Olvera at Pujol restaurant -- I believe that the young and innovative chefs of Mexico City are doing world class cuisine based on their "raices" (thats roots to you). I have already gained about 12 Lbs. in the year I have been in Condesa and its challenging to NOT GO OUT to eat every day!

PS: Chef Olvera has been scheduled as a guest on NBC Today show for Sept.15 "El Grito"/Mexican Independence day. Try and catch him and give us a report . His food is wonderful check out his menu at www.pujol.com.mx.

[docsconz]

PS: Chef Olvera has been scheduled as a guest on NBC Today show for Sept.15 "El Grito"/Mexican Independence day. Try and catch him and give us a report . His food is wonderful check out his menu at www.pujol.com.mx.

I very much enjoyed my meal at Pujol. I will have to remember to try and record it. Thanks for the heads up!

[Sneakeater]

This is going to be much more general than what Ruth probably meant to ask for; if I can put together some more specific comments about the food at Richard Sandoval's restaurants in New York, I'll do so -- but it's been a while since I've eaten in any of them.

Mexican food is very problematical in New York. Until fairly recently, there didn't seem to be as significant a Mexican population here as there is in, say, Chicago, to say nothing of LA. Even now, the Mexican population (or at least that part of it that operates and patronizes restaurants) seems to mostly be from Puebla, so most of the "authentic" Mexican restaurants are limited to that region. It's not that I don't love Pueblan food -- I do -- it's just that I don't think you can easily get a broad familiarity with authentic Mexican cooking in New York.

On the other hand, there have long been a bunch of imitation Tex-Mex tequila mills in New York, to which young people go to get drunk and eat gloppy food. But they have few culinary pretentions -- although the glop they serve is probably what most non-Mexican New Yorkers think of "Mexican food" as.

Since there isn't a long-time tradition of high-quality "authentic" ethnic Mexican restaurants (and to be clear, by that I mean cheap places, mainly aimed at the immigrant community), most non-Mexican New Yorkers lack the kind of deep familiarity with Mexican food that they have with, say, Chinese and other Asian cuisines or Italian or even Cuban. This makes it difficult for us to appreciate, much less to judge, any attempts at Mexican haute cuisine in the City.

Several restaurants have tried. When Richard Sandoval -- an Acapulcan who first attracted notice when cooking at a non-Mexican restaurant here -- opened Maya maybe 10 or so years ago, it was far and away the best such attempt yet in New York. Over time, Maya has gotten a little tired, though, as some restaurants do. Sandoval's second restaurant here was Pampano, a so-called haute Acapulcan sea food place backed by Placido Domingo in a space where a previous Domingo-backed attempt at haute Mexican had failed. If anything, Pampano, at opening, was even better than Maya when it was new -- although, again, neither I nor most of the clientele have the culinary experience to really judge what Sandoval is doing there. I haven't been back recently, so I don't know how well the quality's been maintained.

The thing to say, though, is that the best haute Mexican -- nueva cocina, I guess you guys call it -- in Mexico City pretty much blows Maya and Pampano away. But a large part of the reason for that, it has seemed to me, is the confidence with which the DF restaurants grow from (and play with) tradition. This kind of confidence is precisely what Sandoval is denied here in New York -- not because of anything lacking on his part, but because he cannot assume a knowledgeable clientele (in fact, he can pretty much assume the contrary). He has to worry about toning down elements New Yorkers unfamiliar with Mexican food might find weird, he has to work on the assumption that most of his clientele's expectations of Mexican food are of gloppy versions of dishes like enchiladas suissas, and so his food has to sort of explain itself to the eaters (if you know what I mean by that). So Mexico City is going to be a truer test of Sandoval's capabilities than New York, because there he'll be cooking without restraint for a knowledgeable clientele.

You know, now that I think of it, I really can't wait to try his restaurant there.

Edited by Sneakeater, 28 August 2006 - 03:21 PM.

[kalypso]

Sneakeater, what a great, cogent post!! Your argments makes a heck of a lot of sense.

I have been blown away by the contemporary Mexican in D.F. It's some of the most exciting, not to metion creative, food I've eaten in a long time. I hope Sandoval can do the food he wants, the way he wants, without having to capitulate.

I believe he also had a branch of Maya in San Francisco when I lived there that, like you described in your post, also opened strongly and then faded some as it settled in. I'm not sure it's still open.

[Sneakeater]

Just to be clear, I don't want to say that Sandoval's "captiluated" to anyone, in the sense that I don't think anyone is forcing anything on him. I just think he must be aware of his audience, and of their expected incomprehension of the food he is cooking. And that that must affect what he ultimately does.

(Thanks for the kind words, BTW.)

[Sneakeater]

This is a little off-topic, but just to give a concrete example of what I'm talking about (even though it doesn't involve Richard Sandoval):

Last year, Zarela Martinez's son, Aaron Sanchez, opened a haute(ish) Mexican restaurant called Centrico in downtown New York. One of the items on his menu is a pretty strictly traditional Cochinita Pibil. When the restaurant was reviewed in the New York Times, the restaurant critic, Frank Bruni, described that dish (without even naming it) by writing that "Sanchez takes a pork shoulder" and does this and that to it -- as if this classic Yucatecan dish were something that Aaron Sanchez came up with himself.

That's the level of knowledge about Mexican food that the most influential (although, most New Yorkers would agree, not the best credentialed) food critic in New York has.

I think a chef must be able to create with more confidence when he's cooking for a clientele he can assume has knowlege of the premises of his cooking. I also think it must be a bit of a burden when the chef knows he must educate his clientele along with pleasing it.

Edited by Sneakeater, 28 August 2006 - 03:00 PM.

[docsconz]

Sneakeater, i think you hit one of the main problems of Mexican Food not just in NYC, but in most of the US on the head. One other issue that shouldn't be a problem in the DF is the quality of strictly Mexican ingredients. They may be available in NY, but not at the same level of quality as in Mexico. Sandoval may or may not do a great job at his restaurant in Mexico City, but it is more likely that he will there for all the above reasons. Nice summary, Sneakeater!

[Sneakeater]

Thanks!