142 replies to this topic

[kiliki]

C. Sapidus-What a great remodel. Beautiful and just the right size, I think. I love the wall of cabinets/buffet at the end of the room.

[/QUOTE]I would have fought to the death for an island over a banquette. [QUOTE]

A banquette was the thing I wanted most when we remodeled last year. Neither the mr. or I really like islands, so that wasn't the issue, but our remodeler was somewhat skeptical that we would ultimately be happy with our choice. Are you SURE you wouldn't rather have an island, he kept saying. But I LOVE the corner banquette and have no regrets.

Edited by kiliki, 24 August 2006 - 09:36 AM.

[Dave Hatfield]

we would like to make the cabinets taller/countertops higher. Can this be done using stock cabinets?

As previously noted you can add wood on the top or on the bottom. IKEA sell a couple of different height feet as well as some that are adjustable.

is the only problem with the 30 in. accessing the upper shelves?

Yes & if you're tall it isn't much of an issue. The extra depth is worth it.

Is it better to get the countertops wider thus reducing floor space?

Personal opinion; I'd go for the counter space.

I doubt we will buy a built-in refrigerator as the reduced interior depth is problematic.

See our kitchen further up the post. The fridge is full depth so the doors stick out. We found this an acceptable conprimise. Its worth thinking about.

[VanessaBerman]

Ugh... I'm just about to start the renovations on my kitchen... it's a nightmare, I hate it.

One of these days I will have a kitchen I can cook in but in the meantime each decision is driving me crazy - there seem to be knock-on implications for everything we do... And our budget is stretched to its absolute max.

I'll post pix when it's done, ie when the builders manage to fit in a huge, spacious, well-equipped kitchen into my tiny house. Because they can do that kind of magic.

Work is scheduled to start Monday week, and should be done 4 weeks after that.

Everybody cross your fingers for us!

[VanessaBerman]

Is it better to get the countertops wider thus reducing floor space?

The only problem with going for deeper/wider countertops is that often you will have to pay over the odds for a non-standard size...

[ermintrude]

Top tip when buying a kitchen but your apliances over the internet (and if needed from many stores) doing this I managed to buty things for 1/2 to a 1/3rd of the price the kitchen people or high street retailers were charging.

E.g. Bought my induction hob for £550 they wanted £1400, Fridge £800 they wanted £2400 etc.

The only this was to order well in advance (and check anticipated delivery) to ensure it's all there for the fitters. And pay by credit card in case there are any problems you can get your £££ back.

[ermintrude]

Top tip when buying a kitchen but your apliances over the internet (and if needed from many stores) doing this I managed to buty things for 1/2 to a 1/3rd of the price the kitchen people or high street retailers were charging.

E.g. Bought my induction hob for £550 they wanted £1400, Fridge £800 they wanted £2400 etc.

The only this was to order well in advance (and check anticipated delivery) to ensure it's all there for the fitters. And pay by credit card in case there are any problems you can get your £££ back.

What I like best about the new kitchen are:-

Induction Hob

Oven http://www.aeg-elect...asp?ProdID=3021 - The steam, low temp and meat probe let you do all sorts of fun things.

Corian worksurface and splash back

[C. sapidus]

I wanted to include a link for the National Kitchen and Bath Association kitchen design guidelines (link). Excellent resource, highly recommended.

I doubt we will buy a built-in refrigerator as the reduced interior depth is problematic.

Yes, we boxed in a standard-depth refrigerator for this reason. If you do this, check the manufacturer’s requirements for clearance to ensure proper ventilation.

C. Sapidus-What a great remodel. Beautiful and just the right size, I think. I love the wall of cabinets/buffet at the end of the room.

Thank you! We couldn’t manage without the dining room cabinets. Eventually, my wife will make stained glass pieces to fit in tracks between the counter and upper cabinets.

Is it better to get the countertops wider thus reducing floor space?

The only problem with going for deeper/wider countertops is that often you will have to pay over the odds for a non-standard size...

We paid by the square foot for engineered stone countertops. A 30-inch deep countertop was 25% more expensive, but it provides 25% more work space compared with a 24-inch deep counter. One may pay a premium for non-standard sizes of different countertop materials, and of course pricing may be different in Ireland.

VanessaBest of luck with your kitchen renovation. And this too shall pass.

[Dave Hatfield]

Here comes my kitchen number 2. A real stunner this one. A word of advice; don’t let the ‘old’ look fool you. There are some very neat & up to date ideas in this kitchen. The look was chosen to suit the setting which is a real medieval chateau


Partial view as you enter the kitchen from outside.


A very rough drawing of the kitchen.

Background
This kitchen is part of a total chateau renovation which took over three years. M & R who did it are an international couple who have lived in quite a few countries. (She is a New Zealander & he is English) Thus, they had a lot of ideas picked up from numerous countries. Additionally, this was by no means their first kitchen.
The overall space is large, roughly 25’ by 20’ plus the pantry. The previous uses of the room varied over the years.

The ’Discussions’
Not extensive in this case as R was THE primary designer. M had his input, but deferred to the chief designer.


Eating area. This is to the Left of the previous picture. M couldn’t resist getting in the act!

Essential Elements
Here it was essential that the kitchen be in keeping with the location. This ruled out modern looks and dictated that as much as possible of the ‘modern’ appliances be concealed.
The kitchen had to work. Functionality would not be sacrificed for appearance. Even though there was lots of space available R wanted a kitchen that was comfortable to work in, one that didn’t require lots of moving from place to place while doing a meal. (I’ve cooked in this kitchen & can say that she succeeded)
R&M entertain frequently and do serious cooking so the kitchen is well set up for heavy duty use.

Limitations
The biggest limitation was light. It proved impossible to add another window as R&M would have liked. Otherwise there were no serious constraints.


The outside of the work area. Book shelves below & double aspect cupboards above.

Equipment
Everything is of excellent quality. 5 burner gas hob, regular oversized oven, a steam oven, concealed fridge (plus a big fridge in the walk in pantry), Espresso maker, Two dishwasher drawers and water softener/purifier.


Inside the work area showing the sink & worktops.



Cook top. There is counter space on both sides.


The oven side of the work space. Dual ovens, warming drawer, concealed fridge & espresso unit.


View into the walk in larder as yet unfinished

Cabinetry
All custom cabinets including dual access (i.e. from both sides) cabinets. Some of the drawer dividers & other interior hardware are from Hafele. The cabinet fronts are old used oak custom built by Bernard who is a local ebonist (cabinet maker).
The concept was to have the effect of antique cabinets which suited the chateau yet still have all of the modern features & convenience inside.


Worktops
The worktops are solid natural Puylagarde stone from a village nearby. This stone is used in many local houses so is very appropriate.

Flooring
The flooring is also natural stone from near Cahors. It was chosen for its color & durability.



How much of the Design did you do?
All of it.



How much of the construction did you do?
None of it.


The steam oven with warming drawer below.


The spice drawer!


Special horizontal storage.


Bottle storage using Hafele dividers.

How long was the kitchen supposed to take?
About 6 months.

How long did it actually take?
Roughly one year. It didn’t help that the cabinet maker injured himself & couldn’t work for a couple of months.


Dishwasher drawers. These came from New Zealand. Much neater than a regular dishwasher!


The totally hidden fridge.


Solid stone sink.


An amazing faucet in keeping with the sink.


% cost over/under?
The cabinetry was a bit under. Appliances were on plan.

How did your relationship survive?
No problems in our case as R did all of it.




Waiting for dinner!

As you can see this is a very special kitchen and shows what you can do given the space, imagination, experience and a fairly generous budget.

[scubadoo97]

Very cool Dave. Great kitchens from you and Bruce. Keep the pictures coming. Vanessa, can't wait to see your's when your done. It will be worth it. I love cooking in my kitchen now. Actually I loved cooking in the old one but now I can invite people over.

[Sarabeth]

So many great ideas here!

I have questions about flooring... ours has got to go. Not only is it aging vinyl (we inherited it when we bought the house), but is a horrible pattern with ridges that are nearly impossible to keep clean.

I've thought about tile, and I've heard good things about cork. For those of you who have renovated, how did you make your choice? For those of you about to renovate, in what direction are you heading?

Thanks for getting this started Dave!

[Dave Hatfield]

I have questions about flooring... ours has got to go.

My recommendation is tile. Hard wearing, easy to clean and can be pretty inexpensive. All kinds of colors available so you can match up to or compliment cabinets.

We had cork many years ago & were not happy. It was nice underfoot, but just didn't stand up to the wear in heavy traffic areas; like in from of the sink.

Keep the pictures coming.

I agree, the more the merrier.

I'll be posting my kitchen #3 tomorrow. This one's a real beauty that used to be the place where the cows were kept!

[scubadoo97]

I agree with Dave that tile is one of the best options in the kitchen IMO. We loved the look of hardwood, bamboo and even considered laminate flooring in the kitchen but a kitchen is a wet area. You really need a flooring that can handle getting wet without worry. We opted for tile because of all the benefits Dave mentioned. We used a large porcelain tile. Linoleum, not vinyl, is another option that is long lasting and can take the wear.

[Soupcon]

Does anyone have an opinion about/or has used linoleum.

I am at the beginning of a kitchen remodel that will take a few years as it will be done in stages. I presently have a wood floor in my kitchen and I hate it... it looks good admittedly but needs refinishing (sanding, restaining and 3-5 coats of urethane every 5 years or so) as well as daily cleaning. I don't think I want tile because it is hard on the feet but admittedly also looks good and is easy to clean (needs resealing I think periodically). Which leave me linoleum as I refuse to consider vinyl.

[scubadoo97]

Tile needs no sealing. It is advisable to seal the grout and if that is done correctly and that is the key word it should last 8-10 yrs before needing to be redone. You can also have tile cut with very sharp straight edges so it needs little grout. It really looks good this way. You avoid the running grout lines that may be visually unappealing

[VanessaBerman]

Thanks for all your good wishes, guys... I'll let you know the progress.

vx

[Abra]

I'll just add that we have Pergo on the kitchen floor. The kitchen had been remodeled shortly before we bought the house, so we weren't about to tear it out right away. Although I wouldn't have chosen it, the Pergo has held up perfectly for the past 5 years, no dings from stuff being dropped, no stains, no damage from lots of wet incidents. It looks more or less like wood, but behaves more like vinyl, and looks exactly as it did on the day we moved in.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

I'll just add that we have Pergo on the kitchen floor.  The kitchen had been remodeled shortly before we bought the house, so we weren't about to tear it out right away.  Although I wouldn't have chosen it, the Pergo has held up perfectly for the past 5 years, no dings from stuff being dropped, no stains, no damage from lots of wet incidents.  It looks more or less like wood, but behaves more like vinyl, and looks exactly as it did on the day we moved in.

My house in California had Pergo on the kitchen floors -- same deal, we inherited it when we bought the house. No one could tell the difference but me (no scratches!), and it sat well on the slab floor.
***

As most of you know, I'm in the final planning, pre-demolition stage for my own remodel/renovation. It's been a year in the planning, and today I signed the application for a variance for the outdoor portion of it.

I can't believe it's actually going to happen!

[Mano]

Great thread Dave!

I have a question about IKEA cabinets, which I had always dismissed as consistent with the average build quality of their other products. What makes them "second to none"?

I like the idea of saving money by using their cabinets but having the doors made elsewhere. Are the cabinets available sans doors so you don't have to go through the trouble of returning them?

[Dave Hatfield]

Great thread Dave!

I have a question about IKEA cabinets, which I had always dismissed as consistent with the average build quality of their other products.  What makes them "second to none"? 

I like the idea of saving money by using their cabinets but having the doors made elsewhere.  Are the cabinets available sans doors so you don't have to go through the trouble of returning them?

Mano - As you can see on a previous post the IKEA cabinetry is much admired. The design is good and the components are of excellent quality. Its due to their volume that they can bring the cost down. Yes, some of the side panels are compressed wood with melamine, but so are far more expensive units. When we did a no expense spared kitchen in California the side panels were still only plywood with veneer. Don't think they were really any better or would last longer than IKEA.

I'm pretty sure that you can buy the cabinets without doors. Hopefully somebody who has done this in the states can share their experience. Our problem was linguistic; we just were not confident enough of our French to try the more complicated ordering process. I strongly suspect that a knowledgeable sales person who speaks your language would have no problem placing the order.

Let's see if we can get some help from somebody else who's done this in the states.

[Sarabeth]

Tile or Pergo seem like clear winners.
Thanks for all the food for thought.. I'll let you know what we decide and how it goes.
S.

[Dave Hatfield]

Here we go! Kitchen #3 and we’re all going to be jealous; at least I know I am. Y & A only recently finished this absolutely beautiful kitchen/ dining room. It shows what can be done when the partners are in synch and have complementary talents.

Background
We all thought that Y & A’s old kitchen was pretty nice, but they wanted something better. The old kitchen was in the wrong place (that space is now a very nice room). It was also too small & narrow. The linear layout made it difficult for two people to cook at the same time. It had to go. Fortunately Y & A had a great potential kitchen space below the level of the old one. As an added bonus this space was large enough for the new kitchen PLUS a dining room. As you can see in the pictures below it needed a bit of work having formerly been where the cows were kept when this was still a farm.




Amazing. It took imagination to see this as a new kitchen.

The ‘Discussions’
Y & A were a real team when it came to this kitchen. They knew what they wanted in terms of equipment & functionality. Y did the design and A did the physical layout. The partnership worked very well and they’re very happy with the result.




Astounding. What a transformation.

Essential Elements
There were a number of elements that Y & A agreed were essential. Foremost, the kitchen had to work for two simultaneous cooks. This dictated an island layout which they both wanted anyway. A walk in pantry was essential. (There is a linguistic quirk here between pantry which is more American & larder which is more English. Larder, however, tends to only denote a place to store food. What Y & A have is something that does food, but also more.) Two sinks were another essential as were black granite work tops. Finally, they wanted the superb La Canche stove.








Four more detailed views of the kitchen area. What a great island!


Limitations
Other than the normal budgetary ones the only serious limitation was the need to hide lots of pipes & wiring on one wall. Space was not a problem – the kitchen/diner is 31’ x 16’ and the pantry/WC/laundry room is 16’ x 13’.

Equipment
A new large fridge & a freezer both in the pantry were added. A third combination oven/ microwave unit, integrated fridge and freezer and a dishwasher complete the equipment except for the stove. The stove as mentioned is a La Canche with a five-burner gas hob, gas & electric ovens. This is a wonderful piece of equipment that will last forever (and it’s pretty too!).




A very serious stove for very serious cooks.

Cabinetry
All of the cabinetry is from Schmidt. Although this sounds German the company is French (Alsace). The fronts are a pale cream color.

Worktop
Black Granite

Flooring
Under floor heating was installed to keep the walls clear. The flooring itself is a type of stone called “Bradstone”. Bradstone is a manufactured stone although you would never guess that by looking at it. It looks totally natural, but has the advantage of being sealed and impervious to stains. Bradstone comes in a variety of colors so Y & A were able to match it to the rest of the kitchen’s color scheme.


3rd oven/ microwave


Recycling center.


Only in France do you get purpose built storage for your Bagette & your mineral water.


Organised drawers


More drawerrs.

How much of the design did you do? 100%
How much of the construction did you do? 0%

How long was the kitchen supposed to take? About 3 months.
How long did it actually take? About 4 months.


Dining table. Seats 10-12 with the leaves in place.

Costs were on target. ( Note that in France you always get a ‘devis’ (quote) from the craftsmen before committing to the job. Unless there are major changes or big unexpected difficulties during the job the quoted price will be honored.)

Y & A’s relationship is intact post kitchen. In fact they’re happy as can be; a kitchen like this would make anybody smile.


Peppers & pans over the island.


We're watching you! Cook well!

Quite a kitchen & quite a project. You can clearly see the planning, thought & design that went into making this one of the best kitchens I've seen. A dream kitchen that Y & A can rightly be proud of.

I have two more kitchens to go. Let's see yours!

[Anna N]

I am speechless!

[Dave Hatfield]

I am speechless!

Don't believe it! You? Speachless! An oxymoron if there ever was one.

Nice kitchen though; isn't it?

[scubadoo97]

Amazing. It took imagination to see this as a new kitchen.

No question there. Great job, I love the overall look and the details.

Edited by scubadoo97, 29 August 2006 - 11:42 AM.

[MelissaH]

Great thread Dave!

I have a question about IKEA cabinets, which I had always dismissed as consistent with the average build quality of their other products.  What makes them "second to none"? 

I like the idea of saving money by using their cabinets but having the doors made elsewhere.  Are the cabinets available sans doors so you don't have to go through the trouble of returning them?

Mano - As you can see on a previous post the IKEA cabinetry is much admired. The design is good and the components are of excellent quality. Its due to their volume that they can bring the cost down. Yes, some of the side panels are compressed wood with melamine, but so are far more expensive units. When we did a no expense spared kitchen in California the side panels were still only plywood with veneer. Don't think they were really any better or would last longer than IKEA.

I'm pretty sure that you can buy the cabinets without doors. Hopefully somebody who has done this in the states can share their experience. Our problem was linguistic; we just were not confident enough of our French to try the more complicated ordering process. I strongly suspect that a knowledgeable sales person who speaks your language would have no problem placing the order.

Let's see if we can get some help from somebody else who's done this in the states.

When we redid our kitchen, we opted to go with IKEA cabinets (intact with doors, mostly).

The way it works here in the U. S. of A. if you do your ordering or order planning at a store:

First, you sit down at one of their computers with their kitchen planning software, and put in your kitchen. Then you look at the list of pieces/parts required for your kitchen, which the software generates.

This next part helps to have a second person: you take the list of cabinets, and transfer the numbers corresponding to each cabinet (or other part) and the quantities of each onto a form. The planning software doesn't collate same-parts, so the second person is very helpful as you go around the kitchen plan and make sure that everything you want is, in fact, on your list.

The people who work in the IKEA kitchen section should be able to help you plan for things like the appropriate numbers of legs, baseboards, and moldings, none of which is accounted for in the planning software. If you're doing IKEA countertops, don't forget those.

When you have the form filled out, you bring it to the counter. They put the cabinet numbers into their computer and give you a printout of a draft order. On the draft order, every cabinet is broken down into its component parts: sides, top, bottom, shelves, door, etc.

You then double-check the form against your initial list (and also against your planned kitchen) to be sure everything's there still. At this point, if there's a part you don't want, you can cross it off the draft list. We did this with turntable assemblies for corner cabinets, because my husband built ones that are better than IKEA's. We also eliminated a door from a base cabinet, where we chose to put the microwave.

Then they take your changes, print you a new draft order, and have you check the new draft. If everything's correct, you're ready to actually place the order. Since we don't live near an IKEA store, we took the copy of the draft with us, and faxed it to the national phone order center.

I don't know how it would work if you don't live close enough to plan your order at the store, but it all starts with the software (free download).

MelissaH

[lcdm]

Does anyone have an opinion about/or has used linoleum.

I am at the beginning of a kitchen remodel that will take a few years as it will be done in stages. I presently have a wood floor in my kitchen and I hate it... it looks good admittedly but needs refinishing (sanding, restaining and 3-5 coats of urethane every 5 years or so) as well as daily cleaning. I don't think I want tile because it is hard on the feet but admittedly also looks good and is easy to clean (needs resealing I think periodically). Which leave me linoleum as I refuse to consider vinyl.

We have linoleum and I could not be happier. I didn't want tile because as you said it's hard on the feet (and dropped glasses). Wood would have been OK but I would have obssesed about the scratches. So we got lino with a design around the border. Works for us (family of 5 and 1 dog/2 cats).

[fou de Bassan]

Oh my gracious! I go away for a little while and look what I miss, WOW! All the kitchens are envy-worthy but the La Canche stove just makes me drool!
Dave, I love the Mansard windows in your kitchen, they call to mind the doors in Alice in Wonderland.
We'll be moving in a couple of weeks and smacking in new appliances immediately. Finances will determine what happens after that.
Thanks for the photos everyone.

[kiliki]

My recommendation is tile.

Does anyone have an opinion about/or has used linoleum.

I've had tile and if you actually spend a lot of time on your feet in the kitchen, it is cold, hard and uncomfortable (though it does look nice). One solution of course is to use area rugs where you stand most often, but those get kind of gross with dropped food, and what's the point of having a nice tile floor if you put worn out, food stained rugs over it.

We installed Marmoleum-a brand of natural linoleum-and we LOVE it. LOVE LOVE LOVE. It's soft and warm, things don't usually break when we drop them, and it doesn't show dirt-at least our blue swirly pattern doesn't (you can go an embarassingly long time without mopping). It's also solid color throughout the tiles so if it gets scratched (dog nails or whatnot), the scratch doesn't show.

But, nothing is "best"-it's all about what you like most.

[Meredith380]

I'll just add that we have Pergo on the kitchen floor.  The kitchen had been remodeled shortly before we bought the house, so we weren't about to tear it out right away.  Although I wouldn't have chosen it, the Pergo has held up perfectly for the past 5 years, no dings from stuff being dropped, no stains, no damage from lots of wet incidents.  It looks more or less like wood, but behaves more like vinyl, and looks exactly as it did on the day we moved in.

My parents have had Pergo for about 10 years. It's been starting to warp the past two. It was fine for about the first 8 years.
My father's a business owner in a distributing corporation, namely building materials. He wasn't dissapointed in the initial investment of Pergo-- easy to clean (we had a dog), nice look, but for the long term, it doesn't hold up well. He got what he anticipated from it, and him and my mother are debating over tile versus hardwoods.

[Taboni]

Love the last kitchen. I am trying to swing a LaCanche Cluny for our upcoming kitchen remodel but there really is no way I am going to convince the wife to justify the price. Waaaaaa.