Q&A: How to Dine
#1
Posted 15 August 2006 - 08:46 AM
#2
Posted 15 August 2006 - 11:33 AM
Janet A. Zimmerman, aka "JAZ"
Manager
jzimmerman@eGullet.org
eG Ethics signatory
About.com guide, Cooking for Two
Ten ways you can help the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters
#3
Posted 15 August 2006 - 11:50 AM
Establishing a relationship with the bartender is also one of the quickest, surest ways to become a known customer. Bartenders tend to have elephantine memories, and you can be sure that if you make an impression on your first visit you'll be welcomed by name on your second.
Needless to say, this is doubly true at sushi bars, where the people sitting at the bar are being served by the actual chef. There's very rarely a good reason for sitting at a table when sitting at the sushi bar is a viable option.
I wouldn't worry about feeling uncomfortable dining alone at a table, though. Modern restaurants are hip to the fact that solo diners expect to be taken seriously. In the mid 1990s I heard tales of substandard treatment for solo diners, especially from women and minorities, but I rarely hear such complaints anymore. A lot of evolution has occurred in this area in just the past decade.
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#4
Posted 15 August 2006 - 11:59 AM
I personally prefer a table but I'll take the bar if I see that the establishment is busy. I don't think you're missing anything from not taking the table but it's often more quiet and a better bet to unwind especially if the day has gone to hell. My experience however has been that service at the table is better than that at the bar.
And always being nice to staff does pay off in the long run. If you're having a crappy one, let them know in advance.
#5
Posted 15 August 2006 - 12:06 PM
To the contrary, Janet: I think the bar is often the best place to sit in any restaurant that takes bar dining seriously. There are a few local restaurants where Ellen and I make a point of sitting at the bar even when tables are available and even when we're not having cocktails. A well-schooled bartender will know as much about the menu as anyone, and the bar at most any restaurant tends to be closely monitored by management. I mean, I wouldn't recommend the bar for a multi-hour, extended tasting menu -- the ergonomics of stools and counters just aren't right -- but for most anything else the bar is a great choice for two people or even three if you can grab a corner.
Establishing a relationship with the bartender is also one of the quickest, surest ways to become a known customer. Bartenders tend to have elephantine memories, and you can be sure that if you make an impression on your first visit you'll be welcomed by name on your second.
Needless to say, this is doubly true at sushi bars, where the people sitting at the bar are being served by the actual chef. There's very rarely a good reason for sitting at a table when sitting at the sushi bar is a viable option.
I wouldn't worry about feeling uncomfortable dining alone at a table, though. Modern restaurants are hip to the fact that solo diners expect to be taken seriously. In the mid 1990s I heard tales of substandard treatment for solo diners, especially from women and minorities, but I rarely hear such complaints anymore. A lot of evolution has occurred in this area in just the past decade.
Bar dining is something I love when visiting America which doesn't seem to exist in Australia. It's great for the solo diner, even for tasting menus and I've never felt that I've recieved substandard service.
#6
Posted 16 August 2006 - 06:38 AM
In many ways, having confidence is the most important thing about eating out for me. I have only recently got over the intimidation I used to feel in upscale restaurants. The first time I ate at a Michelin-starred establishment I was really quite nervous. Luckily, on that particular evening, the head waiter recognised (by our age if nothing else) that this was probably a new experience for us and immediately put us at our ease. He explained that our job was to relax and enjoy ourselves, to feel free to ask any questions we might have, and to look for advice wherever needed. It seemed so obvious really. They weren't there to test us. They weren't there to judge us for being inexperienced diners. Quite the opposite in fact, they were there to help us to enjoy our dinner. We took him at his word and had a fantastic time.
Because we were interested, asked about the food and wine, and didn't try to pretend we were anything other than what we were, we built up a rapport that made everything else easy. It wasn't a question of chatting to the staff at length, nobody was over-familiar (it was a French restaurant with mainly French waiters, after all), but there was give and take that meant everything just worked seamlessly. By the time we left, we almost felt like “regulars”… although due to the constraints of the wallet we are anything but.
As I've become more "experienced", the one aspect I think a lot of people stumble over is the interaction with the wine list and sommelier. It seems to me there is a feeling out there that asking the sommelier for advice betrays some sort of ignorance. As pointed out in the article, nothing could be further from the truth. The method you suggested is pretty much the way I go about ordering wine myself. Certainly, as my wine understanding grows, it's easier to explain what I'm looking for with confidence, and I’m quite happy to say no to suggestions as well as yes. Ultimately, the sommelier should know more about the wine list than anyone. Totally ignoring this expertise seems like folly to me. Of course, discussing wines with the sommelier and being genuinely interested also helps to build the rapport mentioned earlier. A little polite and friendly interaction can go a long way towards ensuring attentive service, since he or she is generally a pretty important person "on the floor".
However, one area where there’s definitely still room for improvement in my own dining experience is speaking up when something is unsatisfactory. I’m not so good at this (like most Irish people in restaurants, actually). Sometimes the intimidation is just too much. As unhappy as I was with the service at Paul Bocuse, I can’t imagine ever complaining in such a temple of gastronomy. I’ll have to work on that.
Thanks again for the enjoyable article. I may have to hunt out your book!
Si
#7
Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:01 AM
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#8
Posted 16 August 2006 - 10:16 AM
In one part of your class, Steven, you suggest asking the staff what they recommend:
One of the most basic lines of inquiry, which can lead to a highly productive dialogue, is asking servers what their favorite dishes are, and what dishes the chef considers specialties of the house.
A little later, you describe the practice of upselling:
These two practices create a quandary. In my experience, especially in less than top-tier restaurants, upselling (or whatever you'd call it) is often used to move items that are getting old, or are overstocked. Most likely as a result of the day's staff meeting, waitstaff are told to "push the snapper," or urged to sell the special -- "special" being defined as "something we need to get rid of in a hurry."A server should always ask if you want these things (at most restaurants it's a requirement of the job and servers will get in trouble if they don’t do it), but should never aggressively try to upsell you on anything. If that happens, just smile knowingly and say, "No, thank you."
How can you tell when this is happening? In other words, how can you ensure that a server will tell you what's really good, as opposed to what he's been told to tell you is really good?
Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory
Eat more chicken skin.
#9
Posted 16 August 2006 - 10:36 AM
The mission, then, is to get the server off script. There are a few ways to do this. Certainly, some servers are just too dense ever to go off script. But usually you can break through.
First, establishing that personal rapport early on creates a situation where the server starts working for you. Remember, servers in restaurants are basically independent contractors -- the restaurant is paying less than half of their fee and you (or, rather, customers in general) are paying more than half -- so once they sort out all their issues there's nothing to stop them from having loyalty to you. Once a server decides to take the act of serving you seriously, you'll often find that you get the inside line on stuff and that they sell the mandatory quota crap to the other tables.
Second, as I hinted above, the more specific your questions are the more likely you are to take the server off script. "What's good?" is not nearly as effective as "I have X, Y and Z preferences; what's good?"
Third, use your intuition and your ability to read people. You don't have to listen to everything a server says. Sometimes you're just not going to get good advice from the server. Good advice from the server is the preferred course of action, but there are several levels of backup available to you: you've already been online doing research about the restaurant before going (right?), you're good at reading menus and know basic stuff like "Don't order the steak at a fish restaurant" and "Don't order veal Marsala at the Greek diner," and you can tell if a server is feeding you a pack of lies.
And if all else fails, you can always get a slice of pizza afterwards.
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#10
Posted 16 August 2006 - 05:39 PM
I'm so ashamed!
I am able to scrape enough pennies together every once in a while to visit a seriously wonderful place. When I do, I want to be able to experience, as best I can, the full range of that restaurant's skills. And that means that I often do the two things that seem to me to drive some restauranteurs nuts: order lots of apps and split like crazy. Sometimes the servers are fine with it, but other times, you can just see them calculating the lost tips they expect. (We tip extremely well, so that's not the point.)
At a place like José Andrés's Zaytinya or a sushi joint, this is not an issue. But at other places structured around multi-course meals, well, sometimes I just I want to hide under my table!!
Tell me, please: should I cease and desist this practice and visit only when I can pay a full ride? Or is my shame unnecessary?
Sincerely,
Hungry in Providence
Manager, eG Forums.
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
I took my potatoes down to be mashed
Then I made it over to that million dollar bash
#11
Posted 16 August 2006 - 06:55 PM
In terms of the way servers react to such strategies, if they can't appreciate your creativity that's too bad for them. I talk a lot in my book and public presentations about getting on the good side of the waitstaff, but that's not the only way to enjoy a meal. Sometimes you need to be willing to push your agenda whether a server wants to cooperate or not. Of course good servers will never let their irritation show, but if a bad server gets irritated because you order a lot of appetizers and share then I think you should seize the day and have some fun with the situation.
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#12
Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:27 PM
I travel a lot for work and often dine alone. I really like to try the eG recommendations when I go to a new city. However, I do have a habit of always bringing along something to read.
I wouldn't say that I get rude service, but just rather perfunctory service.
Should I break this habit? It sounds like I am missing out on a lot of that bartender gossip and camaraderie, that you are all enjoying.
How badly are readers looked on by the wait staff?
#13
Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:33 PM
#14
Posted 16 August 2006 - 08:49 PM
I thought I might share a story which may be relevant. A while back, I was at a "two-hat" restaurant in Sydney located in one of the city's iconic landmarks. The hat system works like Michelin stars, with three at the top. This restaurant has since inexplicably gone on to win three hats.
Anyway, my table was being "served" by a waiter who quite clearly wins the "worst ever" award in my books. He seemed to spend lapses in service making unwelcome remarks and inappropriate gestures to my rather attractive friend while describing the oyster special that evening. He also spent some time performing the "pulling tea" trick with his water jug and a glass behind our backs, trying to project the image of a multi-talented Lothario, who somehow ended up waiting at tables instead of pursuing his true calling at the circus.
I ordered an oxtail starter, which was pretty bad. The meat had been picked off the bone, which I would rather not have done but I don't count it as a fault, but the meat, which you would expect to be gently chewy, gelatinous etc etc after many hours slow-cooking, had numerous hard corners and edges to it which made it unpalatable. Other members of my party tasted it and came to the same conclusion.
I asked the "waiter" in the politest possible way, not that he deserved the courtesy, to please remove the dish as it was poorly done. He does this, comes back and tells me "Chef XXX has tasted the dish and he sees nothing wrong with it. However, we will take it off the bill. I should let you know, sir, that we have had seventeen covers order the oxtail this evening and we have not had a single complaint except for yours."
At this point, I lose it. I have been eating good oxtail all my life and resent this bastard who questions my judgment. So I tell him "Well, obviously you have had seventeen covers who have never had good oxtail before." Chastened, he retreats to the kitchen, and service actually picks up from that point on. But for me, the night is well and truly lost. I scarf my replacement scallop dish (ordinary) and ask for the tab. True to his word, the oxtail does not appear on the bill, I walk out the door for KFC and never return to the restaurant again.
Politeness to a point is necessary, but there are times when you have picked a dog of a restaurant or waiter and nothing polite or courteous you say is going to change things. This chap clearly didn't have any "personal problems" and clearly took delight in making a spectacle of himself.
Don't think I enjoyed this for a minute. I like to think that I treat my fellow humans with decency, but there comes a time when the aggrieved diner must take charge and tell the waiter where to put his attitude. If the consumer is paying, and paying handsomely, for a service, he is entitled to be taken seriously and to derive some satisfaction from it.
I would appreciate comments on this string of events, my conclusion and whether my reaction was justified in the circumstances.
#15
Posted 17 August 2006 - 04:58 AM
Kent, way to go.
Pamela, readers (and iPod listeners, notebook computer users, etc.) are not looked upon as bad by waitstaff at all. It's just a question of interpreting signals: experienced servers assume that if you're reading a book or otherwise absorbed in a project then you want to be left alone to the greatest extent possible.
For my part, when I dine alone, I never pull out a book or anything like that. I converse extensively with the staff -- in most good restaurants, waitstaff know to give extra attention to solo diners who seem to want it -- and when I'm not doing that I'm either paying attention to my food, reading the wine list or scanning the room to see what's happening at the other tables. I guess there are some customers, women in particular, who use the book to avoid being hit on by waiters, but on the extremely rare occasion that I've been hit on by a waiter (or, even rarer still, a waitress) I've considered it a compliment. Some other folks, I think, use the book to avoid eye contact with other customers who might pity them for being alone, but if people stare at me I just stare back -- that usually fixes the situation, and it's fun!
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#16
Posted 17 August 2006 - 06:16 AM
Jean Blanchard
#17
Posted 17 August 2006 - 06:34 AM
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#18
Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:27 AM
#19
Posted 17 August 2006 - 07:58 AM
Our first experience (a number of years ago) at a Michelin-starred restaurant turned out to be much less intimidating than we expected, because the staff was so kind and thoughtful.
We have, I think, reached the point - much earlier in life than I expected, given a busy life, house in suburban wasteland, two young kids, etc. - where we have become "regulars" at a extremely well-regarded restaurant in our area (long drive from our house). We didn't intend to become regulars there - we just love the place so much that we use any excuse to eat there, despite the distance. And, in retrospect, it's the sommelier/co-owner that gives the place its vibe. He recognized us on a recent visit (we've talked to him each time we've eaten there), and came over to acknowledge that he recognized us, even before we were seated, which led to a conversation about their recent staff trip to Europe and article about him in a recent industry mag. And we'd already been impressed that he (or someone!) remembered what wine we'd ordered on previous visits.
Anyway, we visited the restaurant again this week. We had indicated on our earlier visit that we were returning, soon, to celebrate a special occasion. And also, when I called the restaurant that day to ask a question, I mentioned in passing that we were celebrating a special occasion. When we arrived, we were disappointed to see that our "friend" (in quotes only because I wouldn't want to presume) was off that night. And the only acknowledgement of us or our special occasion was a comment from the waiter "I think some of you have been here before." (All of our group of 4 had been previously). The food (and the service) were both as fabulous as ever, it's just that, I thought, the extra something special was missing.
So, a two-part question. Specifically, what should one expect from a familiar restaurant when celebrating a special occasion? I wasn't fishing for a free dessert, but possibly congratulations from our server, or something like that (I mean, I'd been kind of starting to feel like family). And then secondly, what is the impact that a good person in the front of the house (or back) can provide - whether it's the maitre de', owner, chef, or in this case, a sommelier/co-owner with a lot of personality? I've been thinking about it a lot since our meal, and have decided one person like that can have a huge influence on the restaurant.
#20
Posted 17 August 2006 - 09:03 AM
The other thing to bear in mind is that, while staff turnover is high, a lot of good servers stay in the industry for a long time -- and usually in the same general location. Very often the best servers focus on hot, new restaurants. There are guys in New York who I know from now-closed restaurants like Lespinasse who are constantly popping up at whatever the latest three- or four-star contender is. Once you have that network established, you can often walk in to a brand-new place where you've never been before and get treated like family right away.
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#21
Posted 17 August 2006 - 09:31 AM
That is, given a limited number of dinners out, it's tempting for me to always go to one of a few places where I'm known, the food is good, etc. I like trying new places, but given the expense, if I have mediocre food -- or worse, mediocre service -- then I kick myself for just not sticking with a known quantity.
On the other hand, my old favorites were once new, so I know it's not impossible to expand my list. And I feel sort of parochial that I don't know more restaurants, especially in a city like San Francisco (where I live), which has great restaurants in every neighborhood.
How do you balance the two?
Janet A. Zimmerman, aka "JAZ"
Manager
jzimmerman@eGullet.org
eG Ethics signatory
About.com guide, Cooking for Two
Ten ways you can help the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters
#22
Posted 17 August 2006 - 09:43 AM
My feeling is that unless you're rich or a member of the food press, you should generally avoid newly opened restaurants. By newly opened I mean less than a year old. It really does take a full year or more for most restaurants to hit their strides -- and a lot of them don't even last the year, so you'll be none the worse for having stayed away.
In terms of visiting restaurants that are new to you, by the time a restaurant has been in business for a year, you should be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to put the place on your short list of places to try. All the professional reviews will be in, there will be online commentary, word-of-mouth, etc.
Then the question becomes what ratio of familiar to untried restaurants will work for you. There are no hard-and-fast rules here. I think it's important to do both, but some people are going to prefer a different mix. I have a friend who almost always goes to familiar restaurants but, once a month, he goes with the same group of three friends and they always try a new (to the group) restaurant. They almost always go for lunch, which is a great way to test a new place because the financial commitment/risk is reduced. What I'd definitely recommend against is ever trying a new (newly opened or new to you) restaurant for an important meal -- kind of like how you shouldn't cook a new recipe for a dinner party.
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#23
Posted 17 August 2006 - 11:02 AM
This question is slightly related... but considering your expertise (and the fact that you mentioned wrangling children in the article), I figured it may be appropriate.
What is the etiquette of dining out with children? I have a two year old and with him, there is always a certain amount of chatter and debris. The last thing I'd like to do is disturb other guests... but, eating out at just Mexican and Pho gets a little tiresome. Unfortunately, due to our monetary restraints, a babysitter is very very rare. (It's a choice between a good meal with the lad, or a cheap meal without). I try to make fairly elaborate meals at home... and I just want the same done for me at least once every week or two!
There is a wealth of "kid friendly dining" suggestions out there... but sometimes I want to try some of the general suggestions I see mentioned in eG! I live in a great food city now and I want to make the most of it.
He is generally an exceptionally well behaved boy, but like any toddler, he has his moments (although we can pre-gauge him well enough to know whether or not we should cancel all together). However, where should one draw the line on where they take a small child? What are the best clues?
Do you have any tips on how the make the most of your dining experience with a special customer in tow? And I don't mean by the staff catering to him at all, necessarily.
Thanks!
#24
Posted 17 August 2006 - 12:45 PM
Oh, and it always helps to have your kid wear an eGullet Society infant/toddler tee-shirt. It lets people know the family is serious about dining:

Beyond that, I don't really think I have anything brilliant to add to the already extensive eG Forums discussion we've had on this issue.
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#25
Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:38 PM
I understand that is eCGI class is about how diners can take charge of
their restaurant experience, however, your book IS called "Turning the
Tables", so I would be interested in your advice to restaurateurs.
What are the top five (or ten) things that you, as an experienced
diner, want to find in a restaurant?
#26
Posted 17 August 2006 - 08:47 PM
Recently I have been to three or four restaurants where we waited more than 20 minutes between appetizer and entre. This alone wouldn't have been so bad, but I felt that the waitstaff didn't do enough to mitigate the situation. Plates weren't removed. Drinks weren't attended to. The waiter mentioned that the food would be out "right away," but by that was way after the appetizers were finished, and we were still looking at the dirty plates. It didn't seem that busy.
I remember the good old days when waitstaff seemed to have much more leeway to comp a drink or a dessert. It can make up for a lot. *sigh*
I read your advice about dealing with problems, and this is probably related. But it leaves me wondering: when (if ever) do you think it's appropriate to cut back on the tip?
#27
Posted 18 August 2006 - 04:51 AM
#28
Posted 18 August 2006 - 06:18 AM
Miss E, I think it's important to note that a tip is not really a gratuity -- at least not completely. Servers are exempt from the regular minimum wage laws (the have a special lower rate), because it's assumed that tips will make up most of their earnings. This subsidy for the restaurant industry, which I think transfers about $26 billion from consumers to waitstaff each year in the United States alone, means you're paying the server's wage not just giving a little extra. As a result, unless a server punches me or something outrageous like that, I won't tip below 10%. I will, however, reduce my tip to 10% if I haven't been satisfied with my service and haven't been able to fix it somehow during the meal. I do this maybe once or twice a year. More importantly, though, you have to speak up. A server has no way of knowing whether you tipped 10% because you think you got bad service or because you're just a cheap bastard -- there are plenty of folks out there who are just low tippers, no matter how good the service is. Tipping is a fascinating subject, I think. Last August I wrote an op-ed in the New York Times about tipping, which you might wish to take a look at.
Pamela, I don't necessarily have a preconceived notion of what a restaurant should be. I try to take restaurants on their own terms and look for some sort of sensible whole. But I guess fundamentally I look for restaurants where it seems like the people running the place care. I doubt many restaurateurs would be interested in my advice, though. It doesn't seem like my preferences or the preferences of most extreme gourmet eGullet Society types are particularly important at 99% of the world's restaurants. Sure, the chefs and owners of the best restaurants care what we think, but the Olive Garden people don't at all. A good example: you can learn from most any industry source that restaurants attract more business and sell more liquor when they're crowded, dark and play music. Now, I speak to audiences, sometimes as large as several hundred people, and sometimes I ask, just as a fun experiment, "Who here prefers a dark, noisy, crowded restaurant to a well-lit, quiet, spacious restaurant?" In an audience of 300 people, you might get 1 or 2 jokers raising their hands just to be difficult. But the reality is that anybody who comes out on a Saturday night to the Smithsonian to hear a talk about restaurants is going to be in a sub-sub-subset of the population that is pretty well divorced from mass market preferences.
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)
#29
Posted 18 August 2006 - 11:22 AM
Actually, here is Washington State, employers are not allowed to take a tip credit against the minimum wage ($7.63 for 2006), so your server is making at least that.Miss E, I think it's important to note that a tip is not really a gratuity -- at least not completely. Servers are exempt from the regular minimum wage laws (the have a special lower rate), because it's assumed that tips will make up most of their earnings. This subsidy for the restaurant industry, which I think transfers about $26 billion from consumers to waitstaff each year in the United States alone, means you're paying the server's wage not just giving a little extra. As a result, unless a server punches me or something outrageous like that, I won't tip below 10%. I will, however, reduce my tip to 10% if I haven't been satisfied with my service and haven't been able to fix it somehow during the meal. I do this maybe once or twice a year. More importantly, though, you have to speak up. A server has no way of knowing whether you tipped 10% because you think you got bad service or because you're just a cheap bastard -- there are plenty of folks out there who are just low tippers, no matter how good the service is. Tipping is a fascinating subject, I think. Last August I wrote an op-ed in the New York Times about tipping, which you might wish to take a look at.
Washington State minimum wage FAQ
#30
Posted 18 August 2006 - 12:29 PM
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)










