73 replies to this topic

[kevinAspork]

As promised
you can get the good stuff (Organic and vegan)
actually from Naturesflavors.com
there is a few sizes to choose from
PM me with any questions
there is a tapioca thread already started So I will continue any other posts I have over there
Thanks

[kevinAspork]

You can also try naturesflavors.com
they have a few smaller size options to choose from.

digijam- I have tried the microwave and it works great as long as you can use LOW power. High power and 30 min+ in the nuker = a small fire

one last thing
the one point that no one has brought up is that when you powder any of the foodstuffs that you have mentioned when you spoon it in your mouth it turns back into caramel or oil or whatever. very interesting I havent tried sour cream yet,
but it sounds very cool.

[Sethro]

As promised
you can get the good stuff (Organic and vegan)
actually from Naturesflavors.com
there is a few sizes to choose from
PM me with any questions
there is a tapioca thread already started So I will continue any other posts I have over there
Thanks

I've been expermenting with the stuff. Took me several tries to get a soil with detectable flavor. The 2:1/starch:fat proportions don't work for me at all. it seems to dry out at around 3:1, but at that point the flavor (and color) is mostly masked by the starch.
My technique thus far has been to start the starch spinning in the robocoupe and then drizzle in the oil. Am I doind something wrong?

Also, anybody know how to work this with chocolate? I tried melting it and thinning it with veg oil. It made for a nice textured soil but the color was light brown and the flavor was barely detectable. Any help?

[Digijam]

I've been expermenting with the stuff. Took me several tries to get a soil with detectable flavor. The 2:1/starch:fat proportions don't work for me at all. it seems to dry out at around 3:1, but at that point the flavor (and color) is mostly masked by the starch.
My technique thus far has been to start the starch spinning in the robocoupe and then drizzle in the oil. Am I doind something wrong?

Also, anybody know how to work this with chocolate? I tried melting it and thinning it with veg oil. It made for a nice textured soil but the color was light brown and the flavor was barely detectable. Any help?

I'd suggest adding the starch to the oil, rather than the other way around, for quicker clumping. That way you can also initially add by eye, using as little as possible depending on your ingredients. Must admit I don't even use a blender for small quantities - just mash with a fork for a soil texture, then sieve for a powder.

I've found a ratio around 2:1 should work okay if mixed with a pure oil mixture, though if there's any water/moisture being used in the recipe more maltodextrin will be needed. As for taste and colour, it's really just matter of making sure the oil is strong enough not to get overly diluted by the bland starch.

What type of chocolate were you working with? I've had no problems with either white or dark - but both still give a good, strong taste (the dark choc does get more coffee coloured, but I can't really see a way to avoid that). Suspect milk chocolate might be a little bland, because that tends to rely so much on mouthfeel from the oil rather than strong flavour.

Wouldn't recommend adding any further veg oil as it just means you will need more maltodextrin to mop it up - with both the extra starch and oil further diluting the flavour.

The one problem I've found with maltodextrin is that the chewiness makes all the soils and powders a little samey, so it needs to be used quite sparingly. And some flavours work better with the texture than others - peanut butter and caramel work so well because they're the sort of thing that stick to the roof of the mouth in the first place.

[Pat Churchill]

Part of me is tempted to scream out "What's wrong with real fresh fruit!!!" The other part is exeptionally curious.

Someone give me an easy method/recipe to try. I have to get my head around some of this stuff. If only to convince The Spouse I am indeed trying to poison him

[rmillman]

For small batches, I drizzle the oil into the zorbit in a small mixing bowl while mixing with a manual whisk. If fine powder is needed, I then sieve.

For increased flavor profiles, I use infused oils and essential oils. Hot mustard oil has become a current favorite but the flavor does diminish if not used fresh.

I obtain my zorbit from www.lepicerie.com.

[jasonsand]

I just bought some tapioca maltodextrin and have played with a few powders, but I am curious if it is possible to cook with these powders. I have heard of Bobby Flay doing a molten lava cake that reconstitutes in your mouth and would like to replicate it. I have not seen it, but the thought of the liquid center reconstituting in your mouth is very interesting to me.

Any help would be good.

I have also tried some veggie powders and found that if you mince the item well, and run it through the microwave at the lowest power setting while stirring it every so often, you can get a great powder. I usually will run it through a processor one more time after drying for a fine powder. I have done this with beets, tomatoes, carrots, and onions. Another option is to use a juicer, and dry the pulp using the same method. That also works quite well, it is a bit quicker due to lack of water content, and you can use the juice for another project.

[BryanZ]

I can't imagine how maltodextrin could be used in the chocolate application you described, jasonsand. And I'm not sure what you mean by a liquid center reconstituting, since by nature reconstituting would mean to add water to. I'm skeptical but would love to see more background on the idea. Bobby Flay isn't exactly known for his hypermodern leanings.

And I'm really sounding like a broken record, but Ideas in Food just put out a couple short posts on N-Zorbit. Like many of us here they were having trouble making the flavors really pop rather than be muted by the starchiness. Apparently they had great success with a yuzu powder made from yuzu oil that sounds pretty awesome.

[BryanZ]

A couple quick results:

Peanut butter: Great results, very peanut-y
Truffle Oil: Good results, though with no color the powder is kind of soulless on its own
Whole Milk Yogurt: Errrr, that one was messy
Bacon Drippings: A work in progress; it was the first thing I tried, and I ran out of bacon to render after a couple mishaps. I was, however, able to use the maltodextrin's fat absorbing capabilities in a more transparent way for a different take on a bacon powder.

[ermintrude]

What's the difference between tapioca maltodextrin and other maltodextrin.

I.e I've seen maoltodextrin for £4 a killo but can't find a source (in small <= 1Kg) quantities of tapioca maltodextrin in the UK.

[Digijam]

Bacon Drippings: A work in progress; it was the first thing I tried, and I ran out of bacon to render after a couple mishaps.  I was, however, able to use the maltodextrin's fat absorbing capabilities in a more transparent way for a different take on a bacon powder.

Now that's an excellent idea. You can't have too many kinds of porky goodness.

What's the difference between tapioca maltodextrin and other maltodextrin.

I.e I've seen maoltodextrin for £4 a killo but can't find a source (in small <= 1Kg)  quantities of tapioca maltodextrin in the UK.

As I understand it most maltodextrin is derived from corn. I couldn't find a good UK source for the tapioca version, either, so just bought a 4lb box of the regular stuff (£12 from Body Active) to see if it would do the trick. It seems to work perfectly, though I'd be interested to know if anybody has tried both types.

[BryanZ]

Bacon Drippings: A work in progress; it was the first thing I tried, and I ran out of bacon to render after a couple mishaps.  I was, however, able to use the maltodextrin's fat absorbing capabilities in a more transparent way for a different take on a bacon powder.

Now that's an excellent idea. You can't have too many kinds of porky goodness.

I think I'm stealing from Alinea, though I can't be certain. Someone mentioned a bacon powder in that thread, so rendered bacon drippings in tapioca maltodextrin just seemd to make sense. I think I went wrong when I tried to add a drop of liquid smoke. Maltodextrin really seems to hate water, a lot.

[Digijam]

What's the difference between tapioca maltodextrin and other maltodextrin.

Okay, finally got around to get holding of some of Zorbit's tapioca maltodextrin, and can confirm there's quite a difference. The corn stuff is far gummier, lacking the creamy meltiness of the tapioca one. Probably worth owning both, as I can see the gummy texture working better with some flavours.

[bobzemuda]

terraspice.com just got back to me.

"The retail cost per pound is $16.96 and it is available in one pound increments. The price does not include shipping. You can place an order by emailing me at judy@terraspice.com with your shipping and payment information.

Thanks,
Judy"

They offer wholesale pricing to restaurants as well though I'm not sure what that cost would be.

[Anatolia]

Wow!! I got mine last week at lepicerie.com for $8.80 a pound.

[bobzemuda]

Wow!! I got mine last week at lepicerie.com for $8.80 a pound.

I emailed them too, but they haven't gotten back to me...what other kinds of stuff do they carry?

[Anatolia]

Wow!! I got mine last week at lepicerie.com for $8.80 a pound.

I emailed them too, but they haven't gotten back to me...what other kinds of stuff do they carry?

In the same line of Molecular Gastronomy products they carry all the usual suspects: sodium alginate, calcium chloride, fruits powders and everything else. I had read about it on foodite.com. But check for yourself their website they cary a lot of "hard to get" pastry products. www.lepicerie.com

I don't know how you were able to send them an email without going and checking their website java script:emoticon(':huh:')
smilie

[fryguy]

Bacon Drippings: A work in progress; it was the first thing I tried, and I ran out of bacon to render after a couple mishaps.  I was, however, able to use the maltodextrin's fat absorbing capabilities in a more transparent way for a different take on a bacon powder.

Now that's an excellent idea. You can't have too many kinds of porky goodness.

I think I'm stealing from Alinea, though I can't be certain. Someone mentioned a bacon powder in that thread, so rendered bacon drippings in tapioca maltodextrin just seemd to make sense. I think I went wrong when I tried to add a drop of liquid smoke. Maltodextrin really seems to hate water, a lot.

Here's my first attempt at bacon fat powder. Could've used a bit more maltodextrin and a good sieving, but otherwise turned out pretty well. Bacon-y, anyways.

I think that grinding cooked bacon with a small amount of maltodextrin would work a little better. Just enough to powder the excess fat, and still have all the good qualities of "real" bacon, color included.
Pic of bacon fat powder

[Digijam]

Here's my first attempt at bacon fat powder.  Could've used a bit more maltodextrin and a good sieving, but otherwise turned out pretty well.  Bacon-y, anyways.

I think that grinding cooked bacon with a small amount of maltodextrin would work a little better.  Just enough to powder the excess fat, and still have all the good qualities of "real" bacon, color included.
Pic of bacon fat powder

Mixing the bacon fat powder with ground bacon could work nicely, too. Just been doing something similar with white truffle oil powder, adding extra black truffle.

Have you tried re-cooking once it's mixed yet? Heating really helps bring the flavour of pork or bacon back out, and if you fry it in clumps rather than as a fine powder you can get a nice combination of crispy outside and melty inside.

Edited by Digijam, 04 December 2006 - 07:05 AM.

[BryanZ]

Here's my first attempt at bacon fat powder.  Could've used a bit more maltodextrin and a good sieving, but otherwise turned out pretty well.  Bacon-y, anyways.

I think that grinding cooked bacon with a small amount of maltodextrin would work a little better.  Just enough to powder the excess fat, and still have all the good qualities of "real" bacon, color included.
Pic of bacon fat powder

Mixing the bacon fat powder with ground bacon could work nicely, too. Just been doing something similar with white truffle oil powder, adding extra black truffle.

Have you tried re-cooking once it's mixed yet? Heating really helps bring the flavour of pork or bacon back out, and if you fry it in clumps rather than as a fine powder you can get a nice combination of crispy outside and melty inside.

Here's what I do for a bacon condiment I put on slow-cooked eggs. It conveys salt, smoke, and pork while adding some subtle texture. People really like it.

Cook bacon in pan until crispy but not burnt, drain, food process with salt and maltodextrin, dry in low oven, food process again with a bit more maltodextrin until you get a fine powder.

Obviously this is like a refined take on Bacon Bits. By drying in the oven you can drive off all the water and adding the maltodextrin allows one to absorb the remaining fat so you get a really nice, dry power.

[RocketChef]

What's the difference between tapioca maltodextrin and other maltodextrin.

Okay, finally got around to get holding of some of Zorbit's tapioca maltodextrin, and can confirm there's quite a difference. The corn stuff is far gummier, lacking the creamy meltiness of the tapioca one. Probably worth owning both, as I can see the gummy texture working better with some flavours.

Can you give me a source for tapioca maltodextrin in the UK ? I can't find it anywhere!
Thanks in advance.

[Digijam]

Can you give me a source for tapioca maltodextrin in the UK ? I can't find it anywhere!
Thanks in advance.

It's now available as part of the El Bulli Texturas range - with the name Malto - from all the usual European websites, but you can request a free sample of Zorbit directly from National Starch. They call it a sample, it's actually more like a lifetime's supply (about 20 times the amount in the Texturas tin).

[gfron1]

I'm bumping this topic as an extension to my search for malt ball texture.

I have my bag of TapMalt finally. I'm trying to make a chicklet sized after dinner mint that is pressed powder wrapped in a skin. The powder, I am thinking, will be basically chocolate mint ice cream with TapMalt. I'll use the proportions mentioned in this topic and report back. Any final advice or warnings?

Also, I'm assuming that when I had the powdered browned butter at Alinea, this is how they did it.

Thanks.

[BryanZ]

Alinea is currently doing bacon powder wrapped in a hard pineapple candy skin. I don't think the powdered brown butter is the same, however. The texture are different, if I recall.

[FerranHomaroHestonWylieGrant]

Can you give me a source for tapioca maltodextrin in the UK ? I can't find it anywhere!
Thanks in advance.

It's now available as part of the El Bulli Texturas range - with the name Malto - from all the usual European websites, but you can request a free sample of Zorbit directly from National Starch. They call it a sample, it's actually more like a lifetime's supply (about 20 times the amount in the Texturas tin).

How do you get it off them? And does milk work?

[sbb1979]

Go to the National Starch website as listed above. Find the N-Zorbit product and request a sample.

You should have it within a couple of days.

[sygyzy]

Hi everyone,

First post here. I planned a big dinner for my roommate's birthday on Saturday and planned on having mini baked potatoes with 3 small piles of butter, sour cream, and bacon powders. I spent a few hours in the afternoon trying to get them to work, but was just met with failure. I have the N-Zorbit version of the tapioca maltodextrin.

The first surprise I got was that this stuff weighs next to nothing. I measured out 120 grams of sour cream. Next, I tried to weigh out 80 grams of N-Zorbit only to find that after 2 cups, it still only weighed 10 grams. This stuff is light as air. I had to be careful not to breath it in. I tried using an immersion blender and all I could get was a smooth cream. Nothing solid and definitely not powder.

Next I tried bacon fat inside a blender with a large amount of N-Zorbit. This time I got little pieces that resembled soft dry dough. Again, no powder.

Any tips would be appreciated. I am excited about being here!

[Digijam]

The first surprise I got was that this stuff weighs next to nothing. I measured out 120 grams of sour cream. Next, I tried to weigh out 80 grams of N-Zorbit only to find that after 2 cups, it still only weighed 10 grams. This stuff is light as air. I had to be careful not to breath it in. I tried using an immersion blender and all I could get was a smooth cream. Nothing solid and definitely not powder.

Next I tried bacon fat inside a blender with a large amount of N-Zorbit. This time I got little pieces that resembled soft dry dough. Again, no powder.

Any tips would be appreciated. I am excited about being here!

Sour cream is going to be a tough one, as it's more water than fat. Try sticking to oils, or mixes of oil and solids (peanut butter etc) and strongly flavoured ones at at. Sounds like you were almost there with the bacon fat. Just try pushing it through a fine mesh. If you're still not getting a fine powder, then stir in a bit more N-Zorbit and try again. And try starting with small quantities of oil - a little goes a long way.

[TheSwede]

For the sour cream, you could try pouring it thinly on a silpat or similar and drying it on low heat in the oven. Then break into pieces and mix in a blender to a powder. It probably has to be very dry for this to work.

But it might taste horribly after sitting on low heat in the oven for a couple of hours. I really have no idea!

[sygyzy]

What does the final texture resemble? From pictures I have seen, the pieces look fairly large and does not look entirely dry. Is it really powder like flour or is it more like wet clumps of sand?