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Chocolate Chiffon Cake

Chocolate Dessert

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54 replies to this topic

#31 Ling

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Posted 08 July 2006 - 10:47 PM

^Lowering the amount of flour and replacing it with the same amount of cocoa won't cause your cake to fall out of the pan or become rubbery...it is more likely because you overmixed the batter.

#32 miladyinsanity

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 06:55 AM

Substituting more of the flour for the cocoa might have made your cake collapse, but like Ling said, it shouldn't cause your cake to fall out.
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#33 LittleIsland

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Posted 12 July 2006 - 12:22 AM

Substituting more of the flour for the cocoa might have made your cake collapse, but like Ling said, it shouldn't cause your cake to fall out.

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You're right of course ladies. Thinking back, I'm quite sure I did overbeat the batter. I was very careful not to do so the last couple of times and had no problems.

So I'm really pleased to report that increasing the water to 3/4 cup and decreasing baking time to 40 minutes has really helped improve the moistness of the cake, and also get rid of much of the dry sides - although not completely and I suppose it's going to be difficult to achieve that. That would not be a problem if I'm frosting the cake, but if having it plain from the angel food pan then I need to keep working on the sides.

Today I added 1 1/2 tsp of coffee to the water but it didn't make an appreciable difference to the flavour - at least not to my tastebuds.

#34 shaloop

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:21 PM

I've made the Spago cake from this recipe here

It was a while ago but the Chocolate Craqueline Mousse Cake turned out great. I skipped the sugar syrup though.

The chiffon cake turned out just right. Nice texture. Wasn't dense at all. And chocolatey rich.

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Well I just made this version of the Spago Cake and while it tasted lovely I have to admit that I strayed from the recipe a bit. I didn't grease and flour the sides of the pan, only lined the bottom. While cooking the cake was nice and high but once done it sank (both pans), especially in the middle. I put them on cooling racks, upside down and almost immediately they fell onto the racks (though in 3" deep pans), tearing from around the sides. I turned them over and released them from the sides with a spatula and turned them out and inverted back up to cool. They tasted good and were somewhat delicate and very chocolatey, but I lost a few pieces. I was able to patch together a decent black forest cake with it, but next time I'll follow the instructions exactly as far as greasing/flouring and treat it as any other layer cake. Has anyone thought that maybe the recipe is wrong? The oil and water amounts are opposite that of a normal chiffon cake. Anyone think they may have been accidentally swapped?

#35 pastrymama

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:03 PM

I have a large size recipe from when I worked at Spago and it is the same proportions as the recipe in the link. The water and oil amounts are correct.
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#36 filipe

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 06:18 AM

Posted Image

Althoug it's a diferent recipe, chocolate chiffon is one of my favourite cakes.
And it has a great potential por some variations as well, and some flavour combinations. These are mine "4 Seasons" versions...

Posted Image
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there's allways room for some more weight

#37 iii_bake

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 08:51 AM

Hi,
I haven't made any of the recipes but it is interesting to read thru.
I am not good at foaming cake technique and always wonder how i can indicate if the mixing is done thru and how can you tell that the batter is deflating too much.
Is there a lot of oven spring for foam cake and does the cake shrink a lot after coming out of the oven... by how much ..30%...50%?
last Q: what do you guys use for folding?
I am trying to work on this but always got scared ( too face the truth of flat cake!) :sad:
SOS.
Thanks :smile:
iii

#38 ruthcooks

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 03:05 PM

To make your cake more chocolate-y, why not substitute black cocoa for part of the regular kind? I usually put a rounded tablespoon in the bottom of a 1/4 C. measuring cup and fill it up with Hershey or Scharffenberger regular, for example. I don't like Dutch Process at all.

I've always heard it's better to overbeat than underbeat chiffon cakes. Perhaps they were referring to the whites?
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#39 merstar

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 07:24 PM

To make your cake more chocolate-y, why not substitute black cocoa for part of the regular kind?  I usually put a rounded tablespoon in the bottom of a 1/4 C. measuring cup and fill it up with Hershey or Scharffenberger regular, for example.  I don't like Dutch Process at all.


But Ruth, black cocoa is Dutch Processed. It's ultra alkalized. :)
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#40 ruthcooks

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 08:50 AM

Yes, I know that...I'm talking about the pale stuff.
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#41 LittleIsland

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 12:14 AM

I use Van Houeten cocoa which is Dutch processed and with the Spago recipe which calls for 3/4 cup (about 80g), it makes a very dark and chocolate-y chiffon cake.

I was researching black cocoa and read somewhere that although it does provide a lovely rich dark colour, it doesn't necessarily taste better or more intense. Would be interesting to compare it in the same recipe except I'd have to buy it online and get it shipped here (v.expensive!)

Don't overbeat the batter of the chiffon cake (before adding the whites) I did this a couple of times and the cake fell out of the pan after inverting and was ruined. Don't overbeat the whites either as they will become lumpy and difficult to fold into the batter and you'll get lots of unmixed white bits in your cake. Of course underbeating them is not good either.

I beat the batter in my Kenwood Chef for about 2 minutes, that's it. Egg whites are beaten till firm but not until they start breaking down into lumps. I use a large slotted skimmer to fold my egg whites into the batter. If you fold with a firm hand and thoroughly around the sides and down to the bottom of the bowl with each fold, it shouldn't take more than, say, a minute to finish folding all the egg whites into the batter (I guess it might take less time for more experienced bakers). This is made easier by first folding about a 1/4 of the beaten whites into the batter and then the rest.

The cake rises about 25% more than the volume of the batter and shrinks by about 5% upon removal from the oven. My crude estimates only, however :smile:

#42 iii_bake

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 02:13 AM

I use Van Houeten cocoa which is Dutch processed and with the Spago recipe which calls for 3/4 cup (about 80g), it makes a very dark and chocolate-y chiffon cake.

I was researching black cocoa and read somewhere that although it does provide a lovely rich dark colour, it doesn't necessarily taste better or more intense.  Would be interesting to compare it in the same recipe except I'd have to buy it online and get it shipped here (v.expensive!)

Don't overbeat the batter of the chiffon cake (before adding the whites) I did this a couple of times and the cake fell out of the pan after inverting and was ruined.  Don't overbeat the whites either as they will become lumpy and difficult to fold into the batter and you'll get lots of unmixed white bits in your cake.  Of course underbeating them is not good either. 

I beat the batter in my Kenwood Chef for about 2 minutes, that's it.  Egg whites are beaten till firm but not until they start breaking down into lumps.  I use a large slotted skimmer to fold my egg whites into the batter.  If you fold with a firm hand and thoroughly around the sides and down to the bottom of the bowl with each fold, it shouldn't take more than, say, a minute to finish folding all the egg whites into the batter (I guess it might take less time for more experienced bakers).  This is made easier by first folding about a 1/4 of the beaten whites into the batter and then the rest.

The cake rises about 25% more than the volume of the batter and shrinks by about 5% upon removal from the oven.  My crude estimates only, however  :smile:

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Lovely, i will now go and concentrate on my technique. I always think my chiffon never rises.
About the cocoa...what do you think about Vahrona?
Thanks for the clarification.
iii :smile:

#43 LittleIsland

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 03:44 AM

Don't know about Vahlrona (sp?) as we don't have it here, but I guess any Dutch-processed should do. Good luck... it's a fantastic cake, I love it!

The other day I made
this
using the same recipe and it was fantastic! The only problem I had was cooling it successfully in a 10-inch pan as I've always used an angel food tube pan. So I have to work on that... maybe use a flower nail or something, and a higher pan so that the sides can support the inversion.

#44 iii_bake

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 04:20 AM

Don't know about Vahlrona (sp?) as we don't have it here, but I guess any Dutch-processed should do.  Good luck... it's a fantastic cake, I love it!

The other day I made
this
using the same recipe and it was fantastic!  The only problem I had was cooling it successfully in a 10-inch pan as I've always used an angel food tube pan.  So I have to work on that... maybe use a flower nail or something, and a higher pan so that the sides can support the inversion.

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It is the french Cocoa and chocolate, i saw many of Pierre Herme's recipes calling for it.
I have this. It is quite dark. Just wonder how it compares to the dark cocoa.
Will try. ( At the moment, CNN and BBC are casting news on "unprecendented" alleged terror plot at the UK airport...hope all is well!)

Thanks

#45 oli

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 07:25 AM

Don't know about Vahlrona (sp?) as we don't have it here, but I guess any Dutch-processed should do.  Good luck... it's a fantastic cake, I love it!

The other day I made
this
using the same recipe and it was fantastic!  The only problem I had was cooling it successfully in a 10-inch pan as I've always used an angel food tube pan.  So I have to work on that... maybe use a flower nail or something, and a higher pan so that the sides can support the inversion.

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Looks really good the recipe from Spago's, I just wish the photo was better, so I could get a better look at the decoration on the top.

#46 Patrick S

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 07:54 AM

I use Van Houeten cocoa which is Dutch processed and with the Spago recipe which calls for 3/4 cup (about 80g), it makes a very dark and chocolate-y chiffon cake.

I was researching black cocoa and read somewhere that although it does provide a lovely rich dark colour, it doesn't necessarily taste better or more intense.  Would be interesting to compare it in the same recipe except I'd have to buy it online and get it shipped here (v.expensive!)

View Post


I don't know where you live, but the darkest cocoa I've ever seen is Hershey's Special Dark cocoa, and that is very widely available at supermarkets in the US. It is a dutched, or alkalized cocoa, and to me it tastes an awful lot like Oreo cookies. Personally I prefer dutched cocoa, but this variety is actually over-dutched, and makes for cakes that look almost black. Hershey's first version of dutch cocoa -- Hershey's European Style cocoa, was actually much better.
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#47 iii_bake

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 08:08 AM

I use Van Houeten cocoa which is Dutch processed and with the Spago recipe which calls for 3/4 cup (about 80g), it makes a very dark and chocolate-y chiffon cake.

I was researching black cocoa and read somewhere that although it does provide a lovely rich dark colour, it doesn't necessarily taste better or more intense.  Would be interesting to compare it in the same recipe except I'd have to buy it online and get it shipped here (v.expensive!)

View Post


I don't know where you live, but the darkest cocoa I've ever seen is Hershey's Special Dark cocoa, and that is very widely available at supermarkets in the US. It is a dutched, or alkalized cocoa, and to me it tastes an awful lot like Oreo cookies. Personally I prefer dutched cocoa, but this variety is actually over-dutched, and makes for cakes that look almost black. Hershey's first version of dutch cocoa -- Hershey's European Style cocoa, was actually much better.

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Again, about Vahlrona..ave u ever tried? It seems so dark for me..is it the same dark? :unsure:

#48 Patrick S

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 08:24 AM

I use Van Houeten cocoa which is Dutch processed and with the Spago recipe which calls for 3/4 cup (about 80g), it makes a very dark and chocolate-y chiffon cake.

I was researching black cocoa and read somewhere that although it does provide a lovely rich dark colour, it doesn't necessarily taste better or more intense.  Would be interesting to compare it in the same recipe except I'd have to buy it online and get it shipped here (v.expensive!)

View Post


I don't know where you live, but the darkest cocoa I've ever seen is Hershey's Special Dark cocoa, and that is very widely available at supermarkets in the US. It is a dutched, or alkalized cocoa, and to me it tastes an awful lot like Oreo cookies. Personally I prefer dutched cocoa, but this variety is actually over-dutched, and makes for cakes that look almost black. Hershey's first version of dutch cocoa -- Hershey's European Style cocoa, was actually much better.

View Post


Again, about Vahlrona..ave u ever tried? It seems so dark for me..is it the same dark? :unsure:

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Yes, I've used Valrhona cocoa, and personally I find it way over-priced (as opposed to their chocolates, which I do think are worth the price). In terms of color, Valrhona is typical for dutched cocoas. The Hershey's Special Dark is actually much darker than the Valrhona cocoa, because it is "over-dutched," which is I understand it enhances the browning of the cocoa when it is roasted.
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#49 iii_bake

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 08:47 AM

I use Van Houeten cocoa which is Dutch processed and with the Spago recipe which calls for 3/4 cup (about 80g), it makes a very dark and chocolate-y chiffon cake.

I was researching black cocoa and read somewhere that although it does provide a lovely rich dark colour, it doesn't necessarily taste better or more intense.  Would be interesting to compare it in the same recipe except I'd have to buy it online and get it shipped here (v.expensive!)

View Post


I don't know where you live, but the darkest cocoa I've ever seen is Hershey's Special Dark cocoa, and that is very widely available at supermarkets in the US. It is a dutched, or alkalized cocoa, and to me it tastes an awful lot like Oreo cookies. Personally I prefer dutched cocoa, but this variety is actually over-dutched, and makes for cakes that look almost black. Hershey's first version of dutch cocoa -- Hershey's European Style cocoa, was actually much better.

View Post


Again, about Vahlrona..ave u ever tried? It seems so dark for me..is it the same dark? :unsure:

View Post


Yes, I've used Valrhona cocoa, and personally I find it way over-priced (as opposed to their chocolates, which I do think are worth the price). In terms of color, Valrhona is typical for dutched cocoas. The Hershey's Special Dark is actually much darker than the Valrhona cocoa, because it is "over-dutched," which is I understand it enhances the browning of the cocoa when it is roasted.

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Got it, thanks.
We do not have the over dutched version here i guess.
I will try internet order then.
Thnx

#50 LittleIsland

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 08:51 AM

I don't know where you live, but the darkest cocoa I've ever seen is Hershey's Special Dark cocoa, and that is very widely available at supermarkets in the US. It is a dutched, or alkalized cocoa, and to me it tastes an awful lot like Oreo cookies. Personally I prefer dutched cocoa, but this variety is actually over-dutched, and makes for cakes that look almost black. Hershey's first version of dutch cocoa -- Hershey's European Style cocoa, was actually much better.


Yes I read your findings in the other thread about cocoa because I was trying to find out if it would be worth my while trying black cocoa but in the end I decided not to bother getting it shipped out - at least for now - since there doesn't seem to be a definitively huge plus for it. Happy with VH for now.

I live in Singapore and in the supermarkets we have Hershey's Cocoa but not Special Dark. We also have Ghirardelli but I haven't seen any feedback that puts it above VH either. I guess if I tried harder I might be able to get Valrhona from some of the commercial suppliers but from what you say it doesn't sound like it's worth it...

#51 Dailey

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 08:57 AM

I don't know where you live, but the darkest cocoa I've ever seen is Hershey's Special Dark cocoa, and that is very widely available at supermarkets in the US. It is a dutched, or alkalized cocoa, and to me it tastes an awful lot like Oreo cookies. Personally I prefer dutched cocoa, but this variety is actually over-dutched, and makes for cakes that look almost black. Hershey's first version of dutch cocoa -- Hershey's European Style cocoa, was actually much better.

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[/quote]


that's so true, i made a chocolate fudge cake last week, using the hersey's dark cocoa, and the whole house smelled like oreo cookies!

#52 Patrick S

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 09:44 AM

I live in Singapore and in the supermarkets we have Hershey's Cocoa but not Special Dark.  We also have Ghirardelli but I haven't seen any feedback that puts it above VH either.  I guess if I tried harder I might be able to get Valrhona from some of the commercial suppliers but from what you say it doesn't sound like it's worth it...

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FYI-- Between Ghirardelli and regular Hershey's, I would definitely choose Hershey's. Ghirardelli doesn't taste good at all! Just my opinion, of course.
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#53 LittleIsland

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 10:03 AM

FYI-- Between Ghirardelli and regular Hershey's, I would definitely choose Hershey's. Ghirardelli doesn't taste good at all! Just my opinion, of course.

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Good, that saves me forking out the extra for Ghirardelli :biggrin: since I totally trust your opinion Patrick! I have not bought regular Hershey's as it's not dutched. Can't say I'm an Oreo cookie fan either.

#54 iii_bake

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Posted 10 August 2006 - 06:14 PM

I live in Singapore and in the supermarkets we have Hershey's Cocoa but not Special Dark.  We also have Ghirardelli but I haven't seen any feedback that puts it above VH either.  I guess if I tried harder I might be able to get Valrhona from some of the commercial suppliers but from what you say it doesn't sound like it's worth it...

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FYI-- Between Ghirardelli and regular Hershey's, I would definitely choose Hershey's. Ghirardelli doesn't taste good at all! Just my opinion, of course.

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I have one can (?) of Ghirardelli...bought from S'pore..thinking i would like to try because we only have Hershey's, Van houten on supermarket shelves..I order Lindt and VH from the hotel suppliers.
Your comment does give me a bit at rest...if hershey's is your pick. But as Littleisland said...it is not dutched...The dutched one i sometime use the brand that has a drawing of nurse carrying the cocoa cup ( god, forgot the name!) on the side of the can.

I think I'll start working on the chiffon with Ghirardelli until i am half the way to success Then i'll switch to VH when i know my way around better.
I f any of you can give me advices or warnings before i jump on the wagon, I'd appreciate it. please do help.
Thnx. :wink:

#55 miladyinsanity

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Posted 11 August 2006 - 08:26 AM

LittleIsland, I'll PM you, but you know, it's actually cheaper to buy Valrhona cocoa in bulk here (9.50 for a kilo) than Van Houten. You can also find Hershey's Special Dark here, but you have to really look to find it.
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