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Stomping Through the "Savoy" (2006–2007)


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#571 bostonapothecary

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 10:37 AM

related to the daiquiri isn't the most important variable the lime?
i used to mix some drinks with the "juice of a lime" and i got what i got...  my sugar content was measured out but the lime acid component was at the mercy of size, seasonal consistency, etc.  the spread was so large that i stopped doing it...  in theory it seemed like the rural, rustic and romantic way to make one...

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Absolutely. I find that by dint of constant repetition I've learned to eyeball it in the glass; since the lime goes in first, if it looks significantly over or under the half-ounce average for a half lime I can tweak the sugar to match. I think it's worth putting up with the variation since (for me, anyway) that rustic romance is an important part of the drink; its flair. For vast crowds, however, I'll juice in advance and use a standard half ounce of lime juice. It just doesn't look (or feel) the same, though.

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but that is just volume... i wonder how acidity fluctuates... i was gonna try to buy different limes all over the city and see how they fluctuated in both volume and PH. all those apple-tini drinking people are in danger of getting scurvy. i'm just fighting the good fight. i wonder if i could put a lime tree in a green house? when i was a kid growing up in the menenite area, the greenhouse up the road and down the dirt path on the other side of a corn field had a banana tree... it was completely magical to see. middle of nowhere, horse and buggies, fresh bananas...
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#572 Splificator

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 11:24 AM

but that is just volume... i wonder how acidity fluctuates... i was gonna try to buy different limes all over the city and see how they fluctuated in both volume and PH. 

I'd be very curious to see the results of that experiment. I definitely notice fluctuations in acidity, with the older, more tired limes having more, I believe, but nothing consistent or qualifiable. In general, with fresh-ish limes, I havent had enough fluctuation to experience real problems, but then again I've got a pretty good tolerance for tartness.
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#573 slkinsey

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:27 PM

Interestingly, lately I've been getting limes with almost two ounces of juice, and lemons that barely have a half-ounce.
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#574 eje

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:42 PM

One thing I do wonder about is the availability of citrus.

Citrus are pretty seasonal fruits. Right now, here in CA, we seem to be at the tail end of the lime season, and the very beginning of the lemon season.

(Generally, in North America, Citrus season starts in the fall, with the smaller, tarter harvested fruit, picked first, and progressing through early spring for the larger, sweeter harvested fruit.)

In England of the 1920s or America pre-prohibition, could you really expect to have limes, lemons, and oranges year around?

If not, what would you use when you didn't have fresh? Syrup? Chemical fabrication? Shubs?
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#575 Splificator

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 12:48 PM

If not, what would you use when you didn't have fresh?  Syrup?  Chemical fabrication?  Shubs?

Gin. Vermouth.
aka David Wondrich

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#576 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 01:43 PM

If not, what would you use when you didn't have fresh?  Syrup?  Chemical fabrication?  Shubs?

Gin. Vermouth.

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Surely the fancier places could have expected to have some around year-round, and most of these recipes use citrus pretty judiciously as opposed to modern recipes that use a full ounce or more, or worse, top off the whole thing with sour mix, etc. But on the other hand, could the shortage of year-round citrus have contributed to the rise of garnishes like cherries and olives in drinks that (in my opinion) show better with a citrus twist? I've noticed that it normally doesn't even take a week for a grocery store lemon to dry out to the point where cutting a twist from it is pointless.

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#577 eje

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 02:33 PM

If not, what would you use when you didn't have fresh?  Syrup?  Chemical fabrication?  Shubs?

Gin. Vermouth.

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I guess you mean a) patrons would not expect to be able to order those cocktails and b) bars would not be able to make them unless you were somewhere very cosmopolitan (San Francisco, New York, London or Paris) or where the ingredients were plentiful. And then, probably not year 'round.

I guess that jives with growing up in Wisconsin, and what I've seen of pictures of cocktail parties there in the 40s and 50s.

Old-Fashioneds, Martinis, and Gimlets were about all I saw in peoples hands. Well, that and cigarettes.

When I was talking to Victoria Damato-Moran, she mentioned that some of her relatives had been making bottled sour mix in the North Beach area of San Francisco for a very long time. I'll have to ask her about that time frame again.

Edited by eje, 05 October 2007 - 02:43 PM.

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#578 bostonapothecary

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Posted 05 October 2007 - 04:32 PM

couldn't you can the lime juice?

"real" brand lemon juice. i don't remember seeing a real live lemon as a child. only the bottled juice. sometime to me the need for a cocktail is more about craving an acidity rather than an alcohol. when i get the itch it is usually for a sour drink... i enjoy sweet vermouthy, amaroesque drinks but would never give a mint julep the time of day when i could have a smash.
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#579 eje

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 11:42 AM

Well, you can certainly bottle it, never seen it canned. Perhaps too reactive with metal?

Certainly real lemon wedges would go in Iced Tea, etc. when I was growing up. Don't remember ever seeing one juiced for lemonade. That always came from frozen concentrate or powder.
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#580 eje

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Posted 06 October 2007 - 11:49 AM

Posted Image

Dandy Cocktail

1/2 Rye or Canadian Club Whisky. (1 1/2 oz Rittenhouse Bonded Rye Whiskey)
1/2 Dubonnet. (1 1/2 oz Dubbonet Rouge)
1 Dash Angostura Bitters.
3 Dashes Cointreau. (1/2 tsp. Cointreau)
1 Piece Lemon Peel.
1 Piece Orange Peel.

Shake (stir - eje) well and strain into cocktail glass.

Not the greatest picture, sorry about that. I may re-make this tonight and try to get a better shot.

I have had a horrible cold all this week, and this was the first cocktail to break the fast.

I interpreted this literally, cutting two wide swaths of peel, squeezing them into the ingredients, and then stirring them in there with everything else.

The use of peels as an ingredient makes me think of 19th century drinks like Cobblers, though the use of Cointreau and Dubonnet, seems to place it more squarely in the 20th Century. Perhaps a 20th Century adaptation of a 19th Century recipe?

Quite nice. Similar to a Manhattan, yet quite distinct. The milder flavor of the Rittenhouse seemed appropriate to the Dubonnet, rather than the Sazerac Straight or Wild Turkey.

Definitely something I'll make again.
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#581 eje

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 11:06 AM

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Darb Cocktail

1/3 French Vermouth. (3/4 oz Noilly Prat)
1/3 Dry Gin. (3/4 oz Bombay Dry Gin)
1/3 Apricot Brandy. (3/4 oz Rothman & Winter Orchard Apricot)
4 Dashes Lemon Juice. (Juice 1/8 Lemon)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

I also tried this with Zwack Barack Palinka in place of the apricot liqueur. While that combination is, uh, interesting, and sort of like a vaguely apricot flavored Casino Cocktail, I really understood why thirtyoneknots said, "as it started to warm it became somewhat harsh," about the Culross Cocktail. I think any cocktail with more than a little Zwack Barack Palinka, and you're going to want it plenty cold.

Anyway, I stirred this, and double strained to get any stray lemon pulp out. I thought it was a quite attractive. A shimmery translucent peach in color.

According to Bartleby.com, quoting "The Columbia Guide to Standard American English", "Darb is an Americanism probably nearly obsolete today, a slang word from the 1920s meaning 'something or someone very handsome, valuable, attractive, or otherwise excellent.'"

Couldn't agree more!
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#582 eje

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 04:27 PM

I was reading Dr. Cocktail's monthly column in Imbibe the other day. He featured interesting tidbits about one of the early American Bar at the Savoy Hotel Head Bartenders, Ms. Ada Coleman.

However, near the end of his article, he states that the Savoy Hotel will be closing in the near future for an extensive renovation.

Just in case anyone was planning a pilgrimage to the Savoy Hotel, I thought I might send the folks at Fairmont Hotels (The Savoy's Parent Company) a note and ask for details.

They were kind enough to respond.

The Savoy Hotel will be closing 15 December 2007 for an extensive renovation.

The American Bar will be part of the renovation.

They are expecting the renovation to take approximately 16 months and are hoping the Hotel and American Bar will be open again some time in 2009.

Until then, you will have to content yourself with the Dorchester, or another of the bars where Mr. Craddock held court.

Though, given the current exchange rate with the Pound, it might be best to cross your fingers and wait until 2009!
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Erik Ellestad
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#583 eje

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 09:46 PM

Posted Image

Davis Cocktail
1/4 Jamaica Rum. (generous 1/2 oz Inner Circle Green)
1/2 French Vermouth. (generous 1 oz Noilly Prat Dry)
2 Dashes Grenadine. (1 tsp. homemade)
Juice of 1/2 Lemon or 1 Lime. (1 lime)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

This is a confusing one, not least because the ingredient fractions fail to add up to the usual "one".

My version of Duffy gives it as:

Davis
1/2 Jamaica Rum.
1/2 French Vermouth.
2 Dashes Raspberry Syrup.
Juice of 1 Lime.
Shake well with ice and strain into glass.

And the Cocktaildb, Jones' Complete Barguide one assumes, gives it as:

Davis Cocktail
3/4 oz fresh lime juice (2 cl, 3/16 gills)
1 1/2 oz Jamaica rum (4.5 cl, 3/8 gills)
1/2 oz raspberry syrup (or grenadine) (1.5 cl, 1/8 gills)
3/4 oz dry vermouth (2 cl, 3/16 gills)

I tried the cocktaildb version on Saturday night using Appleton V/X and my wife said it tasted like candy. Pretty disgusting. Way too much grenadine.

Went back to the original, and decided the sensible thing would be an overproof and rather flavorful rum. Not bad at all. With the Inner Circle overproof rum and a reasonable amount of sweetener, it really is all about the rum and the lime. A refreshing tonic.

Edited by eje, 11 October 2007 - 11:26 AM.

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#584 eje

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:23 AM

Posted Image

Davis Brandy Cocktail

1 Dash Angostura Bitters.
4 Dashes Grenadine. (1 tsp. homemade grenadine)
1/3 French Vermouth. (3/4 oz Noilly Prat Dry)
2/3 Brandy. (1 1/2 oz Maison Surrenne Petite Champagne Cognac)

Shake (Stir - eje) well and strain into cocktail glass.

A thoroughly enjoyable cocktail.

All about the brandy with just a little sweetness and fruitiness from the grenadine.
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Erik Ellestad
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#585 kvltrede

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 02:59 PM

...I endorse both of Zwack's products from Hungary: Pescetes and Kecskemeti Barack palinka.

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Hey, David, any chance you've compared the two head-to-head and can give us a little idea as to how they differ? I have the one in the round bottle--the Pescetes, I think--but I've never come across the other.

Thanks.

Kurt
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#586 eje

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 01:29 PM

Posted Image

Deauville Cocktail

1/4 Brandy. (Generous 1/2 oz Maison Surrenne Petite Champagne Cognac)
1/4 Calvados. (Generous 1/2 oz Germain-Robin Apple Brandy)
1/4 Cointreau. (Generous 1/2 oz Cointreau)
1/4 Lemon Juice. (Generous 1/2 oz fresh lemon juice)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Quite nice! The equivalent of a 2-1-1 Sidecar.

The use of Brandy and Apple Brandy gives it a bit more interest.

According to wikipedia:

Deauville is a commune of the Calvados département, in the Basse-Normandie région, in France. With its racecourse, harbour, marinas, conference center, villas, Grand Casino and sumptuous hotels, Deauville is regarded as the queen of the Norman beaches.


So the use of Calvados in this cocktail, certainly makes sense.
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#587 eje

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 09:39 AM

Posted Image

Deep Sea Cocktail

1 Dash Absinthe. (Verte de Fougerolles)
1 Dash Orange Bitters. (Regan's Orange Bitters)
1/2 French Vermouth. (1 1/2 oz Noilly Prat Dry)
1/2 Old Tom Gin. (1 1/2 oz Junipero Gin, dash rich simple syrup)

Shake (stir - eje) well and strain into cocktail glass. Add 1 olive (Divina Roasted Red Pepper Stuffed) and squeeze Lemon Peel on top.

Fabulous Martini-like cocktail and a great use for Junipero Gin.

Also, not always that big a fan of the olive in lighter flavored gin martinis. With the Absinthe and orange bitters here, it really is an enjoyable combination.

Edited by eje, 20 October 2007 - 01:55 PM.

---
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#588 eje

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 10:23 AM

Posted Image

Dempsey Cocktail

2 Dashes Absinthe. (Verte de Fougerolles)
2 Dashes Grenadine. (Homemade)
1/2 Gin. (Generous 1 oz Bombay Gin)
1/2 Calvados. (Generous 1 oz Clear Creek Apple Brandy)

Shake, (it would probably be more attractive stirred - eje) well and strain into cocktail glass.

I'm not sure what Steve McCarthy will be more angry about, the crappy photo of his product or the fact that I used his Apple Brandy in this 1930s era "shooter".

Anyway, I dropped my wife's digital camera just before she was off for a trip to New York City. It seemed like the only civilized thing to do was to buy a new one and give her mine for the trip. Unfortunately, that means I'm stuck with my semi-working crappy old camera, which I also dropped about 2 years ago. At least until her new camera arrives. So you'll have to bear with me for a couple kind of crap looking cocktails while I figure out if I can get this thing to work.

The Dempsey Cocktail is just booze. I assume it is named after boxer Jack Dempsey, "The Manassa Mauler." In the general vicinity of the "Earthquake" and "Bunny Hug," compared to those potent concoctions, the Dempsey Cocktail is actually fairly enjoyable. There's an almost "holiday" spiciness from the combination of flavors that I didn't expect.

However, unless you want to be hugging the canvas later in the evening, I don't recommend over indulging on Dempsey Cocktails.
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#589 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 12:14 PM

Posted Image

Dempsey Cocktail

2 Dashes Absinthe. (Verte de Fougerolles)
2 Dashes Grenadine. (Homemade)
1/2 Gin. (Generous 1 oz Bombay Gin)
1/2 Calvados. (Generous 1 oz Clear Creek Apple Brandy)

Shake, (it would probably be more attractive stirred - eje) well and strain into cocktail glass.

I'm not sure what Steve McCarthy will be more angry about, the crappy photo of his product or the fact that I used his Apple Brandy in this 1930s era "shooter".

Anyway, I dropped my wife's digital camera just before she was off for a trip to New York City.  It seemed like the only civilized thing to do was to buy a new one and give her mine for the trip.  Unfortunately, that means I'm stuck with my semi-working crappy old camera, which I also dropped about 2 years ago.  At least until her new camera arrives.  So you'll have to bear with me for a couple kind of crap looking cocktails while I figure out if I can get this thing to work.

The Dempsey Cocktail is just booze.  I assume it is named after boxer Jack Dempsey, "The Manassa Mauler."  In the general vicinity of the "Earthquake" and "Bunny Hug," compared to those potent concoctions, the Dempsey Cocktail is actually fairly enjoyable.  There's an almost "holiday" spiciness from the combination of flavors that I didn't expect.

However, unless you want to be hugging the canvas later in the evening, I don't recommend over indulging on Dempsey Cocktails.

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What if you added two more dashes of grenadine and served this on the rocks? Looks like it might do a little better, being in the old-fashioned-esque category, though with the interesting twist of splitting the difference in booze.

-Andy
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#590 David Santucci

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 12:19 PM

...I endorse both of Zwack's products from Hungary: Pescetes and Kecskemeti Barack palinka.

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any chance you've compared the two head-to-head and can give us a little idea as to how they differ?

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No, sorry. I had the Kecskemeti a long time ago in a bar and remember it being great. I've only found the Pescetes in stores, though, so that is the one I have at home.

#591 eje

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 10:24 AM

re: Dempsey

What if you added two more dashes of grenadine and served this on the rocks? Looks like it might do a little better, being in the old-fashioned-esque category, though with the interesting twist of splitting the difference in booze.


I suppose that is true. I hadn't really thought of it that way. It also calls for Calvados not "Calvados or Apple Brandy," so that might be a big thing in the flavor profile of this cocktail. I really was amazed at the different flavor profiles of Calvados and American Apple Brandies. They really are completely different animals. Though, just a plain Apple Brandy or Calvados Old-Fashioned Cocktail would be perfectly fine with me.

Posted Image

Depth Charge Cocktail

2 Dashes Absinthe. (Verte de Fougerolles)
1/2 Glass Kina Lillet. (Generous 1 oz Cocchi Americano)
1/2 Glass Dry Gin. (Generous 1 oz Junipero Gin)

Shake (Stir - eje) well and strain into cocktail glass. Squeeze orange peel on top.

This is the first time I've used the Cocchi Americano in a Kina Lillet cocktail and not been sure if I enjoyed it.

Something about this combination just didn't quite work for me.

Especially odd, considering how much I enjoyed the very similar Deep Sea Cocktail.
---
Erik Ellestad
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#592 eje

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Posted 20 October 2007 - 11:53 PM

Posted Image

Depth Charge Brandy Cocktail (6 People)

Carefully shake together 2 1/2 glasses of Brandy, and the same amount of Calvados to which has been added 2 dessertspoonsful of Grenadine and 4 of Lemon Juice.

Adapted For 1.

Generous 1 oz of Maison Surrenne Petite Champagne Cognac
Generous 1 oz Clear Creek Apple Brandy
Teaspoon Homemade Grenadine
Juice 1/4 Lemon

Shake and strain into cocktail glass.

The Cognac is really the dominant element here, with the other ingredients playing supporting roles. Really an enjoyable cocktail, being much more spirit forward than the traditional Sidecar or Jack Rose.

I guess I am puzzled as to what it might have to do with the preceding "Depth Charge Cocktail".
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
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#593 eje

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 11:01 AM

Posted Image

Depth Bomb Cocktail

1 Dash Lemon Juice.
4 Dashes Grenadine. (Homemade)
1/2 Calvados or Apple Brandy. (Calvados Roger Groult, Réserve 3 years old)
1/2 Brandy. (Maison Surrenne Petite Champagne Cognc)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Note: Two favourite War-time Cocktails. They owed their inspiration to the activities of the famous M.L. Submarine Chasers during the hostilities.


Ostensibly, this is about the same cocktail as the Depth Charge Brandy (6 People); but, what a world of difference the Calvados makes!

In the Depth Charge Brandy made with the Clear Creek Apple Brandy, the Cognac dominated. In this one, I would be hard pressed to detect the Cognac in the cocktail!
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#594 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 12:23 PM

So you would say that the Clear Creek product is an inappropriate substitute for Calvados then? These do indeed appear to be identical aside from being formulated for a single serving vs. a crowd.
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#595 eje

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Posted 23 October 2007 - 06:59 PM

So you would say that the Clear Creek product is an inappropriate substitute for Calvados then? These do indeed appear to be identical aside from being formulated for a single serving vs. a crowd.

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Boy, my experience with Calvados is so limited, I'm not sure I can say.

So far, I've tried two young Calvados, and both tasted very much like distilled hard cider. All the American Apple Brandies I've tried have had a much more clean apple taste, like an apple Eau-de-Vie or even apple liqueur.

Of the young American Apple Brandies I've tried, the Clear Creek 2 year is the lightest tasting of the bunch.

I liked the Clear Creek in the Dempsey more than the Depth Charge Brandy. It has a slightly spicy flavor that worked well with the lighter flavors of the gin. With the Lemon in the picture, in the Depth Charge Brandy, the Clear Creek seems to get lost. It's not bad; but, the other elements dominate.
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
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#596 eje

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 09:20 AM

Posted Image

Derby Cocktail

2 Dashes Peach Bitters. (Fee's)
2 Sprigs Fresh Mint.
1 Glass Dry Gin. (2 oz Bombay Gin)

Shake well and strain into cocktail glass.

Can you imagine what the bartender would say about you if you ordered this? "Oh, I'll have 2 oz of gin shaken with a couple sprigs of mint and a dash or two of peach bitters." Hell-lo, Alcoholic!

Of course, really, it is no different than the modern "super-extra-dry vodka martini," alcohol-wise, and quite a bit tastier.

Minty, peachy, cold gin. (Yeah, it does need to be really cold.)

Quite refreshing and vaguely medicinal seeming.

Might be good for you, if you have a cold!
---
Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#597 bostonapothecary

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 10:22 AM

do the peach bitters have any nutty qualities to them? i've never got ahold of any...

on sundays (if i miss the fish fry of the night before...), i stop into an italian place i know and have some sunday night bolognese... i always start that dinner off with a small pink gin... stimulates the appetite. need to negotiate for a derby sometime or atleast try adding the mint...
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#598 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 02:06 PM

do the peach bitters have any nutty qualities to them? i've never got ahold of any...

on sundays (if i miss the fish fry of the night before...), i stop into an italian place i know and have some sunday night bolognese... i always start that dinner off with a small pink gin... stimulates the appetite. need to negotiate for a derby sometime or atleast try adding the mint...

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Fee's Peach Bitters are distinctly unlike other bitters I have ever tried (and I have tried most of what is on the market). For one thing, they are not at all bitter, and they are also not terribly peachy. More like peach-flavored Snapple with an almond essence hiding in the background. Fun to play with but not really suitable for normal bitters applications. In this drink I would think the bitterness to balance the sweetness of the bitters (heh) is being provided by the mint stalks from hard shaking.

-Andy
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#599 eje

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 02:23 PM

[...]
In this drink I would think the bitterness to balance the sweetness of the bitters (heh) is being provided by the mint stalks from hard shaking.

-Andy

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Rolling shake with cracked ice, unless you want mint pieces in your teeth.
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Erik Ellestad
If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...
Bernal Heights, SF, CA

#600 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,108 posts
  • Location:New York, New York

Posted 25 October 2007 - 02:25 PM

Why not just double-strain?
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey