354 replies to this topic

[Ling]

I would go for the cake but only if it was dense and moist, and not covered with shortening-based frosting.

[petite tête de chou]

Pie, without a doubt. When I was a little girl I didn't like birthday cakes (home-made or store-bought) so my mother would always make sure that I got a berry pie. Berry pies are my hands down favorite. I'm not fond of apple pie, though. Something about the texture. Smells good, though.

[tsquare]

Cake.

Unlike a cakewalk, with pies they throw them for comic relief and plain meaness. The value just isn't there if they are so willing to waste them.

BTW, I recently has a lovely slice of key lime CAKE. Layers of thin white cake sandwiched with creamy key lime cream. You can have your pie and cake too.

[CaliPoutine]

Always Cake!! Especially Coconut or German Chocolate.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

I don't think it's fair to ask one to choose. With the exception of birthday cake, kids' party cakes, and coconut cake with cranberry filling and marshmallow frosting, I'd have to say

Pie. lard in the crust, loaded with chocolate or cheese or eggs or pudding or fruit or savories, dusted with sugar on top. Much more fun to show off a pie.

Yeah. Pie.

[Angela Alaimo]

Pie! Pie! Pie!

P-lease can

I-have som

E-more Pie!

[Terrasanct]

Pie. There are a lot of good cakes out there, and some of them have the advantage of chocolate, but I was a cake decorator for years...and got tired of cake. Especially since most places don't know how to make a frosting that won't send you into immediate diabetic coma.

My relationship with pie is more complicated. I never liked pie. I never made pie. I have five children, and at least two of them made passable pies, so I never learned. I don't understand "easy as pie" because it isn't. Cake seemed much easier, unless I was decorating one for a wedding.

After all of my pie-making kids grew up I decided to end my stand-off with pie. If I was going to make pie, I'd have to learn how to make the best pie ever. So I did. I experimented with every kind of pie crust recipe until I got it just right. It took a bit longer for the apple pie filling, but I finally perfected that, too. Making the perfect pie involved making my own lard, of course.

When my husband and I go for a drive, we often end up at a local cafe in the middle of nowhere (and in Montana there's a LOT of nowhere) and we have to have pie. Here in this part of the country, pie is an integral part of the farm diet, and there are some old ladies who really know their stuff. My goal is to try all of the places listed in Montana magazine a few years ago as the best pie places in Montana. My husband is a native Montanan, and he likes every piece of pie he eats. I don't think he understands my need to critique.

[Mayhaw Man]

I don't think it's fair to ask one to choose.   

Life is full of tough choices. Buck up and get with the program.

[christine007]

PIE!
pecan pie, coconut cream, banana cream, cherry, pumpkin, blueberry,
gotta be pie.

[Toliver]

Cake, please, with a side of ice cream.
Cake, especially birthday cake, when you take that first bite and the creme brulee smell of just-blown-out birthday candles still lingers in the air and changes that first bite into a memory that will linger, as well.

Regarding pie, I found this in the "Dinner!" discussion, a small exchange between Adam Balic and jinmyo a few years ago:

Adam: I'm so glad you had pie. Last night I was reading through my first edition of Jane Grigson's "Good Things" (found in small bookshop for a few quid = well chuffed). The is an entire section on PIE. Opening sentence "Most of us have a weakness for (meat) pie. Or should I say for a platonic ideal of (meat) pies?".Mmmm Platonic Pie, so full of Plato goodness.
Did you make your own Lobster oil? Recipe sounds V. good, but is it Platonic pie?

jinmyo:  What is not Pie? Whatever is enclosed between the crusts of earth and sky is surely Pie.
Pie can be a tart, a dumpling, a sandwich. But a sandwich (as I was telling Bux re Croque Monsiuer) is not Pie.
Pie is the mutual enfolding of absolute and relative, context and content.
What is, is Pie.
Yes, my own lobster oil. Shells. So a kind of pie as well.

[sanrensho]

A resounding vote for cake. Cake, cake, cake, cake. I crave it most days and it helps me from stuffing my face with candy or straight-on chocolate. Not to dump on pie, but you have way more creative options with cake.

Cake, cake, cake. I think about it, read about it, sometimes ponder it before drifting off into sleep. Definitely cake.

[Mayhaw Man]

Pie, because there's a lot more different types of pie that I can think of than there are cakes. 

Pie, because lots of cakes are actually called pie (Boston Cream Pie, e.g.). 

Pie, because there's no better convenience store snack than a fried pie (ok, a Moon Pie is also good, but again, it's a "pie"). 

Pie, because I'm really, really good at making them. 

Pie, because they named a number after it.  

Pie, because it's what the diner waitresses with the stacked hairdos who call me "hun" and "shug" serve me. 

Pie, because as the seasons change, so do the pies.


But cake ain't too bad, either.

Et tu, Shug? Et tu?

[avocado]

I'm not one to turn down ANY food really, neither cake nor pie being any sort of exception.
That said, cooked fruit is not my favorite texture- pulpy mush just doesn't do it for me. While I do like a nice slice of banana or coconut cream, the creamy and chocolatey pies just aren't good enough or plentiful enough for me to place myself in the pie camp.
So cake it is! With frosting, please. I'll take it however you want to give it to me. I can't think of a variety of cake that I don't like. And I agree with whoever said the the best cake is the dense, sticky kind, approaching brownie-like. I'm salivating.

You know, I read once that people with a sweet tooth can be divided into two categories: sugar and fat. I'm fat, without a doubt.

[mizducky]

After due consideration, I have to come down on the side of pie. A truly great cake is a wonderful thing, but I find a truly great pie trumps it in my mind. It's the piecrust. A perfect crust is a thing of beauty (and something I've yet to achieve on my own, by the way). No cake frosting or topping on the planet has yet been devised that can hold a candle to a perfect pie crust.

Yes, there are both pie abominations (ready-made pudding fillings, etc.) and cake abominations (supermarket sheet slabs troweled over with a ton of Dayglo-tinted Crisco). Both of these culinary sins are sideshows, and not to be given any more energy than they've already sucked away from their manufacturers' culinary karma.

And as for the rest? I confess that I find the basic cake texture ... well ... boring. There. I've said it. Even in cakes that are admittedly excellent, I just find myself viewing the actual cake part as at best merely a vehicle for the fillings and frostings and such. Whereas a really good pie filling, with all its protean variations, never fails to hold my attention. Especially since a lot of pie fillings bear more than a passing resemblance to cake-filling layers--but whereas in a cake you would only get a narrow shmear of said filling, in a pie you get a huge heapin' helping of it, with chunks of fruit and everything.

So--all other things being equal, I like a pie's outsides better, I like its insides better, I like everything about it better. So nu, what's not to love?

Admittedly, cake has traditionally featured more chocolate than pie has, and some pie-ish attempts at chocolate have understandably earned a bad rep (oh, those wretched pudding pies). But those IMO are merely errors in execution. There is no reason in the universe why a chocolate pie cannot be a sublime experience.

And finally, just two little words: "fried pie."

I rest my case.

P.S. And as a bonus round, may I suggest that pies can go into realms of savory (quiche, meat pies, etc.) where cakes dare not follow. Steak and kidney cake, anyone?

[annanstee]

Most of the time I would pick pie, cause I have had more great pie than great cake (my mum's pastry is the bomb)... but if I could imagine the absolute platonic ideal of each- the perfect cake and the perfect pie- I would probably take the cake. So cake. But only the best damn cake I could imagine. With no shortening in the icing.

Edited by annanstee, 26 April 2006 - 12:28 PM.

[Verjuice]

Cake, for sure.

I'm not a huge fan of fruit based desserts; any fruit that's worth turning into pie is better eaten raw in the first place. We get so few decent peaches and berries out here that it would be heresy to cook their essence out them. I saw raspeberries and rhubarb in the store the other day for the first time in a year. Made jam. Still beats pie.

I must add, however, that my favorite desserts include the like of sticky toffee pudding, cheesecake, tarte tatin and flourless chocolate cakes/tortes. Since I make all of these in a springform pan, I am electing them as honorary cakes for the sake of this thread.

[*Deborah*]

With the exception of pecan pie, I have to go with cake. Probably because I can make a good one myself. I suck at pastry, basically, and will never achieve my grandmother's strawberry-rhubarb nirvana. So while I love to eat a nice slice of cherry pie in a diner, cake is what really floats my boat.

But yeah, I've never met a pecan cake that could go head-to-head with a pecan pie, even my lame rendition.

Cake, the varieties! the simple, one pan, one layer white cake out of Fannie Farmer, the angel-food, the devil's food, the seven-layer stratospheric wonders of chemistry and engineering...

Anything you can fill a pie with, almost, you can insert between layers of cake, except, AFAIK, the filling of a pecan pie. Or is that the caramel of which you speak, Brooks?

[eJulia]

If Maymaw Man agrees with Verjuice that CheeseCAKE is indeed an honorary CAKE, then count me in for Cake.

Any kind of cheesecake - from the best well-made NY style to the many glorious flavor variants. I even like the no-bake kind (head hung in shame...)

Any frozen concoction or custard (i.e. creme brulee) would be a close second.

You must let us know where to find the results once your research is complete!

Julia

[FabulousFoodBabe]

I don't think it's fair to ask one to choose.   

Life is full of tough choices. Buck up and get with the program.

A Culinary Dr. Phil among us!

[mizducky]

If Maymaw Man agrees with Verjuice that CheeseCAKE is indeed an honorary CAKE, then count me in for Cake.

Ah! But is cheesecake, despite the name, really a "cake"? And not a custard pie under an erroneous name?

I present the following bit of anecdotal evidence:

SCENE 2
The Kitchen Table
GUEST: The King (Elvis)

[ALTON BROWN]: I'd be willing to bet that 9 out of 10 cheesecake failures stem from the fact that cooks expect cheesecake to act like cake. Why wouldn't they? After all it is cheese-cake. But suppose that we could ask for an impartial analysis from someone who'd never even heard of cheesecake. Say, for instance an alien making his first trip to planet earth. [camera pans to Elvis] That does explain a few things, doesn't it?

AB: Um, King. What's that?
TK: That there is pie.

    Pie. See what I mean?

AB: What kind of pie would you say?
TK: Huunh. That would require further analysis.
AB: Well, please be my guest.
TK: [takes pie and we hear slurping, burping sounds as if pie is eaten in one bite]
    Seeing as how the structural matrix is composed of egg proteins I'd say that's a
    [sniff] custard pie.

AB: Custard pie. Thank you. Thank you very much.
TK: [vanishes]

--From "Good Eats" episode "The Trouble With Cheesecake," full transcript here.

As a cheese "cake" fan, I am more than happy to agree with Alton and "The King" that this confection more properly belongs to the pie family.

[ErinM]

I agree with Julia, if cheesecake is included as cake, then it's cake for me.


Although, really, between cake and pie as we know it, I find cake too sweet and pie, sometimes, not sweet enough.

But, cake. Yeah. Cake. Especially cake from Karen the Cake Lady.

[therese]

Cheesecake is neither cake nor pie, so should be excluded.

And Boston cream pie is also obviously really cake, so it should also be excluded.

[Mayhaw Man]

Cheesecake-pie, sort of.

Boston Cream Pie-cake, sort of. Gooey mess-surely.

[gfron1]

Your original story proves my theory and thus my answer! Pie is a social dessert, however, cake is for me.

Pie is rarely a dessert best enjoyed by one's self. Only in the group setting can a pie achieve its perfection, that moment when the crust crumbles onto the fork in flaky grandiosity...the fruit (or pudding) oozing lustfully onto the plate...the melted ice cream surrounding its steaming fruit filling. These are moments best shared with old friends and family.

[snowangel]

No question about it. Pie. It makes a great dessert, and an even better breakfast. Also much better eaten than cake in ones skivvies over the kitchen sink.

Pie all the way. In fact, my kids share my love of pie. They'd much rather have a birthday pie than cake.

In fact, when we cleaned out my grandmother's house after she died, there were only three things I wanted: her pie tins, her copy of the Farm Journal Complete Pie Cookbook and her Christmas Cactus (unrelated, but a gift to her on her wedding day from her grandmother).

Pie. Sweet or savory. In fact, I have included several pie recipes (courtesy of my grandmother's recipe box) in Recipe Gullet!

[Mayhaw Man]

  Also much better eaten than cake in ones skivvies over the kitchen sink.

O Cold Woman of the Northcountry,

First of all, I've seen you in your skivvies on your blog, but I don't believe there was any cake involved-though cheesecake, maybe.

Secondly, there is nothing better for breakfast than toasted poundcake with a bit of butter melted into it. Delicious.

Of course, you would have to have some poundcake around, and you pie people will never be able to experience this bliss for yourselves. It's all very sad.

[TheFoodTutor]

Cheesecake is neither cake nor pie, so should be excluded.

See, now you're just weaselling to back up your original answer, because you've re-thought the whole issue, and a whole, knotty bunch of outliers have reared their ugly, yet delicious, heads. Cheesecake is clearly pie, and how could you disagree with Alton Brown, anyway? You two are practically the same person.

My answer is pie. Pie and cobblers, crumbles and Brown Betties. Pie simply has more diversity of texture and flavor than cake, with a touch of salt and flakiness in the crust, tang in the fruit or other types of filling, a possibly different top-crust texture, plus an accompaniment like whipped cream or ice cream, adding a hot/cold contrast to all the other salty/sweet/crunchy/gooey things going on. So many possibilities in pie, and now that it's finally warm, it's time for Key Lime. Key Lime knocks just about every other dessert out of the ring within the first round or two.

My mother-in-law, a very Southern woman, preferred cake. She told me several stories about how, when she was pregnant, she was told that pregnant women could not have cake (?), and as a result, she craved cake for 9 months straight and didn't eat it. I never understood this, because I don't understand what ingredient in cake would make it unallowable, nor do I understand why any pregnant woman would allow other people to tell her she could not eat cake. If I were pregnant, I'd probably eat 3 slices of cake at every meal. As my appetizer.

But I'm not generally that fond of cake. If I really wanted some cake right now, I'd probably want one of these. I made this one a number of times, after seeing the recipe in the newspaper, and now that I'd know to use better-quality chocolate, like Scharffenberger, I think it would be smashing with some homemade ice cream.

And why don't fudge and cookies get their say in this whole mess?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Pie-in-the-face is still comedy gold ... but Marie Antoinette said "let them eat cake." ... I really love a gooey pecan pie brimming with pecans ... but a buttery cake which is light as a feather is so divine ... but then there is the "a la mode" issue ... and cupcakes can never be cup pies ...

a vote for pie still would be my choice .. with a buttery crust and sweet fruit or cream filling ...

Of course The Food Tutor got it just right when she said:

Pie simply has more diversity of texture and flavor than cake, with a touch of salt and flakiness in the crust, tang in the fruit or other types of filling, a possibly different top-crust texture, plus an accompaniment like whipped cream or ice cream, adding a hot/cold contrast to all the other salty/sweet/crunchy/gooey things going on.

Thank you for understanding the entire issue and focusing upon the most salient features, Julia!

[jgm]

That does it. I can't stand it! This weekend I am going to make my husband take me to the Amish restaurant about 30 miles away, so that I can have a slice of pie and not have to resort to making one. Not that I mind, but my thighs don't need a whole pie.

Okay, maybe I'll have a slice on Saturday night and bring home a slice for Sunday. That way I can have chocolate and coconut cream.

I could get a third piece and take it in my lunch on Monday. That way, I could add lemon. It would be kinda iffy by then, but still edible.

This thread is making me crazy! And hungry.

[Parmhero]

Regarding cheesecake, if its name is cake, it's cake.

Especially the dry Italian ricotta ones.

Along the same lines: Is coffee cake cake?

(A delightful pecan ring from William Greenberg Jr.'s on Madison Ave.)