29 replies to this topic

[cherimoya]

I just succumbed to the hype and bought a purple clay tea pot. My tea still tastes the same Does anyone else use a purple clay tea pot?

[JasonTrue]

Are you referring to a Yixing clay teapot?

There are a bunch of contributing factors to the flavor of tea, and the teapot plays a part, but the quality of the tea and the brewing technique are more important.

The advantages of Yixing ware are more about its ability to retain heat (compared to porcelain) than anything else, though some people praise the low shrinkage of the clay during firing. I like both tetsubin and yixing ware for the heat retention, and Hagi ware (from Japan) when it comes to glazed earthenware. Heat retention does affect the quality of brewing; for yixing ware, you will probably want to pour hot water into an empty pot to warm it up before actually infusing the tea.

If you have a small Yixing pot you may also be able to improve the aroma of your tea assuming you use a relatively high ratio of tea to water, and short infusions, but for the most part, the result can be accomplished with a small gaiwan, porcelain or otherwise.

The other perceived benefit comes from the long term "seasoning" of the pot as some molecules of tea are apparently absorbed into the very porous clay, but you wouldn't notice that immediately, whether it improves the taste or not.

The real benefit of having nice teaware is that good teaware improves your overall sensory experience. The visual appeal of the pot and your servingware has a real impact on your perception of the flavor of the tea, and on the sense memories triggered while you're drinking the tea.

This is part of the reason why Japanese food tastes better when presented carefully on attractive, appropriate tableware, and at the other extreme, why blind taste tests for Cola don't have much affect on sales; people's perception of flavor is affected by their visual experience, including brand visuals, and what memories and thoughts that triggers.

[mikepetro]

I just succumbed to the hype and bought a purple clay tea pot.  My tea still tastes the same  Does anyone else use a purple clay tea pot?

I own several Yixing pots (a few of them can be seen here My Tea Service) and I find that it more of a cultural attraction than anything else. The heat properties are supposed to be supperior however it more art in my mind. Will it make you tea taste better today, probably not, but it is said that if you brew ONLY the same type of tea in the pot it will develop a seasoning and character of it's own.

________
Mike Petro
Pu-erh, A Westerner's Quest

[His Nibs]

It takes some years for the seasoning to take place. One word of advice is to brew the same type of tea in a particular pot. Oolongs are usually recommended.

[racheld]

I own several Yixing pots (a few of them can be seen here My Tea Service) and I find that it more of a cultural attraction than anything else.
Mike Petro
Pu-erh, A Westerner's Quest

This is certainly an attraction---I've spent the last several hundred breaths admiring and reading. This is just the most beautiful thing I've see in many a long while.

Your corner is so smoooooth and contemplative, with all the green promise of soft breezes, the carefully-arranged utensils and the table's far-seeing landscape.

The use of breaths for measuring steeping time sets the stage for a quiet, relaxing moment or hour with a calming cup, and the description is soothing, before the first drop is poured. What is in the little stoppered cruet? And is there a little fish-companion in the vase?

I've never seen a more beautiful tea-tray---you seem to have harnessed a glossy wolf to hold your treasures and do your bidding. Amazing.

[mikepetro]

What is in the little stoppered cruet?  And is there a little fish-companion in the vase?

I've never seen a more beautiful tea-tray---you seem to have harnessed a glossy wolf to hold your treasures and do your bidding.  Amazing.

Thanks for the kudos. The cruet is a good balsamic vinegar, not for tea but for snacks. Yes there is a Beta (Siamese Fighting Fish) in the vase. The plant and the fish form a sort of symbiotic relatonship. The waste from the fish is food for the plant, feed the fish regularly and the plant thrives too.

Cheers,

Edited by mikepetro, 15 November 2006 - 02:02 PM.

[haresfur]

I just succumbed to the hype and bought a purple clay tea pot.  My tea still tastes the same  Does anyone else use a purple clay tea pot?

I think you have it backwards - the tea enhances one's enjoyment of the fine pottery - but I love ceramics.

Seriously, it is the whole experience - kind of like a restaurant with good service and good food. I'm not compulsive about it or anything (I use a lot of tea bags) but using a nice tea pot or drinking out of the perfect (for you) mug is satisfying.

The Yixing teapots do age. A friend pointed out how a well used one had developed a softer surface sheen. This may well affect the flavor. Even glazed pots are said to get better as they develop a thick tea-stain. I think this would be more pronounced with an unglazed stoneware. So give it time and enjoy your teapot.

[Richard Kilgore]

Wholemeal Crank asked this question in another topic:

How can I tell if my little clay teapot is Yixing ware?

[Wholemeal Crank]

Ok, here is the pot in question, profile

http://www.flickr.co...nix/3806243025/

bottom stamp

http://www.flickr.co...nix/3807062878/

and the box that it was put in after I picked it off the shelf--no idea if this is the original pot or not

http://www.flickr.co...nix/3806246481/

I paid just $20 for it. It was one of the simplest designs available. And it makes wonderful tea.

[Richard Kilgore]

And where did you buy it?

[Wholemeal Crank]

And where did you buy it?

Wing Hop Fung, a tea/herb/grocery in LA chinatown.

<http://www.winghopfung.com/>

[Richard Kilgore]

Yes, I know Wing Hop Fung. I have bought a few tea canisters on their website. Do they have more tea and tea-things in the store than on the site, as most b&m stores with a website do?

It is incredibly difficult to say whether a clay pot is actually made of any of the Yixing clays, especially without being able to see and touch it. There are a lot of fakes using other clays, and other good clays passed off as Yixing because they have the name and get a better price. But for $20, yours may well be an inexpensive Yixing, slip cast or made on a wheel, rather than half hand made using a mold (but even the latter is possible). I have several in that price range and they are perfectly suitable for brewing Chinese Oolongs and Pu-erhs. You would have to spend two or three times that much to do better.

So, what's the capacity of your pot?

[Wholemeal Crank]

Yes, I know Wing Hop Fung. I have bought a few tea canisters on their website. Do they have more tea and tea-things in the store than on the site, as most b&m stores with a website do?

They have a tea tasting are with about 50 different teas in bulk, and that might be an underestimate, plus many tinned teas, pu-erh cakes in plain wraps and fancy packages, and a large selection of teaware--relatively few gaiwans in simple styles, quite inexpensive, and lots and lots of the small pots like mine, though most were more decorated, may fancier presentation sets and lots of japanese cast iron pots, and more. It is quite amazing.

And my little pot holds about 160 mL.

[Wholemeal Crank]

Lot of clicks for what should be a simple job, but here is the pot in question:







The box--again, not sure if that is specific to this pot or not--says in english 'association of ceramic arts masters' and 'traditional family of ceramic arts'.

Edited by Wholemeal Crank, 11 August 2009 - 07:49 AM.

[Wholemeal Crank]

I am loving the little pot just posted above, and understand that traditionally these are kept one per type of tea.

To what level of detail do most of you try to go with that--

would the same teapot for green and white teas be stretching it too far?

what about green/white vs yellow teas?

and should the light Taiwain oolong we just tasted be ok in the same pot as some basic anxi ti kuan yin?

green tea with green tea with jasmine?

Just curious.

And then, how do you keep track of which pot is which?

I can easily see keeping track of 'plain pot with dots on the spout' is for oolong, 'decorated pot with dragon on side' is for pu-erh, but beyond that, they might need to be labelled or a photo key posted inside a cabinet to keep track of them.

Edited by Wholemeal Crank, 11 August 2009 - 08:06 AM.

[Richard Kilgore]

I am loving the little pot just posted above, and understand that traditionally these are kept one per type of tea.

To what level of detail do most of you try to go with that--

I have enough Yixing pots and other brewing vessels to divide things up quite a bit, but I think the basic divisions for Yixings are one each for shu,  young sheng and aged sheng; one for Oolongs ( you could have two - one for lighter and one for darker); one for red teas. While there are all sorts f theories about matching clay and pot shape to a particular category of tea, I have found that it's a matter of trying different teas in a pot to see what one shows the most improvement over brewing it in a gaiwan. The more you brew, the clearer and fuzzier all this gets. Of course, many people would say just get one for pu-erh and one for Oolong and be done with it. And that's not unreasonable either.

would the same teapot for green and white teas be stretching it too far?

what about green/white vs yellow teas?

In general, it's better not to brew green teas in a Yixing, because if you accidentally over-brew the tea will become bitter and that's what will be absorbed into the clay. Better to use a gaiwan or your glass teapot. There are Yixings that are okay with white teas, but not many and I don't know how to identify one that would work; I rely on tea pot merchants I trust for that kind of advice. For all three I would stick to a gaiwan or a glass pot.

and should the light Taiwain oolong we just tasted be ok in the same pot as some basic anxi ti kuan yin?

I think so. I had been thinking about trying it in a Yixing that I have dedicated to greener TGYs.

green tea with green tea with jasmine?

Again - gaiwan or glass pot. I suspect the jasmine will cling to any clay.

Just curious.

And then, how do you keep track of which pot is which?

I can easily see keeping track of 'plain pot with dots on the spout' is for oolong, 'decorated pot with dragon on side' is for pu-erh, but beyond that, they might need to be labelled or a photo key posted inside a cabinet to keep track of them.

A photo posted is a clever idea. I may do that, but so far I have placed a little card next to each pot. This really has been helpful only for those I don't use regularly. And things can get confusing anyway, because I continue to try new teas on old pots to see if there is a better match. In fact, I found a better match for Dan Congs just the other day, in the form of a Yixing that I had been using for sheng pu-erh.

I also wanted to mention that you did well selecting a simple shape Yixing. The fancier ones are interesting but typically made of the lower grade Yixing clays. The complex designs are more likely to break by the time they come out of the kiln and potters do not want to sacrifice the scarce quality clays that are valued for tea making. The fancy designs are usually meant for display, although any number of tea merchants sell them anyway.

[Wholemeal Crank]

good point about the bitterness of green teas and unglazed pots--I was pretty sure that would be the answer for the jasmine, but not about the greens in general.

For work I will stick to my glass pot(s), as simplest and most practical.

But may play with some more simple yixings for pus and oolongs at home. It will add some fun to my next trip to the tea shop.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I'm in London for a conference and stumbled upon a shop called Dao in the Greenwich Market with a lovely selection of Chinese teaware, particularly gaiwan and Yixing teapots (they play a bit off the connection between the Cutty Sark, which is just around the corner, and the history of the English tea trade with China). I was actually planning to come back to New York with a proper English teapot, but I didn't know when I'd again see such a nice selection of Yixing ware, so I bought a Yixing teapot, which I think I'll dedicate to oolongs. I only brought a film camera with me, so I can't post a photo at the moment, but I'll make some digital photos when I get back to New York.

[Richard Kilgore]

Congratulations on your teapot, David. I'm always interested in seeing pics of Yixings and will look forward to seeing them.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Here's my new yixing pot, about 300ml. The owner of the shop explained that they generally came in four basic colors, and this color is fired at a higher temperature than some of the other clays. The text, she said, is the Heart Sutra.



The inside perforated where the spout attaches.



Here is the maker's stamp on the inside of the lid, also showing the airhole in the lid.



And this is the maker's stamp on the bottom of the pot.

The shop had a selection of around 40 or 50 yixing pots and tea sets with matching cups on display in various designs, colors, and sizes as well as other Chinese teaware. They don't have a full website yet, but you can find their contact information at http://www.daolondon.co.uk/

Edited by David A. Goldfarb, 29 September 2009 - 06:42 AM.

[Richard Kilgore]

Are you doing anything to season your new Yixing, David?

[David A. Goldfarb]

Yes, the recommendation from the shop was first to fill it with boiling water and to pour boiling water over it, letting it sit for about a half hour, and to do this three times. Then to season they recommended to brew three pots of strong tea of the type to be dedicated to that pot using enough tea that the leaves would fill the pot, each time letting the pot sit until cool, and generally not cleaning the pot with a brush or with soap either during seasoning or afterward. I've done that using the Imperial Gold China Oolong from McNulty's in Manhattan, and I've made a few pots of the same tea in it since, and I've been very pleased with it.

[LuckyGirl]

Richard,

You mentioned in a post on this thread that there are a lot of fake Yixing pots made from clays passed of as Yixing and to buy your Yixing pot from a source you trust.

Can you recommend a few sources for Yixing pots?

I have already checked out the pots at Tea Source since I was on their site reading about the tea you had today. Are they a reliable source for pots as well as tea?

TIA,

Diane

[nakji]

And if I can add to that, what is a reasonable price to expect to pay for a real Yi Xing pot?

[Richard Kilgore]

Richard,You mentioned in a post on this thread that there are a lot of fake Yixing pots made from clays passed of as Yixing and to buy your Yixing pot from a source you trust. Can you recommend a few sources for Yixing pots? I have already checked out the pots at Tea Source since I was on their site reading about the tea you had today. Are they a reliable source for pots as well as tea?TIA,Diane

And if I can add to that, what is a reasonable price to expect to pay for a real Yi Xing pot?

I have not bought a Yixing from Tea Source, but would not be interested in those I see on their site. The clays do not look good for brewing tea to me. This is not just Tea Source - few tea merchants know much of anything about Yixing pots and often feature the more decorative ones because they are cool looking and people are more attracted to them than the simple, plain looking traditional ones. One problem is that the decorative ones are much, much more likely to be made of lower grade clay because many designs require a lot of clay and the breakage rate on these fancy ones can be high. Potters don't want to sacrifice their good clays this way. So it's best to think of the artistic ones as display pieces.

Buying a Yixing without seeing and touching it in person is tricky. You can buy a useable Yixing teapot for as little as $12 plus shipping. This is modern Zisha clay of good enough quality to brew tea. If you are brewing gong fu cha for one or two people, I suggest one of about 90 - 100 ml as optimal, but no larger than 150 ml, which could serve as many as four people. Simple, traditional styles. No cute decoration. There is good reasons for not spending more than, say, $50 on your first two or three Yixings. It's a learning experience and we all pay some dues. Those dues are cheaper at $12 - $50 than at several hundred.

I have had the good fortune to see in person hundreds of Yixing tea pots of awful ($4) to good to very good quality since one of the largest importers of Yixings is here in Dallas. Robert Bo at Chinese Teapot Gallery on eBay. There is not anything in his eBay store I can recommend right now, but he should have a lot more stock in later this year or early next year. Don't consider anything in his store less than $12 and only traditional, simple styles. No appliqué, no open work. When you see something you like in the store, just email him and tell him you want a Yixing for brewing tea, not as a decoration, and ask if it has good clay for brewing. Ask for alternate suggestions in the 90 - 150 ml range.

Scott Wilson at Yunnan Sourcing on eBay is another tea merchant I can recommend for inexpensive Yixings in the $12 - $50 range. Again, simple styles in the 90 - 150 ml range. People almost always start larger and end up later with smaller (100 ml or less) pots. Scott is not a Yixing expert and the clays used in the pots he has listed may or may not be accurate, but regardless they are good clays and his prices are fair.

Older Yixings made of better clays that are "extinct" (no longer mined) usually start in the hundreds of dollars, go into the many thousands and are another subject entirely. And are not a reasonable place for most people to start.

All this said, my strong suggestion these days, which I am sure is usually ignored because of some intrinsic appeal of Yixing tea pots, is to forget about Yixings for now and learn to brew Chinese teas with a gaiwan. Spend time learning what teas you like in this neutral vessel that will not appreciably change, impact, improve or negatively alter the aroma and taste of the teas. I didn't do that, of course, but Robert Bo and I probably spent a weeks worth of hours over several months, squatting on the floor of his shop looking through hundreds of pots as he gave me my basic Yixing education. But today, I often try a new tea in a gaiwan before brewing it in a Yixing.

Gaiwan first. Yixing later.

[LuckyGirl]

O.K. Richard, you have convinced me to hold off on purchasing a Yixing pot. I will pick up a gaiwan cup, or two, later this week when I hit the Asian import stores for a few staples. This will allow me to look for and handle yixings in person and get more of a feel for them before I buy one. I was so taken with the whole experience using a small yixing pot and having tea gongfu style over the weekend that I really wanted to continue that method but I can do that with the gaiwan cup.

In the mean time I will keep using my tetsubin which has served me well thus far. It has a nice big basket that almost touches the bottom of the pot so I am able to make smaller brews than what the pot is designed for. There is of course, a lot of "head room" but I don't think that will effect my brewing in a way that makes a big difference. The basket allows the whole leaves plenty of movement though certainly not as much as floating around freely would. If I were brewing a tea with larger leaves or a tea on stems I suppose I would let it float in the pot without the basket but for now the basket has been fine.

Which leads me to a question. One of the teas I had over the weekend was leaves on stems (an alishan oolong). It was one of the most astringent teas I've had thus far. Wouldn't the stems contibute to that tanniness?

[Wholemeal Crank]

Long time quiet topic.

So....I bought one more of the little 60mL size yixing pots this weekend from Wing Hop Fung, and decided I should season them properly, since I'd done very little with them before besides pouring boiling water in and over them.

I put them all in a large stock pot, two layers with a couple of trivets to separate the layers, lids and pots; filled the the pot to cover with tap water, and brought it to a boil, dropped the heat to lowest I could keep the gas on for an hour or two, then turned off the heat and let them soak overnight.

The next day, there was a little scum visible on the surface of the water, not sure if it was from wax on the pots or something else. A couple of the pots still feel relatively slick on the surface compared to the rest; all are relatively rough inside. The rinse water was a little orangey at first--?clay colored?--but quickly became clear.

They've all but the one been rinsed with boiling water before, and they're drying now, and later this week I was planning to start with tea soaks. Eventually I want to do a couple of comparison tastings of the same tea brewed in my glass teapot, the dedicated newly seasoned yixing, and a gaiwan.

Edited by Wholemeal Crank, 19 April 2010 - 08:19 AM.

[Wholemeal Crank]

Backing up a step: after the pots were dried, there was a white, waxy coating on some of them. I think letting them cool in the water was a mistake, and will reheat, remove and rinse them while hot.

Edited by Wholemeal Crank, 19 April 2010 - 09:10 PM.

[Richard Kilgore]

Yixing pots are not typically coated in wax or anything else More likely it is a non-Yixing clay treated to look attractive to the buyer. How about separating the waxy ones and seasoning the others.

[Richard Kilgore]

I just succumbed to the hype and bought a purple clay tea pot.  My tea still tastes the same  Does anyone else use a purple clay tea pot?

I own several Yixing pots (a few of them can be seen here My Tea Service) and I find that it more of a cultural attraction than anything else. The heat properties are supposed to be supperior however it more art in my mind. Will it make you tea taste better today, probably not, but it is said that if you brew ONLY the same type of tea in the pot it will develop a seasoning and character of it's own.

________
Mike Petro
Pu-erh, A Westerner's Quest

While Yixing pots are of cultural significance and they have been made in a wide range of interesting shapes over the centuries, my experience has been that while the shape of the pot has some practical importance related to the shape of the leaf, the clay used has even more impact on the final result. Matching a pot with the type of tea that brews best with it often takes some experimentation.

I do agree, Mike, that with seasoning and use, a Yixing teapot that is used to brew one type of tea will develop a character of its own. In fact, when I first got one older Yixing, I poured hot water in it after a quick rinse, and the hot water tasted of Oolong. Not just a Yixing legend.