Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Spraying Chocolate: Equipment, Materials, and Techniques

Chocolate

  • Please log in to reply
292 replies to this topic

#91 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 07 January 2009 - 05:29 PM

Did you see this page, too?  FUJI PARTS & ACCESSORIES

View Post

I think hubby's plan is to get the turbine, the extra length of hose and a number 6 tip for latex. I'm going to look at the pressurized gravity feed gun with a number 6 tip.

#92 mostlylana

mostlylana
  • participating member
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Kamloops, BC, Canada

Posted 08 January 2009 - 12:59 AM

My hubby has decided to get the 4 stage quiet version to spray latex paint - so if I decide to get the pressurized gravity feed gun we can share the turbine.

View Post


Kerry that's awesome. Now we can trade gun stories. My hubby isn't handy at all so we're both looking at this spray gun and compressor while scratching our heads. I read the instruction manuals today. The compressor said in bold writing to not use indoors as it might cause your house to explode. Lovely. I called the salesman and he told me not to worry about it. Well - still a little worried. I then talked to 2 compressor using friends and they said the same thing - don't worry. OK, not worried anymore. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who's used a pressurized gun before. I have more gauges than I know what to do with! The instruction manual for the guns is not at all helpful in terms of usage. I'll have to do some online research and see how it all works. Ah the joys of chocolate making!

#93 John DePaula

John DePaula
  • participating member
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 08 January 2009 - 02:44 PM

It occurred to me that it may be very easy to setup a makeshift Chocolate Cabin in a normal kitchen environment.

Like any kitchen, I have a nice powerful hood above the stove. You could construct a "stage" to sit level over the burners - perhaps made out of some left-over kitchen counter material. Then, along the sides and front, you could use those strips of clear plastic like you see being used to keep a cold area cool. Acrylic sheeting or even Styrofoam sheets should work, too.

I think that would work pretty well to keep most of the atomized cocoa butter from getting into your lungs and all over your kitchen.

Anyone see a problem with this setup?

Edited by John DePaula, 08 January 2009 - 02:45 PM.

John DePaula
DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

#94 mostlylana

mostlylana
  • participating member
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Kamloops, BC, Canada

Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:38 PM

It occurred to me that it may be very easy to setup a makeshift Chocolate Cabin in a normal kitchen environment. 

Like any kitchen, I have a nice powerful hood above the stove.  You could construct a "stage" to sit level over the burners - perhaps made out of some left-over kitchen counter material.  Then, along the sides and front, you could use those strips of clear plastic like you see being used to keep a cold area cool.  Acrylic sheeting or even Styrofoam sheets should work, too.

I think that would work pretty well to keep most of the atomized cocoa butter from getting into your lungs and all over your kitchen.

Anyone see a problem with this setup?

View Post


I like that idea - how clever. I was thinking of setting something up on a cart in a little used bathroom and utilizing the fan in there. However I would much rather be in the kitchen! I'll give it some thought and discuss it with some handy people and see what transpires.

#95 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:31 PM

Did I mention that I wanted to bring home one of the defunct baby incubators from work to spray in? It's plexiglass with spots to put your hands in, and you can open and close the top to take things in and out.

My hubby put a stop to it!

I turn on the range hood when I spray pan spray into cake pans, keeps it from getting into my lungs - so I don't see why even something as simple as a big box with the top open to the range hood wouldn't help prevent spray all over the kitchen.

#96 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 10 January 2009 - 03:09 PM

Hubby and I just got back from picking up the Fuji equipment from Toronto. Paul, who owns the company was kind enough to meet us there on a day off. He was delightful! He pulled everything out for us - showed us how to spray, how to adjust the spray pattern, let us listen to the noise made by the turbines. Of course we used water rather than paint or chocolate.

Apparently if you turn the pressure from the turbine way down with a viscous liquid - it sputters and splatters - so that's the first thing I'll play with - see if I can get some nice random splatter in a mold. You can adjust the spray to a small circle which should let you make lines - I don't think anything will allow us to make a fine line in a mold however. You can also adjust the pattern for broader coverage.

I'll be interested to see how much aerosol I get - with water we were getting a lot - but with a more viscous solution this may be minimized. We'll see. Forgot to bring home masks from work - may have to grab some before the experiments begin.

#97 mostlylana

mostlylana
  • participating member
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Kamloops, BC, Canada

Posted 10 January 2009 - 04:56 PM

Hubby and I just got back from picking up the Fuji equipment from Toronto.  Paul, who owns the company was kind enough to meet us there on a day off.  He was delightful!  He pulled everything out for us - showed us how to spray, how to adjust the spray pattern, let us listen to the noise made by the turbines.  Of course we used water rather than paint or chocolate.

Apparently if you turn the pressure from the turbine way down with a viscous liquid - it sputters and splatters - so that's the first thing I'll play with - see if I can get some nice random splatter in a mold.  You can adjust the spray to a small circle which should let you make lines - I don't think anything will allow us to make a fine line in a mold however.  You can also adjust the pattern for broader coverage. 

I'll be interested to see how much aerosol I get - with water we were getting a lot - but with a more viscous solution this may be minimized.  We'll see.  Forgot to bring home masks from work - may have to grab some before the experiments begin.

View Post


I can't wait to see how you do with your gun! I brought my guns into our local tool place to get hose and fittings. They were boggled by the gun - they had never seen one like it - so they kept calling people over "hey Stan, have you ever seen a gun like this?" Between a bunch of them they had it kind of figured out. They were really surprised that no instructions came with it - they thought I should have gotten a DVD. Fortunately they were very knowlegable about guns and compressors in general so they helped me out a lot there. I'm going to call the salesman who sold me the guns on Monday and get him to walk me through it. The saga continues...

#98 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 11 January 2009 - 06:04 PM

I'm in love with this new Fuji spray gun! For the first time airbrushing I finished without coloured hair or blowing blue snot. Minimal aerosol, and can be made less by turning down the volume of air.

I made up chocolate with 30% extra cocoa butter, then used it to spray a frozen boot. I screwed up a bit - the chocolate was supposed to be 50º C when I sprayed it - but it was around 30º. I think the suede look would have been better with the temperature right. And of course it doesn't help that I've now got finger prints on it.

Posted Image

I then took the same mixture, turned the air pressure right down until the chocolate sputtered out of the needle - perfect splatter! It was a simple matter to dump out what was left in the container - wipe with a paper towel - heat with the heat gun - wipe once more - then blow the air through until no more colour came out of the needle. Then I added a coloured cocoa butter and sprayed.

Posted Image

This gun will not allow you to do a thin line (but I don't think any spray gun or airbrush will). The unit we got is the Q4 turbine - Q for quiet - it still makes a fair amount of noise, but it's not at the ear splitting frequencies of my compressor, so it's a whole lot easier to tolerate. I think the extra $200 for the quieter turbine is money well spent. I'm going to keep the 6 foot flexible hose and the attachment with the air control valve in my stuff - and let hubby get another one - because it was covered in coloured cocoa butter fingerprints when I was done. This way I don't have to worry about food safety issues because we are sharing the turbine.

#99 mrose

mrose
  • participating member
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Franklin, WI

Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:05 PM

I can't quite seem to find which gun you purchased?
Mark
www.roseconfections.com

#100 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:15 PM

I can't quite seem to find which gun you purchased?

View Post

Here is my new baby.The GT-X2.

Oh yeah, the question was raised earlier about warm air from the turbine. I didn't find it warm at all and the colours I sprayed dried quickly.

Edited by Kerry Beal, 11 January 2009 - 07:19 PM.


#101 Serj

Serj
  • participating member
  • 69 posts
  • Location:Chicago, IL

Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:39 PM

Going back to spraying cabinets---

At work I have discovered speed rack covers as an excellent make-shift alternative. Imagine a very large garbage bag. Cut off the end that is sealed and then cut down one side of the bag, resulting in a very large plastic square. Tape to the wall above a work surface (i prefer in a corner), so that it covers both the work surface, the top of the area below the work surface, and the wall area above the work surface. Spray away. When you're done, roll it up and throw it away. Very little cleaning required. Perhaps not the most cost effective way of doing it, but hey, it works well.

#102 mrose

mrose
  • participating member
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Franklin, WI

Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:30 PM

I can't quite seem to find which gun you purchased?

View Post

Here is my new baby.The GT-X2.

Oh yeah, the question was raised earlier about warm air from the turbine. I didn't find it warm at all and the colours I sprayed dried quickly.

View Post


Kerry

You certainly get all the neat toys to play with.
Mark
www.roseconfections.com

#103 cmflick

cmflick
  • participating member
  • 202 posts
  • Location:Old Saybrook, CT

Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:55 PM

I have a couple of questions about spraying chocolate and/or cocoa butter and temper. Does the cocoa butter that you mix with chcolate for spraying need to be tempered? I have cocoa butter that I bought from a cosmetic supply company (labeled food grade), that I don't think is tempered. I also noticed that in a post above, Kerry said that she wanted her chocolate/cocoa butter mix to spray to be at 50C, which is obviously not going to be tempered. Does this mean that you don't need to have tempered chocolate or cocoa butter to spray?

I got my first airbrush last month and having been playing around with spraying colored cocoa butters. I've been careful about not overheating the cocoa butters as I didn't want to get them out of temper. This has lead to annoying clogging of the airbrush. Do I really need to worry about the temper of the cocoa butters?

#104 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 12 January 2009 - 03:51 PM

I have a couple of questions about spraying chocolate and/or cocoa butter and temper.  Does the cocoa butter that you mix with chcolate for spraying need to be tempered?  I have cocoa butter that I bought from a cosmetic supply company (labeled food grade), that I don't think is tempered.  I  also noticed that in a post above, Kerry said that she wanted her chocolate/cocoa butter mix to spray to be at 50C, which is obviously not going to be tempered.  Does this mean that  you don't need to have tempered chocolate or cocoa butter to spray? 

I got my first airbrush last month and having been playing around with spraying colored cocoa butters.  I've been careful about not overheating the cocoa butters as I didn't want to get them out of temper.  This has lead to annoying clogging of the airbrush.  Do I really need to worry about the temper of the cocoa butters?

View Post

I know this issue has been raised before. I never bother to temper, just heat then cool to the thickness I like the look of (especially for screen printing). Most times I'm probably around 30º or so when I spray.

#105 gap

gap
  • participating member
  • 499 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Australia

Posted 12 January 2009 - 05:54 PM

The guidelines I had at school were for ~34 degrees for spraying coloured cocoa butter and not fussed about tempering it first

#106 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 12 January 2009 - 08:28 PM

I can't quite seem to find which gun you purchased?

View Post

Here is my new baby.The GT-X2.

Oh yeah, the question was raised earlier about warm air from the turbine. I didn't find it warm at all and the colours I sprayed dried quickly.

View Post


Kerry

You certainly get all the neat toys to play with.

View Post

I do like my kitchen toys. No real Christmas presents for the kitchen this year - except what I got for myself.

#107 John DePaula

John DePaula
  • participating member
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:16 PM

I ordered my setup last week and am really looking forward to trying it out. Kerry's results are most impressive. How did those speckled items turn out after unmolding, Kerry?

Went hunting for materials to construct a temporary spray hood. Got lucky and found a piece of corian counter top that exactly fits my space - only $10! What a deal!
John DePaula
DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

#108 mostlylana

mostlylana
  • participating member
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Kamloops, BC, Canada

Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:54 PM

Wow Kerry - you're my hero - you're such a do-er! I am aptly named 'Lana' as backwards it spells '----'... and that's me. My husband keeps wanting to set up the guns and compressor and experiment but I can't until I understand everything! I'm getting there... It will happen...
I am so impressed with your results Kerry. Now I'm wishing I got that system. My gun has more gauges and regulators it seems. Can you control the cup pressure and air pressure to your gun separately? I can on mine but I need to find out what the max pressure on the cup is. The guys at the tool place scared me by saying too much pressure could blow up my cup! All of this talk about blowing up is unnerving. Cups blowing up with too much pressure, houses blowing up with compressors. Geez!
What kind of system are you getting John? The one shown at JB Prince?

#109 John DePaula

John DePaula
  • participating member
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 13 January 2009 - 01:52 PM

Wow Kerry - you're my hero - you're such a do-er!  I am aptly named 'Lana' as backwards it spells '----'... and that's me.  My husband keeps wanting to set up the guns and compressor and experiment but I can't until I understand everything!  I'm getting there...  It will happen...
I am so impressed with your results Kerry.  Now I'm wishing I got that system.  My gun has more gauges and regulators it seems.  Can you control the cup pressure and air pressure to your gun separately?  I can on mine but I need to find out what the max pressure on the cup is.  The guys at the tool place scared me by saying too much pressure could blow up my cup!  All of this talk about blowing up is unnerving.  Cups blowing up with too much pressure, houses blowing up with compressors.  Geez!
What kind of system are you getting John?  The one shown at JB Prince?

View Post

Kerry is amazing. She hears about a technique and BAM!, there she is experimenting with it. I admire her. Me, I seem to take forever to get going...

I ended up getting the same system that Kerry bought: the Fuji Q4 Pro system + the Gravity feed pressurized gun. Also, got a set of the little bottles for different colors but sounds like it's so easy to change colors, may not be necessary.
John DePaula
DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

#110 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 13 January 2009 - 02:59 PM

I ordered my setup last week and am really looking forward to trying it out.  Kerry's results are most impressive.  How did those speckled items turn out after unmolding, Kerry?

Went hunting for materials to construct a temporary spray hood.  Got lucky and found a piece of corian counter top that exactly fits my space - only $10!  What a deal!

View Post

Posted Image

Here's how they look.

Lana - hubby says the pressure on the cup is not independently adjustable from the gun. The only knob I played with was the incoming air pressure from the turbine.

#111 John DePaula

John DePaula
  • participating member
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 13 January 2009 - 03:18 PM

I ordered my setup last week and am really looking forward to trying it out.  Kerry's results are most impressive.  How did those speckled items turn out after unmolding, Kerry?

Went hunting for materials to construct a temporary spray hood.  Got lucky and found a piece of corian counter top that exactly fits my space - only $10!  What a deal!

View Post

Posted Image

Here's how they look.

Lana - hubby says the pressure on the cup is not independently adjustable from the gun. The only knob I played with was the incoming air pressure from the turbine.

View Post

Well, those look pretty good. The splatter effect is great! Are they as shiny as they look? Did you just use the molds at room-temp or did you warm them up a bit?
John DePaula
DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

#112 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 13 January 2009 - 03:26 PM

I ordered my setup last week and am really looking forward to trying it out.  Kerry's results are most impressive.  How did those speckled items turn out after unmolding, Kerry?

Went hunting for materials to construct a temporary spray hood.  Got lucky and found a piece of corian counter top that exactly fits my space - only $10!  What a deal!

View Post

Posted Image

Here's how they look.

Lana - hubby says the pressure on the cup is not independently adjustable from the gun. The only knob I played with was the incoming air pressure from the turbine.

View Post

Well, those look pretty good. The splatter effect is great! Are they as shiny as they look? Did you just use the molds at room-temp or did you warm them up a bit?

View Post

The pink and silver ones are even shinier than they appear in the picture. The molds were room temperature.

#113 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 13 January 2009 - 06:30 PM

Posted Image

Check out the difference with these ones. This was the first mold I splattered and some of the splatter was still wet when I went on to spray the next colour.

I also realize that some attention must be paid to getting all sides of a rectangle sprayed equally.

#114 patris

patris
  • participating member
  • 169 posts
  • Location:Buffalo, NY

Posted 13 January 2009 - 06:47 PM

Posted Image

Check out the difference with these ones.  This was the first mold I splattered and some of the splatter was still wet when I went on to spray the next colour. 

I also realize that some attention must be paid to getting all sides of a rectangle sprayed equally.

View Post


Are you saying there's something inferior about them? Because I think they're gorgeous.

You've also got me coveting that rectangular mold. Hanging around with you is dangerous.
Patty

#115 John DePaula

John DePaula
  • participating member
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 13 January 2009 - 06:53 PM

Posted Image

Check out the difference with these ones.  This was the first mold I splattered and some of the splatter was still wet when I went on to spray the next colour. 

I also realize that some attention must be paid to getting all sides of a rectangle sprayed equally.

View Post

I think those look fantastic, Kerry. When you mentioned that you got a different effect if you didn't wait for the first splatters to dry, I thought it might be really cool. Is it possible to just spray air? I'm wondering how it would be to lay down some splatters and then hit it lightly with just compressed air...
John DePaula
DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

#116 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 13 January 2009 - 06:59 PM

Yup, you could do that - just spray with air to get them to spread out like this. I'm not really thinking they are inferior - just different. They kind of remind me of old bricks.

The downside of this little rectangular mold - it's hard to get a thin layer in it for a filled chocolate, so it would probably be best as a solid chocolate.

#117 mostlylana

mostlylana
  • participating member
  • 410 posts
  • Location:Kamloops, BC, Canada

Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:50 PM

Chocolatiers start your engines! I just fired up my compressor for the first time today. After just a little screaming on my part everything went quite well. The house didn't blow up - I was glad of that. I am now completely outfitted for my guns and I am almost finished making my spray tent to drape over my stove fan. I plan to try my guns tomorrow. You'll probably hear me squealing in most parts of Canada and the States when that happens! I'll keep you posted!

#118 Kerry Beal

Kerry Beal
  • participating member
  • 9,440 posts
  • Location:Ontario, Canada

Posted 17 January 2009 - 08:57 PM

Chocolatiers start your engines!  I just fired up my compressor for the first time today.  After just a little screaming on my part everything went quite well.  The house didn't blow up - I was glad of that.  I am now completely outfitted for my guns and I am almost finished making my spray tent to drape over my stove fan.  I plan to try my guns tomorrow.  You'll probably hear me squealing in most parts of Canada and the States when that happens!  I'll keep you posted!

View Post

I'm looking forward to seeing how your spray tent works.

#119 John DePaula

John DePaula
  • participating member
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:47 PM

Posted Image

View Post

Anyone know where to find molds like Debondt uses? Large egg, hinged double mold. I think it's a spinner. The ones on JKV don't look like they're doubles.

Edited by John DePaula, 22 January 2009 - 03:53 PM.

John DePaula
DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

#120 John DePaula

John DePaula
  • participating member
  • 1,495 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:51 PM

I'm in love with this new Fuji spray gun!  For the first time airbrushing I finished without coloured hair or blowing blue snot.  Minimal aerosol, and can be made less by turning down the volume of air.

I made up chocolate with 30% extra cocoa butter, then used it to spray a frozen boot.  I screwed up a bit - the chocolate was supposed to be 50º C when I sprayed it - but it was around 30º.  I think the suede look would have been better with the temperature right.  And of course it doesn't help that I've now got finger prints on it. 

...

I then took the same mixture, turned the air pressure right down until the chocolate sputtered out of the needle - perfect splatter!  It was a simple matter to dump out what was left in the container - wipe with a paper towel - heat with the heat gun - wipe once more - then blow the air through until no more colour came out of the needle.  Then I added a coloured cocoa butter and sprayed.

...

This gun will not allow you to do a thin line (but I don't think any spray gun or airbrush will).  The unit we got is the Q4 turbine - Q for quiet - it still makes a fair amount of noise, but it's not at the ear splitting frequencies of my compressor, so it's a whole lot easier to tolerate.  I think the extra $200 for the quieter turbine is money well spent.  I'm going to keep the 6 foot flexible hose and the attachment with the air control valve in my stuff - and let hubby get another one - because it was covered in coloured cocoa butter fingerprints when I was done.  This way I don't have to worry about food safety issues because we are sharing the turbine.

View Post

By the way, I emailed Paul from FujiSpray, and asked if it might be possible to use a plastic sack, e.g. made from a ZipLock bag, in the non-gravity feed pressure pot. He says that some people do use a plastic bag for spraying paint.

I don't think there are any food-safe issues to deal with but using a sack may provide a very fast way to switch colors.

Edited by John DePaula, 22 January 2009 - 03:54 PM.

John DePaula
DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Chocolate