197 replies to this topic

[mostlylana]

Is there a reason to use such a large HVLP spray gun as the Fuji?

With the pressurized cup you can easily do effects as well...

[cmflick]

Is there a reason to use such a large HVLP spray gun as the Fuji?

The main difference I find between the Badger and the Fuji is the amount of aerosolized cocoa butter in the air when I'm done. With the Badger I am covered with a fine mist in just a few minutes. Before the Fuji I dreaded airbrushing.

Ditto the aerosoling with a Badger. What I really notice is that my glasses get a film of cocoa butter on them pretty quickly when I use my Badger!

[Kerry Beal]

I have 4 airbrushes/sprayguns for chocolate - the Badger 250, another Badger I can't recall the number of (that I bought because it could splatter - theoretically) and Iwata (never worked worth a shit with chocolate) and now the Fuji.

The Fuji is the only one I suspect I'll ever use again.

[John DePaula]

And I'll just throw my 2¢ : When I used my Badger airbrush, aerosolized chocolate everywhere, including my glasses.

With the Fuji, nowhere but my spray booth i.e. not on me. Yay!

Edited by John DePaula, 27 January 2009 - 12:52 PM.

[Kerry Beal]

Here's the multicoloured splatter with milk chocolate.

[mostlylana]

Wow - fantastic! I wish we all lived closer together so we could play together. I would love to watch you do those.

[John DePaula]

Yes, I agree... really awesome!

[cmflick]

Very nice. They look like marble!

I noticed that you've done a lot of "splatter" with your new spraygun. Can you do fine spraying as well?

[Kerry Beal]

Very nice.  They look like marble!

I noticed that you've done a lot of "splatter" with your new spraygun.  Can you do fine spraying as well?

Sure can - but I'm in my 'splatter phase' right now. This gun brings out my inner Jackson Pollock.

If you look at the first experiments I did - I splattered with dark chocolate and then did a fine spray with pink and silver.

I was fooling around with my frog and mice molds this trip - it takes me so long to paint to get the effect I like on them, so I am holding out hope that spraying them will be more efficient. I got a nice shiny surface - but it's all the same - so I'm not sure how to adjust the spray to get what I want. I may end up with splattered frogs and mice too!

[cmflick]

I have a question... once you've sprayed, how do you remove the overspray from the mold?  Scrape while wet?  Wipe while wet?  Scrape when dry?

Ideally I wipe while wet - with paper towels laid flat, I just place the mold face down and push it across the surface.

Kerry, thanks for the tip on how to clean off the overspray. I tried it this morning with ordinary kitchen paper towels and it worked like a charm. It makes clean up later a whole lot easier.

Edited by cmflick, 29 January 2009 - 09:05 AM.

[rubyred]

I've only had a chance to read through the first three pages of this topic, which have been absolutely illuminating! I'm going to read through the rest when I have more time, but til then I have a question:

Has anyone tried using a hobby paint sprayer (the sort used to paint model cars, etc.) with chocolate? I'm more or less experimenting at this point, so the $15 price tag is very appealing compared to hardware store prices! Specifically, I want to try the Alinea recipe 'LIQUID CHOCOLATE, Chicory, Dandelion, Banana, which calls for coating a frozen chocolate square with chocolate spray.

I'm curious to hear what everyone has to say about it. It seems to me that, in the absence of any other trials with this product, $15 almost makes the hobby sprayer disposable, if only to report back on my findings!

[prairiegirl]

Request for an update: How does the Fugi (Kerry)differ from the Walmec(Lana)?
I use a Badger Universal for airbrushing. I can't do splatters but it is safer than the aerosol can. Has anyone tried the JLP that Kerry provided the link? This one has the heated head. I know that DC Duby uses a heated airbrush. I am unsure of which is the best all round airbrush to use. I like the idea of a heated head as the clogging can be annoying! Please continue to educate me.
Thanks.
deb.

[Serj]

Has anyone tried using a hobby paint sprayer (the sort used to paint model cars, etc.) with chocolate?

I have found it comes out a little sloppy. It's hard to get the nice even distribution- lots of splotches. Obviously you get what you pay for! :)

[Serj]

Or maybe it's just me! :)

Edited by Serj, 27 March 2009 - 11:20 PM.

[rubyred]

Has anyone tried using a hobby paint sprayer (the sort used to paint model cars, etc.) with chocolate?

I have found it comes out a little sloppy. It's hard to get the nice even distribution- lots of splotches. Obviously you get what you pay for! :)

I had a feeling that might be the case. Thanks, Serj!

[schneich]

we use three different airbrush sizes, a small paasche external mixer, a bigger gun usually used for car paint jobs, and a wagner airless. since my first career was in graphic design, i used to do airbush illustrations and photo retouching long before photoshop became an option. the thing that john mentioned when he uses his small airbrush is called "overspray" and it occurs if your pressure level is way to high, all you have to do is turning the pressure down a bit. i like to work with the paasche because it gives me a great control over what iam doing. i can do color transitions, lines, polka dots, and even use some paper maskings for cool marble like effects. the big guns are way to big for that kind of control. if i find the time i do some demo shells, so you caan see what i mean :-)
btw. a few weeks ago we had the advanced chocolates course at callebaut with jp wybauw. it was just cool. i put the pics up as soon as i find some time...


cheers

t.

[Kerry Beal]

we use three different airbrush sizes, a small paasche external mixer, a bigger gun usually used for car paint jobs, and a wagner airless. since my first career was in graphic design, i used to do airbush illustrations and photo retouching long before photoshop became an option. the thing that john mentioned when he uses his small airbrush is called "overspray" and it occurs if your pressure level is way to high, all you have to do is turning the pressure down a bit.  i like to work with the paasche because it gives me a great control over what iam doing. i can do color transitions, lines, polka dots, and even use some paper maskings for cool marble like effects. the big guns are way to big for that kind of control. if i find the time i do some demo shells, so you caan see what i mean :-)
btw. a few weeks ago we had the advanced chocolates course at callebaut with jp wybauw. it was just cool. i put the pics up as soon as i find some time...


cheers

t.

Can't wait to see both the demo and the JPW stuff!

[Lior]

yes, me 2!!

[tomdarch]

I've only had a chance to read through the first three pages of this topic, which have been absolutely illuminating!  I'm going to read through the rest when I have more time, but til then I have a question:

Has anyone tried using a hobby paint sprayer (the sort used to paint model cars, etc.) with chocolate?  I'm more or less experimenting at this point, so the $15 price tag is very appealing compared to hardware store prices!  Specifically, I want to try the Alinea recipe 'LIQUID CHOCOLATE, Chicory, Dandelion, Banana, which calls for coating a frozen chocolate square with chocolate spray.

I'm curious to hear what everyone has to say about it.  It seems to me that, in the absence of any other trials with this product, $15 almost makes the hobby sprayer disposable, if only to report back on my findings!

Basically, I'm looking for the same thing. In the Alinea recipe, there is a chocolate preparation that's liquid around room temperature. That preparation is frozen into a block, then the frozen block is sprayed with a semi-thick layer of chocolate on all sides that will remain solid at room temperature. The sprayed surface in the photo is beyond "velvet" - it's verging on "popcorn" - splattery and textured, but even. This sprayed block is allowed to come to room temperature and is served (with all the other "accessories") on the edge of a bowl, so that the diner breaks the outer layer of sprayed chocolate, and the liquid interior runs out into the bowl.

Here's a photo of the dish before the sprayed "block" is broken open for the liquid contents to run out onto the plate.
http://farm1.static...._bcbd16a545.jpg
In the book, the lighting makes the evenly splattered surface pretty clear. Functionally, though, the splatter doesn't matter. The important thing is that the outer layer is thick enough to contain the liquid center.

For most of us "Alinea at home" folks, buying a serious HVLP spray system is probably out of the question. We're looking for a way to get that outer layer of sprayed chocolate onto the frozen "core" block. I don't have the book with me, or I'd give you some idea of what the spraying chocolate is like in terms of ingredients/mix/quantity.

One issue I see with the small air brushes is that in order to coat several blocks, you would need a fair amount of chocolate. The tiny paint pot may be impractical.

I had thought that I could pour/paint on the outer coating, but that isn't nearly as pretty or "authentic."

[mostlylana]

we use three different airbrush sizes, a small paasche external mixer, a bigger gun usually used for car paint jobs, and a wagner airless. since my first career was in graphic design, i used to do airbush illustrations and photo retouching long before photoshop became an option. the thing that john mentioned when he uses his small airbrush is called "overspray" and it occurs if your pressure level is way to high, all you have to do is turning the pressure down a bit.  i like to work with the paasche because it gives me a great control over what iam doing. i can do color transitions, lines, polka dots, and even use some paper maskings for cool marble like effects. the big guns are way to big for that kind of control. if i find the time i do some demo shells, so you caan see what i mean :-)
btw. a few weeks ago we had the advanced chocolates course at callebaut with jp wybauw. it was just cool. i put the pics up as soon as i find some time...


cheers

t.

Scneich, it would be amazing to see your spraying demo's. I have been a member of Egullet for not quite a year now and have learned so much from you. I don't know how many times I looked at your lab set-up and your Selmi demo photos. So informative!

So just letting you know there's another one keeping an eye on this thread for your demo! (No pressure at all!!!)

Thanks for being so willing to share.

Lana

[Tri2Cook]

tomdarch: I've done that recipe from the book and I just used a plain ol' Wagner sprayer. I use those for pretty much everything I do (which doesn't include needing to be able to do detail work for cakes or chocolate molds). The wagner makes a velvety surface if the object to be sprayed is frozen and you don't hold the sprayer too close to what you're spraying. If you do 2 or 3 very thin coats and stick it back in the freezer for a couple minutes between coats instead of doing one thicker coat it will have that more coarse look to it.

[adatyan]

Hallo, schneich

I would like to buy the sprayer you recommended, Wagner W 180 P set. But I have some questions. Can I use it alone or I have to buy a Compressor additionally? And the effect of spray is rough or fein? Thanks a lot!

And looking forward to seeing your photos!

we use three different airbrush sizes, a small paasche external mixer, a bigger gun usually used for car paint jobs, and a wagner airless. since my first career was in graphic design, i used to do airbush illustrations and photo retouching long before photoshop became an option. the thing that john mentioned when he uses his small airbrush is called "overspray" and it occurs if your pressure level is way to high, all you have to do is turning the pressure down a bit.  i like to work with the paasche because it gives me a great control over what iam doing. i can do color transitions, lines, polka dots, and even use some paper maskings for cool marble like effects. the big guns are way to big for that kind of control. if i find the time i do some demo shells, so you caan see what i mean :-)
btw. a few weeks ago we had the advanced chocolates course at callebaut with jp wybauw. it was just cool. i put the pics up as soon as i find some time...


cheers

t.

[tomdarch]

tomdarch: I've done that recipe from the book and I just used a plain ol' Wagner sprayer. I use those for pretty much everything I do (which doesn't include needing to be able to do detail work for cakes or chocolate molds). The wagner makes a velvety surface if the object to be sprayed is frozen and you don't hold the sprayer too close to what you're spraying. If you do 2 or 3 very thin coats and stick it back in the freezer for a couple minutes between coats instead of doing one thicker coat it will have that more coarse look to it.

Thanks! What would you say is the minimum amount of chocolate to put in the container? Do you need to take any specific steps (e.g. warming the container) while spraying? Did you modify the chocolate mix for spraying from the Alinea recipe?

[gfron1]

I fill it enough to make sure I get through the job, acknowledging that I will be tilting the sprayer as I us it, so I have to have enough to stay above the intake line. As far as warming - I bring my cocoa butter or chocolate mix down to just above room temp, and lately I've taken to blasting my nozzle with a heat gun to ensure smooth outflow. I don't heat my storage bottle because the spraying goes very fast and its not necessary.

[cmflick]

I have also used Wagner paint sprayer quite a bit. I preheat my oven to "warm" and as soon as preheated, turn it off. Then put my Wagner sprayer in to warm it up (including the container) . I use the chocolate at 90-95F. I have done cakes and larger chocolate items (both frozen before spraying to get the velvety look) and never had any problems with clogging. The spray seemed pretty course to me and sprayed a pretty broad area so there was lots of over spray. It does give an excellent velvety texture. I got an air brush, because I didn't think that I could get the control that I wanted with the Wagner prayer.

[prairiegirl]

I just got the Walmec gun. I am too busy with chocolate orders so hopefully Thursday I can go and get a compressor for the gun. A big thanks to Lana and to Kerry for all their input and experiences. Now of course I am overwhelmed with what I need to do and know for this new piece of equipment. It will be a big asset to my business. I currently use the universal 360 by Badger but it can't handle the viscosity of chocolate. It does work well for the cocoa butter.

[mostlylana]

I just got the Walmec gun. 

Wow! Congrats Deb! Which model did you end up getting? We're going to have to get together and spray.

Keep us informed as to your learning curve. I haven't been using my gun at all. I keep moving on to different projects waiting for some free time. It's coming... the summer is almost here...

[prairiegirl]

I bought exactly what you got. I figured you knew what you were doing!! I hope your right!!!!
Deb.

[mostlylana]

I bought exactly what you got.  I figured you knew what you were doing!! I hope your right!!!!
Deb.

Me too!!

[mostlylana]

But there are airbrushes they sell with heated heads for working with chocolate as seen here.   So I suspect that as long as it doesn't blow air that is too warm it won't be a huge problem.

Kerry mentioned this heated head airbrush some time ago and I wrote for info but didn't get a response (what's with these companies not answering requests to purchase their products???!!!)
Has anyone else followed up on it? Any luck? I'd love more info and PRICING!
Here's the link:
http://www.aerographe.com/page7e.htm