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Buttercream Frosting/Icing: The Topic


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#91 Wendy DeBord

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 06:31 PM

I think chefpeon gave you some really solid advice!

#92 Kathyf

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 08:42 PM

I'm very familiar with this recipe because it's an old family favorite. We always have called it Waldorf frosting and it tends to separate and look a bit curdled after sitting at room temp too long. I've had really good luck whipping it for 5 to 7 minutes until it resembles a very stiff whipped cream, adding 2 tsp whipped cream stabilizer and whipping for another minute. If you can't find the stabilizer you can use 1/4 cup powdered sugar OR 2 T cornstarch instead. I prefer the stabilizer because it doesn't change the taste.
I'm not sure I'd trust Waldorf for wedding tiers though unless you can keep it chilled until shortly before the reception begins. It's held up well on sheet cakes so when a couple requests it for a wedding I suggest they use it on sheets. I realize sheets are used more commonly in areas like mine where weddings are large so that may not be a good option for you. Another option I've given couples is to frost the cake in another icing and left a bowl of Waldorf to be served with the cake similar to adding whipped cream at the last minute. Most wedding slices don't have a lot of frosting anyway and Waldorf is so good they'll be happier with a big spoonful.
Our family always used it for chocolate loaf cake - buttermilk pound cake baked and sliced like bread and smothered in Waldorf frosting. Its also used for red velvet cake in the midwest. I'd never heard of cream cheese on red velvet until I found the internet.

#93 K8memphis

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 08:27 AM

Chris, just wanted to say, let us all know how this plays out for you.
Best of the best to you.

#94 ChocoChris

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Posted 13 September 2005 - 07:03 PM

Chris, just wanted to say, let us all know how this plays out for you.
Best of the best to you.

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Thanks so much and thanks to all of you for your suggestions. I did tell the bride of the bc issue. She was ok with the idea of tweaking but not an entire replacement with a different bc. Unfortunately, she equates bc with the stuff that a grocery store puts on their cakes so she thinks of it as super sweet. As I don't have time to convince her otherwise and she doesn't have time either, I plan on using one of the variations posted here.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Chris

#95 MelissaH

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Posted 14 September 2005 - 08:33 AM

Would it be out of the question for you to make a small cake, of whatever variety she's going to be using, and frost it with whatever icing would make you happy but still be close to what the bride thinks she wants, and deliver that to the bride? (As far as decoration, I'd do either nothing or just a very simple border.) That way she would know what she's getting, and if there's been an accident, food is always good to have around.

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#96 lancastermike

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 06:30 AM

Made a buche de noel for my wife's Christmas party at work. She saw a receipe for a mocha buttercream. I have had mixed results making buttercream and this one was not good. It called for heating 4 egg whites with a cup of sugar over simmering water until the sugar melted. Than to whip the egg whites until they cooled. Than to beat in the three sticks of softend unsalted butter. At this point it looked ok. Than to add two tablespoons of espresso powder disolved in two tablespoons of brandy. This is when it got ugly. The whole thing seperated into an ugly mass of stuff I was not spreading on any cake. Went to back up plan and made ganache. Any thoughts on what may have happended?

many thanks

#97 andiesenji

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:14 AM

Did you try chilling it and beating it again?

There are a bunch of icing recipes here and I have used many with excellent results. The cream cheese frostings I have tried are exceptional.
some are big recipes for professionals but some are small batches.

I have used the coffee cream icing -adding a tablespoon or so of sweetened cocoa for a mocha flavor.

Adding liquor to some mixtures can cause curdling.

Edited by andiesenji, 16 December 2005 - 07:15 AM.

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#98 Tweety69bird

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:25 AM

Maybe you got this result because the mixture of the fat and non fat didn't want to mix. Perhaps you could try sitting the bowl of buttercream in another bowl of hot water so that some of the BC melts down, and then try to re whip it. Good luck.
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#99 andiesenji

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:41 AM

I forgot to mention that I beat in the softened butter a tablespoon at a time for small batches, for large batches it should be only a fraction of the total volume added and completely beaten in (on high speed) before more is added.
You didn't mention how you incorporated it -
When I make a buttercream with whole eggs, I do heat the mixture after I have added the syrup to the beaten eggs and continue beating over simmering water until thick, and about 160 degrees F. I then continue beating until it is at room temp then add the flavorings. This will keep in the fridge for a couple of days.

However I seldom use this type of icing now, since there are easier methods for home baking.
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#100 lancastermike

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 07:48 AM

However I seldom use this type of icing now, since there are easier methods for home baking.



I agree 100% and I am a home baker not a professional. The ganache I made and whipped up a bit did a wonderful job. I may leave the buttercream to the pros from now on. Thanks to all for the replies.

#101 CanadianBakin'

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 08:41 AM

My buttercream almost always separates at some point. I bet if you had just kept the mixer on at low speed for a couple minutes it would have smoothed out.
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#102 YoChefGregg

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 09:14 AM

I agree with Canadian.
Most often while making a buttercream, there comes a point where the buttercream looks like it has separated. It has, warm it gently over warm water and then beat it well and it will come together and work beautifully.

Edited by YoChefGregg, 16 December 2005 - 09:15 AM.

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#103 sanrensho

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 01:40 PM

I may leave the buttercream to the pros from now on.


I urge you to get yourself a good book and keep trying. The Cake Bible has some good buttercream recipes and excellent instructions. I usually use RLB's mousseline BC from that book. I'm only a home baker, but have never had a problem making that particular recipe.

Edited by sanrensho, 16 December 2005 - 01:42 PM.

Baker of "impaired" cakes...

#104 etalanian

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Posted 16 December 2005 - 01:59 PM

Don't give up! I concur that most separated buttercreams can be fixed by beating them. I find that beating them on medium or medium-high speed usually does the trick.
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#105 freddurf

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 12:36 AM

I'm making a 3-d airplane cake this weekend and need some tips on applying buttercream to the wooden part of the cake board. The wheels, wings and nose of the plane will be wood with a light coating of frosting and the body of the plane will be cake. To cover the wings with buttercream, do I first cover it in foil and then apply the buttercream? Will I have any problems with it sliding off? I was going to use IMBC. I'm worried that it will slide right off the vertical tail wing because I won't be able to put it in the fridge to let it "set". It's too big. I'm in Hawaii, so it's pretty hot here. Do you think it will be ok? I have finally perfected my IMBC thanks to everyone's help here, but I'm nervous because it won't be going into the fridge to harden up a bit. If all goes well, this cake will have a rotating propeller and flashing red lights. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated!

#106 JeanneCake

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 02:42 AM

Does it have to be covered? Chefette did a demo some months ago of planes in pastillage, and while you'd be playing with time to get it to dry (especially in all the humidity), maybe doing it in pastillage might be easier than covering the wood sections with bcrm. If not, I'd add some veg shortening for stability - it's not going to be eaten so the taste won't have to be a concern. (or if you have a copy of the Cake Bible, there's a recipe for a practice buttercream that's all veg shortening in there). People serving the cake will know what parts are inedible, right? Take pictures and let us know how it worked out!

#107 pastrymama

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 06:58 AM

you could use royal icing and let it dry for a day.
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#108 Wendy DeBord

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 06:59 AM

Here's the thread thats shows Chefettes plane.

#109 freddurf

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 11:36 PM

I wanted to post a picture of the wooden cake board, but I don't see a file attatchment here. Is it here or am I missing it? Picture an airplane....the only part that's cake will be the fuselage. The rest of the plane needs to look like it's cake, so it will be covered in icing. So my question is how do I apply IMBC to the dummy part of the cake board? Do I cover it in foil first then frost? Is there something special I need to do before applying the icing to the wooden part? I'm afraid it will just slide right off the dummy part of the board! It might not be an issue at all, it's just that I've never done anything like this before and there's no room for mistakes. I've never iced a cake with IMBC and then left it at room temp. I've always thrown it in the fridge to set up, so I'm worried it will be so soft it's all going to slide off in a huge messy pile! Someone please calm my nerves!
I can't use royal icing because the frosting covering the dummy part of the board needs to smoothly blend into the edible part of the cake. I don't think I can make the two different icings look the same. I loved the demo on pastillage, but it won't work in this case.

Edited by freddurf, 31 January 2006 - 11:38 PM.


#110 JeanneCake

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 04:08 AM

The butter in the buttercream will absorb into the wood, but since it isn't edible, it won't be a problem. You could try to cover the wings, etc with foil - maybe that new plastic sheeting stuff that you press together to seal would be good, I've never used it, but it seems that you could simply put the wing between the plastic, seal it, and then trim it. I don't think the buttercream will slide off the wood, it might slide off the plastic or foil, though. Do you have time to test this (wrap something in foil and see how long the bcrm lasts at rm temp)?

How are you attaching the wings to the cake? Are you building the fuselage around a long piece of wood shaped like the wing? Or is it two pieces? I don't think covering wood with buttercream will be a problem, I suspect it would be harder to secure the pieces and not mess up the buttercream while handling it.

#111 rooftop1000

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 06:10 AM

What about a very thin "splotchy" layer of royal icing on the wooden parts, let that dry and it can be a rough base for the butter cream to grab onto....
My husband would flip over an airplane cake.

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#112 freddurf

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 12:34 PM

Posted Image

I hope this picture post. As you can see (hopefully) it is all one piece. I like the idea of applying R.I. to the dummy part first to give the IMBC something to cling onto. I think I'll try that. I wish I had time to test it, but I don't. I'll just have to go for it and keep my fingers crossed!

#113 schneich

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 05:08 PM

since i have to do lots of buttercream from now on i tried to flavor it different ways. i use an old family recipe. its basically making an egg custard with eggs an d sugar, then beat the mixture in a cold waterbath to room temp, next whis in butter same temp. if the mixture separates it can be fixed in no time by beating it in a warm waterbath. so far so good this stuff is easy to make and quite tasty. it can be loaded with as much melted chocolate as you like. also one or two caps of grand marnier concentrate are tolerated without harm. next thing i wanted to try was a frosting for my plum cupcakes, i reduced some plum juice to a sirup and incorporated this ( and some cassis) into the buttercream. for a moment everything looked cool but then the mixture started "gliding" in the bowl and moments later it kind of semi seperated...

can a buttercream only tolerate so much of a "watery phase" ??
i thought it works like in a mayonnaise where i can add as much water as i like and only affect the viscosity....

what about the laduree folks and their raspberry buttercream which is bright red and taste like raspberry... ?? :blink:


help is very much appreciated...


cheers

t.

Edited by schneich, 19 February 2006 - 05:10 PM.

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#114 project

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 07:03 PM

When a dog walks on its hind legs, the wonder is not that he does it awkwardly but that he does it at all.

Buttercream is like that dog: That you have been able to make it stand up at all is already plenty amazing.

I tried to make buttercream once, from 'Mastering'. I followed the recipe very carefully and ended up with a yellow liquid with the viscosity of cream. Then I got desperate and started improvising. I did this and that. Finally I just put it in the freezer for most of an hour and then beat it over ice. Finally I got something light yellow and about like whipped cream. That's the way it got used, and I never tried buttercream again.
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#115 CanadianBakin'

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Posted 19 February 2006 - 10:48 PM

for a moment everything looked cool but then the mixture started "gliding" in the bowl and moments later it kind of semi seperated... 

can a buttercream only tolerate so much of a "watery phase" ??
i thought it works like in a mayonnaise where i can add as much water as i like and only affect the viscosity....

what about the laduree folks and their raspberry buttercream which is bright red and taste like raspberry... ?? :blink:


help is very much appreciated...


cheers

t.

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Did you stop beating when it started separating? If you did, I would bring it back to room temp and try beating it on low for a couple minutes to see if it comes back together.
Hopefully some of our experts will chime in.
Don't wait for extraordinary opportunities. Seize common occasions and make them great. Orison Swett Marden

#116 Tweety69bird

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 05:43 AM

I would suggest to keep beating it for a while, and see if it comes together... I find that when I add vanilla into my BC is starts to do that whole spinning thing because it seems that the vanilla forms a coat between the BC and the bowl - making everything spin around, but if you keep beating it it'll come together... good luck!!
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#117 alanamoana

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 09:27 AM

also, warming it up ever so slightly while beating will bring it back together. i've added fruit purees until my buttercream broke and just kept whisking and it all magically came back together. don't give up hope until all avenues have been taken!

#118 schneich

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 02:57 PM

thats what i did...

i know that you can save a broken bc by warming it up a bit, the weird thing was that it DID come together again in the bain marie, but only to separate again a minute or two later. it just didnt seem to be able to hold itself in shape....
it didnt completely seperate, it just wasnt smooth anymore.....

what about acidicity ???

whats the recipe for the red raspberry buttercream in those macarons as they are sold at laduree, anyone have the recipe ???
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#119 SweetSide

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 09:39 AM

Just came across this old topic on one of my perusals and found it at exactly the right moment!

I just had to make this buttercream for the first time. Since it was the first time I made it I wanted to check with others...

My buttercream seems slightly "spongy" and I swear I can taste a slight undertone of the flour. I'm just so used to meringue or French (of the non-Wilton nomenclature... :wink: ) buttercreams, that I was really expecting this to be "fluffy" as described by others.

The formula was

2 c milk
6 T flour

cooked until "bubbling and thick". (I could see the pot bottom as I stirred with the spatula.) Cool. (when cool this was a medium firm mass)

Cream 1 1/2 c sugar and 2 c butter until fluffy. Add 2 t vanilla and beat until combined.

Add the cooled milk/flour mixture and beat until fluffy. I beat for about 15 minutes on KA 8 between the butter/sugar and the whole combined frosting.

My kitchen is only about 65F. Was my buttercream spongy because it was cool? Definitely had no melting/softness problems.

Other seem to like it -- was a big hit...

Thanks!
Cheryl, The Sweet Side

#120 Wendy DeBord

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 08:06 PM

It sounds like the typical frosting for a red cake. I wouldn't really call it buttercream..........more like a variation of one.

When I make similar, I can tell it has flour in it too. Theres no way around that. It's not a browned roux. And it's texture is 'different'/fluffy, that's because you're using the roux.

If you wanted something very similar you could use a pastry cream of your liking that had cornstarch not flour as the thickener. Sub out equal weights and continue the recipe as written.

Alot of people like this frosting because it seems less sweet and not rich.

* ps...........I don't know why I'm calling the cooked flour and milk a "roux"........it's something my Mom called it. Is there a proper name for that? Could I be spelling that wrong is it Roo? Roux is traditionally butter and flour................