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Olive Oil Sorbet/Gelato


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#1 Mary Ann

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:14 PM

At work I've been experimenting with oil sorbets. I found a recipe for online for a lemon sorbet with olive oil. I made it and it was very good. The only thing is it separated and looked awful! I found another recipe online at Star Chefs for truffle oil sorbet. It also separated. Since there are recipes out there someone is having success with it and I want to know what I'm doing wrong. I'm using a Paco machine if it matters. I tried using more olive oil than lemon juice and it looked like a sorbet should, but lacked taste. Any suggestions?

#2 Sethro

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 10:32 PM

It would help to see the recipe.

You might want to try adding a little stabilizer (or guar gum, xanthan, etc).

#3 M.X.Hassett

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 11:40 PM

I have heard freezing it in a pacojet or similiar device is the way to go
Matthew Xavier Hassett aka "M.X.Hassett"

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#4 devinf

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 01:20 AM

I've had the same problems...

I took a recipe from Epicurious for a lemon olive oil sorbet. I spun it in a normal ice cream machine (Taylor) and it came out fine. But it was a one shot deal. I couldn't melt it down and respin it the next day without it breaking. I tried same recipe in the paco and it broke right off the bat.

I can only assume the high fat of the oil is contributing to the problem? I'd love to hear some ideas on this. It was a really good sorbet and one I'd like to use more often.

Sethro suggested using stabilizers. I've seen commercial stuff like Cremodan 64 but don't know much about them. Any more info on their uses?

Devin

#5 Mary Ann

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 08:51 AM

I've had the same problems...

I took a recipe from Epicurious for a lemon olive oil sorbet. I spun it in a normal ice cream machine (Taylor) and it came out fine. But it was a one shot deal. I couldn't melt it down and respin it the next day without it breaking. I tried same recipe in the paco and it broke right off the bat.

I can only assume the high fat of the oil is contributing to the problem? I'd love to hear some ideas on this. It was a really good sorbet and one I'd like to use more often.

Sethro suggested using stabilizers. I've seen commercial stuff like Cremodan 64 but don't know much about them. Any more info on their uses?

Devin

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Yes! That's exactly what happened to me. I spun it once in a Paco and it was beautiful. I took it out the next day for service, spun it, and it was separated.

#6 Mary Ann

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 09:07 AM

It would help to see the recipe.

You might want to try adding a little stabilizer (or guar gum, xanthan, etc).

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14oz water
12oz sugar
14oz lemon juice--this is a lot! Really lemony.
10oz olive oil
1lg egg white, beat till frothy
1tsp lemon zest

Heat water and sugar. Cool. Add remaining ingredients. Mix well. Freeze.

4 1/2 oz sugar
1 1/4 oz glucose powder
3/4 c + 2 tbsp water
1/2 oz milk powder
truffle oil, taste

Combine sugar, glucose powder, water. Boil. Add milk powder. Cool. Add truffle oil. Freeze.

This is a recipe from the pastry chef at The Peninsula Hotel in NYC.

#7 nightscotsman

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 09:16 AM

A stabilizer might help, but what you really need is an emulsifier to get the water and oil to play nice together. Try using 0.3% (or 5 g per 1000 g) of monostearate. It's a soy derivative.

#8 srhcb

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:11 PM

It sounds like something from the Iron Chef "Olive Oil Battle"!

SB :wink:

#9 ariggsby

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Posted 03 March 2006 - 12:29 PM

I once made the recipe in the Babbo cookbook. I don't recall exactly what was in it (but olive oil was the only real flavoring agent), but it worked fine using a home freezer.

Andrew
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#10 tan319

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Posted 04 March 2006 - 11:45 PM

That white truffle oil sorbet recipe on starchefs is, IMO, seriously off.
It could be a case of someone trying to adapt a recipe for home use that won't fly, although it DID use quite a few ing. (like atomised glucose) that you wouldn't necessarily find down the street.
If it's separating it's not emulsified correctly.
I would use a stabilizer, for sure.
Also, like nightscotsman points out, monostearate is used a lot in ice creams and sorbets these days, goumet, fine dining, commercial, whatever.
There IS a recipe out of an old Thuries mag, that featured one of my fave pastry (and savory) chefs, Philippe Conticini, where it seems he uses a touch of fromage blanc in his olive oil sorbet.
This has been successfully adapted by some other chefs here, I believe.
Steve Klc & Michael Laiskonis come to mind.
The FB might be what binds it, since it's 0 or close to zero fat.
I wouldn't try thawing it and respinning it either.
Personally I've never been a big fan of that practice and find it unnecessary IF you use a bit of stabilizer and store at a good temp.
At the very least you would probably have to immersion blend the mix to get a decent emulsification.
It would probably be best in a Paco but a Paco won't keep your mix from turning into a mess if the fat ratios are screwed up...
2317/5000

#11 Revallo

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:14 AM

I posted your question on the Molecular Gastronomy Discussion List the other day and here is what they came up with.


  "1) hydrocolloids/ stabilisers

A compromise can be using the peel of the lemon. When you're cooking the peel of lemon for example in your lemon juice pectines are released (pectines are the gelling agents that make a jam into a gel). Pectines can stabilise water/ ice crystals.

2) Emulsifiers

Probably gelatin will give better results as it also is a good emulsifier. -> recipes of Herve This where he replaces egg yolk by egg white to make a mayonnaise (same suggestion like Jared with his mustard as mustard contains emulsifiers (cell wall of plants are good emulsifiers - see e.g. aïoli where the garlic cell walls contains the emulsifiers)

3) Change the oil

A totally different way (but I'm not sure this will work) is using winterisatie. This is a process used in food to prevent that your oil in the frigde will separate. Suppose you put your olive oil first in the fridge. After a while you we see that the olive oil separates into fat/solids and oil.Then filter the your olive oil to become the fat. Make a sorbet with this fat. This will give more stable sorbet

Or another way is to add a fat like cocoa. Cocoa fat mixed with olive oil stays solid.

4) Change the lemon

If you replace lemon juice by lemon oil you won't get a separation (like Joel's suggestion)

5) Water in oil emulsion or oil in water emulsion

If you start with the lemon juice (+ emulsifier), then add gradually the olive oil (but in quantities that are smaller than the amount of lemon juice) to make a oil in water emulsion and not a water in oil emulsion

6) The process

You can retard the separation by making a better emulsion just by mixing longer to obtain much smaller drops of oil."


"Only the tougne tells the truth..."-F.A.


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#12 Kieranm

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 01:13 PM

You mention Danisco's Cremodan. They have a natural sorbet line, which should make respinning unneccessary. They also have an ice cream stabiliser - we use SE 33 Veg. It has emusifying as well as stabilising properties and might help with your sorbet, but you know what they say about oil and water. :rolleyes:

If you use it, mix it with the sugar to help it dissolve and add it once the water is above 30C. You will need to bring the mix over 73C, which is the stabiliser melting point, mix it very well (high shear mixer is ideal), and cool it as quickly as possible.

I am not a fan of gelatin in sorbet as it clouds the taste and makes it look unnatural.

I will see if our food technologist has any suggestions...
“My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate - that's my philosophy”
- Thornton Wilder

Shameless link to Kieranm's blog...

#13 Ekaterina

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 06:48 PM

If you are looking to make a natural sorbet, that has a hint of olive oil flavor - I've had success with a recipe that used plain yougurt as a emulsifier. It makes for a lighter result, that fromage blanc. But, tecnically, once you add dairy - it is no longer a sorbet.

#14 nicolekaplan

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:37 AM

i am trying to make a savory sorbet and it tastes lovely but starts to break as soon as you put a spoon in it. it is being as underspun as possible. i am only using water, sugar, oil, whites and lemon juice. i think i need a stabilizer of some kind but don't know what to add. any help would be appreciated
nkaplan@delposto.com

#15 twodogs

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:48 AM

Here is our recipe for olive chip sorbet

Olive Chip Ice Cream

150 g extra virgin olive oil
140 g Lyle's golden syrup
216 g mascarpone
2g salt
dried olive crumbs to taste*

Puree the first four ingredients together until smooth. Place in ice cream maker and freeze until just past the soft serve stage. Fold in the dried olive crumbs and then place the ice cream in the freezer to mature.

Scoop and serve.

*Dried olive crumbs are made by pitting olives and then soaking in warm water to remove excess olive oil. After the excess oil is removed the olives are dried in a low oven (180 degrees F) on paper towels until dry and crumbly.

We used it Here
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#16 alanamoana

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 09:48 AM

could you use dextrose? in the paco torreblanca book, he notes that dextrose "improves the texture of ice-creams. It enhances aroma and flavor...It reduces the freezing time of ice-creams"

i realize you're making a sorbet (and a savory one, at that) so you don't want added sweetness, so i don't know if dextrose, atomized glucose or even an invert sugar like trimoline would work better, depending on the inherent sweetness of each product.

i'm sure you've thought of all of these options, but just in case :wink:

good luck and let us know how it turns out.

#17 Michael Laiskonis

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:29 PM

Hey Nicole,

A 0% fat fromage blanc makes a nice neutral base with which to emulsify and stabilize your mixture; maybe 'google' Philippe Conticini and his olive oil sorbet and play with the sweetness level...

And with hydrocolloids all the rage, something that could help bind the mixture might be xanthan, etc...
Michael Laiskonis
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#18 tan319

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 09:28 PM

Dextrose seems to be the favored sweetener of the El Bulli boys in their ice creams abd sorbets also, more so then atomized glucose.

If it's breaking then you have to take it out of the machine before you normally would, just a bit looser.
2317/5000

#19 tan319

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 09:32 PM

Yes, stabilizer or not, those high fat guys like to turn into a mess after that one service of beauty.
My Bacon ice cream does that to me.
Paco or not.






I've had the same problems...

I took a recipe from Epicurious for a lemon olive oil sorbet. I spun it in a normal ice cream machine (Taylor) and it came out fine. But it was a one shot deal. I couldn't melt it down and respin it the next day without it breaking. I tried same recipe in the paco and it broke right off the bat.

I can only assume the high fat of the oil is contributing to the problem? I'd love to hear some ideas on this. It was a really good sorbet and one I'd like to use more often.

Sethro suggested using stabilizers. I've seen commercial stuff like Cremodan 64 but don't know much about them. Any more info on their uses?

Devin

View Post


Yes! That's exactly what happened to me. I spun it once in a Paco and it was beautiful. I took it out the next day for service, spun it, and it was separated.

View Post


2317/5000

#20 tan319

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 09:49 PM

Try this:Re: Olive OilSorbet:
____________________________
250 gr water
105 gr trimoline or invert sugar Make a syrup with these ing. You could infuse with herbs or lemon zest, etc.
60 gr gran sugar
70 gr lemon or lime juice
Strain__________________________________________________________
Put 400 gr of syrup into bowl working into a sabayon-ish mix with
120 gr egg yolk
80 gr Glucose
cool to toom temp in ice bath
_______________________________
600 gr Fromage Blanc
200 gr EVO
Incorporate this into your egg/syrup mix.
rest
Spin
_________________________
I've been using a recipe similar to this minus the eggs and cheese for a creme fraiche ice cream.
It's still a bit fragile.
Good Luck
2317/5000

#21 nicolekaplan

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 08:41 AM

in the end i upped the whites and lemon zest and now it is lovely. thanks for the help
nkaplan@delposto.com

#22 cbarre02

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 10:01 AM

Has anyone ever tried just making an olive oil mayonaise, and working stabilized sorbet base into it... or is that just to old school. I'd imagine the saturated fat from the egg would be enough to keep the whole thing from separating, and give it a longer shelf life.
Cory Barrett
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#23 twodogs

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Posted 29 July 2006 - 11:53 AM

what if you just churned olive oil mayo?
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#24 chefadamg

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Posted 15 August 2006 - 08:46 AM

I've always used pure olive oil. Just "airate" the oil in a blender or robotcoupe and put in ice cream machine.

#25 worldtoughmilkman

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 08:23 AM

Anyone have a recipe for olive oil gelato? I have a few but have not run them yet. Thanks in advance for the help!

#26 mukki

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 08:47 AM

There's one on the Williams-Sonoma website that is based on Mario Batali's. And, of course, Batali's recipe was published in the Babbo cookbook. Have you tried the one at Otto in NY? -- it's delicious with flaked sea salt sprinkled on top and served with a tangerine sorbet.

#27 worldtoughmilkman

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 08:53 AM

There's one on the Williams-Sonoma website that is based on Mario Batali's. And, of course, Batali's recipe was published in the Babbo cookbook. Have you tried the one at Otto in NY? -- it's delicious with flaked sea salt sprinkled on top and served with a tangerine sorbet.

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I have both seen the Babbo recipe and had Otto's version. The Babbo recipe seems odd in that the eggs and dairy are not cooked. Thanks for the info!

Edited by worldtoughmilkman, 07 March 2007 - 08:53 AM.


#28 xdrixn

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 10:16 AM

there's a recipe in the first paco torreblanca book...I can shoot it to you later if need be.
www.adrianvasquez.net

#29 worldtoughmilkman

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 10:24 AM

there's a recipe in the first paco torreblanca book...I can shoot it to you later if need be.

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That would be great, thanks for the help.

#30 rmillman

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 10:59 AM

I have a distinct advatage here: I work in biotechnology and have access to liquid nitrogen which I take home in a dewars flask I bought on ebay.

I find with oil based sorbets and gelatos, the LN quick freeze method is one of the best ways of making them. I get small crystal size and I do not muck up my ice cream maker. Simply wisk in a bowl the oil, any other base ingrediants and the LN.