99 replies to this topic

[elyse]

Anyway, I had a hankering for a burger, and remembering what Danny Meyer said about his burgers during the recent Q & A -- "After lots of trial, we've ended up with a beef blend that is 33% brisket, 33% shoulder clod, and 33% chuck. It's about 85% lean and 15% fat. And it's is ground fresh daily" I mentioned this to the butcher.

Good! More ingredients get me closer to the Rosengarten experience. Maybe I'd throw in some sirloin. Did you find out what shoulder clod is? How nice that your butcher gives you bones.

Scubadoo, what's the difference in chuck and chuck roast? I imagine chuck roast is what they cut the steaks from etc.?

[Shamanjoe]

I went to the meat counter at Whole Foods the other day and had him grind me equal parts each beef chuck and sirloin flap steak. He looked at me like I was crazy, but went ahead and ground them anyway. They made such juicy and flavourful burgers, very light in texture. One 1/2 pound burger fills you up nicely.

Edited by Shamanjoe, 06 June 2009 - 04:27 PM.

[paulraphael]

I've played around a bit with blends of meat. It seems best to be familiar with the categories of cut, so you can make up your mind when you see what's actually available from the market or butcher.

Right now my favorite mix is probably 2/3 chuck and 1/3 brisket (point cut). I adjust the mix based on how fatty the meat is. If the brisket is well marbled, I might go closer to 50/50. My goal is generally 15% fat, but if the burgers will be grilled, or if there are bad people coming over who want the burgers cooked past medium, I may go as high as 20%.

I cut the meat into strips and chill just to the point of ice crystals forming. I season it BEFORE grinding. This mixes in the seasoning without overworking the meat. I like to add between 1/2% and 1% salt by weight. And some pepper ... maybe as much as the salt.

Grind once with 1/8" disk. Genlty form into patties and cook soon ... preferably right after patties have warmed up to 60° or so.

Last week I tried to substitute short rib for the brisket. It was expensive (you pay for all that bone), but based on my love of short rib I thought this would be the holy hand-grenade of burger blends. It was strangely bland, though. Not sure why.

Some other blends that have worked well include skirt steak, top sirloin, and flank. Chuck always works well. If you can get a well marbled chuck eye, that may be the most flavorful.

edit: if you salt before grinding as i described, be sure to wash the grinder as soon as possible to keep the metal from corroding.

Edited by paulraphael, 07 June 2009 - 02:26 PM.

[Heartsurgeon]

i've done some different grinds using

brisket
short rib
chuck
sirloin


so far, the tastiest was
1/3 chuck
1/3 brisket
1/3 chuck

use the largest die (insert) on the grinder, grind only once.
cut all the meat into small cubes, and lightly freeze
when grind at a low speed, add a small amount ( a few ml's) of cold water every now and then when grinding the meat.

after that, your on your own!

i'm still experimenting with the grinds, and i'm planning on adding a binding agent like
bread crumbs, because i'm not happy with the way the plain grind stays together.

i will eventually add some internal seasonings as well (minced garlic, spice), but i haven't yet, as i am trying to determine the tastiest meat grind first, before i start
modifying the seasonings. for now it's been salt and pepper on the exterior only.

[paulraphael]

so far, the tastiest was
1/3 chuck
1/3 brisket
1/3 chuck

... is that what you meant?

[weinoo]

I often grind my own hamburger meat, as it seems that the freshness of the grind is one of the most important factors in how good your burgers taste.

Sometimes, I'm able to talk my butcher into parting with some eye of chuck - but last week, I decided to experiment and bought 2 lbs. of chuck and a pound of skirt steak...total cost was about $9.

Here's what the results looked like - and they tasted mighty fine too...

Hand shaped patty:


Pan frying in really hot cast iron pan:


On a toasted Martin's Potato Roll:

[paulraphael]

Here's what the results looked like - and they tasted mighty fine too...

yeah, that fresh, bright red color. once you get spoiled by that, all the other ground meat just looks ... gray.

[paulraphael]

Ok, I might have have found the holy grail. At least I'm done monkeying around.

In an earlier post, I suggested 2/3 chuck and 1/3 brisket. I tried replacing the brisket with hanger steak.
Holy god. These were great burgers. Makes sense ... I can't think of a beef cut more flavorful than hanger.
I'd been experiementing with sirloin in the mix, but it wasn't adding much.

Here's what I liked best, by weight:
66% chuck (ideally chuck eye)
33% hanger (remove the connective tissue in the middle)
0.75% salt
0.25% black pepper

I'm finding it easiest to salt and pepper the meat before grinding. If you do this you don't have to physically mix it into the ground meat and risk overhandling it. Just be sure to clean the grinder right away, since salt is corrosive.

[dougal]

...
In an earlier post, I suggested 2/3 chuck and 1/3 brisket. I tried replacing the brisket with hanger steak.
Holy god. These were great burgers. Makes sense ... I can't think of a beef cut more flavorful than hanger.
...

Interestingly -

2. Hanger steak (same as onglet); £14.95 per kg What is it: 'It's a marvellous loin cut, but in Britain it's one of the first things into the stainless steel bucket (for mince).' It hangs from the diaphragm and doesn't do anything, thus it's tender with massive flavour. Aesthetically it looks unattractive, but a good knife and butcher will transform it into a beauty.

http://www.metro.co....3&in_page_id=26

[Heartsurgeon]

sorry about the gibberish i posted above.

i have tried various grinds of:

brisket
chuck
sirloin
shoulder
short rib
loin tips

best so far has been
1/3 brisket
1/3 sirloin
1/3 chuck

cubed, lightly frozen, run through the grinder with the large hole insert, a single time.
i add a small amount of cold water to the cubes as they are being ground.
salt and pepper the surface
medium heat in canola oil to get a crust on both sides, flip once, serve'em medium rare/bloody.

still trying different mixes.

[alm]

I was feeling flush, and wanted to make a burger so i had my butcher mince/grind up some sirlion.

This sirloin mince (ground sirlion) was then just shaped into patties/burgers and fried with no added ingredients apart from a little salt and pepper - they were delicious, better than any burger i have made before.

Now, when i got the butcher to mince/grind up the sirloin, he rolled his eyes and told me it was a waste of meat - so what should i have used?

tell me your recipes and cuts that you make your ultimate burger from...

[deltadoc]

How many times I've read threads about grinding one's own hamburger and what cuts to use, etc.

I've been trying to duplicate the hamburger that used to sell for $0.19/lb for regular and $0.29 for lean when I was a kid in the 1950's.

Here's some observations:

1. The meat today isn't the same. They used to pasture feed the cattle, bring'em into the barn when they were about 2-3 years old, finish them off on corn, grain and beets for 2-3 months. Then to the butcher who hung the meat and (what is now called) dry-aged it.

2. Maybe some stores add blood, but where they gettin' the blood? I think it is the fact that most meat today is cryovac'd when it is aged, which means it doesn't dry out, and has a lot of blood in it already. When its ground, you're getting that blood. They don't have to add more.

3. THe closest I've come to hamburger of the old days is 1:1:1 ratio of prime sirloin, choice chuck, and tenderloin strap (sans silverskin). I use my KA mixer grinder with the fine sieve and grind only once. It does help to have the meat slightly cold but not frozen. Grinds better. I've had room temperature meat, especially from meat that had been mechanically tenderized before I bought it turn into Vet's Dog food consistency. Yuck!

Fry the burger on one side until it is brown half way up the side of the burger, Turn it over, turn down the heat, add S&P, and slow fry it until done. Works very well every time.

ANd try as I might, I've never mastered being able to completely rid the meat of gristly bits, tendon bits, and other objectionable stuff. Ya just never know what's really hidden in those thick fat veins, especially in chuck roasts.

That's probably why I like to add the tenderloin strap as it is usually very fatty, and most of the time, the silverskin is easy to remove. However, with that said, there are times when the silverskin seems to just riddle all through the strap. Bummer!

ANyway, I trim a lot of suspicious fat from the chuck just to be more certain I don't get chewy crunchy bits in my hamburger. The fat from the tenderloin makes up for that, and the sirloin adds a meaty flavor that "beefs" up the taste. No pun intended.

doc

[qrn]

I don't buy specific meat cuts for burgers, I go to the "used meat" section of the market, (stuff that is on sale because its at, or ,nearly out of date..
I buy whatever "looks good",,, Key being, that It needs to have a suitable amount of fat in it , and still be red, and not discolored...
Take it home and grind it in a 3/8" plate hand grinder,after trimming the obvious gristle,and/or excess fat, and away we go....

Bud

[Blether]

Hi, Deltadoc. I enjoyed reading your post, but as a Brit (60's vintage) I don't understand your term 'tenderloin strap'. Would you mind explaining ?

[scubadoo97]

And try as I might, I've never mastered being able to completely rid the meat of gristly bits, tendon bits, and other objectionable stuff. Ya just never know what's really hidden in those thick fat veins, especially in chuck roasts.

I don't seem to have that problem. I do seperate the muscles on a chuck or other cut and remove any silverskin between muscle groups as well as loose connective tissue. I only like to add the hard white fat. The only other fat is intramuscular. That extra step of cleaning helps remove all the unwanted stuff that usually wraps around the auger of the grinder.

For cuts for burgers i like chuck, sirloin and brisket. Sirloin by it self is just a little too lean but adds a good beefy flavor.

[paulraphael]

I was feeling flush, and wanted to make a burger so i had my butcher mince/grind up some sirlion.

I've tried sirloin in the mix and found it added a lot of expense but not much flavor. I was trying to figure out why some of the better restaurants include sirloin in the mix; Mitch (Weinoo) guessed that these restaurants all do their own butchery and use their trim for the ground beef. That's as good a guess as any of mine. If you don't happen to have a bunch of sirloin trim around, I wouldn't buy it specifically for burgers.

I'd say there are three factors in a burger blend: fat, flavor, and price.
-Burgers need 15% to 20% fat, depending on cooking method, level of doneness, and personal preference. You need to work it out so any leaner ingredients get balanced out by the fattier ones.
-Flavor is of course the whole point. Some cuts have much, much more than other. Some have flavor that we traditionally associate with burgers, others less so.
-Price: don't grind up expensive meat! As soon as you catch yourself walking toward the grinder with a dry-aged, prime ribeye, it's time to find someone to talk you down.

There's a reason we love chuck so much ... all by itself it fits all these criteria. It tastes good. Good quality chuck tastes like a good quality burger. It has the right amount of fat. It's cheap.

Something like tenderloin fails all three. It's too lean, has too little flavor, and costs too much.

When we add meat to the chuck, it's generally because we want MORE flavor. This should narrow things down quite a bit. What cuts have more flavor than chuck? Which ones would taste good in a burger? Which ones are fatty enough to hold up their end of the bargain? Which are cheap enough?

As I said before, my personal holy grail is hanger steak, but I think these questions could lead you in a few other interesting directions. Especially if your butcher ever has anything special on sale, or if you find yourself with a bunch of trim.

[deltadoc]

The tenderloin strap is found on whole untrimmed tenderloins, roughly starting about the middle of the whole tenderloin and running down to the tail end. If you're lucky, it has a single layer of silverskin under it. Many times you can almost pull the strap off and it usually is very fatty, having lots of little "balls" of fat on it.

doc

[Blether]

Thanks

[weinoo]

I was feeling flush, and wanted to make a burger so i had my butcher mince/grind up some sirlion.

There's a reason we love chuck so much ... all by itself it fits all these criteria. It tastes good. Good quality chuck tastes like a good quality burger. It has the right amount of fat. It's cheap.

Not that we want to give anything away, but Paul and I both know a butcher who specifically grinds the eye of chuck for a specific restaurant's hamburgers - and they are considered in the top burger echelon of NYC.

Some of the time the chuck being ground is from a prime steer. And he's even been know to cut a couple of steaks from that type of steer for me - they're almost as good as a rib steak.

[Phaz]

I've had awesome success with The Food Lab's Blue Label Burger Blend. He did a lot of testing with 8 cuts of meat and found a great blend is 6oz of sirloin, 5 oz brisket and 12 oz of oxtail (trimmed comes out to about 5oz).

The oxtail is hard to work with, especially when making 10 pounds of this stuff, but it's amazing.

[Chris Amirault]

I had quite a bit of fat trimmed from some American kobe strip steaks (that I stuck in the Sous Vide Supreme), so I ground that with about 2/3s chuck and 1/3 brisket last week. Heavenly.

[mkayahara]

I don't make hamburgers very often, I guess mostly because I'm never that satisfied with them when I do. (To my mind, nothing could ever top the incredible-in-my-memory griddled hamburger from the greasy spoon I frequented in high school.)

But I have a hankering, so I'm wondering if I can get help with two items in particular:

1) Do I season the meat before/during grinding? Or just season the finished patty? (I assume seasoning the already-ground meat is out, since distributing it then risks overworking the meat.)

2) I always find that my homemade hamburger patties tend to contract as they cook, so that what started out as a flat patty tends to end up more like a flattened meatball in shape. What am I doing wrong? Overworking the meat? Not giving them a sufficient width-to-height ratio in the first place?

Edit: I think it should go without saying that I'm not feeling up to the whole Modernist Cuisine align-the-meat-strands approach here. I want the second-best technique, please!

Edited by mkayahara, 21 June 2012 - 12:54 PM.

[Chris Hennes]

There are three points you can season the meat, IMO: each works, but each requires different technique. First, you can season just before grinding. This has the advantage of allowing the grinding to distribute the meat, but the disadvantage of requiring extra care when forming the patties to avoid hockey-puck syndrome because the salt causes the beef to become stickier. This option is great if you are forming and cooking right away, not so great if you are grinding a couple hours ahead.

Second, you can season just before forming: fresh-ground beef is relatively loose and mixing the seasoning in without overworking the meat is not that difficult, just sort of toss the beef with your fingers. You will want to form the patties immediately after this step.

Third, you can season just before or just after cooking: this works best for thin patties. Thicker patties will be underseasoned in the middle and overseasoned at the edges.

Regarding the contraction: make a shallow depression in the center of the burger so that the raw patty is thinner in the middle than in the edges, and make sure you don't overcook it.

[mkayahara]

Ah, yeah, overcooking makes sense in terms of contraction. I've been guilty of that more than once.

Do you use a particular ratio for seasoning?

Thanks for the pointers!

[Chris Hennes]

Yes, I swear by paulraphael's blend: 0.75% salt and 0.25% black pepper.

[mkayahara]

Awesome, thank you!

[Pierogi]

Grating (yes, using a box grater) about 1/4 of a large onion into the meat before you form the patties does a couple of things. First, it helps to season it, and second, the juice from the onion, which you actually get more of than the onion flesh itself, helps to keep the meat moist. I salt and pepper pretty heavily before I mix the onion in, with a little less salt if I'm pan grilling in a cast-iron skillet. In that case, I salt the skillet liberally, so I ease back on the salt in the mix. If I'm outdoor grilling, grill panning or broiling, I salt the raw mix heavily. Use a light hand (some say fingertips only) to mix in the grated onion and S&P. I suppose you could throw in some herbs and grated garlic at this point, too, but I like my burgers without those extra flavors. Then, the dimple in the middle makes ALL the difference in the world. ALL the difference. It goes from tough, bulge-y little hockey puck, to bun-sized, juicy burger with that magic dimple.

[Chris Hennes]

If you're in the mood for an herbed burger, check out the one in Dorie Greenspan's Around My French Table. It's an excellent, albeit completely unconventional, recipe.

[Mr Holloway]

We have been using nice fatty chuck roasts
Sometimes I add some bacon into the grind.
Fish sauce is my secret weapon

Shane

Edited by Mr Holloway, 22 June 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[mkayahara]

Thanks to Chris' help, the burgers I made last night came out beautifully. I used just some great blade (= chuck) steaks with a good amount of fat, double ground, adding the 0.75% salt and 0.25% pepper for the second grind. (Conveniently, I was working with exactly a kilo of meat, which made the calculations easy.) Lightly formed into 6 patties with a dimple in the middle, and grilled to medium. They didn't contract, they were just as moist and fatty as they should be, and they just tasted all-around great. I ate two. I'm a little worried that I've set a precedent here for summer grilling.