Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the society.

Photo

Heavy Cream, not ultra-pasteurized


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 13 February 2006 - 02:28 PM

So, I am tired of looking for the stuff! Every so often I run into a recipe that specifies to use pasteurized heavy cream (NOT ULTRA-PASTEURIZED). I know this supposedly whips better then the ultra stuff that has been heated to a much higher degree. It also is supposed to taste better, right? My questions are, is it worth searching for? And where the heck do you buy it? I looked everywhere from local stores to supermarkets to high end fancy gourmet stores where I buy stuff like goose fat, and amazing Irish butter among other things. No one carries anything but ultra pasteurized. Sure that latest store might have 6 or 7 different brands of it but no none-ultra pasteurized.

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#2 WhiteTruffleGirl

WhiteTruffleGirl
  • participating member
  • 208 posts

Posted 13 February 2006 - 02:41 PM

They sell it at Trader Joes, or at least at some Trader Joes...

Edited by WhiteTruffleGirl, 13 February 2006 - 02:42 PM.


#3 SweetSide

SweetSide
  • participating member
  • 513 posts
  • Location:Connecticut

Posted 13 February 2006 - 02:51 PM

They sell it at some Whole Foods as well. And, we use it at work, and in my opinion it does whip better and taste better. Ours is also a full 40% fat version, so that may be part of the difference as well.

Once you get the good stuff (of anything -- cream, chocolate, brown sugar), going back stinks!
Cheryl, The Sweet Side

#4 andiesenji

andiesenji
  • society donor
  • 9,486 posts
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 13 February 2006 - 08:38 PM

I get Manufacturers Cream in half gallons, which is the same thing, at Smart & Final. Call around and see if you can find a restaurant/mom & pop/caterer's supply place.
It works extremely well for whipping and it is essential for cream sauces because it does not break as easily as lower fat creams.
Because it is not ultra-pasteurized, it does have a shorter shelf life but I manage to use it up and sometimes even freeze it - I add a little sugar to it before freezing - about a tablespoon per quart. I don't recall who advised me to do this but it does work.

I also use Trader Joes Heavy Cream in the plastic bottles.

I tried the "Organic" heavy cream at Whole Foods and decided it was not worth the astronomical price!
"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett
My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

#5 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 13 February 2006 - 10:38 PM

The 40% cream at Trader Joes is great stuff. That said, at Bellagio, we purposely used ultra-pasturized cream with a lower fat content for whipped cream because it whipped better and held longer. We use the same cream at Robuchon for everything. Go figure.

#6 scott123

scott123
  • participating member
  • 1,369 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:18 AM

They sell it at Trader Joes, or at least at some Trader Joes...

View Post


Brand?

I thought the heavy cream I was buying at Trader Joes, Garelick, was only pasteurized, but the labeling recently changed and it now says ultra-pasteurized. Since the taste is the same (doesn't taste any more cooked) and it reacts the same way when whipped, I'm guessing it was ultra-pasteurized all the time. I don't think there's any regulations forcing a company to label their cream "ultra-pasteurized." It can be ultra-pasteurized but still only say 'pasteurized' on the label. Needless to say, I'm a little bummed that what I thought was special cream ended up being garbage cream all along. I love Trader Joes, but this is definitely a black mark. I doubt that Garelick is national. If your Trader Joe's heavy cream only says 'pasteurized,' don't fall for it. Call the manufacturer and find out for certain. Dollars to doughnuts... it won't be.

The other cream I was using, Welsh Farms, recently switched to ultra-pasteurized.

I hate to say it, but I think pasteurized cream is not long for this world. It'll be a sad sad day when that occurs.

The only non ultra pasteurized cream I can get my hands on is the locally produced plastic bottled stuff at Whole Paycheck. I'm not paying that much money for cream. Not the way I use it.

#7 scott123

scott123
  • participating member
  • 1,369 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 02:26 AM

Because it is not ultra-pasteurized, it does have a shorter shelf life but I manage to use it up and sometimes even freeze it - I add a little sugar to it before freezing - about a tablespoon per quart.

View Post


Have you had the pasteurized stuff go bad on you? I've never had any of the pasteurized cream go bad on me and I go months past the expiration date. It gets lumpy from the fat separating from the water, but a brisk stir resolves that.

Even with the innovative approach of adding sugar to it for freezing, I'm sure there's a certain amount of impairment. You might want to hold on to your cream a little longer and see what happens. If it turns, I'd be very surprised.

#8 A Patric

A Patric
  • participating member
  • 471 posts
  • Location:Columbia, MO

Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:13 AM

Hello,

I don't think I've seen anyone mention: visit a farm. There are plenty of small dairy farms within a reasonable driving distance of most areas of the US (and I assume many other countries) that would have--get ready for this--non-pasteurized cream, that they could sell you. I imagine that even on the outskirts of a city like New York there should be a few small dairy farms. A phone call or two to some of these should clarify what they offer and in what amounts.

Alan

#9 MelissaH

MelissaH
  • participating member
  • 1,436 posts
  • Location:Central New York via NEO, CO, Pittsburgh

Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:12 AM

Gosh, I guess I should consider myself lucky. Our local dairy store, Byrne Dairy, carries mostly normal pasteurized cream. They're barely a mile and a half from my house, and I don't even think about getting cream elsewhere.

MelissaH
MelissaH
Oswego, NY
Chemist, writer, hired gun

Say this five times fast: "A big blue bucket of blue blueberries."

foodblog1 | kitchen reno | foodblog2

#10 andiesenji

andiesenji
  • society donor
  • 9,486 posts
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:27 PM

Because it is not ultra-pasteurized, it does have a shorter shelf life but I manage to use it up and sometimes even freeze it - I add a little sugar to it before freezing - about a tablespoon per quart.

View Post


Have you had the pasteurized stuff go bad on you? I've never had any of the pasteurized cream go bad on me and I go months past the expiration date. It gets lumpy from the fat separating from the water, but a brisk stir resolves that.

Even with the innovative approach of adding sugar to it for freezing, I'm sure there's a certain amount of impairment. You might want to hold on to your cream a little longer and see what happens. If it turns, I'd be very surprised.

View Post


Oh yeah! It goes bad and can get very nasty. However I usually prepare it with a culture and make butter or cream cheese if it gets near the "turning" point. I have very sensitive taste and nose for these things. I often buy several half gallons at a time when I plan on making cheese because I mix it with an organic "raw" milk, which is the only type of raw milk available locally. I pasteurize the raw milk myself (I have an electric pasteurizer). The place where I buy it separates the cream from the milk right in the milking system and all the cream is sold on contract to a commercial place so goes straight into sealed containers for transport. The only way I can get whole milk from them is if they take the time to milk a cow by hand and since they increased their herd to over 200, they no longer have that time.
However, when I add the manufacturer's cream to the (home pasteurized) skim milk , it makes lovely cheeses, yogurt, butter and etc. I do buy commercial cultures for some of these.

I grew up on a farm and have been handling all types of milk and cream for well over 50 years. However, I still have a lot to learn. One can never know enough.

My main complaint with the ultra-pasteurized cream is that it does not "hold" as well as the other unless a stabilizer such as
Whip-It is added. I always have several packets of this around just in case.

Many times, when I have used the ultra-pasteurized, the stuff does whip up nicely, however if i attempt to hold it in the refrigerator for longer than an hour or so, I find a watery liquid in the bottom of the bowl and the volume has reduced significantly.

Edited by andiesenji, 15 February 2006 - 12:27 PM.

"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett
My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

#11 andiesenji

andiesenji
  • society donor
  • 9,486 posts
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:35 PM

Gosh, I guess I should consider myself lucky. Our local dairy store, Byrne Dairy, carries mostly normal pasteurized cream. They're barely a mile and a half from my house, and I don't even think about getting cream elsewhere.

MelissaH

View Post


You are lucky, Melissa. At one time there were several dairy farms in the San Fernando Valley and when I moved up here in 1988 there were some here that would sell to walk-ins. However the 1990 change in California law regarding dairy products, and the extremely restrictive Los Angeles County Health Department regulations that were enacted the same year, made it more difficult and more expensive for small producers. Ridiculous regulations that really do nothing to protect the public and which forced many to cease operations, go bankrupt or move to another state. Two farms, where I used to purchase milk, eggs, freshly killed hens, ducks, game birds, are now tracts of homes. One family moved to Utah, the other to Montana.
I am so disgusted with our overbearing "big brother" bureaucracy, I am about ready to scream. Last year's ban of wild mushrooms was just one more bit of evidence that we are being protected beyond any rational point.
"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett
My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

#12 k43

k43
  • participating member
  • 292 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 01:10 PM

Once you get the good stuff (of anything -- cream, chocolate, brown sugar), going back stinks!

View Post


So, SweetSide --

Please give us your Good Stuff brands for chocolate and brown sugar.

#13 kitwilliams

kitwilliams
  • participating member
  • 981 posts
  • Location:southern california

Posted 15 February 2006 - 01:26 PM

Both Trader Joe's heavy cream (in the one pint plastic bottles) and many "manufacturing" creams (such as Alta Dena here in California) have carragean or guar gum added to them. This, of course, helps stabilize your cream. Whenever I see "manufacturing" on the label, I get curious and always look at the ingredients.

Check your labels...I'm interested to hear what you all find.
kit

"I'm bringing pastry back"
Weebl

#14 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 03:07 PM

Both Trader Joe's heavy cream (in the one pint plastic bottles) and many "manufacturing" creams (such as Alta Dena here in California) have carragean or guar gum added to them.  This, of course, helps stabilize your cream.  Whenever I see "manufacturing" on the label, I get curious and always look at the ingredients.

Check your labels...I'm interested to hear what you all find.

View Post

hmm...mine, from a local Texas store chain, only has skim milk and cream. I guess they control the fat levels using the skim milk?

oh! and it has the serious warning: CONTAINS MILK. You know, in case some lactose intolerant customer does not know that cream that has skim milk contains milk. :wacko:

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#15 SweetSide

SweetSide
  • participating member
  • 513 posts
  • Location:Connecticut

Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:26 PM

Once you get the good stuff (of anything -- cream, chocolate, brown sugar), going back stinks!

View Post


So, SweetSide --

Please give us your Good Stuff brands for chocolate and brown sugar.

View Post



For "store brand" chocolate, I use Ghirardelli, but at store levels, volume ends up being pricey. I also like Valrhona Guanaja for 70% chocolate and Cacao Barry Mi Amere 58% semi-sweet and Guittard L'Harmonie 64% chocolate.

For brown sugar, I like Billingtons and India Tree. Not cheap at $5/lb.

For kids and the bake sales, where most people won't notice the difference, I go for the standard fare. For special occasions or where I'm serving people who know good food, I spend the extra $$.
Cheryl, The Sweet Side

#16 SweetSide

SweetSide
  • participating member
  • 513 posts
  • Location:Connecticut

Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:28 PM

Both Trader Joe's heavy cream (in the one pint plastic bottles) and many "manufacturing" creams (such as Alta Dena here in California) have carragean or guar gum added to them.  This, of course, helps stabilize your cream.  Whenever I see "manufacturing" on the label, I get curious and always look at the ingredients.

Check your labels...I'm interested to hear what you all find.

View Post

hmm...mine, from a local Texas store chain, only has skim milk and cream. I guess they control the fat levels using the skim milk?

oh! and it has the serious warning: CONTAINS MILK. You know, in case some lactose intolerant customer does not know that cream that has skim milk contains milk. :wacko:

View Post


Mine, from Dairyland, contains cream and really is only pasteurized.

However, my nuts (pecans in this case) may contain tree nuts and are manufactured in a plant that processes tree nuts and peanuts among other things.
Love those new labels! :laugh:
Cheryl, The Sweet Side

#17 andiesenji

andiesenji
  • society donor
  • 9,486 posts
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:46 PM

As long as it is just carrageenan and not something with an incomprehensible chemical name, I am okay with it.
From various sites "food glossary" including Hormel.
Carrageenan
A group of related carbohydrates produced naturally by boiling red seaweed. Three types of carrageenan are extracted from seaweed, which are Kappa, Iota and Lambda, each with distinct properties to assist with the processing and development of food products. Most often, carrageenans are utilized as: 1) emulsifiers, keeping liquids mixed together so they do not seperate such as salad dressings; 2) as stabilizers to assist with the keeping foods in a solid or non-crystalized state; and 3)as thickening agents for a variety of food items such as milk, ice cream, puddings, syrups, marshallow fluff, and other food items.

Trader Joe's also included a notice on the bottle that the cows that produce the cream are not fed hormones or artificial growth stiumlators. Bht and such.
"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett
My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

#18 etalanian

etalanian
  • participating member
  • 538 posts
  • Location:Philadelphia area

Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:21 PM

Another plus for non-ultra-pasteurized cream is that you can make homemade creme fraiche with it, and you cannot make it with ultra-pasteurized cream. I make my own creme fraiche and always have a crock of it in the fridge. It's great for making sauces - won't separate. And it's a nice ingredient for many desserts. It's also good as a dollop with many desserts.

I sometimes get my non-ultra from Trader Joe's when I need it right away and the local farmers' market isn't open. I get cream from Merrymeade Farms (a local, small dairy) at the farmers' market.

Eileen
Eileen Talanian
[size="3"]HowThe Cookie Crumbles.com
HomemadeGourmetMarshmallows.com[/size]

[size="3"]As for butter versus margarine, I trust cows more than chemists. ~Joan Gussow[/size]

#19 ruthcooks

ruthcooks
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 1,107 posts

Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:32 PM

Many times, when I have used the ultra-pasteurized, the stuff does whip up nicely, however if i attempt to hold it in the refrigerator for longer than an hour or so, I find a watery liquid in the bottom of the bowl and the volume has reduced significantly.

View Post


I had this problem for years, until I recently read here on eG that the ultra-pasteurized stuff needed to be beaten longer. I whipped the devil out of it and to my surprise the cream stayed whipped until it was gone, about 4 days later.

My thanks to the person who posted that tip!
Ruth Dondanville aka "ruthcooks"

“Are you making a statement, or are you making dinner?” Mario Batali

#20 skyflyer3

skyflyer3
  • participating member
  • 248 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 17 February 2006 - 05:36 PM

Once you get the good stuff (of anything -- cream, chocolate, brown sugar), going back stinks!

View Post


So, SweetSide --

Please give us your Good Stuff brands for chocolate and brown sugar.

View Post



For "store brand" chocolate, I use Ghirardelli, but at store levels, volume ends up being pricey. I also like Valrhona Guanaja for 70% chocolate and Cacao Barry Mi Amere 58% semi-sweet and Guittard L'Harmonie 64% chocolate.

For brown sugar, I like Billingtons and India Tree. Not cheap at $5/lb.

For kids and the bake sales, where most people won't notice the difference, I go for the standard fare. For special occasions or where I'm serving people who know good food, I spend the extra $$.

View Post


Oh my goodness, Sweetside, you and I could be the same people. My go-to store brand is Guittard L'Harmonie (although I save it mostly for straight eating), and I use Billingtons and India Tree exclusively for my cookies while simultaneously complaining about the $$$.

Ok, I lied. My go-to brand is Trader Joe's Pound Plus Bitterweet. It is supposedly Belgian, and the only thing resembling quality chocolate at $3/lb. With the amount of baking I do, I need to buy good chocolate for cheap.

Is it possible to get better prices for better chocolate, without having to purchase 20 lbs at a time? Actually, I could probably do 20 lbs....Oh, and I've had bad experiences with Ghirardelli, so I don't go there.