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Diccionario Enciclopedico de Gastronomia mexicana

Mexican

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#31 theabroma

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 08:23 PM

The Cocina Indigena y Popular series (Popular means roughly lower class) varies in quality but who cares?


I'm a little confused here. None of my Spanish etymological dictionaries, including that of the Academia Real (sort of the Oxford English Dictionary of Spain), define popular as "lower class." It is, like its use in English, "popular" or "of the people." Perhaps "the people" means lower class and I was unaware of that.

To be sure the volumes contain a lot of wild plant eating and what can only be described as 'critter cuisine.' But one culture's critters is another's piece de resistance. Strange, but it is Zurita Munoz' wondrous Diccionario that explained to me what some of the more arcane foods in the Cocina Indigena were, where they were found, who ate them, and how they were/are prepared. That is precisely why it is the Diccionario of Mexican Gastronomy - the whole kit and kaboodle of it. I find myself wondering why CONACULTA would spend 54 volumes on the lower classes of the country. Not to mention the fact that there are recipes from the white tablecloth set included as well, eg: the Corn volume contains, among other things, a tamal which flavors its masa with praline paste (the French stuff, not the Creole New Orleans candy) and wild cherries.

It is 54 volumes of what the people have eaten, and continue to eat. And some of those people are from what are today considered the lower classes. But it is the length, breadth, depth, and height of Mexican gastronomy. And if Munoz Zurita does not disdain it, but rather embraces it, why should we?

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Theabroma
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#32 caroline

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Posted 27 January 2008 - 03:34 PM

Hi Sharon,

I agree that that's not what popular is translated as in dictionaries. But just last week a friend, when asked if I should take the grandkids to a certain swimming pool, replied no, "es muy popular" by which he did not mean just crowded but crowded with people he thought, for one reason or another, we would not feel comfortable with.

And certainly Iturriaga's series is not limited to that of clases populares; it's incredibly eclectic and all the better for being so. And certainly I for one would not want to denigrate any part of Mexican cuisine.

I simply put that note in to explain to English-speaking readers what I believe it would convey to Mexican readers. That this was not the cuisine of Mexican elites.

To ramble on, it seems to me that one reason it is often so difficult to understand cookbooks of Mexican cuisine written for non-Mexican audiences is that, like it or lump it, cuisine here is still very class based. Of course explaining that does not go down well with, say, Americans, though Diana Kennedy will occasionally let slip a phrase about the simple peasant cooking of her servants.

Anyway, I'll shut up because this ventures on to sensitive territory. But it's great to be in touch again,

Rachel
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#33 esperanza

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 08:55 PM

I agree completely with Rachel's explanation of 'popular'. If you read The Life and Times of Mexico, by Earl Shorris, you'll appreciate his comments about a Mexico divided between the corn culture and the wheat culture, or la tortilla y el pan, which is exactly what Rachel was talking about in her post: class division along culinary lines.

You bet that this is a sensitive topic, very sensitive here in Mexico and perhaps more sensitive in a country like the USA, which likes to pretend to be a classless society. However, turn over the rock of purported equality and in both countries we find the squirmy underbelly of what's real. Popular is not the romantic idea of "the people's" cooking, but the harsh reality of "el populacho" that's the truth here.

It's actually courageous of Conaculta to publish this series. Many of the ideas, recipes, and traditions included in these volumes are seriously disrespected by Mexicans of socioeconomic classes considered to be more refined than others. This lack of respect is the primary reason why it's all but impossible to find traditional Mexican food in restaurants both here in Mexico and in the USA. Eurocentrism was rampant here in Mexico for many long years. Now globalization and cultural imperialism are taking their toll on Mexico's cuisines. Fortunately there are influential people in Mexico's upper echelon food world who have finally awakened to the country's corn-based culinary heritage and who are fighting to rescue it.

Please read Mexico Cooks!, concentrating especially on the December postings re the Muestra de Gastronomía de Morelia, to learn more about this particularly compelling topic.

The author of the Diccionario Enciclopédico De Gastronomía Mexicana is Ricardo Muñoz Zurita. Later this month I'll be in the DF for several days and hope to have a chat with him about plans for a new edition of this monumental work. I'll post back here with any news.

Edited by esperanza, 01 February 2008 - 08:56 PM.

What's new at Mexico Cooks!?

#34 bjcohan

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 08:22 AM

I just ordered one through http://www.libroslatinos.com.  The order seemed to go through fine.  Now to see if they send the book!

Barb

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How wonderful that you found a copy of this incredible book. When I was at the FIL (International Book Fair) in Guadalajara in November, the publisher was out of copies. Let's hope the new edition comes out soon, and let's hope that there's also an English translation for those who need that.

God willing I will see Ricardo Muñoz in a couple of weeks and will talk with him about the new edition. Watch for news here...

In the meantime, you might like to have a look at Mexico Cooks! The current article is about Alicia Gironella and Giorgio de'Angeli, the extraordinary old guard of Mexico's cuisines.

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¡Ay, Esperanza!

I hope that, in your talks with Ricardo Muñoz Zurita, you learn that a new edition is coming out soon. Although libroslatinos.com took my order and still have the book on their site, they have sent nothing, have not charged my credit card, and will not respond to emailed messages. So I suppose my celebration was rather premature.

I will be in México in April and will be scouring bookstores there for any remaining copies.

Looking forward to news....

Barb
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#35 rancho_gordo

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 10:11 PM

I hope that, in your talks with Ricardo Muñoz Zurita, you learn that a new edition is coming out soon.  Although libroslatinos.com took my order and still have the book on their site, they have sent nothing, have not charged my credit card, and will not respond to emailed messages.  So I suppose my celebration was rather premature.

I will be in México in April and will be scouring bookstores there for any remaining copies. 

Looking forward to news....

Barb

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I got mine through them but it took about 9 months. They're great people and very helpful. I'm sure they've been bombarded with queries since La Laudan wrote it up in Saveur magazine. I'd call and ask what they think.

I don't want to be discouraging but I scour the food sections of bookstores as an obsession in DF, Guadalajara, Puebla, Guanajuato and more and I've never seen it. But I've noticed a slew of previously OP books available all of a sudden, as if a storage vault were let free. So who knows?

I thought I heard the revised version is coming out really soon.
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#36 caroline

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 04:06 PM

I'm not sure Steve. When I saw Ricardo in February he was full of gloom about writing cookbooks and foodbooks in Mexico since all of his are out of print.

Rachel
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#37 rancho_gordo

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 02:35 PM

I'm not sure Steve.  When I saw Ricardo in February he was full of gloom about writing cookbooks and foodbooks in Mexico since all of his are out of print.

Rachel

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That is bad news, indeed!
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#38 bjcohan

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Posted 31 March 2008 - 09:52 AM


I hope that, in your talks with Ricardo Muñoz Zurita, you learn that a new edition is coming out soon.  Although libroslatinos.com took my order and still have the book on their site, they have sent nothing, have not charged my credit card, and will not respond to emailed messages.  So I suppose my celebration was rather premature.

I will be in México in April and will be scouring bookstores there for any remaining copies. 

Looking forward to news....

Barb

View Post


I got mine through them but it took about 9 months. They're great people and very helpful. I'm sure they've been bombarded with queries since La Laudan wrote it up in Saveur magazine. I'd call and ask what they think.

I don't want to be discouraging but I scour the food sections of bookstores as an obsession in DF, Guadalajara, Puebla, Guanajuato and more and I've never seen it. But I've noticed a slew of previously OP books available all of a sudden, as if a storage vault were let free. So who knows?

I thought I heard the revised version is coming out really soon.

View Post


¡Ojalá! I'll be in México on Saturday. Hopefully I'll return with good news.

Barb

Edited by bjcohan, 31 March 2008 - 09:54 AM.

Barb Cohan-Saavedra
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#39 Ruth in Condechi

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 05:30 PM

Update:

It doesn't look good for another printing. The research and work to update the Diccionario is on going but no date for another edition.

My advice is, if you see any copies, anywhere of Ricardo's books, grab it.
I just found out that the Fundacion Herdez, whose Museum is located just to the side of the Catedral Metropolitana here in D.F., has copies of Ricardo's book Verde (part of a series called Verde, Blanco y Rojo).
His books are grand works, covering aspects most "Mexican" cookbooks don't.

Good luck to those still looking.

#40 bjcohan

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 10:07 PM

Oh, happy, happy, happy day!!!!

My brother-in-law called from Mexico City to tell me that he has found me a copy of the Diccionario!!!!! It seems that my nephew, a budding chef in the D.F., has a friend who has a friend who knows someone... you know how it goes.

In any event, this chamaco had THREE copies and was willing to part with one, and my nephew grabbed it for me! Tomorrow, he will see if he can get the guy to part with another. If I can snag more than one I will let you guys know.

On my DH's last trip home, he did manage to get me 7 or 8 of the serialized segments and a box in which to store them. Those are also glorious and did much to whet my appetite for the whole book. They are simply gorgeous.

FWIW, I still haven't heard a peep out of libroslatinos.com...

Barb
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#41 esperanza

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 02:31 PM

BIG NEWS:

Ricardo called me on Tuesday. The revised Enciclopedia de Gastronomía Mexicana will be published in mid-2009. It will include about 200 pages more than the currently out-of-print edition. Larousse will publish the new edition.

You heard it here first!
What's new at Mexico Cooks!?

#42 docsconz

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Posted 17 October 2008 - 04:44 PM

BIG NEWS:

Ricardo called me on Tuesday.  The revised Enciclopedia de Gastronomía Mexicana will be published in mid-2009.  It will include about 200 pages more than the currently out-of-print edition.  Larousse will publish the new edition.

You heard it here first!

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Great news! Will it be in Spanish only or will there be an English edition?
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#43 bjcohan

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Posted 18 October 2008 - 03:07 PM

BIG NEWS:

Ricardo called me on Tuesday.  The revised Enciclopedia de Gastronomía Mexicana will be published in mid-2009.  It will include about 200 pages more than the currently out-of-print edition.  Larousse will publish the new edition.

You heard it here first!

View Post



That's really exciting news!

Do I have lousy timing or what? I read your post just after I wired a bunch of money to the D.F. for my book, after searching all over Mexico for months. Ah, well. I'll keep it in pristine condition and either sell it or give it to someone as a gift once the new edition becomes available. <sigh>

Barb
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#44 bjcohan

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 09:57 AM

I GOT MY BOOKS!

My books arrived from México yesterday!

I'm not sure whether I will sell the other copy or just keep it in our restaurant to help me explain to our customers some of the unfamiliar ingredients my DH puts into savory dishes and I put into desserts.

OMG, what a treasure!!! It cost quite a bit, but I must say it was worth every penny. As soon as I opened it, I learned to stop discarding the seed of the mamey. I never knew those gorgeous seeds were called pixtle or that they could be used in other dishes!

I cannot wait to read it, cover to cover!

I searched for this for more than a year, and it was worth the wait! Now I will look forward to the next edition with all those extra pages!

Barb
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#45 docsconz

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Posted 05 November 2008 - 10:21 AM

Ricardo will be presenting at Madrifd Fusión in January. His topic will be "Mexican Soups, a Very Contemporary Tradition."
John Sconzo, M.D. aka "docsconz"

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#46 Ruth in Condechi

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 06:57 PM

Ricardo Munoz Zuritas much in demand book Diccionario Enciclopedico De Gastronomia Mexicana is scheduled for a new printing summer of 2009 by Larousse Mexico publishers.

This is welcome news, especially since he has added at least another 200 pages to this best seller.

Can't wait!!!!

#47 bjcohan

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 08:27 PM

Today I checked the website for Larousse México and there is still no sign of Chef Muñoz's book. They do, however, have the Larousse book of Salsas, authored by Chef Muñoz. It's 96 pages and the site says it is available only in México.
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#48 rancho_gordo

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 11:10 AM

The salsa book is great, but I am almost sure I saw it on Amazon.
RuthinCOndechi has 2 copies of the Diccionario, from what I hear.
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#49 kalypso

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 10:01 AM

Mi amigo DanielO and his lovely wife spent Christmas in Oaxaca. They returned with the new, updated edition of Ricardo Muñoz Zurita's Diccionario Enciclopédico. They dropped it off last night and I've been enthralled ever since. From A to Z in 644 pages, it is everything you could possibly ever want to know about Mexican cooking, ingredients, regions, recipes, dishes, utensils, fiestas, food related traditions and more. I've always been fond of Larousse publications and their handling of the new Diccionario was striking. It's easy to use, well laid out and love the addition of nice color photos, including some really fun vintage photos.

Diccionario Enciclopedico.jpg

One of the new features in this edition are the charts
- 5 pages listing Antojitos by name, main ingredients and the origin or where they are typically eaten
- 7 pages listing all the drinks, main ingredients, the process by how the drink is produced, variations, origin, and whether or not it is alcoholic
- 6 pages listing fresh and dried chiles by name, other names and where they are produced and/or eaten. The dried chile chart also lists the name of the fresh chile
- 5+ pages listing moles
- 4+ pages listing all the mushrooms by name, scientific name and the many alternative names for mushrooms throughout the Republic

So far, this appears to be a beautiful and very useful update to a book that was already a pretty phenomenal resource. For anyone who is a serious student of Mexican cooking and cuisine, this book is a tremendous asset.


Yes, it is in Spanish

#50 rgruby

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 10:41 AM

Anybody know if this is being translated into English?

I thought there was a thread on here that suggested that was the case?

Cheers,
Geoff

#51 rancho_gordo

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

I am holding in my hand the new version! Thanks to a very good friend who dragged it back from Mexico for me (it is HEAVY) I now have it.
The cover isn't as bad as I had been led to believe. It's a little too simple but it's fine and serious. The inside looks great and the images look more like they're from the same source instead of all over the map.
I immediately went to the bean section and it's a little disappointing as I found one mistake right off the bat and they sometimes use the Latin names for the beans and sometimes not. There are only a few so each bean listed deserves recognition.
I don't see the extra 200 pages that are in it but I don't have my old copy here for comparison. It looks and feels about the same size, but the graphics are tighter and it's the same mix of small entries and longer ones.
It's going to be hours of fun.
The big question is whether to replace your old version or not. And do you wait for the English version. I;m keeping them all.
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#52 rancho_gordo

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:48 AM

OK- was up to the wee hours reading. It's incredible and recommended. But I think they should run the frijoles section by me first for the next edition.
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#53 danielito

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

Yes, Chef Muñoz has been working on a English translation and it's a daunting task. I've heard he's working with the University of Texas Press and cookbook author Marilyn Tausend, who has a number of beautiful cookbooks on Mexican cuisine to her name.
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#54 Jaymes

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:58 AM

Is anyone aware of a location in the US where I might buy it?

#55 peterm2

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

I would certainly love to get an English copy.

#56 rancho_gordo

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 12:32 PM

Ta da! 

Looks like Amazon is getting it this Oct. 

After living with it for awhile, I do have to say I'm keeping my old one as well. But this one is great (despite kind of cheap printing) and the price is nice!


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#57 Jaymes

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:05 AM

Ta da! 

Looks like Amazon is getting it this Oct. 

After living with it for awhile, I do have to say I'm keeping my old one as well. But this one is great (despite kind of cheap printing) and the price is nice!

 

Want to thank you for this "heads up."

 

I did indeed go to Amazon and get on the list to receive one when it becomes available.



#58 mukki

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Posted 17 August 2013 - 03:57 PM

Ta da! 
Looks like Amazon is getting it this Oct. 
After living with it for awhile, I do have to say I'm keeping my old one as well. But this one is great (despite kind of cheap printing) and the price is nice!

So, is this an English or Spanish version? Amazon says English, but the title is obviously Spanish. Have pre-ordered, but hoping for English...

#59 rancho_gordo

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:20 PM

It's the Spanish version. 


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#60 lochaven

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 10:46 AM

Ricardo Munoz interview on youtube.  FYI it's in Spanish.

 

--


Edited by lochaven, 31 August 2013 - 10:47 AM.

And I want a table for two and a chicken for eight o'clock.





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