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Please help with cannele recipe


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#151 Wendy DeBord

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 06:17 AM

I had wondered if you oven was running a little hot Seth......which is hard to tell sometimes unless you use multiple ovens. When your exterior is baking faster then the interior, that's your hint....and you seemed to say that earlier.

Thank-you for doing that experiment Seth! It makes me want to try this also. Your great at simplifying and de-mystifying things!

#152 SethG

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 06:56 AM

I had wondered if you oven was running a little hot Seth......which is hard to tell sometimes unless you use multiple ovens. When your exterior is baking faster then the interior, that's your hint....and you seemed to say that earlier.

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I actually did turn my oven down about 25 degrees... to 400, as Paula recommends. My oven thermometer died a while ago, but it used to be that my oven ran 25 degrees too cold, not hot. Lately I've been wondering if it's gone the opposite direction. I gotta get a new oven thermometer, or have the damn thing calibrated.

But the whole point of this particular dessert is for the exterior to cook faster than the interior, no? That's not a sign of trouble here, right?

Edit: and thank you for the compliment, Wendy!

Edited by SethG, 23 February 2005 - 07:03 AM.

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but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"

#153 Wolfert

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 07:25 AM

When you hold a perfect cannele in your hand it should be similar to holding an egg-shaped creme brulee---all crunchy caramelized and almost burnt on the outside and custardy within.

Seth:The interior of your cannele looked ok to me. The custard doesn't overcook at 1 or 1 1/2 or 2 hours, so you can pull them out earlier if you want. With copper and with silicone (see Kit Williams ) the timing I give works perfectly in a calibrated oven. It might be shorter with aluminum...not sure you should reduce the temperature too much unless your calibration is off. You want to sear in the custard.
.
I did notice that Elie's aka foodman's canneles were a tad blacker than mine. I assumed it was due to aluminum versus copper and just let it pass.

In Bordeaux they sell canneles in three shades of darkness. So feel free to experiment to the degree that you like.

Artisanal products like canneles cause problems. That hole in the custard ( even the picture in my book has one) doesn't always happen. More often than not I don't get them. I can't explain why it happens. When I asked I was told that it often happens. SHRUG.

The yellow topping on some of the photos upthread is due to too much fat in the bottom of the mold and the oven not being hot enough to sear the outside right away. Those yellow tops are called 'yelllow rear-ends' in Bordeaux.

Last year, I was told Payards canneles were cake like---more like Nancy Silverton's which are baked for 2 hours at 400 degrees and look beautiful. Nothing wrong with a cakey cannele, but if you prefer the Bordeaux style with the custard interior nothing else will do.

Edited by Wolfert, 23 February 2005 - 08:31 AM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#154 FoodMan

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Posted 23 February 2005 - 12:39 PM

I made some cannelle's this past weekend. I baked one batch on Saturday and another on Sunday. The one from sunday rested longer and had a better texture. here is a pic of the canneles...I know I posted a picture of some other ones before but darn it I love those little things and how they look. BTW, the canelles look much darker in the picture than they actually are, I think it is the lighting.

Posted Image

The best thing about these 2 batches is that they did not stick at all! One or two taps and they were pretty much out of the mold.

Also I followed Paula's advice -Thanks again Paula!- and left them alone when they started rising out of the molds. Sure enough they sat back down and kept on cooking till done, no white butts here. Come to think of it I think sticking in previous times might have been caused by fiddling with them too much in an attempt to sit them down.
I do not have beeswax (relax! it is on my to buy list..at some point). I use instead equal amounts of butter, shortning and vegetable oil. I melt all three together and brush the interior of the molds with the mixture.

Seth- I also think your oven must be too hot. I use the same molds and coom the cannele's for exactly two hours like the recipe specifies. Actually I took one out 10 minutes earlier and had to put it back in since it had a "white butt".


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#155 Wolfert

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 07:36 AM

Elie:


Your canneles do look beautiful. And, I agree you can't help but love them.

I'm pleased you showed the custardy interiors. They are perfect.

What the bee's wax will bring to the cannele is added crunch and an unusual shine. In fact, in Bordeaux there is one company that makes and delivers the white oil in 5 gallon vats to all of the 87 bakeries. It is very liquidy so you don't need to use very much..
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#156 francois

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 05:04 PM

In the meantime, I would like to share a story, recipe and notes for  canele de bordeaux which will appear in my new book coming out this fall. (My recipe originally appeared in Food Arts about two years ago.)
http://www.paula-wol...pes/canele.html

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Unfortunatly, this link no longer works.

Paula, would you be willing to share the recipe?

#157 Wolfert

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Posted 24 February 2005 - 05:51 PM

To keep my publishers from raising their eyebrows, please pm me with your home address and I'll xerox and mail you a copy.
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#158 M. Lucia

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 01:49 PM

Thought you guys might want to know this thread was referenced on101 Cookbooks.

#159 Wolfert

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 06:09 PM

Posted Image



I started to clean my files today, came up with a letter from Patissier Antoine written in 1985. It should be of interest to those who follow the history of the recipe for caneles or canneles
The most important line is the first in the 'process'
the sugar, flour and butter are mixed together before the addition of the eggs and the milk .

This is what makes the custardy interior

Edited by Wolfert, 08 March 2005 - 06:34 PM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#160 Patrick S

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 07:56 AM

Thanks to everyone who's posted pics and advice to this thread. These are definitely some of the most unique and attractive pastries I've ever seen. I can't wait to try them!
"If you are irritated by every rub, how will you be polished?" - Rumi

#161 Patrick S

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 10:30 AM

Does anyone know of an online supplier for the tin or aluminum molds? I've seen some suppliers for silicone molds, but they've gotten mixed reviews on this thread, and the copper molds seem a little too pricey for someone like me.
"If you are irritated by every rub, how will you be polished?" - Rumi

#162 FoodMan

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 02:12 PM

Patrick, I am pretty sure upthread you can find suppliers for both the copper and tin. I bought mine (tin ones) on sale at Williams Sonoma.

edit: JB Prince has both of them, click here.

Elie

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#163 Patrick S

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 02:43 PM

Thanks a million, Elie!

EDIT: I had tried the three links to suppliers posted earlier in the thread. Two of them were inactive links, and one give a price in euros so I assumed it was a european supplier. My local WS store doesnt carry them, and I couldnt find any on their site, though I might have misspelled it.

Edited by Patrick S, 09 March 2005 - 02:48 PM.

"If you are irritated by every rub, how will you be polished?" - Rumi

#164 Richard Kilgore

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 04:04 PM

Patrick, those tin ones from W-S were discontinued. That's why they were selling them for practically nothing. My best guess is that they are gone, gone, gone. It's a slight chance, but you might try calling or emailing W-S to se if they have any laying around in a warehouse, even though they don't list them anymore. Slight chance, but might be worth an email. Or a call to the store asking them to check upstream for you.

Sur La Table may have the silicone ones.

Good luck.

#165 Wolfert

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 04:06 PM

Kit Williams told me that the silicone molds from Bridge's in NY are better than others on the market. She uses them with bee's wax. There is a posting on how she does it somewhere up thread.
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#166 Richard Kilgore

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 04:52 PM

Bridge's shows two lines of silicone molds on its site, but nothing for a cannele. It's probably in their paper catalogue. My guess is it's the red ones.

#167 kitwilliams

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 07:47 PM

Bridge's shows two lines of silicone molds on its site,  but nothing for a cannele. It's probably in their paper catalogue. My guess is it's the red ones.

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They are called "silicone flex" and are a rusty-orange color. They have served me well, but I'm still saving up for copper!
kit

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#168 kuri

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 07:50 AM

Hello everyone,
I am new to the forum, but I am also another who has been obsessed with this little devil cannele!

I am using a copper mold and bees wax-butter mix and have a silly question.

What is the best way to apply the mixture to the mold? I used double-boiler to melt the bees wax and add the butter. Using the brush, I was applying this mixture to the mold, but as you can imagine, it hardens very quickly as it touches the mold. I ended up having rather uneven application of the mixture on the mold. Although this did not cause much problem, some cannle ended up with sticking to the mold. If anyone has any suggestions or tip, I would greately appreciate it! :smile:

Many thanks,
kuri

#169 Wolfert

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:03 AM

Try putting the waxed molds,upside down, on a foil-lined rimmed baking sheet and setting it a medium hot oven for a minute or two. Remove the molds to drain on paper toweling.Pour the still warm bee's wax butter into a bowl and save it to use later on.


Only the thinnest veil of bee's wax-butter is needed.

Edited by Wolfert, 06 June 2005 - 08:08 AM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#170 Wendy DeBord

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:10 AM

Welcome to The eGullet Society For Arts & Letters Kuri. Paula Wolferts advice seems to be the perfect answer for you question. Let us know how that method works for you.

#171 kuri

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 01:56 PM

Try putting the waxed molds,upside down, on a foil-lined rimmed baking sheet and setting it a medium hot oven for a minute or two. Remove the molds to drain on paper toweling.Pour the still warm  bee's wax butter into a bowl and save it to use later on.


Only the thinnest veil of bee's wax-butter is needed.

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Hi Paula,
Thank you very much for your insight.

I just wanted to be clear...Would you initially apply the bee's wax-butter to the mold using whatever the methods, i.e. brush or finger, and putting those waxed molds in the oven as you described? I am assuming putting them in the oven would even out the wax layer and drain any excess... Am I on the right track?

Thanks again for such a quick (and clever) response! :laugh:
kuri

#172 Wolfert

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 02:14 PM

Would you initially apply the bee's wax-butter to the mold using whatever the methods, i.e. brush or finger, and putting those waxed molds in the oven as you described? I am assuming putting them in the oven would even out the wax layer and drain any excess... Am I on the right track?


Yes, you are on the right track.
I use a dedicated pyrex measuring cup with a spout to pour about 1 tablespoon of hot bee's wax into the first mold and swirl the mold in order to coat the bottom and lower insides. I quickly invert the first onto the foil lined pan allowing any excess to slide down the inside. I repeat with the rest of the molds

Here is a good tip: use your microwave to warm up the bee'swax butter whenever necessary.

Edited by Wolfert, 06 June 2005 - 02:28 PM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#173 kuri

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 02:27 PM

Would you initially apply the bee's wax-butter to the mold using whatever the methods, i.e. brush or finger, and putting those waxed molds in the oven as you described? I am assuming putting them in the oven would even out the wax layer and drain any excess... Am I on the right track?


Yes, you are on the right track.
I use a dedicated pyrex measuring cup with a spout to pour about 1 tablespoon of hot bee's wax into the first mold and swirl the mold in order to coat the bottom and lower insides. I quickly invert the first onto the foil lined pan allowing any excess to slide down the inside. I repeat with the rest of the molds

Good hint; use your microwave to warm up the bee'swax butter whenever necessary.

tws

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Thanks Paula! This gives me another excuse to make another batch of canele! I will report back with my progress.

kuri

#174 mjc

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 02:35 PM

I just wanted to let everyone know that there's a new canele in NYC at the new bouley bakery, and I think its the best one i've had.
Mike
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#175 jgarner53

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 05:38 PM

Here's how we do it at work, where we make a boatload (a batch that starts with 12L of milk) of cannelé every single day. The molds (copper), never cleaned, are coated with the beeswax/butter with a dedicated brush that's just barely narrow enough to swipe all the way to the bottom of the mold, then they're set on a sheetpan open side down so that any excess drains out. Seems to work fine for us.

OK. Just read through (skimmed) the thread. Here's how we do it at work. Molds are not refrigerated or frozen, and the batter is usually at least 30-48 hours old. As for making the batter, milk and vanilla beans are brought to a simmer (no temp check, though), then butter is added and allowed to sit until it's cool enough to handle (exact temp isn't critical, but it should still be warm). Flour & sugar are whisked together (yes, we make these by hand, and since I started, I'm usually the one making the batter), then egg yolks, whole eggs, and rum are whisked in gradually. Lastly, the milk/butter mixture is whisked together and gradually whisked in, and the whole mess is poured through a strainer into containers and refrigerated.

As for the baking, it's done usually by the exec PC or assistant PC who come in at 3:30 to start the bake-off, but I think they only pour to about 3/4 full and baked (not sure of the temp) in our convection ovens for at least an hour.

Edited by jgarner53, 06 June 2005 - 06:00 PM.

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#176 kuri

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 10:44 AM

Thank you for all the great tips!
Another question I have on canneles:

When I had them in Paris and Bordeaux, I found that good canneles (or at least those I liked) had very light almost airly interior - just like in the photo of Paula's canneles - rather than dense cake-like texture. My last attempt yielded in between result. Are there any steps that I shoud be aware of?

many many thanks,
kuri

#177 Wolfert

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:03 AM

THe only way I know to obtain the custard-like interior is to mix the butter with the flour before adding the sugar, the yolks, and the hot milk----and always in that order.
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#178 kuri

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:21 PM

THe only way I know to obtain the custard-like interior is to mix the butter with the flour before adding the sugar, the yolks, and the hot milk----and always in that order.

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Thanks Paula!
I remember the interior of cannele has more air and not so dense. I think you meant by "custard-like" refers the same thing, am I right?

I will be sure to report back after my next batch. :biggrin:

kuri

#179 Wolfert

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:27 PM

The filling of a traditional cannele has the texture of a dense creme brulee ---sometimes with a small pocket of air.

Edited by Wolfert, 08 June 2005 - 01:36 PM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#180 jgarner53

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:54 PM

The center of our cannelés is more like a moist, airy cake than a crème brulée. It's custardy, but with more structure.
"I just hate health food"--Julia Child

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