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Please help with cannele recipe


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#121 LT Wong

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 09:12 PM

I finally got round to making canneles this week, and am happy to report that with all the tips in this thread, I've been able to produce the crisp crust and custardy centre.

I followed Pascal Rigo's recipe this time again, with the exception that I froze the copper moulds and chilled the batter for 36 hours. I didn't use beeswax (it is rather difficult to get food grade beeswax in Singapore), but I took a tip from a French lady who sells french pastries in a pastry shop here that she uses caramel to create the crispy exterior. I brushed melted butter-vegetable oil and sprinkle fine sugar into the moulds and left them in the freezer.

I filled them almost to the rim, and baked them at 180C/400F in a convection oven for 1 hour 15 minutes.

My only issue with this batch was that they rose beautifully above the rim in the first 45 minutes only to sink about 1/2 inch below the rim for the remainder of the baking period and they're remained at that height ever since. I wish they could remain slightly taller.

I took Paula's advice that they're best up to 5 hours after they're baked, and have been eating one per hour to check out the texture. After four canneles and four hours, they're still crisp outside and custardy inside, but they're beginning to soften outside.

I'm trying Paula's recipe next. Thanks everyone for sharing their tips and experiences.

#122 Wolfert

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 10:15 PM

canneles are an artisinal product and often do sink in the baking. When I was in Bordeaux learning to make canneles most of the time they ended up smaller than the mold. This is another reason to get the 55 mold which is the largest.


I can't wait to try your tip of butter-oil and sugar. Thanks so much, Paula
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#123 FoodMan

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 10:16 PM

SO I decided to give those tin canelle molds and canelles a try based on this thread (I have never had them before) and bought a set of four tin molds from WS. I used Paula Wolfert's recipe and baked four canelles a few hours ago. To lube the molds I used a butter-oil combination and followed the recipe exactly. During baking the canelles came out of the molds like nightscotsman's did, but following Paula's advice I left them alone and sure enough they slid back in. After two hours of baking the little cakes were vaery dark. I took them out and immediatly banged on the counter and turned them on the cooling rack with no sticking at all.
I could not wait more than one hour to taste those things and once I did I ate three of them and my wife had one. They were amazing, crunchy, chewy, bitter-sweet on the outside and soft custardy on the inside. I will head over to WS and buy another set of those molds before they run out. I still have about half the batter in the fridge and I am planning on baking another four tomorrow to see how it compares to the ones from today.
Here are a couple of pics I took (they look a little darker in the picture than they really are), you can see the canelle and the tin molds. The molds are light but very sturdy and hard.
Thanks for everyone's advice and experimentation, I am hooked on those things.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Elie

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#124 Wolfert

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 11:33 PM

They look beautiful with very lean skins.



edited to remove text I did not write. Very strange.
]

Edited by Wolfert, 27 June 2004 - 08:49 AM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#125 nightscotsman

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 01:18 AM

I am really happy to hear that the aluminum molds do work. I was told that the crunchy exterior just never happened.

Or are you referring to those beautiful chocolate canneles you posted awhile?

No, just the traditional flavor. They are mini molds, so I do prefer my standard size copper ones. They are very thick aluminum, possibly thicker than the ones they sell at William Sonoma, but I don't know it that would make a difference.

#126 SethG

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 02:43 PM

I'm planning to hit Williams Sonoma tomorrow for molds.

I thought New Yorkers here might like to know that you can get beeswax from Nature's Way-- they come to the Brooklyn Grand Army Plaza greenmarket on Saturdays. They don't bring beeswax with them, but it can be special-ordered. They're bringing me some in two weeks, 4 oz. for 75 cents.
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#127 Richard Kilgore

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 04:48 PM

Thanks for the report, Elie. I had been passing those molds by at W-S, so I went by and picked up eight (55mm) today. (They also had a number of other pieces of pastry equipment on sale, and sometimes it was marked only on the invidual products rather than on the shelves, so it's worth picking things up to check. For example, I noticed a set of 6 non-stick barquetes for$7.99. and a large rectangular Kaiser Spring Pan for $25.)

#128 Wolfert

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 07:24 AM

Please keep in mind that bee's wax is highly flammable. There are two safe ways to melt it:put a few chunks of bee's wax along with a little tasteless in a pyrex type cup and heat in a microwave or in a double boiler.

To keep, cover and store the mixture remaining in the cup in a drawer or cupboard.
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#129 jaynesb

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 06:37 PM

I was in our local Williams Sonoma and saw the tin set [of 4 molds]. They were originally $22.50 and were marked down to $10.99 but the cashier said that they were now $4.99 (so of course I bought 2 sets....)

I'm looking forward to trying to bake canneles sometime soon.

jayne

#130 ellencho

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 07:25 AM

Rather late to the party but thought I'd share my cannele success with you guys. I used Malgieri's recipe which is eerily similar to Roux's recipe and since my brother doesn't care for the taste of rum, I substituted an entire orange's worth of zest and an entire vanilla bean.

I pre-froze the molds in my freezer before I added my cold batter. I baked them for an hour in a silicone cannele pan that I bought from amazon.com and they turned out pretty durn good. I had no problems with sinking and no problems with crust formation. The silicone pans are awesome, you don't need to grease them, the canneles pop out quite easily and they're a breeze to clean.

I apologize in advance for the bad lighting, but I used a camera-phone. And also for not showing a pic of a cut cannele. Bad ellen bad!
Posted Image
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#131 boulak

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Posted 14 October 2004 - 06:01 PM

Rather late to the party but thought I'd share my cannele success with you guys.  I used Malgieri's recipe which is eerily similar to Roux's recipe and since my brother doesn't care for the taste of rum, I substituted an entire orange's worth of zest and an entire vanilla bean.

I pre-froze the molds in my freezer before I added my cold batter. I baked them for an hour in a silicone cannele pan that I bought from amazon.com and they turned out pretty durn good.  I had no problems with sinking and no problems with crust formation.  The silicone pans are awesome, you don't need to grease them, the canneles pop out quite easily and they're a breeze to clean.

I apologize in advance for the bad lighting, but I used a camera-phone. And also for not showing a pic of a cut cannele.  Bad ellen bad!
Posted Image

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I purchased silicone pans in Austria, but have pretty much written them off. I was quite disappointed in the color and the texture of the crust. Mine, like yours, looked quite nice otherwise, but lacked the defining characteristics of traditional canneles. At least the molds were not expensive.

#132 francois

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 11:07 AM

Thanks Charlotte, I'll add that one to my wish list. And I'll let you know what happens when I try the recipe.

Sadly, the Nancy Silverton recipe caused the same problem as all the others I've tried. Here's what is happening - as the cannele starts to bake it expands and pushes itself up and out of the mold, leaving a big airspace between the batter and the bottom of the mold. This means that the top tends to burn and the bottom never browns. I've tried slipping a knife down the side of the mold to release the pressure when it starts to rise, but within minutes of putting them back in the oven they spring out of the pan again. I actually "re-seated" them about five times before giving up and letting them bake. I'm getting really frustrated! :wacko:

Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you handle it? I'm using copper molds (both chilled and room temperature) and I've tried various coatings including butter, non-stick spray and lecithin. I've also tried oven temperatures from 350 to 410

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I have the same problem. No matter how often I read and reread this thread, I just don't get the solution. Is it my recipe? (I use Hermé's). Is it something that I do wrong?

#133 chefcyn

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 02:18 PM

Beeswax.  Interesting topic and perhaps should be a new thread but, as I will use it only in conjunction with canneles, I'll leave it here...

I have a swarm of bees living on the side of my house.  They have built the most amazing honeycomb -- five feet in length and about 15" at the widest spot.  Is there any way I could put some of their wax (the honey is delicious) to use?  Anyone here know how beeswax gets to the state where it can be used to coat canneles molds?

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If you can get the combs away from the hive without being stung to death ;) it's relatively easy to process the wax to use--but you'll want the honey, too. That's a little more difficult. We used to borrow a centrifugal extractor from an apiarist (bee guy) to do our small hive. Our combs were on frames and very regular. You use a "hotknife" to skim the wax off the top of the cells, then the frames are placed in the extractor and spun around at high speed. All the honey flies out and drips down the sides of the barrel into a funnel into a bucket. You heat it and strain out the bee parts and bottle it. Then the wax is all empty of hiney and you just heat them to melt it, strain the liquid wax through a seive and let it harden in aluminum cake pans. Then it can be cut into blocks and wrapped to store.
With your big comb, you could heat the whole thing and the wax might separate from the honey, then cool it all and lift off the wax layer, melt and strain both parts and go from there.

OR, you could look in the yellow pages for an apiary in your area and ask them what to do with it. They may come out and remove your bees for you for a fee and thus save the walls of your house form damage. Where there are honey bees, there are often carpenter bees who drill holes in your house letting in all manner of bad things.
It's not the destination, but the journey!

#134 chefcyn

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 02:20 PM

Please keep in mind that bee's wax is highly flammable. There are two safe ways to melt it:put  a few chunks of bee's wax along with a little tasteless in a pyrex type cup and heat in a microwave or in a double boiler. 

To keep, cover and store the mixture remaining in the cup in a drawer or cupboard.

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A little tasteless what? :blink:
It's not the destination, but the journey!

#135 SethG

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 02:35 PM

Please keep in mind that bee's wax is highly flammable. There are two safe ways to melt it:put  a few chunks of bee's wax along with a little tasteless in a pyrex type cup and heat in a microwave or in a double boiler. 

To keep, cover and store the mixture remaining in the cup in a drawer or cupboard.

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A little tasteless what? :blink:

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Judging by Paula's book, she meant to say "a little tasteless [oil, such as safflower]."

Despite my purchase of canele molds many months ago, I still haven't given them a try.
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but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"

#136 kitwilliams

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Posted 06 February 2005 - 05:42 PM

Thanks for your answer to my questions, chefcyn, however I am very sad to say that the bees and their hive are no more. :sad: They suddenly swarmed, one morning, and went directly next door and settled on our neighbor's tree. Since they have a small child and dogs, they IMMEDIATELY called a bee man (after first calling my father to ask if he would pay for the removal of the bees since they were HIS bees!!!!!!! -- unbelievable!) who didn't come and simply take them away, but sprayed murderous pesticides which, I'm sure, were more harmful to child and canine than our gentle bees who never hurt anyone in the two years they resided here.

When we took down all the comb, we found more embryonic bees than honey! But what little honey there was was unbelievably tasty.

Those same neighbors' wisteria was more beautiful than ever while the bees were here. I knew the wisteria would suffer with the loss of the bees. But I was mistaken as to the source of their suffering. It suffered from the neighbors, as they chopped it down, along with their coral tree.

Back on topic -- I'll never make any canneles for them!!
kit

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#137 Jay Francis

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 02:08 PM

I had created a cannele discussion here sometime back when I was getting really frustrated working with the recipe in Paula Wolfert's book. Following her procedure to the letter resulted in a burned cannele. I now use a much simpler recipe that I got doing a recipe search at the Food Network site. Is it authentic? I don't know. But it produces a flavorful dessert.

And, I found on close-out at Sur La Table, a silicone cannele mold. Which is how I got into trying to make cannele after reading about them at the www.chocolateandzucchini.com weblog.

Having that makes a big difference I think. My cannele always come out mis-shapen. They are very sweet, though, and have a chewy crunch and a custardy inside so I am pleased.

And an additional note. Although I did not have success with Paula's cannele recipe, I need to qualify that I am a big fan of hers. When I returned to the states in 1983, the hardback copy of her Morroccan book was one of my first purchases. I have, over the years, made pretty much every dish in this cookbook, with great success.

Edited by Jay Francis, 07 February 2005 - 02:28 PM.


#138 kitwilliams

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 02:31 PM

I had created a cannele discussion here sometime back when I was getting really frustrated working with the recipe in Paula Wolfert's book. Following her procedure to the letter resulted in nasty burned cannele. I now use a much simpler recipe that I got doing a recipe search at the Food Network site.  Is it authentic?  I don't know.  But it produces a flavorful dessert. 

And, I found on close-out at Sur La Table, a silicone cannele mold.  Which is how I got into trying to make cannele after reading about them at the www.chocolateandzucchini.com weblog. 

Having that makes a big difference I think.  My cannele always come out mis-shapen.  They are very sweet, though, and have a chewy crunch and a custardy inside so I am pleased.

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Glad you've found a recipe that works (albeit misshapen) for you, Jay. But I just have to put in a plug that Paula Wolfert's recipe is still the one that works best for me. I use the Silicone Flex molds, purchased at Bridge Kitchenware. They seem to be one of the more substantial of the silicone molds and the results from them are very good.
kit

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Weebl

#139 FoodMan

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 03:11 PM

This might seem like a dumb suggestion, but has anyone tried putting a top on the molds? Maybe like a baking sheet so that the canneles will stay put and not rise out of the molds. Should I even try this?
I use Wolfert's recipe as well with very good results and I have to "sit" them back down one or two times while baking. It would be nice not to have to do that.

Elie

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#140 Wolfert

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Posted 07 February 2005 - 05:50 PM

Foodman:you don't have to worry about canneles rising in their molds . The canneles will settle down before they are fully baked and before you turn them out.

As for the writer who hasn't had luck with the recipe. I am truly sorry. I had an incredible chance to get the "real" Bordeaux version and had worked with a number of bakers in France and here in the States to perfect this recipe using our flour and copper molds. (I don't approve of the tin ones.) A number of chefs from the French SW working here in the States use this recipe because they claim it is closest to the "real thing."

BTW the cannele is supposed to be brown to black on the outside. Just as described in my book.

Can't find bee's wax? anyone who goes to a farmer's market and see's honey for sale can find a local supplier for bee's wax. Otherwise, check on the web. There are plenty of folks out there willing to sell clean bee's wax.

Edited by Wolfert, 07 February 2005 - 07:37 PM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#141 SethG

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 09:57 AM

I finally got around to making some canele batter this morning, using Paula's recipe. But I just noticed that she calls for yolks from extra large eggs. I reflexively (and mistakenly) used large eggs (almost universally called for in baking) without checking.

I imagine there's nothing I can do to fix the error now. Will my caneles be okay? There's a lot of variation in egg sizes, even within each classification, right? We're not talking about a big difference in weight, when it's just four yolks, right?

Or should I chuck it all and start over, throwing in another yolk?


Edit: And wait, Paula, what's wrong with the tin molds? Too thin? Elie's caneles, above, look pretty good, no?

Edited by SethG, 20 February 2005 - 10:06 AM.

"I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast;
but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"

#142 Richard Kilgore

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 10:21 AM

I can't answer the most important of your questions, but...

I have noticed that over the years baking books have called for just about any size egg. I have a copy of Lenotre's Desserts and Pastries from the 1970's that calls for medium eggs. A handy conversion would be helpful if anyone knows the ratios.

#143 Wolfert

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 10:46 AM

Seth: don't worry about it. YOur canneles will be fine.
Tin molds don't produce the kind of blackened crunchy crust that I came to love when learning the fine points of the recipe.
A photo showing the super crunch that I like will be posted here in about ten minutes meanwhile iff tin produced crunchy canneles make you happy and put a smile on your face and satisfy your tummy. Stick with them.


Now about egg sizes: the old French way of setting culinary proportions in baking recipes was in "egg weights". This was determined by weighing an egg in shell, then weighing out the flour, sugar, and butter using the weight of the egg as a constant. If you visualize an old fashioned fulcrum type balance scale, the method makes more sense.

Edited by Wolfert, 20 February 2005 - 10:48 AM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#144 Wolfert

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:00 AM

Posted Image


This is the best I can do to zoom in the crunch that I personally love.
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#145 Richard Kilgore

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:07 AM

....I could not wait more than one hour to taste those things and once I did I ate three of them and my wife had one. They were amazing, crunchy, chewy, bitter-sweet on the outside and soft custardy on the inside.... Here are a couple of pics I took (they look a little darker in the picture than they really are), you can see the canelle and the tin molds. .
Posted Image
Elie

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For comparison, here's a comment and a photo from Elie's post about making them with the tin molds.

#146 Wolfert

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:16 AM

Richard: thank you so much for forwarding that picture. I couldn't find it when I scrolled back earlier this morning.

Elie's canneles look wonderful. I certainly will recommend them from now on.
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#147 SethG

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:19 AM

I know that photo from your book, Paula. And Richard posted the photo of Elie's to which I referred. It looks from the comparison that the tin molds produce a slightly thicker crust, but still nice and black and crunchy. Both look pretty good to me. I bought the tin molds months ago. I have bee's wax with which to coat them, and I'll post my results tomorrow or Tuesday.
"I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast;
but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"

#148 Wolfert

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Posted 20 February 2005 - 11:21 AM

Take pictures so we have more comparisons to study.

With euro climbing versus the dollar, the tin molds are obviously the way to go.. Also Kim Williams has had wonderful luck with Bridge's silicone molds.

The best time to eat canneles is 2 to 4 hours just out of the oven. Plan ahead.

Edited by Wolfert, 20 February 2005 - 11:22 AM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#149 SethG

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 07:08 PM

Okay, so I used the tin molds, seasoned with the "white oil" (melted beeswax mixed with safflower oil).

I couldn't believe that these things, each the size of a large shot glass, could be cooked for two hours at 400 degrees. It seemed to me that this would likely produce nothing but smoking, irradiating ruins. But I have nothing but faith in you, Paula, so I let them go almost the full two hours, even though the tops were a very dark brown already after about an hour and ten. I kept looking to make sure they weren't turning completely black, and they never did get darker than a very dark brown.

I needed a little help to unmold them. I used a fish fork, pictured below:

Posted Image

They looked a little raggedy, but basically correct. Then I forced myself to wait about 45 minutes before biting into one. To me it didn't taste crispy enough. My wife thought the dark outside tasted burnt, and that it overwhelmed the taste of the custard inside.

Here's a view of one cut open:

Posted Image

It looks a lot like yours, Paula, but I think the walls are too thick, causing the imbalance my wife described. (I also think the deep deep caramelization might be a bit much for both my wife and I.) I only made four last night, and I'm baking off another four as I write this. I'm going to try removing the molds one at a time, at fifteen minute intervals, and see what I think of each specimen. It seems to me like the tin molds ought to work, so long as the baking is done at the right temperature for the right length of time.

Now I'm really curious to try one at Payard, just to know what a proper cannele tastes like. I'll let you know how tonight's experiment goes.
"I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast;
but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"

#150 SethG

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Posted 22 February 2005 - 09:57 PM

Okay, so now I know: my canneles last night were overcooked. Tonight I made four of them, and I removed one from the oven after one hour and twenty minutes, one at 1:35, one at 1:40, and one at 1:47. The one from 1:20 was definitely undercooked, and the one at 1:47 verged on overcooked. The one from 1:35 was just about perfect. Almost as brown as the ones from last night, but with a thinner, crispier exterior. Nice and moist inside. I wanted to post a picture, but it came out blurry, and the cannele is long gone!

So maybe the tin molds require less cooking time than the tin-lined copper? Or maybe just in my oven.
"I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast;
but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"