Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the society.

Photo

Please help with cannele recipe


  • Please log in to reply
275 replies to this topic

#31 kitwilliams

kitwilliams
  • participating member
  • 981 posts
  • Location:southern california

Posted 23 February 2003 - 12:33 PM

Beeswax. Interesting topic and perhaps should be a new thread but, as I will use it only in conjunction with canneles, I'll leave it here...

I have a swarm of bees living on the side of my house. They have built the most amazing honeycomb -- five feet in length and about 15" at the widest spot. Is there any way I could put some of their wax (the honey is delicious) to use? Anyone here know how beeswax gets to the state where it can be used to coat canneles molds?
kit

"I'm bringing pastry back"
Weebl

#32 Louisa Chu

Louisa Chu
  • participating member
  • 1,178 posts
  • Location:Paris/Chicago

Posted 25 February 2003 - 08:25 AM

Asked one of the pastry chefs - Chef Pascal. He's only made them once so he warns that he's not an expert with this one - though I assure you he is with just about everything else. Described your problem - "C'est bizarre, non?!" - and thinks that you may want to cook your batter first a bit like a pate a choux. When he's seen them made the batter's been quite thick.

I will ask some of the other chefs too. Pastry again tomorrow.

Also, can you check out Dorie Greenspan's Paris Sweets? I think she has the Poujauran recipe in there. I'll be seeing her next week - gallery talk and book signing at La Hune - and will try to ask her then.

More later this week.

And kit your bees sound so cool!

#33 kitwilliams

kitwilliams
  • participating member
  • 981 posts
  • Location:southern california

Posted 25 February 2003 - 09:37 AM

And kit your bees sound so cool!

They are, lou...we love them! But our neighbors are scared to death (ooh -- they are probably killer bees!!!) and keep threatening to call local authorities.

Just let them try :angry:

I'm going to move my question to a new thread so that it might get the attention it undoubtedly deserves. Ha! :biggrin:
kit

"I'm bringing pastry back"
Weebl

#34 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 25 February 2003 - 11:40 AM

Asked one of the pastry chefs - Chef Pascal. He's only made them once so he warns that he's not an expert with this one - though I assure you he is with just about everything else. Described your problem - "C'est bizarre, non?!" - and thinks that you may want to cook your batter first a bit like a pate a choux. When he's seen them made the batter's been quite thick.

I will ask some of the other chefs too. Pastry again tomorrow.

Also, can you check out Dorie Greenspan's Paris Sweets? I think she has the Poujauran recipe in there. I'll be seeing her next week - gallery talk and book signing at La Hune - and will try to ask her then.

More later this week.

And kit your bees sound so cool!

Thanks for asking, lou. The pre-cooking sounds interesting. All of the recipes I've tried so far produce a very thin batter and require chilling for at least 24 hours. I baked the Herme recipe again last night, including chilling the molds, though I used a combo of butter and lecithin to coat them. Same problem, but still tasty (they are addictive). I will try to get some beeswax, though I doubt if that would make a difference since I'm not having any sticking problems. I wish I could actually watch somebody make these things.

Oh, and I just checked Dorie's book and didn't see a cannele recipe. It would be great if you could ask her if she's made them and might have some tips. Thanks!

Edited by nightscotsman, 25 February 2003 - 11:43 AM.


#35 thelastsupper

thelastsupper
  • participating member
  • 243 posts

Posted 01 March 2003 - 12:39 AM

I don't think that the beeswax is used to prevent sticking necessarily-- rather to help it get the proper color before the inside overcooks. It also imparts flavor and helps give the cannele a little crunch.

#36 hedgehog

hedgehog
  • legacy participant
  • 49 posts

Posted 01 March 2003 - 07:35 AM

A version of the official recipe for canele de Bordeaux was published in Food Arts about 2 years ago

The canelé de Bordeaux is the official cake of the city, while cannelé Bordelais is the name used in Paris, New York City, Osaka, Los Angeles, or wherever.

In the article, it describes lining the copper molds with a film of "white oil" a blend of melted beeswax, melted butter and a tasteless oil. Then the molds are stored in the freezer until ready to fill and set in the oven to bake.

Edited by hedgehog, 01 March 2003 - 12:15 PM.


#37 Louisa Chu

Louisa Chu
  • participating member
  • 1,178 posts
  • Location:Paris/Chicago

Posted 01 March 2003 - 06:01 PM

nightscotsman I haven't forgotten about your question. In fact it's haunting me! I have not had a chance to ask the other pastry chefs at school yet but will try again next week. The one whom I think would know is prepping for the MOF competition in 2 weeks and I have not been able to catch a free minute with him yet. I'm going to try to go over to Poujauran next week and ask. They don't make them in my local patisserie. And then there's Dorie Tuesday. There's got to be an answer!

#38 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 01 March 2003 - 06:54 PM

Thanks, lou - I appreciate it. I made another batch today using Nancy Silverton's recipe, and this time used beeswax mixed with butter and oil to line the molds. These are much closer to what I'm looking for. They didn't rise up out of the molds and the outside is a beautiful deep brown all over as it should be. Nancy's recipe uses mostly egg yolks rather than whole eggs, so I think that may have been the major difference. Also they are baked at a 375 instead of 400. The only think I wasn't quite happy with was the crust, which is quite thick and hard rather than crisp/chewy like the ones I had in France. I wonder if I baked them at the higher temperature for a shorted time I would get a nicer crust?

#39 hedgehog

hedgehog
  • legacy participant
  • 49 posts

Posted 02 March 2003 - 09:12 AM

I wonder if the thickness of your canele de Bordeaux was caused by using too small a mold. The copper, tin-lined molds come in three sizes . I am sure Nancy Silverton's recipe calls for the 3 oz.capacity which is the traditional size. (I think she wrote she learned it from a Paris based Bordeaux baker). Her oven temperatures would correlate with that size mold.
I like them a little crunchy. But in Bordeaux Baillardain sells them "very cooked" which is pure black in color and very crunchy. You can buy them " medium cooked" which is mahogony in color and crisp, and "golden brown" which is as stated in color and chewy.

I love caneles one hour out of the oven. Unfortunately, within five or six hours they begin to turn spongy. I know that bakers have tricks to revive them.

Edited by hedgehog, 02 March 2003 - 09:14 AM.


#40 mamster

mamster
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 2,918 posts

Posted 02 March 2003 - 10:17 AM

I ate some of nightscotsman's canneles--in fact, I just had one for breakfast--and they're amazing. I've never had one before, and they're unlike any other food. Thanks everyone for teaching him how to make them.

Chocolate and rum next?
Matthew Amster-Burton, aka "mamster"
Author, Hungry Monkey, coming in May

#41 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 02 March 2003 - 10:35 AM

I wonder if the thickness of your canele de Bordeaux was  caused by using too small a mold. The copper, tin-lined molds come in three sizes . I am sure Nancy Silverton's  recipe calls for the  3 oz.capacity which is the traditional size. (I think she wrote she learned it from a Paris based Bordeaux baker). Her oven temperatures would correlate with that size mold.
I like them a little crunchy.  But  in Bordeaux  Baillardain sells them "very cooked" which is pure black in color and very crunchy. You can buy them " medium cooked" which is mahogony in color and crisp, and "golden brown" which is as stated in color and chewy.

I love caneles  one hour out of the oven. Unfortunately, within five or six hours they begin to turn spongy. I know that bakers have tricks to revive them.

I just checked my molds and they appear to be 3 oz (2 x 2 inches, right?). I would call the last batch of canele "mahogany" with a very crunchy crust. Even the next day, stored in a covered container they are still fairly crisp. If I wanted a little less crunch in the crust, but still cooked through, would I bake them at a higher or lower temperature? I'm not completely unhappy with this attempt - just fine tuning. Thanks to everyone for their help and encouragement!

Glad you liked them, mamster. :smile: Now that I think I've solved my major problems, I will have to try Bau's chocolate version - thanks for reminding me.

#42 hedgehog

hedgehog
  • legacy participant
  • 49 posts

Posted 02 March 2003 - 10:52 AM

If you are using a 3 ounce (1/3 cup approx) capacity mold you don't change the temperature you change the baking time.

In other words,remove and rap one out about 10 minutes before total baking time. If its mahogany, let it turned out crisp on a rack until cool.

I think the best caneles are made in a convection oven. If you have one try baking the caneles at 375°F for 1 hour and 15 minutes for a deep, dark brown shade. In a regular 400 degree oven it will take longer.

Another trick I have learned is to place the chilled filled molds 1 1/2" apart on the baking sheet so they bake evenly.

By the way, I've noticed that caneles that rise out of their molds do drop back down if left to bake long enough. The recipe I use take about 1 3/4 hours to bake properly.. The insides are completely custardy while the exteriors are crackling black.

re: your rum and chocolate which sounds fantastic: Canelés de Bordeaux is the "politically correct" name for the bordeaux recipe. Additions or alterations to the recipe will run afoul of the "canelés gendarmes," transforming the baked product into cannelés Bordelais.

Edited by hedgehog, 02 March 2003 - 06:55 PM.


#43 kitwilliams

kitwilliams
  • participating member
  • 981 posts
  • Location:southern california

Posted 03 March 2003 - 04:22 PM

I spoke to the Honey Man at the Berkeley Farmer's Market last Saturday so now know how to process the beeswax hanging on the side of my house. Question is, what are the proportions of beeswax to butter to oil needed to produce the perfect coating for the canneles molds?

Also...have any of you canneles experts baked them in both copper and silicon molds and, if so, is it possible for the silicon molds to produce the same crust as the copper?

Thanks.
kit

"I'm bringing pastry back"
Weebl

#44 hedgehog

hedgehog
  • legacy participant
  • 49 posts

Posted 03 March 2003 - 04:51 PM

I melt 1 ounce of bee's wax in an old glass or porcelain cup in the microwave (but you can do it over simmering water); add 2 tablespoons warm melted butter and stir in enough safflower oil to make it thick enough to coat the back of a spoon...about 1 1/3 cups. You might need more.
Beware: bee's wax is highly flammable.

When you're ready to use the white oil, simply reheat it in the cup and brush or pour a little into each mold; swirl the mold and turn upside down on a rack set over a pan with sides to remove excess. You don't want too much oil in the mold. THINK SHEER. In fact, you could put the molds still on the rack set over the pan into a warm oven in order to remove excess oil. (This is important because you don't want to much oil puddling in the curves which create what is known in Bordeaux as "white asses" in other words, puddling deters the tops from browning properly.)
I always pour any excess oil back into the cup to use at another time.

For those who don't have access to beeswax, you can try jerry price at J&N Sales
(765/459-4589;www.jerryprice@myself.com.)


You ask about the rubberized molds. Personally, I didn't like the glassine exterior.

You could make a make belief squat canele using nordic ware's mini bundt molds ...you don't need the bee's wax and you can bake them in half the time. They don't look like caneles but they sure taste similar.

One more thing, you didn't ask but I thought you might want to know that you should heat the milk to 183 F before adding it to the flour, butter and sugar mixture. Strain, chill and go for it.

#45 Louisa Chu

Louisa Chu
  • participating member
  • 1,178 posts
  • Location:Paris/Chicago

Posted 03 March 2003 - 07:04 PM

nightscotsman I'm so relieved that the problem seems to be solved. There's nothing more vexing than this kind of thing. And your cannele travails now have me on that inevitable path back to Poujauran - ooh I just hate them. And hedgehog may I ask about your intensive familiarity with the canneles? They're an old-fashioned little cake not found much even in Paris. Thanks.

#46 kitwilliams

kitwilliams
  • participating member
  • 981 posts
  • Location:southern california

Posted 03 March 2003 - 11:26 PM

(This is important because you don't want to much oil puddling in the curves which create what is known in Bordeaux as "white asses" in other words, puddling deters the tops from browning properly.)

Nightscotsman: it looks as if the French actually have a name for the trouble you've had with your canneles! "White Asses!" But all it takes is a little beeswax and butter to cure it -- perhaps that is the same mixture as in Bain de Soleil!
kit

"I'm bringing pastry back"
Weebl

#47 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 04 March 2003 - 12:14 AM

(This is important because you don't want to much oil puddling in the curves which create what is known in Bordeaux as "white asses" in other words, puddling deters the tops from browning properly.)

Nightscotsman: it looks as if the French actually have a name for the trouble you've had with your canneles! "White Asses!" But all it takes is a little beeswax and butter to cure it -- perhaps that is the same mixture as in Bain de Soleil!

Great, now all I have to do is spread some of that stuff on my ass and lay on the beach at Cannes. Of course, good pastry is worth it. :cool:

And loufood - Gerard Mulot in the 6th has good canneles, if happen to be in that area. :smile:

#48 hedgehog

hedgehog
  • legacy participant
  • 49 posts

Posted 04 March 2003 - 07:54 AM

loufood:


Caneles have recently gained cachet after years of neglect. They are Bordelais in origin. Many recipes don't carry a tale; the canelé carries many. One of the
oldest refers to a convent in Bordeaux, where, before the French Revolution, the nuns prepared cakes called canalize (or something like that...not sure) made with donated egg yolks from local winemakers, who used only the whites to clarify their wines. ( Hence the almost exclusive use of egg yolks !)


The popularity of canelés has risen and fallen numerous time over the years. Twenty five years ago, when I first started spending a lot of time in Bordeaux, I never heard of these little cakes. No local guide or notable cookbook published since the start of the 20th century even mentioned them. Later, I heard that a few Bordeaux bakers were working to revive their local specialty.
It didn't take long for these darling cakes to begin cropping up in all sizes and flavorings throughout France.

Edited by hedgehog, 04 March 2003 - 07:58 AM.


#49 Louisa Chu

Louisa Chu
  • participating member
  • 1,178 posts
  • Location:Paris/Chicago

Posted 04 March 2003 - 08:09 AM

hedgehog, what I meant was what's your obsession with them? :smile: I'm quite fond of them as well. Gerard Mulot! Another place where the service drives me insane - thanks for the tip. :wink:

#50 hedgehog

hedgehog
  • legacy participant
  • 49 posts

Posted 04 March 2003 - 08:22 AM

LOU: "The fox," you see,"knows many things," wrote the ancient Greek writer Archilochus, "but the hedgehog knows one big thing." For all the fox's cunning, he is defeated by the hedgehog's one great defense---rolling himself up in a ball to protect himself on all sides with his coat of prickly quills. " Isaih Berlin

#51 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 04 March 2003 - 02:58 PM

hedgehog, what I meant was what's your obsession with them?  :smile: I'm quite fond of them as well. Gerard Mulot! Another place where the service drives me insane - thanks for the tip.  :wink:

Oh, in that case, there is another patisserie on the other side of the Marche Saint-Germain from Mulot on Rue Mabillon. Sorry I don't remember the name of the place. Smaller selection, but they also make good cannele. :biggrin:

#52 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 05 March 2003 - 02:43 PM

Just this morning I baked up a batch of chocolate canneles from a recipe in "Au Coeur des Saveurs" by Frederic Bau (who attributes the recipe to Vincent Bourdin). The verdict: AWESOME! Crisp/chewy on the outside, like a regular cannele, but the inside is rich, custardy, bittersweet chocolate. Had a little rising problem, but I was able to poke them into submission so they came out OK.

#53 Schielke

Schielke
  • participating member
  • 2,793 posts

Posted 05 March 2003 - 02:55 PM

I humbly request that you save one for me.

:biggrin:

Ben
Gimme what cha got for a pork chop!

-Freakmaster



I have two words for America... Meat Crust.
-Mario

#54 col klink

col klink
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 2,015 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis

Posted 05 March 2003 - 03:18 PM

Me too. :wub:

#55 MsRamsey

MsRamsey
  • participating member
  • 1,287 posts
  • Location:San Francisco

Posted 05 March 2003 - 04:50 PM

I'll be right over!
"Save Donald Duck and Fuck Wolfgang Puck."
-- State Senator John Burton, joking about
how the bill to ban production of foie gras in
California was summarized for signing by
Gov. Schwarzenegger.

#56 hedgehog

hedgehog
  • legacy participant
  • 49 posts

Posted 05 March 2003 - 05:00 PM

where does the line form?

#57 mamster

mamster
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 2,918 posts

Posted 05 March 2003 - 05:45 PM

Me too!
Matthew Amster-Burton, aka "mamster"
Author, Hungry Monkey, coming in May

#58 Louisa Chu

Louisa Chu
  • participating member
  • 1,178 posts
  • Location:Paris/Chicago

Posted 05 March 2003 - 07:55 PM

LOU:    "The fox," you see,"knows many things," wrote the ancient Greek writer Archilochus, "but the hedgehog knows one big thing."  For all the fox's cunning, he is defeated by the hedgehog's one great defense---rolling himself up in a ball to protect himself on all sides with his coat of prickly quills. " Isaih Berlin

:raz: :biggrin:

#59 Joni

Joni
  • participating member
  • 220 posts

Posted 07 March 2003 - 08:39 AM

Nightscotsman...I looked for the book on Amazon -- yikes! Sounds like a wonderful book but $169??? Would you like to share how different the chocolate ones were from Pierre Herme's recipe? Or, the recipe please???!! They sound wonderful.

#60 nightscotsman

nightscotsman
  • participating member
  • 3,068 posts
  • Location:Las Vegas

Posted 07 March 2003 - 12:57 PM

Yeah, it's expensive, but a really gorgeous and amazing book. It's aimed squarely at the professional and covers cakes, plated desserts and chocolates. It also goes into the science behind ingredients like cream, butter, chocolate and sugar. Here is the basic recipe for the chocolate canelles (I made a half recipe):

1,000 g milk
2 vanilla beans
150 g butter
200 g bitter sweet chocolate (he specifies Valrhona Extra Amer 67% - but then he works for Valrhona)
450 g confectioners sugar
170 g flour
15 g cocoa
4 whole eggs
4 egg yolks
40 g dark rum

split the vanilla beans and add them to the milk with the butter. bring to a boil, remove the beans and pour over chocolate. Emulsify with a hand blender. whisk together other ingredients and slowly stir in still warm chololate mixture. Chill 24 hours. Bake at 375 F in prepared canelle molds (he says 35 to 40 minutes, but mine took over an hour to develop a good crust). Makes 24-26 2-inch canelles.