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Please help with cannele recipe


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#1 nightscotsman

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Posted 01 July 2002 - 10:15 PM

I first learned of canneles from a recipe in Gale Gand's book "Just a Bite". I tried baking some in muffin pans and they tasted wonderful, but were not pretty. Later I had the real thing in Paris patiseries and fell in love with them - enough to make the investment in special copper molds to bake them properly. My problem is no matter what I try they still come out ugly and misshapen. If I fill the molds 3/4 full they rise too much and then shrink off the bottom of the mold so they don't brown all over. If I fill them less they don't rise enough and come out short and squat. I've tried several other recipes I've found on the web with slightly different ingredient ratios and baking tempurature, but without success. Has anybody else made these and can help me out with some tips? Here is the basic recipe I'm using:

3-1/4 C milk
4 Tbs butter melted
3 eggs
2 Tbs rum
2 C sugar
1-1/2 C flour
1 tsp vanilla

Mix everything together and refrigerate, covered overnight. Butter molds generously and fill 3/4 full. Bake on cookie sheet at 400 degrees for 1 hour untill dark brown.

I've also tried baking at 350 and 375 as well as starting at 400 for first 20 minutes and then reducing to 350 till done.

I realize this is a very odd looking recipe, but they are really good and quite addictive.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated - thanks! :smile:

#2 Toby

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 08:09 AM

Canelles are amazing. I've always wanted to make them. Where did you get the molds?

Nancy Silverton has a recipe that looks like it will work in her Pastries from La Brea Bakery book. She says that "because of their dark color, it's almost impossible to tell when canelles are cooked all the way through. Until you get your timing down, you may have to sacrifice one to check for doneness." She seasons and coats the molds with vegetable oil; also uses proportionally more eggs than in your recipe. She gives very exact instructions for preparing the batter, including boiling part of the milk and butter together, straining the batter, and then refrigerating it for at least 24 hours. She fills the molds to the top and bakes at 400 degrees for about 2 hours until they are very dark on the outside.

#3 nightscotsman

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 08:32 AM

Ahh, Nancy Silverton. I've been meaning to get that book. Thanks for the tip :smile:

I bought the molds in Paris. They were hard to find even there - most shops carried the silicone elastomolds, but I wanted the old fashioned copper. Here are some on-line sources for the copper molds:

http://www.meilleurd...cuivre1_55.html

http://www.clicshop....p9597015.2.html

#4 Steve Klc

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 08:56 AM

Night--the brass molds aren't hard to find here at all--JB Prince has stocked three charming petite sizes on display in their Manhattan showroom and mailorder for quite a while.

You might also want to check out Pierre Herme's treatment of canneles in his really beautiful pre-Dorie pastry book, called "Secrets Gourmands." It's on p. 126. I'm not familiar with the Silverton recipe but Herme's is by weight, which is always helpful when it comes to pastry and baking.
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#5 helenas

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 09:01 AM

The copper cannele forms are available in US through PastryItems.

#6 nightscotsman

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 02:55 PM

Steve - I wish I could look up the cannele recipe in Pierre Herme's book. I don't own it yet, but I would love to - along with "Patisserie of Perre Herme" and "Au Coeur des Saveurs" by Frederic Bau. All very expensive so I have to save up my shekels.

I completely agree that recipes by weight are far easier to deal with. All of the others I found on the web were in grams and liters, but I still had the same problems. For my next test batch (while I'm waiting to get my hands on Nancy's or Pierre's books) I was going to try baking at 425 for 15 minutes to set the structure and then lower the temperature to cook through and brown.

By the way, is there anyplace you recommend to buy professional pastry books? Amazon lists most of them, but with shipping times of 6-8 weeks, and JB Prince doesn't carry "Secrets Gourmands" (is that the same as "Larousse des Desserts" or is one in French only?).

Why we're (sort of) on the subject, what are your favorite pastry books? Or should we start a new thread for that subject :unsure: ?

Thanks!

#7 wingding

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 03:25 PM

The traditional way of seasoning canelle molds is with melted beeswax-it is part of the flavor,and is available at good arts and craft stores.

#8 Patrice

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 05:41 PM

In Frédéric Bau's Au Coeur Des Saveurs, there's a very good recipe for a Chocolate and rhum cannelé!!!
Nightscotsman- you should really take a look a this book, it's one of the best pastry book ever written.
Patrice Demers

#9 nightscotsman

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Posted 02 July 2002 - 07:42 PM

Chocolate and rhum cannelé!!!

OK, that's it!

::pries open wallet with crowbar::

"Au Coeur Des Saveurs" on order as of now.

::leaning on mailbox, tapping foot::

#10 Steve Klc

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Posted 03 July 2002 - 04:26 AM

Scot--of course we can try to keep this thread neat and tidy wrapped around all things canneles but sometimes groups of interested folk gather in one place and spin off. That's fine with me and that's why we have a killer search engine. Search on the site for pastry book talk, we've covered it previously, but could always get into it again in a new thread. Quick response here: like Patrice, I too much admire the Bau book--it was the hottest pastry book in NYC among pros when it came out and still there are few better. Add to that the Adria, Bras Dessert notebook, the Balaguer and early Herme.

I have not seen the new Ducasse/Frederic Robert dessert book yet but I am hopeful--Steve P. has seen it and was at least visually impressed and with such a high standard of French books already out there, I'd expect it to be substantial.

Your ability to embrace these books, well, depends on your level of ability!

I buy all my books from Prince--but older titles like the Secrets Gourmands, which are in French and more "literary" or coffee table-type books are best purchased from Kitchen Arts & Letters.
Steve Klc

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#11 kitwilliams

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Posted 03 August 2002 - 07:40 PM

It has taken me months and several recipes, each tried several times over, but I have almost hit on the perfect cannelle. I purchased four 8-mould silicone moulds at Bridge Kitchenware. I chill the molds, very lightly brush them with vegetable oil (I have yet to try the beeswax technique but will one day soon) and stick them back in the freezer for a few minutes before filling them with the 24-hour old Cannelle batter from Nancy Silverton. It still amazes me but filling them just a tad below the rim and baking at 400 for 2 hours is nearly perfect. Next time, however, I'm going to try reducing the sugar a bit.

An amazing pastry and I look forward to going to Bordeaux and seeing the pastry shop which a friend visited last year where they bake nothing but cannelle. Must be an awesome sight!
kit

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#12 Bux

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Posted 03 August 2002 - 08:04 PM

Perhaps the classic canneles were at Amat's restaurant in Bouliac across the river from Bordeaux. That he lost and never regained his second star was a mystery to many of us. That he lost his restaurant was a tragedy. I'm not sure of the spelling and don't know if either then "n" or the "l" are double or both.
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#13 kitwilliams

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Posted 03 August 2002 - 08:26 PM

According to Nancy Silverton, it is spelled Canelles.

According to Lenotre, it is Canneles or Cannelets.

Either way, I was wrong.

I'd put my money on Lenotre.
kit

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#14 Bux

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Posted 04 August 2002 - 10:12 AM

I thought you used cannele and I follwed suit as it apeared to be the most familiar. I'd certainly go with Lenotre, but I've never seen the "t" at the end nor can I recall an accent mark, but I was notorious for my poor showings at spelling bees. A reliance on spellcheckers has not helped.
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#15 Patrice

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Posted 04 August 2002 - 03:34 PM

In all my french pastry book it's : un cannelé or des cannelés.
Patrice Demers

#16 charlotte baker

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Posted 05 August 2002 - 12:51 PM

I've been baking canneles since the mid-nineties and have never had a problem. I use Matfer molds which I got from Bridge and follow Michel Roux's recipe. It differs from the Gand and Herme recipes.

Michel Roux's Canneles

1 1/2 cups sweetened condensed milk
2 1/2 cups sugar
1 2/3 cups flour
3 whole eggs plus 2 egg yolks
5 tbsp rum
2 1/2 cups water
4 rbsp unsalted butter
1/2 cup whole milk powder

Combine condensed milk, sugar, flour. whole eggs, egg yolks and rum. Mix with a spatula.
Put tbe water, butter and powdered milk into a saucepan and bring to a boil, whisking continuously. Still whisking, pour the boiling liquid into the condensed milk mixture and mix until very smooth. Pour through a Chinois, let cool completely, transfer to an air tight container and refrigerate for at least 24 hours.

Preheat oven to 400. Prepare molds by brushing the insides with a combination of melted beeswax and peanut oil. Place the molds upside down on a cooling rack for 5 minutes, until the wax has set. Arrange the molds on a chilled baking sheet.

Whisk the cannele mixture and fill the molds almost to the top. Bake for 10 minutes, then turn the baking sheet 180 degrees and bake for another 20 to 25 minutes, until the canneles are deeply colored. Immediately unmold them onto a cooling rack.
Makes 36. ( I make the following changes. I use orange juice instead of rum since it is not a favorite. I spray the molds with a baking spray such as Mazola. )

#17 nightscotsman

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Posted 05 August 2002 - 03:23 PM

Wow, Michel Roux's recipe is very different from all of the others I've gathered so far. I will have to give it a try. Can you tell me which book it's from (if that's where you got it)?

I'm baking the Nancy Silverton recipe tonight, so we'll see if her version works better for me. The Herme recipe was closer, but still had problems.

Thanks for all the help everyone - this place is great! :biggrin:

#18 charlotte baker

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Posted 05 August 2002 - 03:40 PM

It's from Michel Roux's Finest Desserts. Got it at Kitchen Arts a few years ago.
If you ttry the recipe, I'd love to hear your comments.

#19 nightscotsman

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Posted 06 August 2002 - 01:00 PM

Thanks Charlotte, I'll add that one to my wish list. And I'll let you know what happens when I try the recipe.

Sadly, the Nancy Silverton recipe caused the same problem as all the others I've tried. Here's what is happening - as the cannele starts to bake it expands and pushes itself up and out of the mold, leaving a big airspace between the batter and the bottom of the mold. This means that the top tends to burn and the bottom never browns. I've tried slipping a knife down the side of the mold to release the pressure when it starts to rise, but within minutes of putting them back in the oven they spring out of the pan again. I actually "re-seated" them about five times before giving up and letting them bake. I'm getting really frustrated! :wacko:

Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you handle it? I'm using copper molds (both chilled and room temperature) and I've tried various coatings including butter, non-stick spray and lecithin. I've also tried oven temperatures from 350 to 410

#20 kitwilliams

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Posted 12 August 2002 - 12:43 PM

The pocket of air problem is one that I have not encountered. Very bizarre. Can't recall in your previous postings but have you tried the beeswax coating? I think I'll go out and find some beeswax today and see how that does in my next attempt. Although a friend of mine told me that the last batch I baked were just as he recalled in both France and Montreal so I'm pretty pleased with that. I reduced the sugar in Nancy Silverton's recipe by about a fifth/quarter...don't think that that will help you with your bubble trouble.
kit

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#21 22tango

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Posted 01 September 2002 - 07:53 AM

Night -- earlier you asked if there was a place to by professional pastry books. Check out: http://www.chipsbooks.com/ :smile:
Luscious smell like love
Essential black milk worship
It whispers to me...
...Chocolate


#22 Joni

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 10:00 AM

Thought I would push this subject to the top again, as I have just ordered a cannele mold from W-S and a french bakery in Portland is selling cannele. Wonderful little bite size treat that would be fun at parties.

So....anyone have any recent experiences, recipes or comments on the Michel Roux?

#23 chefette

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 05:22 PM

Hi Night and 22- no idea if you are still having trouble with the Canelles. I have not actually made them myself yet, I had one once and didn't like it so...

Anyway, I happened across a recipe from Herme so here it is if it is helpful. Looks like the key is keeping the molds and dough/batter quite cold, and chilling the dough/batter at least 24 hours. If they spring up, prick them with the tip of a knife.

Here is Herme's recipe from Patisierre of Piere Herme
500cc milk
1 vanilla bean (scraped)
bring milk and vanilla bean to biol and steep covered overnight - then renove the bean pod
combine in this order:
50 g melted butter (cooled)
250g 10X sugar
2 Egg yolks
2 eggs
100 g flour (I assume AP)
15g dark rum
the cold vanilla milk
chill batter at least 24 hours
grease molds and keep cold
Stir batter and fill molds up to 1-2 cm from rim
bake 200 degrees C
50 min for 3.5mm mold
60 min for 4.5 cm mold
75 min for 5.5 cm mold
unmold and eat immediattely

Flame out the molds before using the first time, only clean by rubbing with soft cloth.

Sounds like a real pain - good luck!

Edited by chefette, 22 February 2003 - 05:23 PM.


#24 Louisa Chu

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 05:42 PM

Sorry, I have not seen cannelés made nor have I made them myself yet but I will ask the pastry chefs at school next week as I do plan to make them eventually. A comment and a question. Comment, Parisians consider Poujauran to have the definitive classic cannelés in the city. They're very good but I hate the women who work there. And question, basic, basic question, do most professional patissiers in the States not go by weights? Thanks.

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#25 nightscotsman

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 05:57 PM

loufood: can't wait to hear what your instructors have to say. I've tried five or six different recipes including the Pierre Herme version and always had them pop up in the molds as I described earlier. I haven't baked them for a few months, so maybe it's time to try again.

#26 Jim Dixon

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 07:02 PM

Ken's Artisan Bakery in Portland makes incredible canneles...they flavor them with a bit of orange zest, and I know the molds are lined with a butter-beeswax blend.

I watched the batter going into the molds, and it was very thin, if that helps.

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#27 Michael Laiskonis

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Posted 22 February 2003 - 11:25 PM

Parisians consider Poujauran to have the definitive classic cannelés in the city. They're very good but I hate the women who work there.



I definitely sense that people either love or hate Poujauran. I'm in the former group. I think his basic pastry (financiers, cannelés, etc.) is as good as his bread. We tend to stay in that neighborhood when we go, and Poujuaran is always the first stop once we hit the pavement. When the girls are snooty, I actually find it a bit amusing!

The best cannelés I've had stateside were indeed the ones at La Brea Bakery in Los Angeles.

Edited by Michael Laiskonis, 22 February 2003 - 11:27 PM.

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#28 thelastsupper

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 02:33 AM

I have only seen the beeswax method. And it was melted by a torch (which helped the overall color of the canneles). I was in Bordeaux and the Périgord this summer and of all the ones I sampled, all had flecks of vanilla. Yum. Fill them full (or as full as you had them to get them barely puffed, rather) and let the beeswax take care of the color! Maybe.

#29 Louisa Chu

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 03:24 AM

nightscotsman, I've got pastry tomorrow so will definitely ask then. I'm dying to find out. Doing regional cakes tomorrow so this will be interesting.

An aside, most of my classmates hate when I ask questions. It sometimes depresses me. I wish we had the kind of discussions there as we do here.

Michael, as for Poujauran, I have a love/hate relationship with them. I like their more interesting boulangerie items - especially a crusty mini fig/nut bread - but have not been impressed with their viennoiserie - find their croissant au beurre almost always a bit sloppy and overbaked - canneles good - but a little lacking in toothsomeness sometimes. But their rudeness, shocking. I will not buy from there - if I want something, I ask a friend to pick it up.

Just wanted to add - they're not being snooty. In fact it's quite the opposite.

Edited by loufood, 23 February 2003 - 03:28 AM.


#30 Joni

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Posted 23 February 2003 - 08:59 AM

Jim....Ken's Bakery is where I tasted them!! Then I read the recipe from Fleur de Lys in Williams-Sonoma... so I am going to buy the silicone form for canneles from them..that way the "mold" problem of sticking should not be a worry! Now...to get them to taste like Ken's!!