Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Cooking & Curing from "Charcuterie": Part 1

Charcuterie Cookbook

  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
599 replies to this topic

#271 Expat Russ

Expat Russ
  • participating member
  • 35 posts
  • Location:Metro Detroit

Posted 02 March 2006 - 07:12 PM

A PID is most probably overkill for a smoker, a regular on/off temp controller, which can be bought for $50, would work perfectly fine. You don't need perfect control in a smoker, maintaining temp withing +-15 deg. will work, and a temp controller would do that.

Not only that, a PID may not be able to control any better than a standard controller could because of the setup and how long it takes for the probe to pick up a temperature change.

My point is, if that is the only change in the new smokers, i'd buy an old model on clearance, and add a $50 controller, and a $10 temp probe.

Let me know if you wnat information on where to buy one.

jason

View Post


thanks for your feedback. i am leaning towards buying an old one...if for nothing else than i like to tinker, and besides, what is wrong with a little overkill - especially with cold smoking....the bradley forums seem to think a pid gives much better control...on a lighter note and back on subject...i'm off to butcher-packer (the store not the website) on saturday...one of the good things about living in detroit. getting some pink salt and making a corned beef.

russ

Edited by Expat Russ, 02 March 2006 - 07:13 PM.

Expat Russ

Three Passions:

Food
Travel<=click to go to my travel website...
BBQ and BQ<=click to go to my blog about trying to balance great food and qualifying for the Boston Marathon

#272 Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 19,627 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 03 March 2006 - 08:04 PM

On this fine Friday night, while everyone else in the house is in bed, I'm up finishing my fresh bacon with the oven roast -- and I'm remembering that last time the "two hour" roasting period to get the belly up to 150F is a bit closer to four hours.... :hmmm:
Chris Amirault
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

#273 Anna N

Anna N
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 6,459 posts
  • Location:Oakville, Ontario, Canada

Posted 04 March 2006 - 01:48 AM

On this fine Friday night, while everyone else in the house is in bed, I'm up finishing my fresh bacon with the oven roast -- and I'm remembering that last time the "two hour" roasting period to get the belly up to 150F is a bit closer to four hours.... :hmmm:

View Post


I am SO jealous! I am waiting anxiously for the 22 of March when another trip to Toronto is in the works and I can get some pork bellies and I hope some fat back. The bacon I made I put on the table for our annual Danish lunch and it disappeared so fast that I didn't even get a slice!
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#274 hwilson41

hwilson41
  • participating member
  • 479 posts
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted 04 March 2006 - 02:54 PM

The bacon I made I put on the table for our annual Danish lunch and it disappeared so fast that I didn't even get a slice!

View Post

You are probably a more noble person than I, Anna, but that would really piss me off :raz: :biggrin:.

Re my current bacon experiment ("practicing..." as one of the authors says), made it back from the Amish farm late yesterday, with one piece of pork belly that looked amazing. It measured roughly 11 x 17 inches and weighed 11.5 lbs (I have pics, but will save them for the end result). I cut it in half, applied the maple cure from the recipe, with 1 tsp or so of pepper added to each recipe, and socked the two pieces away in 2 gallon ziplocks. It was over 2" thick in many places, so I'm doubtful that it will fully cure in 7 days, but we shall see. Also brought back some apple wood from a friend's farm that I will use to smoke it. I can hardly wait :biggrin:.
"My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Champagne." John Maynard Keynes

#275 snowangel

snowangel
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 8,140 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 04 March 2006 - 03:52 PM

Oh, I'm in heaven. I have Charcuterie (albeit from the library, but that will make me know that I have this book). My local meat market normally carries pork bellies, but they are out until next week. They also carry casings and a full line of salts and curing agents. And, best of all, this place is but 4 miles from my house.

Happy dance!
Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

#276 Anna N

Anna N
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 6,459 posts
  • Location:Oakville, Ontario, Canada

Posted 04 March 2006 - 04:06 PM

Oh, I'm in heaven.  I have Charcuterie (albeit from the library, but that will make me know that I have this book).  My local meat market normally carries pork bellies, but they are out until next week.  They also carry casings and a full line of salts and curing agents.  And, best of all, this place is but 4 miles from my house.

Happy dance!

View Post


Susan - DON'T DO THIS TO ME!!!
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#277 hwilson41

hwilson41
  • participating member
  • 479 posts
  • Location:Fairfax, VA

Posted 04 March 2006 - 04:43 PM

Oh, I'm in heaven.  I have Charcuterie (albeit from the library, but that will make me know that I have this book).  My local meat market normally carries pork bellies, but they are out until next week.  They also carry casings and a full line of salts and curing agents.  And, best of all, this place is but 4 miles from my house.

Happy dance!

View Post


Susan - DON'T DO THIS TO ME!!!

View Post

Susan, I'll be very curious how long it takes you to read Charcuterie from cover to cover. It didn't take me very long, and I'm a somewhat slow reader :wacko:.

Anna, not to worry. It's sort of like sex. The longer you go without, the better it is when you finally get there :raz: :raz:.
"My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Champagne." John Maynard Keynes

#278 Anna N

Anna N
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 6,459 posts
  • Location:Oakville, Ontario, Canada

Posted 04 March 2006 - 04:48 PM

Oh, I'm in heaven.  I have Charcuterie (albeit from the library, but that will make me know that I have this book).  My local meat market normally carries pork bellies, but they are out until next week.  They also carry casings and a full line of salts and curing agents.  And, best of all, this place is but 4 miles from my house.

Happy dance!

View Post


Susan - DON'T DO THIS TO ME!!!

View Post

Susan, I'll be very curious how long it takes you to read Charcuterie from cover to cover. It didn't take me very long, and I'm a somewhat slow reader :wacko:.

Anna, not to worry. It's sort of like sex. The longer you go without, the better it is when you finally get there :raz: :raz:.

View Post


HRUMPH! We need a raspberry smilie. :raz:
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#279 snowangel

snowangel
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 8,140 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 04 March 2006 - 05:02 PM

Susan, I'll be very curious how long it takes you to read Charcuterie from cover to cover.  It didn't take me very long, and I'm a somewhat slow reader :wacko:.


As I spend about 7 hours tomorrow in a horrid gym (volleyball for Diana), I think I will get this book read pretty darned fast, and sit and dream of my belly and various curing agents.
Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

#280 ronnie_suburban

ronnie_suburban
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 5,977 posts
  • Location:Suburbs of Chicago

Posted 04 March 2006 - 10:55 PM

I'm just a few hours away from smoking my 2 bellies which have been curing since last Friday night. One is, again, exact to the recipe in the book. On the other one, I've cut the maple syrup to only 1 fluid ounce and added 2 T of Exquisite-Grade, sweet, Hungarian Paprika.

Naturally, it's supposed to snow tomorrow, so I'm going down to the basement now to haul up the large umbrella and stand.

Mother Nature is going to be my bacon's bitch.

=R=
"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

#281 Chris Amirault

Chris Amirault
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 19,627 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 05 March 2006 - 08:56 AM

Photos, s'il vous plait, Ron.

I wanted to say that a quick trip through some boiling water as per our authors' suggestion reduced the salt level significantly in my latest batch of bacon. It's damned tasty, in fact! I've got five half-pound bags in the freezer: two blanched lardons pre-cut, and three non-blanched thick cut strips.
Chris Amirault
camirault@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics Signatory
Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts

#282 jackal10

jackal10
  • participating member
  • 5,036 posts

Posted 05 March 2006 - 09:32 AM

I'm confused.
In Chacuterie bacon is hot smoked or otherwise cooked.
Here in UK, and in many other sources bacon is either green (not smoked) or cold smoked.
Is this just this book or is what is called bacon in the US different?

#283 jmolinari

jmolinari
  • participating member
  • 1,363 posts

Posted 05 March 2006 - 09:34 AM

In the US, bacon is normally cold smoked too. Cold smoking at home is very difficult, so the book falls back onto hot smoking, which is better than no smoking

#284 jmolinari

jmolinari
  • participating member
  • 1,363 posts

Posted 05 March 2006 - 10:50 AM

Here is the sequence of my boneless leg of lamb prosciutto. I've made it before, bone-in, and it is fantastic. It is very similar in flavor to what they have in italy, made with a goat leg, called a "violino". Very gamey, and lamby. You have to really enjoy the flavor of lamb to enjoy it, as it is very intensified. If you're one of those people who doesn't like lamb, because it tastes like lamb...well...don't bother:)

Here is the boneless leg, rubbed with sugar, salt, black pepper, rosemary and i think thats it, i don't remember, i have it in my notes if anyone wants specifics.

Posted Image

This is the leg after 3 weeks in the cure. At 2 weeks, i rerubbed the leg with the 2nd half of the cure, and flipped it.

Posted Image

After that, the lamb was rinsed well, and left to soak for 40 minutes in cold water. Teh water was changed and the lamb left to soak for another 40 mins. Then it was dried very well, and i tried to find a way to make it a neat round bundle, but was unable to. So i cut one piece off, and made a little roll out of that, and a bigger roll out of the other.

Posted Image

The 2nd bigger piece was cased in 100mm collagen casings and tied as well.

Posted Image

These will be hung in my curing chamber until they've lost about 35% of their weight, my guess is the little one will take about 4 weeks and the larger one about 6-7.

I'll report results when i cut them.

jason

#285 ronnie_suburban

ronnie_suburban
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 5,977 posts
  • Location:Suburbs of Chicago

Posted 05 March 2006 - 11:18 AM

Very cool, Jason. What's the idea behind the casing? That's not something I normally associate with prosciutto, but I'm such a neophyte. Does it provide some advantage during the drying process?

=R=
"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

#286 jmolinari

jmolinari
  • participating member
  • 1,363 posts

Posted 05 March 2006 - 12:56 PM

well, whenever i make coppa or bresaola i always put them in casings. It may slow down drying a little. I guess i'll see if it is worth the effort once i compare the cased vs. uncased. I'm pretty sure that the uncased one will have a dry outer shell.

jason

#287 snowangel

snowangel
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 8,140 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 05 March 2006 - 06:26 PM

Well, during the down times at Diana's volleyball games today, I plowed through most of this book. Wow. This book, BTW, is not a $35.00 book, but let's add on a meat grinder and a sausage stuffer.

I'm hot to do stuff, and I will have a pork belly and I'm so lucky that the meat market that will supply this can also supply all manners of casings as well as salts, etc.

So, just following bacon, I 'm going to experiment and try some sort of sausage with venision and cherries.

Wow. (additionally lucky because my back door neighbor has a Bradley that will cold smoke, and if I share some, he'll gladly lend).
Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

#288 MarkinHouston

MarkinHouston
  • participating member
  • 269 posts

Posted 05 March 2006 - 08:49 PM

Well, during the down times at Diana's volleyball games today, I plowed through most of this book.  Wow.  This book, BTW, is not a $35.00 book, but let's add on a meat grinder and a sausage stuffer.

I'm hot to do stuff, and I will have a pork belly and I'm so lucky that the meat market that will supply this can also supply all manners of casings as well as salts, etc.

So, just following bacon, I 'm going to experiment and try some sort of sausage with venision and cherries.

If you have some venison round steak in your freezer, the venison terrine with dried cherries is excellent; I added some peeled pistachios for the color but otherwise followed the directions.

Wow.  (additionally lucky because my back door neighbor has a Bradley that will cold smoke, and if I share some, he'll gladly lend).

View Post



#289 James Satriano

James Satriano
  • participating member
  • 26 posts
  • Location:Redding CT

Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:50 AM

I have begun to dry my bresaola. It is hanging in my basement at 60 dregees and 60% humidity. I rubed it lightly with EVOO. I will keep you informed. In response to questions on previous posts, no this isn't my first attempt at charcuterie. I have been curing and smoking Canadian bacon for about a year now. This is my first attempt at air curing anything. I want to try soprasatta next but I fear I am spoiled. I frequently stop at the Italian section of the Bronx called Arthur Ave. and get some of the best soprasatta I have ever tried. Hard to compete. But I digress. For Christmes I made the scallop and crab terrine with very good results. Note to Michael R. The recipe states that you need 8 leeks and it should be 8 leek leaves. Thanks to all

Jim

#290 Adam Balic

Adam Balic
  • participating member
  • 4,882 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 06:57 AM

Here is the sequence of my boneless leg of lamb prosciutto. I've made it before, bone-in, and it is fantastic. It is very similar in flavor to what they have in italy, made with a goat leg, called a "violino". Very gamey, and lamby. You have to really enjoy the flavor of lamb to enjoy it, as it is very intensified. If you're one of those people who doesn't like lamb, because it tastes like lamb...well...don't bother:)



jason

View Post


How interesting. Historically, Mutton hams where produced in the UK, it was quite a common trade item from Scotland to England. They were usually smoked. I have a few recipes for them, if you are interested I could post these.

#291 jmolinari

jmolinari
  • participating member
  • 1,363 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 07:08 AM

Adam, the recipe would interest me, if it isn't too much trouble.
jason

#292 FoodMan

FoodMan
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 4,316 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 09:03 AM

ok, finally managed to download the picture of the pancetta I made:

Posted Image

I am very happy how this half batch turned out and I do not think it needs any alteration. Tasted great thinly sliced on top of pizza yesterday. I will certainly be making more of this pancetta and certainly some smoked (hopefully cold)American bacon pretty soon.

E. Nassar
Houston, TX

My Blog
contact: enassar(AT)gmail(DOT)com


#293 SethG

SethG
  • participating member
  • 1,676 posts
  • Location:Brooklyn, NY

Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:39 AM

FWIW, my classic dill pickles came out great! Delicious, crunchy, a touch of spiciness from my fresh pickling spices. I can't wait to try it out with kirbys from the greenmarket in season. I'll also make 'em hotter.
"I don't mean to brag, I don't mean to boast;
but we like hot butter on our breakfast toast!"

#294 jackal10

jackal10
  • participating member
  • 5,036 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:57 AM

I'd appreciate the recipe (and original source) for the mutton hams, and the other delicious things mentioned: scarlet and hung beef, and powdered goose...

I've just made some fine bacon from Gloucester Old Spot belly and back; dry cured for a week (66g salt; 33g dark brown sugar; 1g saltpetre) then cold smoked over cherry for 36 hours.

Edited by jackal10, 06 March 2006 - 12:05 PM.


#295 Adam Balic

Adam Balic
  • participating member
  • 4,882 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:01 PM

1182. To cure Hams.-.....To each large ham allow half a pound of bay salt, two ounces of saltpetre, eight ounces of coarse sugar and half-pound of common salt, with four ounces of Jamaica and Black pepper, and one of coriander seed. pound all ingredients and heat and mix them well; but first rub in six ounces of the salt and the saltpetre, and after two days the rest of the salt and spices. Rub for half an hour. Lay the hams in a trough;-keep them carefully covered, and baste them with brine every day, or oftener;-turn them occasionally.

[Although. no mention is made in this recipe, from others in this section the ham lies in the brine for 3-4 weeks]

1186. Mutton-hams.-Proceed as at No.1182, using for one ham a fourth oth the salt, but half of the spices and sugar. Rub the ham well with the hot pounded salts.-[Obs.] Ram mutton, though disliked at the table, is when good, thought to make the best flavoured hams. In the Highlands, dried junipers are used in curing mutton hams. No sort of meat is more improved by smoking with aromatic woods then mutton. Mutton-hams, when dried, will keep long enough, but scarely improve after six months.

This is from "The Cook and Housewifes Manual" by Meg Dods (1829; Edinburgh).

#296 Abra

Abra
  • participating member
  • 3,186 posts
  • Location:Bainbridge Island, WA

Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:04 PM

Hurray, I finally have the book and have begun my dive toward the Divine Meat Pool. I'm trying to decide what to make first, what to order in the way of cures, and all thet. I'm wading through this thread at the same time I'm reading the book, but if anyone has a suggestion for the perfect first project, I'm all ears!

#297 Anna N

Anna N
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 6,459 posts
  • Location:Oakville, Ontario, Canada

Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:10 PM

Hurray, I finally have the book and have begun my dive toward the Divine Meat Pool.  I'm trying to decide what to make first, what to order in the way of cures, and all thet.  I'm wading through this thread at the same time I'm reading the book, but if anyone has a suggestion for the perfect first project, I'm all ears!

View Post


Make bacon! It is so easy and so satisfying.
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#298 jackal10

jackal10
  • participating member
  • 5,036 posts

Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:13 PM

Ahh..that inspires meto go and look in Farley (1790), eher there is a mutton ham, and also veal ham and beef hams...

#299 ronnie_suburban

ronnie_suburban
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 5,977 posts
  • Location:Suburbs of Chicago

Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:25 PM

Hurray, I finally have the book and have begun my dive toward the Divine Meat Pool.  I'm trying to decide what to make first, what to order in the way of cures, and all thet.  I'm wading through this thread at the same time I'm reading the book, but if anyone has a suggestion for the perfect first project, I'm all ears!

View Post


Make bacon! It is so easy and so satisfying.

View Post

I agree and because it takes a week or so to cure, you can probably turn out a batch of basic sausage after you've started it on its way.

=R=
"Hey, hey, careful man! There's a beverage here!" --The Dude, The Big Lebowski

LTHForum.com -- The definitive Chicago-based culinary chat site

ronnie_suburban 'at' yahoo.com

#300 Abra

Abra
  • participating member
  • 3,186 posts
  • Location:Bainbridge Island, WA

Posted 06 March 2006 - 03:30 PM

I've been thinking bacon, too. But last night I made a fabulous Carbonara with some Armandino Batali-cured guanciale, so that's on my mind too. And that lop yuk looks beyond delicious! Chris, did you ever re-do the recipe to include a brining step? I'm off to the market to talk with my butcher about pork bellies. I know to ask for skin on, and I thought I saw "ribs on" too in the book, but I don't see them in anyone's photos. Is that a problem?





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Charcuterie, Cookbook