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Chocolate Tempering Machines

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#151 Chris Hennes

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:23 AM

I tried it, but honestly found tempering by hand faster, easier, and less messy.

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#152 AnythingButPlainChocolate

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:25 AM

I did read the John Lewis thread with interest yesterday, but purely from a tummy rumbling point of view rather than thinking about tempering. I can see how, with a bit of practice it's eminently do-able.
Sian

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#153 Chris Hennes

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:42 AM

What is your expected output? How much are you looking to temper at once? And what's your budget? Tempering machines by and large are not cheap devices (it's a pretty niche market).

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#154 AnythingButPlainChocolate

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:52 AM

So I've noticed. I've been looking into it for a few months now (hence the jealousy at what's unavailable).

I was hoping for something larger than the Rev2, but am realistic that until my sales pick up, it's going to be that or a less well-known (to me) brand.

I've tried looking around my area to find a kitchen I could rent with chocolate making equipment, but have so far lucked out. So I'm hoping to spend as little as possible with the hope that once I start networking with others either kitchen availability or more money will come up and I can move out of my kitchen into something a bit more suited.

My turn-over is likely to be small to start with (as with before, I have to be realistic, even if I hope for better) so a 1.5lb unit will be sufficient.

I've been looking around and have seen a few different makes available in the UK, but it is but a handful: ChocoVision (a well known make), Chocolatier Electroniqu (an unknown for me, not been able to find out much about them) and Chocolate World.
Sian

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#155 Chris Hennes

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:00 AM

Have you considered just using melters? They are a lot cheaper than fully-automatic tempering machines: of course they require a little babysitting, but you can make them work. And they will be useful to you even when your volume picks up, and you start tempering in an automatic machine and just transferring the tempered chocolate to the melter when it's ready to go.

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#156 AnythingButPlainChocolate

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 08:18 AM

I wasn't sure how well a water-based melter would work with the chocolate (not wanting to ad extra moisture into the chocolate), but the decent melters I did find were about the same prices as the small temperers, although naturally the melters could hold more chocolate.

Are the melters accurate enough to hold in temper for a long time while doing a lot of dipping?

I'm happy enough with manually tempering as that's how I learnt.

Edited by AnythingButPlainChocolate, 25 May 2011 - 08:21 AM.

Sian

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#157 Chris Hennes

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 09:43 AM

At the eG Candy and Confectionery conference we used a bunch of Mol d' Art melters and they held the temper all day without much trouble, just the occasional application of a heat gun to the surface and some stirring. If you are doing dipping I think you are going to want a melter regardless of whether you use it for tempering.

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#158 lapin d'or

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 10:28 AM

In addition to looking at the equipment available from Vantage House you might also look at keylink and the home chocolate factory.

I bought both my Mol d'Art melters from HB ingredients but their equipment range is quite limited.

I started with the 3kg (round bowl) Mol d'Art melter and later bought the larger one to make working with larger figure moulds more practical. They hold temper well but you need to manage the way the chocolate can gradually thicken up, so as mentioned above, use a heat gun regularly to keep it fluid.

My biggest problem with working from a home kitchen in the England (Devon) is managing the room temperature and the especially the humidity.

I hope that helps,

lapin

#159 Edward J

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 07:22 PM

My thoughts on this are almost the same as Chris's--you'd be better off with a larger melter.

I have the small rev. machine, probably one of the first (back then it was chocovision)and it works good. O.T.O.H. it is too small to cast shells for bon-bons, too small to dip anything more than a dozen or two of truffles.

The mol'dart's are robust melters and are quite good, big enough to cast a few trays of bon-bons, and accurate enough to hold their temperature for a few hours.

Currently I have two 20 kg water bath type melters at work, and am quite happy with them.

Here's where you have to bit the bullet. If you do get a fully automatic temperer without first learning to temper by hand, you will be in for a "surprise" in a year from now if the machine breaks down or whatever. With a melter you temper by hand, and gain the knowledge and experience needed.

#160 AnythingButPlainChocolate

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 11:50 PM

Thanks for the advice all, you've convinced me, melters are the way to go as I can continue to use them in the future if/when I expand.

I'm glad I posted!

And especially thanks lapin, it's nice to have some regional-specific advice. The heat in my place isn't a problem with 3 foot thick stone walls (I live in an 1800's school house) but the humidity is worth noting. I was going to buy a de-humidifyer for the room and a wine chiller with de-humidifying salts to store the chocolate in for that very reason.
Sian

"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy chocolate, and that's kinda the same thing really."

#161 confiseur

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 07:06 AM

A friend of mine will probably be willing to sell his Rev 2 .. still in original packaging, never been used and sat in his store room for the last 2 years...at a very reasonable price indeed if you are interested.

#162 chocoera

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:29 PM

hey chocolate lovers!
so....i'm going to bite the bullet and buy a tempering unit for christmas season. currently we use 3 table top mol d' arts, 2: 5 lbs and 1: 10 lb. the unit i'd like would be a 10 lb at minimum, if i could go up a little more i would, but not sure how big they get before they get "massive"

anyone have thoughts on where to buy a unit and what brand works best for a professional kitchen? we currently temper every day and sometimes several times a day depending on production schedule, so i'd need one that's pretty reliable and keeps a good temper.


thanks for thinking about this!!
PS- if someone has one they don't need because they are upgrading in size, let me know!

#163 Kerry Beal

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 07:35 PM

Are you thinking you want a unit that you can attach an enrober to eventually?

#164 Baylee Chocolate Lady

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 09:27 PM

What is your budget?

#165 Edward J

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Posted 08 October 2011 - 11:14 PM

Tabletop Mol d'arts are fine but they are melters,not tempering machines.

Both Kelly and I are thinking tempering units, as in, press the button and walk away, and 20 minutes later, the couverture is tempered. These are usually coupled with an enrobing device.

I am still small volume,top capacity per day for me is 500 bon-bons, 240 50gr bars, and maybe a couple dozen hollow molded figures. For this,I have 2 large melters from D & R, and one cheap-o 5kg melter from Martillato for my white couverture. The D&R melters take a full size deep hotel-pan, I think 20 kg capapcity. I have one for dark, and one for milk. I also have the electric wheel, which usually sits in the dark, but sometimes I have an "all-day milk day" and swap the wheel into the milk melter. All temperature changes on the melters and tempering is done by me, manually. The units are bomb-proof, but as simple as a regular soup warmer. I work alone, and also produce pastries and high teas during the day as well.

Mol d'art makes a full line of s/s behemoths, from 40 kg and all the way up to institutional. Savvy makes a line of tempering and enrobing machines as well. Both of these companies are European, and nothing will be under 15 thousand. The units are well constructed, beautifull, really; but are complicated and computerized, and regular kitchen equipment repair guys will have no clue as how to service/repair them.

D & R (design and realization) is located in Montreal, and is geared towards the smaller artisan producer.

Hope this helps,

#166 Chocolot

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Posted 09 October 2011 - 06:25 AM

I have a Hilliard 80# per day machine that I have used for 30 years and love it. Very dependable and easy to use. Downsides--harder to do molding out of it and the heat source is light bulbs and they are going to be harder to find. It is good for hand-dipping. I also have 3- 50# Savage that I also love. Very simple to use, almost a set it and forget it. They are designed to have water plumbed into the water jacket for quick temperature changes, but I just use them as a closed system. Very easy to mold with--open the spigot and the chocolate pours into your molds. Tap the excess back into the top of the melter. I can hold temper for several days in these. I also have a Perfect wheel temperer with my enrober. It works, but I still prefer the Savage for tempering.

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#167 chocoera

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:40 AM

Are you thinking you want a unit that you can attach an enrober to eventually?



i'm sure that would be smart to consider, not sure on how much room i might need for that? i'd look at both options :)

#168 chocoera

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 08:44 AM

Tabletop Mol d'arts are fine but they are melters,not tempering machines.

Both Kelly and I are thinking tempering units, as in, press the button and walk away, and 20 minutes later, the couverture is tempered. These are usually coupled with an enrobing device.

I am still small volume,top capacity per day for me is 500 bon-bons, 240 50gr bars, and maybe a couple dozen hollow molded figures. For this,I have 2 large melters from D & R, and one cheap-o 5kg melter from Martillato for my white couverture. The D&R melters take a full size deep hotel-pan, I think 20 kg capapcity. I have one for dark, and one for milk. I also have the electric wheel, which usually sits in the dark, but sometimes I have an "all-day milk day" and swap the wheel into the milk melter. All temperature changes on the melters and tempering is done by me, manually. The units are bomb-proof, but as simple as a regular soup warmer. I work alone, and also produce pastries and high teas during the day as well.

Mol d'art makes a full line of s/s behemoths, from 40 kg and all the way up to institutional. Savvy makes a line of tempering and enrobing machines as well. Both of these companies are European, and nothing will be under 15 thousand. The units are well constructed, beautifull, really; but are complicated and computerized, and regular kitchen equipment repair guys will have no clue as how to service/repair them.

D & R (design and realization) is located in Montreal, and is geared towards the smaller artisan producer.

Hope this helps,



hi edward,
yes we temper by hand currently and would like to look into an actual machine. i am also small volume right now and will look into D&R (was unfamiliar this company existed) :P
so how exactly does this wheel thing work that you're talking about? do you temper by seed method and manual aggitation? or how do you temper with your melter and wheel? would love to learn more and will check out the D&R site :)

#169 chocoera

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:15 AM

I have a Hilliard 80# per day machine that I have used for 30 years and love it. Very dependable and easy to use. Downsides--harder to do molding out of it and the heat source is light bulbs and they are going to be harder to find. It is good for hand-dipping. I also have 3- 50# Savage that I also love. Very simple to use, almost a set it and forget it. They are designed to have water plumbed into the water jacket for quick temperature changes, but I just use them as a closed system. Very easy to mold with--open the spigot and the chocolate pours into your molds. Tap the excess back into the top of the melter. I can hold temper for several days in these. I also have a Perfect wheel temperer with my enrober. It works, but I still prefer the Savage for tempering.



the savage sounds close to what i'm looking for...not sure if i'd dig the idea of light bulbs :S plus being in algona, we don't have much of anything here in terms of if something breaks or needs replacing. thanks ruth!

#170 chocoera

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 11:17 AM

What is your budget?



well. not sure. i've never been one for machines because i'm a control freak and figure i temper best manually and if it screws up, its on me, and i can change me...if a machine screws up...then what do you do? but i know i need to upgrade so thinking about a machine that is quality ;) at the same time we just bought our building and renovated my space and brad's space, so $ is short. so i figure i can try a machine and then upgrade later? that long story being said, i figure i could convince brad to spend $2,000-5,000 now, and maybe upgrade later? will that get me anything? :P

#171 Edward J

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 04:19 PM

www.dr.ca

I temper by seed method.
The wheel is a separate unit and sits in the tub. It just spins around and at the top there is a comb and a chute. Couverture flows out of the chute and back into the tub. Not a bad set up for smaller places, and the units are pretty much bomb-proof.

#172 Baylee Chocolate Lady

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Posted 11 October 2011 - 10:35 PM

The termpering machine will save you time. We have to multi-task: while the machine is heating or cooling, we can work on a ganache or make caramel or whatever. I have the feeling that an automatic machine would drive you nuts. My trusty old ACMC's have to be monitored and we add seed, but they are usually dependable. Too small for your needs probably.When I started out, that was all I had and I turned out a lot of product. I left seed behind the baffle and let it melt while I worked. They are just 6 pound machines but I used 3- to 40 pounds a day for dipping. And I felt in control. Have you been to any of the trade shows? There are a lot of choices displayed, especially at the Philly Shows and, I think, the RCI meetings. When you are out of town, you can ask chocolatiers what they use. I have gotten to see a number of kitchens and lots of equpment that way. Folks seem very generous with their time and informaton as long as I am away from my home turf. Sometimes there are ads on the RCI site or The Chocolate Life site. Happy hunting.

#173 Lior

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 09:38 AM

I even smaller than you guys here. Much. I use 2 6kg mol d'art melters, and 2 X3210 "tempering" machings from chocovision. Works perfectly for me in a variety of combinations. I can keep melted choc in the melter-not tempered and as I use tempered choc from the machine, I replacce whatever I use with untempered from the melter and then add choc to the melter and this can go on for eternity!!!

#174 chocoera

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Posted 14 October 2011 - 04:17 PM

I even smaller than you guys here. Much. I use 2 6kg mol d'art melters, and 2 X3210 "tempering" machings from chocovision. Works perfectly for me in a variety of combinations. I can keep melted choc in the melter-not tempered and as I use tempered choc from the machine, I replacce whatever I use with untempered from the melter and then add choc to the melter and this can go on for eternity!!!


do you add the untempered behind the baffle or right into the tempered chocolate? do you have to be careful with your ratios?

#175 Coreen

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 10:01 PM

Hi all, does anyone here have experience working with ACMC tempering machine? I just received mine 2 weeks ago, have been working with it but I still see bloom in my chocolate bars. This is getting on my nerves as I dont get that kind of bloom when I was tempering by hand.

Done all the necessary reading online. Found out that the temperature shown is actually the temperature of the bowl, I have used my own thermometer for checks before using the chocolate. However Im still faced with similar bloom.

Any kind fellow chocolatier willing to share some tips with me on how to deal with the machine?

Thanks.

#176 JenBunk

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 11:40 PM

I owned an ACMC up until a couple months ago. Are you going for it once it hits the holding temp or are you taking a temper check and still getting bloom? My experience with the machine is once it hits holding temp it needs about 10 more minutes before it is in good temper. Also mine read about 3 degrees off. I had to keep my machine at 93 to get good temper. Hope this helps:)
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#177 Milangal

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 12:16 PM

I too have to have mine a few degrees warmer to keep in temper-Although-the one I have is the one JenBunk owned :)

Edited by Milangal, 15 September 2012 - 12:16 PM.


#178 Coreen

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 04:39 AM

I owned an ACMC up until a couple months ago. Are you going for it once it hits the holding temp or are you taking a temper check and still getting bloom? My experience with the machine is once it hits holding temp it needs about 10 more minutes before it is in good temper. Also mine read about 3 degrees off. I had to keep my machine at 93 to get good temper. Hope this helps:)


I owned an ACMC up until a couple months ago. Are you going for it once it hits the holding temp or are you taking a temper check and still getting bloom? My experience with the machine is once it hits holding temp it needs about 10 more minutes before it is in good temper. Also mine read about 3 degrees off. I had to keep my machine at 93 to get good temper. Hope this helps:)

I too have to have mine a few degrees warmer to keep in temper-Although-the one I have is the one JenBunk owned :)



oh which means, i should not rely on the temperature shown on the machine to get a good temper?? i set mine at 89.. when i first try out the machine, i do a temper check and keep getting a bloom.. now i have another question... does this mean that i need to set all my temperature for melting higher and the temperature for cooling slightly lower too???

#179 JenBunk

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 03:16 PM

Yeah, I would say you shouldn't rely on the machine temperature reading and only use it as a guide. I sold my machine to Milangal (above) a few months ago and now I use a melting tray. I don't use a thermometer at all, just look and feel and lots of temper checks.

With my machine I would bring it up to 118 and keep it there until I was sure all the chocolate was melted. Then I set it to 93 and added seed. I kept the seed in until I got a good temper, then I removed it. Like I said above, It would usually need about 10 more minutes after the machine read 93 before it was in good temper. I know every machine is different so yours may not be that off. How I noticed my machine temp was off when I was setting my temp to 89-90 my chocolate would start to get over crystallized and be super thick after only 20 min.

I would recommend tempering like you normally do and then once it reaches your holding temp just wait 10 or 15 minutes and do a temper check. If you are still getting bloom, adjust your temp one degree at a time until you find your sweet spot:)


I am no expert, just my experience with the machine. I hope this helps!
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#180 keychris

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:25 PM

I was taught to never rely on temperature - rely on the test.

If you're getting streaky, but no bloom - that's not enough crystals, it needs more stirring.
If you're getting bloom, the temperature of your chocolate is either too high or too low.

it's all about practice though - once you know what to set the bowl at and what the chocolate feels like when it's in temper, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about! :)





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