513 replies to this topic

[docsconz]

Are you inferring "Gilt by association?"

I'm sorry, but I couldn't resist.

You should be ashamed...

You sound like one of my kids

One thing I always loved about the name of the restaurant was the double entendre of gilt as in golden luxury and guilt as in the feeling some get when feasting on the excesses of golden luxury. The name was ripe with possibilities. As it now stands, with all due respect to the succeeding team, it is a surface of gold overlaying something else. I agree the name should be changed. I am still very much looking forward to exploring Chef Liebrandt's cuisine.

[oakapple]

The other day, my friend and I were mulling over our dining experiences over the last year. We've eaten at some very fine places, with Gilt being close to the most expensive. We had vaguely pleasant memories of the experience, but we couldn't specifically remember any particular dish that we had there. While we had no regrets about trying Gilt, it wasn't on our shortlist of places to try again anytime soon.

That was the problem with Gilt. To survive, a restaurant needs to build up a flock of steady regulars. Liebrandt's achievement at Gilt was admirable, but it didn't inspire loyalty. I think that's what killed it. Bruni's two-star review couldn't have helped, but I don't think the Times review can close a restaurant all by itself. People don't depend on the Times for the last word, the way they used to. Plenty of places have soldiered on successfully despite a negative review in the Times (e.g., Asiate).

[Sneakeater]

I never thought of it that way, but I think Oakapple has that exactly right.

[BryanZ]

Asiate is perhaps an apt comparison since it's also in a hotel and probably doesn't get much "foot" traffic due to its location and setup.

The difference, however, is the style of food. Asiate serves "safe" food; it's yet another take on Asian-New American fusion. Their type of food won't offend and they've got a killer view to boot. Gilt under Liebrandt, on the other hand, had the potential to offend given its somewhat non-traditional cuisine. Asiate's service model seems to be organized as an upper mid-level restaurant, rather than Gilt's true fine dining appraoch.

Personally, Gilt was on my short list of places to return to. The cost was somewhat prohibitive, but they did make attempts to attract more clients with their pre-theater seating. I would've been eating at Gilt this evening and was really looking forward to the meal, so all of this is unfortunate.

As details of the split are still hazy, its hard to say if I'm disappointed in the hotel for asking Liebrandt to leave, Liebrandt for packing up and out, or NYC diners for not supporting this type of food. From a pure cuisine standpoint, I found Liebrandt's dishes to be some of the most thought-provoking I've ever had.

[oakapple]

Asiate serves "safe" food; it's yet another take on Asian-New American fusion.  Their type of food won't offend and they've got a killer view to boot.  Gilt under Liebrandt, on the other hand, had the potential to offend given its somewhat non-traditional cuisine.  Asiate's service model seems to be organized as an upper mid-level restaurant, rather than Gilt's true fine dining appraoch.

You have a notion of "mid-level" that I'm not familiar with. At dinner, Asiate is prix fixe ($75) or tasting menu ($95) as the only options. That puts Asiate in probably the 98th percentile, with Gilt in the 99th or 100th. Asiate's service model, to me, appeared to be geared towards the upper end of three stars, and in fact was a bit smoother than Gilt's.

I do agree that Gilt's cuisine had the "potential to offend," but Liebrandt's cooking is really in a category unto itself, at least in New York. Asiate's cooking is "safer" than Liebrandt's, because practically everything is "safer" in that sense. But I wouldn't lump it into the standard Asian-Fusion model. Asiate's food is quite a bit more adventurous than, say, Vong.

[docsconz]

Asiate serves "safe" food; it's yet another take on Asian-New American fusion.  Their type of food won't offend and they've got a killer view to boot.  Gilt under Liebrandt, on the other hand, had the potential to offend given its somewhat non-traditional cuisine.  Asiate's service model seems to be organized as an upper mid-level restaurant, rather than Gilt's true fine dining appraoch.

You have a notion of "mid-level" that I'm not familiar with. At dinner, Asiate is prix fixe ($75) or tasting menu ($95) as the only options. That puts Asiate in probably the 98th percentile, with Gilt in the 99th or 100th. Asiate's service model, to me, appeared to be geared towards the upper end of three stars, and in fact was a bit smoother than Gilt's.

I do agree that Gilt's cuisine had the "potential to offend," but Liebrandt's cooking is really in a category unto itself, at least in New York. Asiate's cooking is "safer" than Liebrandt's, because practically everything is "safer" in that sense. But I wouldn't lump it into the standard Asian-Fusion model. Asiate's food is quite a bit more adventurous than, say, Vong.

I would have to agree with Bryan that intoday's NYC restaurant economy that price range qualifies as upper midlevel. While Asiate might not be quite as "safe" as Vong, that style restaurant has become relatively routine in major cities around the country.

I haven't yet had the pleasure of dining on Chef Liebrandt's cuisine, but I would have to wonder if even Ferran Adria would have difficulty in the conservative mid-town Manhatten market? Even downtown is difficult for truly creative cuisine. Wylie Dufresne seems to do a respectable business at WD-50, but a chef of his tremendous talents should be doing even better than that in my mind. WD-50 should be nearly impossible to get a reservation for, but it isn't.

[flinflon28]

A few weeks ago I watched chef Liebrandt in one of those cook off challenges on Food Network. So smooth and confident in his execution that it jumped out the screen. Really wish I had tried Gilt because no doubt he is talented.

Do you remember which show. I'd really like to see it. I worked with Paul at a Starchefs event was and he was kind, generous and had a killer sense of humor. I wish him the best.

Found it.
http://www.foodnetwo...7_44579,00.html

What did he cook on the show?
Thanks!

Thanks for the post and link!

[oakapple]

At dinner, Asiate is prix fixe ($75) or tasting menu ($95) as the only options.

I would have to agree with Bryan that intoday's NYC restaurant economy that price range qualifies as upper midlevel. While Asiate might not be quite as "safe" as Vong, that style restaurant has become relatively routine in major cities around the country.

There are probably more than 20,000 restaurants in new York City. Menupages has menus for more than 5,000. I am quite certain that there are not more than 100 NYC restuarants with an entry price of $75 at dinner. Asiate, therefore, is higher than the 98th percentile, even if you limit it to the population with menupages entries. Hence, by NYC standards, I'd say Asiate's $75 minimum is quite expensive, and puts it well within the top 100, and probably within the top 50. Gilt's prices, of course, were stratospheric, with perhaps only 5-10 places in town as expensive.

In New York, we have a disproportionate share of very expensive restaurants that no other American city can support on such a scale. On eGullet, a disproportionate share of the discussion is devoted to those restaurants. Perhaps we become lulled into thinking that these high-end restaurants are more typical than they really are.

Edited by oakapple, 22 August 2006 - 01:44 PM.

[Pan]

I would have to agree with Bryan that intoday's NYC restaurant economy that price range qualifies as upper midlevel.[...]

Where would lower highlevel start?

[Sneakeater]

Where upper midlevel ends, of course.

[rich]

Where upper midlevel ends, of course.

This is beginning to sound like a government report.

[robert40]

A few weeks ago I watched chef Liebrandt in one of those cook off challenges on Food Network. So smooth and confident in his execution that it jumped out the screen. Really wish I had tried Gilt because no doubt he is talented.

Do you remember which show. I'd really like to see it. I worked with Paul at a Starchefs event was and he was kind, generous and had a killer sense of humor. I wish him the best.

Found it.
http://www.foodnetwo...7_44579,00.html

What did he cook on the show?
Thanks!

I really cant recall exactly as I know he did something with lobster and vanilla, but there were many different components to his dishes.
What really caught my eye was how natural and smooth his movements are.
I'm sure you know what I mean. Every once in a great while a chef/cook comes along that you watch out the corner of your eye as your doing prep. That's the impression I got and what it reminded me of.

[docsconz]

At dinner, Asiate is prix fixe ($75) or tasting menu ($95) as the only options.

I would have to agree with Bryan that intoday's NYC restaurant economy that price range qualifies as upper midlevel. While Asiate might not be quite as "safe" as Vong, that style restaurant has become relatively routine in major cities around the country.

There are probably more than 20,000 restaurants in new York City. Menupages has menus for more than 5,000. I am quite certain that there are not more than 100 NYC restuarants with an entry price of $75 at dinner. Asiate, therefore, is higher than the 98th percentile, even if you limit it to the population with menupages entries. Hence, by NYC standards, I'd say Asiate's $75 minimum is quite expensive, and puts it well within the top 100, and probably within the top 50. Gilt's prices, of course, were stratospheric, with perhaps only 5-10 places in town as expensive.

In New York, we have a disproportionate share of very expensive restaurants that no other American city can support on such a scale. On eGullet, a disproportionate share of the discussion is devoted to those restaurants. Perhaps we become lulled into thinking that these high-end restaurants are more typical than they really are.

...and the vast majority of restaurants are in the less expensive range. The reason that there is a disproportionate amount of chatter here about the more expensive restaurants is that there is generally more to discuss. The better restaurants at the lower end of the price scale generate significant discussion as well. It is just that there are disproportionately more that are unworthy of major discussion.

I'm not saying that Asiate is cheap by any means, Mark, but there clearly are price strata with NYC restaurants. To argue it based on a percentage basis of total restaurants I believe misses the point. I think the better discussion is the stratification of price points and people's varying levels of comfort and expectations. Arbitrarily, perhaps $100pp for dinner before beverage, tax and tip may be a dividing point, although with the recent proliferation of very expensive restaurants that might even be too low. The better descriptor fo this stratification would be a pyramid with the most expensive restaurants on top. By this view I think Gilt and Asiate are clearly on different levels.

[Lateralus]

A comment from Gilt Chefs:

I sure you can all imagine how disappionted we are. We have no regrets in the way we handled our day to day business at Gilt. We cooked with all of our senses and emotions, trying to present an different and amzing experience for our diners. We thank all who experienced what we were creating, and we apologize to all who were unfortunate. We will be back!!!!!!

From the beginning there was no direction of Gilt. It came from the notion that a hotel needed a fine dinning restaurant to recieve thier 5th star from the Mobil Guide. It was based on the fact that they had means of money, but no experience to operate such a business(chef driven restaurant). We found out we were being relieved from our duties at Gilt on our last week of holiday. This how unprofessional they are. It was one head ach after another. We knew we had until about years end to change finacial statues of Gilt and they want something more approchable to the hotel guests. We were not at all surprised to be released in any way from Gilt. This is business. We respect their decision and wish Chef Chris Lee and his team happier success.

Lateralus.

Edited by Lateralus, 22 August 2006 - 05:08 PM.

[docsconz]

A comment from Gilt Chefs:

I sure you can all imagine how disappionted we are.  We have no regrets in the way we handled our day to day business at Gilt.  We cooked with all of our senses and emotions, trying to present an different and amzing experience for our diners.  We thank all who experienced what we were creating, and we apologize to all who were unfortunate.  We will be back!!!!!!

From the beginning there was no direction of Gilt.  It came from the notion that a hotel needed a fine dinning restaurant to recieve thier 5th star from the Mobil Guide.  It was based on the fact that they had means of money, but no experience to operate such a business(chef driven restaurant).  We found out we were being relieved from our duties at Gilt on our last week of holiday.  This how unprofessional they are.  It was one head ach after another.  We knew we had until about years end to change finacial statues of Gilt and they want something more approchable to the hotel guests.  We were not at all surprised to be released in any way from Gilt.  This is business.  We respect their decision and wish Chef Chris Lee and his team happier success.

Lateralus.

Thank you for the clarification. While it is business, it sounds as if the way in which it was handled by the hotel might have left something to be desired. I will join you in wishing well to the new staff. Any idea when they will start? Of course, that will need a new thread.

[tan319]

It will be great to see what the next adventure is like!
Thanks for checking in, Laterlus.
As for an above comment of mine, I don't wish the next chef any ill will or lack of success.
I'm merely disappointed at the struggles that people like Liebrandt and Dufresne have had at trying to do something a bit different.
Good Luck!

[BryanZ]

The better descriptor for this stratification would be a pyramid with the most expensive restaurants on top. By this view I think Gilt and Asiate are clearly on different levels.

This is all I was trying to say. Despite the similarities on the surface, actual operations were quite different. Because of these subtle differences and the avant garde food, Gilt, to me, was a better (for my tastes this often is synonymous with "more exciting") restaurant. Unfortunately, it seems that much of the NY dining public doesn't support this type of cuisine (yet?).

[Lateralus]

I have started new forum, please use for all inquiries subjected about Paul. Gilt is in the past, we are moving on. Thank You

[Lateralus]

Hi Feather!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mary Ann]

quote=Lateralus,Aug 22 2006, 08:05 PM]
A comment from Gilt Chefs:

I sure you can all imagine how disappionted we are. We have no regrets in the way we handled our day to day business at Gilt. We cooked with all of our senses and emotions, trying to present an different and amzing experience for our diners. We thank all who experienced what we were creating, and we apologize to all who were unfortunate. We will be back!!!!!!

From the beginning there was no direction of Gilt. It came from the notion that a hotel needed a fine dinning restaurant to recieve thier 5th star from the Mobil Guide. It was based on the fact that they had means of money, but no experience to operate such a business(chef driven restaurant). We found out we were being relieved from our duties at Gilt on our last week of holiday. This how unprofessional they are. It was one head ach after another. We knew we had until about years end to change finacial statues of Gilt and they want something more approchable to the hotel guests. We were not at all surprised to be released in any way from Gilt. This is business. We respect their decision and wish Chef Chris Lee and his team happier success.

Lateralus.

[/quote]





It's difficult to have a personality of your own when you're a chef at a hotel or resort. Cuisine that's "more approachable to hotel guests" means Sunday brunch and chocolate dipped strawberries. Good luck Paul. Ever forward...

MA

Edited by Mary Ann, 24 August 2006 - 06:48 PM.

[twodogs]

to be or not to be, that is the question...

[bunny]

has anyone been since the chef change.

[Nathan]

they haven't opened yet.

[LPShanet]

Lateralus,

Thanks for the update. Please post the location/name of the new forum here for those of us eager and curious about future plans for Paul and co.

For the record, I am one of the people who did visit the restaurant before it closed, and I have to say that the meal I had (which consisted of side by side complementary tasting menus for me and my date) was one of the most special and memorable I've ever had in my life...and I've had a lot! The marriage of creativity and deliciousness was really special, and put the place in a league of its own. It was like Wylie-type creativity done at a more ambitious and elegant level.

That said, I didn't get back there as often as I'd like, even though I sang the restaurant's praises to anyone who would listen. That must be indicative of why it closed...i.e. if I, who thought of it as one of my top two or three favorites in NY, only got there twice, it would be pretty tough for them to make a go of it.

The only reasons I can think of in my case were the extreme price level (I'm not saying it was worth it or not, but just noting that the prices were a little overwhelming) and the location in what I think of as the "old people zone". I had also liked Paul's cooking at Atlas quite a bit, but had only been there once.

Here's hoping we get more of Liebrandt's genius soon!

A comment from Gilt Chefs:

I sure you can all imagine how disappionted we are.  We have no regrets in the way we handled our day to day business at Gilt.  We cooked with all of our senses and emotions, trying to present an different and amzing experience for our diners.  We thank all who experienced what we were creating, and we apologize to all who were unfortunate.  We will be back!!!!!!

From the beginning there was no direction of Gilt.  It came from the notion that a hotel needed a fine dinning restaurant to recieve thier 5th star from the Mobil Guide.  It was based on the fact that they had means of money, but no experience to operate such a business(chef driven restaurant).  We found out we were being relieved from our duties at Gilt on our last week of holiday.  This how unprofessional they are.  It was one head ach after another.  We knew we had until about years end to change finacial statues of Gilt and they want something more approchable to the hotel guests.  We were not at all surprised to be released in any way from Gilt.  This is business.  We respect their decision and wish Chef Chris Lee and his team happier success.

Lateralus.

[Vadouvan]

Lateralus,

Thanks for the update. Please post the location/name of the new forum here for those of us eager and curious about future plans for Paul and co.

For the record, I am one of the people who did visit the restaurant before it closed, and I have to say that the meal I had (which consisted of side by side complementary tasting menus for me and my date) was one of the most special and memorable I've ever had in my life...and I've had a lot! The marriage of creativity and deliciousness was really special, and put the place in a league of its own. It was like Wylie-type creativity done at a more ambitious and elegant level.

LPS
I had two meals in the first 3 months of Gilt and they were well done, though we got some extra attention, I would have to say the first one was among the top 5 meals I have had in the USA, and certainly not the most expensive, though the Perse experience was a bit less solicitous and more luxurious, Leib's cooking certainly was more creative.
Certainly you could trace the inspiration in many ways back to Gagnaire-Balzac / Sketch but still it was pulled off sucessfully. The only thing I wonder about it the general lukewarm nature (temp wise) of sous-vide seafood, otherwise excellent.

Here's hoping we get more of Liebrandt's genius soon!

It's public knowledge that Leibrandt and Lee replaced each other, Lee permanently, Leibrandt maybe not.... but that is the deal.
Not planned that way, just a twist of fate.
Strange though because i dont see Leibrandts cooking philosophy in a Starr restaurant.
I like Starr but he isnt interested in that kind of precision food.
Strange bedfellows indeed.

[bunny]

they haven't opened yet.

they re-opened on sept. 5 i belive.

[docsconz]

Here's hoping we get more of Liebrandt's genius soon!

It's public knowledge that Leibrandt and Lee replaced each other, Lee permanently, Leibrandt maybe not.... but that is the deal.
Not planned that way, just a twist of fate.
Strange though because i dont see Leibrandts cooking philosophy in a Starr restaurant.
I like Starr but he isnt interested in that kind of precision food.
Strange bedfellows indeed.

Vadouvan, are saying that Liebrandt is going to work for Starr? That is not the impression I got from him last week, although I suppose it remains a possibility.

[Vadouvan]

I believe that may be the case.......temporarily.

[Nathan]

my understanding is that they are not serving anything close to the full menu yet.

[LPShanet]

Vadouvan,

Thanks for the update. My head is spinning...I can't even IMAGINE Liebrandt working for the mini-chain empire that Starr has created. Here in NY or at Lee's old roost (SB) in Philly? Would never have guessed it. I'll be curious to hear reports. And if someone will offer me an over/under on how long he stays there, I'll take it, even though I'm not by nature a betting man.

Lateralus,

Thanks for the update. Please post the location/name of the new forum here for those of us eager and curious about future plans for Paul and co.

For the record, I am one of the people who did visit the restaurant before it closed, and I have to say that the meal I had (which consisted of side by side complementary tasting menus for me and my date) was one of the most special and memorable I've ever had in my life...and I've had a lot! The marriage of creativity and deliciousness was really special, and put the place in a league of its own. It was like Wylie-type creativity done at a more ambitious and elegant level.

LPS
I had two meals in the first 3 months of Gilt and they were well done, though we got some extra attention, I would have to say the first one was among the top 5 meals I have had in the USA, and certainly not the most expensive, though the Perse experience was a bit less solicitous and more luxurious, Leib's cooking certainly was more creative.
Certainly you could trace the inspiration in many ways back to Gagnaire-Balzac / Sketch but still it was pulled off sucessfully. The only thing I wonder about it the general lukewarm nature (temp wise) of sous-vide seafood, otherwise excellent.

Here's hoping we get more of Liebrandt's genius soon!

It's public knowledge that Leibrandt and Lee replaced each other, Lee permanently, Leibrandt maybe not.... but that is the deal.
Not planned that way, just a twist of fate.
Strange though because i dont see Leibrandts cooking philosophy in a Starr restaurant.
I like Starr but he isnt interested in that kind of precision food.
Strange bedfellows indeed.