303 replies to this topic

[fifi]

Daniel . . . I have to agree. Cubed beef adds an admirable texture to chili and it is my preferred way to go. I do the same thing if I am adding pork. While my dad did various riffs on the basic Pedernales River Chili, one thing he did settle on was the cubed beef rather than ground. He would put whatever meat he was using (beef chuck, pork shoulder) in the freezer to get icy and start chopping away until he had basically 1/2 inch cubes. He had progressed from your generic ground beef to a coarse chili grind, done for him by the butcher, to the cubing process. Yes, cubing is a PITA but I think it is worth it.

I have just about all of the Bayless books. I am going to have to try one of the recipes. Just about everything else I have tried out of them has been spot on.

[Chris Amirault]

Linda, when you cube the beef, how big are the cubes? I tend to make them 1 1/2-2 inches, pretty big.

[fifi]

Linda, when you cube the beef, how big are the cubes? I tend to make them 1 1/2-2 inches, pretty big.

I will give you a lawyer's answer. It depends.

For the most part, I tend to cube at about 1/2 inch. I may go a bit larger for the Whacked Out Chili. That is because the beans, celery and red pepper pieces are a bit bigger. For the Pedernales River Chili, I tend to go with what dad did and head for 1/4 inch. Dad found that the texture was different by cubing rather than going for a coarse grind. I have to say that he was right.

That is not to say that I have not taken the easy way out and used ground meat. It is all good. It is just a matter of what texture you prefer. Remember, the classic came from well pounded meat so it shouldn't be chunky like a stew. However, I have done that too and it was a chili like stew which was very good. I guess this is a bit like gumbo. There are many different ways to skin a cat (not to say that cats make their way into my chili, though I can't vouch for some of my friends ), and they are all good.

[MarketStEl]

Daniel . . . I have to agree. Cubed beef adds an admirable texture to chili and it is my preferred way to go.

I thought the main objection everyone had to Daniel's plans is that hanger steak is one of those top-quality cuts that should simply be broiled or grilled and served as is. Usually for stew-like dishes, you want the cheaper cuts, as the cooking liquid will tenderize them.

I've never tried chili made with cubed meat; I generally like the thicker consistency I can get using ground beef. I may experiment sometime in the future.

Fifi: I have ancho powder, chipotle powder, dried chiles de arbol and a few dried habaneros on hand. I take some of your prior comments to mean if I have these, I can skip using chili powder?

[helenjp]

Chili recipes from the Geezer's Cookbook at macscouter.com was my first encounter with US-style chili.

...I hear that some people say that beans and chili should be cooked separately, served together, while others cook them together. ???.

[eje]

I know beef is traditional, but anyone else ever use pork?

Bone in pork country spare ribs are very nice for chile stews.

Not sure if it really qualifies as "Chili".

There is a tasty version in Diana Kennedy's "The Art of Mexican Cooking" called "Chilayo" which I have made many times. Country spare ribs, tomatillos, and a simple pureed sauce of 3 kinds of chiles, onions, garlic and a little cumin.

Some folks advise making your own chili powder using a "spice" grinder. I've found that my demoted coffee grinder doesn't really do that great a job of grinding chiles. I've gone back to either making chile puree or buying chili powder.

Edited by eje, 26 October 2005 - 12:01 AM.

[Chris Amirault]

I don't know why I have such a blister on my ass about advocating for cubed chuck, but here's chapter 14:

Dad found that the texture was different by cubing rather than going for a coarse grind. I have to say that he was right.

That is not to say that I have not taken the easy way out and used ground meat. It is all good. It is just a matter of what texture you prefer. Remember, the classic came from well pounded meat so it shouldn't be chunky like a stew.

Daniel . . . I have to agree. Cubed beef adds an admirable texture to chili and it is my preferred way to go.

I've never tried chili made with cubed meat; I generally like the thicker consistency I can get using ground beef. I may experiment sometime in the future.

What I've found is that cubed meat braised for a good long time reaches that point where it's both succulent and shredding into chunky strands that are more like well-pounded meat than meat that's been ground into small bits. I don't know why it is (McGee handy for anyone?), but ground beef never seems to get to that stage.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or am I spinning in some strange, red universe in my mind?

[snowangel]

IWhat I've found is that cubed meat braised for a good long time reaches that point where it's both succulent and shredding into chunky strands that are more like well-pounded meat than meat that's been ground into small bits. I don't know why it is (McGee handy for anyone?), but ground beef never seems to get to that stage.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or am I spinning in some strange, red universe in my mind?

Yes, Chris, I know what you are talking about. However, when it is 3:00 pm and the screaming hordes are gong to want dinner by 6:30 pm, ground chuck works just fine.

[TongoRad]

I tend to prefer cubes myself, and the larger the better, but about 25% of the time I'll just be in the mood for a 'ground beef and beans' chili. I just don't have the patience to cut my meat into 1/4" cubes but I do have an Indian restaurant near me that does that for their Keema Mattar. I can appreciate the textural differencce with the ground but so far haven't been inspired to do it myself. Here's my method for a last minute down and dirty chili (I won't say 'recipe' because a lot of the items are subject to change depending on my mood and/or what I have on hand):

Brown the ground beef in a stock pot or dutch oven. Remove to the side, drain the pot and wipe with a paper towel. Heat some oil and add chopped onions, caramelize until just turning brown. Add chopped garlic for a few seconds, and then a few tablespoons of flour. Keep it moving until the 'roux' takes on a nutty character and then in go the chile powders and spices. Allow this to bloom for a few seconds, but not to change color. Add the liquid (water and/or beer) until the sauce is the consistency of pea soup. Then the beef and drained beans can go in and simmer it for another 15 to 20 minutes.

My chile powders are usually a combination of NuMex (hot and mild), Ancho, Pasilla and Chipotle and I prefer making them myself. I have also found that the paprika that I get from my local Indian market makes a very reasonable substitute for mild chile powder ( and it is kick-ass fresh and cheap to boot!).
eje:

Some folks advise making your own chili powder using a "spice" grinder. I've found that my demoted coffee grinder doesn't really do that great a job of grinding chiles. I've gone back to either making chile puree or buying chili powder.

Do you dry them out before grinding them? I usually put them on a wire rack on a sheet pan, and the put the works in a 175degF oven for a half hour. Then I turn off the oven without opening the door and leave it alone overnight (if possible). They come out very brittle but not scorched or bitter, and grind fairly well in an ordinary coffee grinder. I also pass the powder through a fine strainer, and there is some waste but not much.

[fifi]

. . . . .
Fifi:  I have ancho powder, chipotle powder, dried chiles de arbol and a few dried habaneros on hand.  I take some of your prior comments to mean if I have these, I can skip using chili powder?

What is in the stores as "chili powder" is usually a combo of some sort of powdered chile, usually ancho, garlic and cumin. Some even bulk the stuff up with salt. If you have your own pure powder or puree, you have more control over your seasoning.

. . . . .
...I hear that some people say that beans and chili should be cooked separately, served together, while others cook them together. ???.

Here is some science . . . If you use tomatoes in your chili that is an acid. As we discussed in the Dried Bean thread, acid stops the cooking of the beans. Usually, beans are added to chili as cooked beans. The acid effect is really to your advantage in that the beans won't get any mushier. IMHO, if you are going to put beans in your chili, they shouldn't be mushy.

. . . . .
What I've found is that cubed meat braised for a good long time reaches that point where it's both succulent and shredding into chunky strands that are more like well-pounded meat than meat that's been ground into small bits. I don't know why it is (McGee handy for anyone?), but ground beef never seems to get to that stage.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or am I spinning in some strange, red universe in my mind?

I know exactly what you are talking about. But I haven't a clue as to why that should be so. Maybe it is because with ground meat, you may have the same ratio of collagen-->gelatin but it isn't hooked up with the muscle fiber in the same way. That is my wild guess.

I will have to say that I do make chili with ground meat because cubing is a bit of a pain. When I just want a quick bowl of red, I head for the ground chuck. My dad kept experimenting with ground turkey, trying to make something edible out of it, and came up with some good stuff.

Now I will go back to spinning in my own strange, red universe.

[Malawry]

I said that if Daniel used that hanger steak in a chili, I'd cry. Here I am: *cry* But it's for two reasons: 1. I'd much rather eat a hanger steak seared or grilled the old-fashioned way, yet 2. The finished chili looks so damn good that it's making me hungry and I just ate lunch.

Has anybody ever made the Ohio sausage chili from the latest Joy of Cooking? It's an interesting recipe, like a thick sausage stew.

[MarkinHouston]

has anyone ever had green chilli................

i lived in northeast CO for a while, and it was a staple there..........

in most small towns you could get anything on a menu "smothered".....

usually it was cubed pork steak with all the bling one would put in chilli, but everything was green, instead of red......

a few crushed red tomatoes at the very end.........

it was pretty damn good.  i've never seen it anywhere else........

I have used this recipe for chile verde for over twenty years. MY splattered notes say "Jane Butel 1979" and I know she produced some books on BBQ and other southwestern cooking but from which the following arose I have no idea.
Pork with Chile Verde

2 pounds boneless pork, cut in 1” cubes
3 T. flour
2 T. lard or bacon drippings
1 large onion, chopped
2 garlic cloves, minced
Water
1 tsp. salt
Freshly ground black pepper
½ tsp. ground Mexican oregano
¼ tsp. ground cumin
3 large ripe tomatoes, peeled and chopped
20 fresh green chiles, roasted, peeled, and chopped

1. Sprinkle pork cubes with flour. Heat lard in a large, heavy skillet and brown pork. Remove to a plate.
2. Sauté onion and garlic in the same pan until the onion is soft. Return meat to the pan.
3. Add water to just barely cover the meat. Add salt, pepper, Mexican oregano, and cumin. Cover and simmer for one hour.
4. Add the tomatoes and green chiles; simmer 30 minutes or longer, adding a little more water if necessary, until flavors are well blended.

Notes: I’ve used two 7-oz. cans of chopped green chiles, drained when I’ve been too busy (or too lazy!) to deal with fresh chiles.

[alycemoy]

has anyone ever had green chilli................

i lived in northeast CO for a while, and it was a staple there..........

in most small towns you could get anything on a menu "smothered".....

usually it was cubed pork steak with all the bling one would put in chilli, but everything was green, instead of red......

a few crushed red tomatoes at the very end.........

it was pretty damn good.  i've never seen it anywhere else........

I have used this recipe for chile verde for over twenty years. MY splattered notes say "Jane Butel 1979" and I know she produced some books on BBQ and other southwestern cooking but from which the following arose I have no idea.
Pork with Chile Verde

2 pounds boneless pork, cut in 1” cubes
3 T. flour
2 T. lard or bacon drippings
1 large onion, chopped
2 garlic cloves, minced
Water
1 tsp. salt
Freshly ground black pepper
½ tsp. ground Mexican oregano
¼ tsp. ground cumin
3 large ripe tomatoes, peeled and chopped
20 fresh green chiles, roasted, peeled, and chopped

1. Sprinkle pork cubes with flour. Heat lard in a large, heavy skillet and brown pork. Remove to a plate.
2. Sauté onion and garlic in the same pan until the onion is soft. Return meat to the pan.
3. Add water to just barely cover the meat. Add salt, pepper, Mexican oregano, and cumin. Cover and simmer for one hour.
4. Add the tomatoes and green chiles; simmer 30 minutes or longer, adding a little more water if necessary, until flavors are well blended.

Notes: I’ve used two 7-oz. cans of chopped green chiles, drained when I’ve been too busy (or too lazy!) to deal with fresh chiles.

Sounds very promising! I'll probably try it this weekend! Thanks much!

[mizducky]

What I've found is that cubed meat braised for a good long time reaches that point where it's both succulent and shredding into chunky strands that are more like well-pounded meat than meat that's been ground into small bits. I don't know why it is (McGee handy for anyone?), but ground beef never seems to get to that stage.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Or am I spinning in some strange, red universe in my mind?

I suspect that with ground meat, the act of grinding has already fragmented the muscle fibers into such miniscule lengths that they no longer show up in the food's mouth-feel as fibers at all. Whereas with cubed meat, even with the small-size cubes some have mentioned, the fibers have been segmented but the fibrous structure is still basically intact within each cube. I further theorize that the meat fibers in chili made from larger cubes of meat would be more noticeable than those from small cubes, simply because of the relative fiber lengths in the two sizes of cubes.

I vaguely recall seeing some chili recipes that specify both ground and cubed meat. I theorize that this would give a really nice combination of the thick sauce-texture of an all-ground-meat chili and the shredded/pulled meat texture of the cubed-meat chili.

I confess to preferring pork to beef in general (oy, what a nice Jewish girl I turned out to be, huh? ), so it pleases me that so many New Mexico chile verde recipes I've seen on the net specify pork.

Oh---how about spices in addition to the chiles? Cumin is pretty common; allspice seems to be one of the flavor secrets in Cincinnati-style; I've also been known to sneak a little cinnamon in there for its natural "sweetness."

As to beans: I fear that kidney beans are not my favorite beans by a long shot--I just find them too big, bland and pasty. Pintos are a bit better to me--somehow, their smaller size makes them register as a little less pasty in my mouth. The pulses I really like are black beans, lentils, and garbanzos. I know the latter two are definitely not traditional chili-makings, but I wonder how they'd work out. Using lentils might result in a chili-flavored dal! And we saw garbanzos, I think, way up at the top of this thread in an Algerian chili-like bean stew.

How about other beans folks have used, or thought about using? I'm especially wondering about beans like black-eyed peas (they have a fresh vegetal flavor even when cooked from dried beans that I really dig); and azduki beans (their natural sweetness and digestability might be an great asset in chili-making).

[TongoRad]

You really hit the nail on the head with regards to kidney beans, but I think that character is why they are traditionally used: they don't have an assertive flavor at all, so they don't compete with the chili, and they hold their shape very well. Pinto beans have a much better flavor but can break down easier. I find that pink beans are somewhere in between so that's always on hand as my 'all purpose' bean. There is plenty of room for experimentation, as far as I'm concerned. I would probably stop shy of using the lentils myself, though. I will say that I have added black beans, and corn for that matter, to chile verde and the chile gods didn't strike me down.

As to the seasonings, cumin and oregano are all you really need, but a bay leaf is also nice to add. Cocoa is also pretty common.

[Daniel]

Markin,

Awesome recipe.. Thanks so much for posting it..

I followed the recipe besides adding a little more cumin and some corn flour to thicken.. I roasted 20 poblano peppers, added 2 pounds of cubed pork tenderloin and covered with liquid that was soaking the peppers... It was great..

Garnished with shallots,cilantro, cheese, and creme fraiche..



I like this better then last nights chili,, Spicy, great fresh flavors, the pork was perfect..

Edited by Daniel, 26 October 2005 - 06:07 PM.

[Chris Amirault]

How long did you cook the tenderloin, Daniel?

[snowangel]

How long did you cook the tenderloin, Daniel?

I'd be most tempted to use bone in country-style ribs (boned, cubed, but bones added to chili to be fished out later) or a nice butt than tenderloin. But, what do I know?

[Chris Amirault]

How long did you cook the tenderloin, Daniel?

I'd be most tempted to use bone in country-style ribs (boned, cubed, but bones added to chili to be fished out later) or a nice butt than tenderloin. But, what do I know?

Yeah, that's why I asked. If it was a pretty quick chili, then I think tenderloin might work ok. But butt or shoulder if it's going to cook for a while.

[Daniel]

I cooked the tenderloin for 40 minutes.. Then added the peppers for another 30 minutes.. I made it after work.. Started at 6 was eating by 730.. The meat was really tender.. And I used a loin of pork not tenderloin sorry....

Edited by Daniel, 26 October 2005 - 07:08 PM.

[bloviatrix]

I made my first pot of chili for the season about 2 weeks ago. The weather had just changed, and it was so satisfying. I don't have any formal recipe for my version....

Cook 1 pound of black beans according to Russ Parson's method and add to water a smashed clove of garlic and sometimes one or two chipotles

Brown 1 pound of ground beef and set aside. Sweat diced onions, green peppers and garlic until soft. Add chile powder, cumin, and either ancho powder or pasilla powder (or a mix of the two), and sometimes pureed chipotle in adobo. Return meat to pan. Add cooked beans and diced tomatoes. Simmer away.

We have quart left in the freezer that we'll probably pull out over the weekend. We tend to eat it over rice. But I want to try some of the recipes referred to here.

[fifi]

. . . . .
Cook 1 pound of black beans according to Russ Parson's method and add to water a smashed clove of garlic and sometimes one or two chipotles

Brown 1 pound of ground beef and set aside.  Sweat diced onions, green peppers and garlic until soft.  Add chile powder, cumin, and either ancho powder or pasilla powder (or a mix of the two), and sometimes pureed chipotle in adobo.  Return meat to pan. Add cooked beans and diced tomatoes.  Simmer away.
. . . . .

It sounds like you have this chili thing down to a fine science.

Someone above mentioned mixing cubed and ground beef. My dad experimented with that using the basic Pedernales River recipe. He was able to blend the best of both worlds. Then he started sneaking in some of the ground turkey in his endless quest to find a use for it. That worked pretty well, too actually.

I have been a long term fan of Chile Pepper Magazine. If you go back and look at some of the chili cook-off award winners, they seem to have a common element of adding beef bullion as cubes or other sorts. I have to admit that I have never tried it but I do find the commonality curious.

[bloviatrix]

. . . . .
Cook 1 pound of black beans according to Russ Parson's method and add to water a smashed clove of garlic and sometimes one or two chipotles

Brown 1 pound of ground beef and set aside.  Sweat diced onions, green peppers and garlic until soft.  Add chile powder, cumin, and either ancho powder or pasilla powder (or a mix of the two), and sometimes pureed chipotle in adobo.  Return meat to pan. Add cooked beans and diced tomatoes.  Simmer away.
. . . . .

It sounds like you have this chili thing down to a fine science.

From October through April there is always chili to be found in the house. It's really one of those perfect foods.

[TongoRad]

fifi:

I have been a long term fan of Chile Pepper Magazine. If you go back and look at some of the chili cook-off award winners, they seem to have a common element of adding beef bullion as cubes or other sorts. I have to admit that I have never tried it but I do find the commonality curious.

I think this goes to the old eatin' chili vs. competin' chili thing. Perhaps somebody with more recent experience on the competition circuit can verify this but it used to be that competition chili generally has more of a concentrated flavor punch and is a lot saltier that you would normally make it for yourself because you have a very limited window of opportunity to impress the judges. In that context the addition of boullion cubes seems to make sense, to me at least.

[Daniel]

Is this a chili cook-off our a chili talk off ... Lets see a little less talkie and a little more makie over here..

Edited by Daniel, 27 October 2005 - 06:18 AM.

[TongoRad]

Is this a chili cook-off our a chili talk off ... Lets see a little less talkie and a little more makie over here..

Daniel-
you must know that about 1/3 of the fun of chili is in talking about it. Another 1/3 comes from the eventual fisticuffs, and the remaining 1/3 comes from the actual eating of it.

I must say, though, that I find your zeal to be infectious ( I mean that sincerely) and will be making something this weekend and will try to borrow a digital camera to document whatever it turns out to be.

Edited by TongoRad, 27 October 2005 - 07:30 AM.

[Daniel]

I was totaly kidding, Chili really is one of those social things.. The great thing about chili is how easy it seems with the few ingredients used, but the combinations are limitedless.. Give two people the same ingredients and you will get two different tasting recipes..

And I would like to add another 1/3 of making chili.. So we will actually call it a 1/4.. The trash talking aspect

[helenjp]

Oh, I made ours! I used pretty much the "Work in Progress" recipe, using beef and some lean pork spare rib chunks (or what passes for that in Japan).

I made the chili beans separately.

It was an interesting experiment. I thought I had far too much chili for our boys, but making it with much more meat and much less onion and tomato worked well - the chili heat just gets sucked up by the meat, it seems.

I used a Shuttle Chef pot overnight, then reheated and set it in the container again all day. The meat was melting tender, and the sauce colored up deep red despite the smaller amount of tomato.

[mizducky]

Doing some more poking around the net, I found two very intriguing chili recipes using lamb:

New Mexico Chili with Lamb

Zuni Green Chile Stew

Hitting the supermarket later in the day, I stumbled upon some lamb neck bones for a ridiculously cheap price. So I think there's some kind of lamb chili concoction in my near future.

[Chris Amirault]

Ellen, those look great! Juniper berries in that Zuni stew -- that's a surprise! Which do you think you'll make? The second one almost seems more like a pozole than a chili. Whatever that means...!