222 replies to this topic

[wkl]

That's a pretty broad brush you are using after speaking with only one girl.

I also imagine that conversation could have happened with many a guy ona college campus.

[Milagai]

if women can't cook, who cares?
let the men take over.
less work for us.
it can be our turn to sit back and make demands.

milagai

[*Deborah*]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to  The multitude of posters n this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

Oh, I see, you are the sort of person who would marry a "simpleton" and let her bear your four children but not drive your car or cook in your kitchen?

Very rational.

It's a matter of demonstrated ability. If my wife can outcook, outdrive, outanything me, more power to her. But if we are assuming Ramsay's belief that the average woman is not as good of a cook as her mother and grandmother, then I'm going to tell her to relax and not worry about it or, if she wants, work her ass off to learn from me of someone else better than her. I respect my food and the culinary arts and don't intend to eat Domino's and Applebee's Curbside Pick-Up.

You're the one who used the word simpleton...nice backpedal attempt, in any case.

[BryanZ]

if women can't cook, who cares?
let the men take over.
less work for us.
it can be our turn to sit back and make demands.

milagai

I echo these sentiments. It doesn't bother me that women are cooking less much more than it bothers me the average guy can't cook at all.

And to those who believe that I am using a "broad brush", I admittedly am. I was simply citing one example of many in which people (both men and women, mainly young though) express complete bafflement at my obsession with food. Generally, conversations in this same vein include me talking to the frat boy who eat dried ramen and washes it down with beer or the average girl who, in my experience, truly has no experience with cooking food. I am not exaggerating when people say "I can make toast," or "I can boil pasta," or "I love Kraft Easy Mac," or "I can make grilled cheese on my George Foreman Grill."

The only reason that Ramsay's (and my) statement could have been construed as inflammatory is because they generally focus on women. For me, the disgusting thing is women who cook becacuse their boyfriends expect to be served. And, more broadly, that America and Europe are losing out on their culinary traditions because of the movement toward fast/convenience food.

Trust me, there is NOTHING more attractive than a woman who can cook and who owns the kitchen. She cooks because she can and loves the sensuality of food, not because she thinks she has to subscribe to traditional gender roles But, unfotunately, women like this at my age are, in my experience, completely absent. eGullet is an exception but, even so, I don't know of any truly active college-aged female posters.

To each woman (or man) her own. Cook if you like, or don't. But I think that women who choose not to are missing out a big and rewarding part of life.


Edited to add: I did not use simpleton to imply that women are simpletons. But personally I wouldn't want some putz (man, woman or otherwise) using anything that I highly value without close supervision.

Edited by BryanZ, 26 October 2005 - 12:25 PM.

[Laksa]

You know, I wonder how many young women of an earlier generation were experts in the kitchen pre-matrimony, and how many actually learnt to cook after getting married?

Edited to remove point already made.

Edited by Laksa, 26 October 2005 - 12:37 PM.

[BryanZ]

You know, I wonder how many young women of an earlier generation were experts in the kitchen pre-matrimony, and how many actually learnt to cook after getting married?

Probably not many, but raising a family necessitated that many women learn. Additionally, they probably had more experience in the kitchen, simply learning from their mothers.

There seems to be a major disconnect now, with big time push in convenience food that actually tastes [cringe] not [cringe] that bad. To me this seems counterintuitive since now one is able to procure better ingredients that were previously completely foreign only 10 years ago, but that is neither here nor there.


edit: I'm so enthralled with this discussion that my typing accuracy has rapidly degraded; sorry for all the edits, they're superficial typing changes.

Edited by BryanZ, 26 October 2005 - 12:44 PM.

[Laksa]

I've been told by relatives that my mum was taught most of what she knows by her mother-in-law, but that's probably something unique to certain cultures, and it's a rarer occurrence today even in our culture.

[Rinsewind]

I have no scientific discoveries to back this one up, but here goes. I am a college professor. I spend a lot of time dealing with young adults. When I compare the basic life skills I had as an 18 year old compared with this group, I am often surprised. I left home with basic cooking skills-- and my mom hated to cook. I also knew how to do laundry, vacuum, dust, balance a checkbook, take out garbage, change a tire, mow the lawn, and so forth. I'm not saying I was perfect at any of these, but I had some basics, as did most of my friends, both male and female.

Many of my students don't have these skills. Why not? I can think of a number of reasons which may be a factor. First, children now spend WAY more scheduled time outside of school-- sports, playdates, all kinds of things. They often have relatively few responsibilities doing "chores"--which is how we learn many of those basic life skills. Second, you've heard of parents who seem to run all aspects of their kids lives, that's not everyone, but Lord knows I have plenty of students whose PARENTS call me when their kids get bad marks. In COLLEGE. Most of the parents I know with teenagers do nearly everything for them so they will "succeed"-- which ultimately handicaps them. Third, fewer people do much home cooking, so there's fewer opportunities for both young men and young women to see it in the first place.

I don't know if there's a difference between young men and young women in this-- but I have been told by male students that learning to cook really impresses the women, so they learn to do it. For young women, why should they learn a skill which they feel ties them to the traditional life in the home, when they are in school to learn a career? Finally, as someone mentioned above, I think there IS something to the fact that men, who are not thought of as home cooks, get accolades when they do cook (or take care of kids, clean the house, or take on other domestic responsibilities), when women seldom receive accolades for the same work. They are only noted when they don't do domestic work. There's something to be said for perception instead of actual facts.

BTW, as a (female) college professor who mostly socializes with other two career professional couples, pretty much no one cooks, even if they are able. There's a lot of take-out going on. I love to cook, but will confess that once or twice a week, when the kids need to be fed and both my husband and I do not get home until close to dinner time after picking up the kids, we get take-out or make something that involves a prepackaged item. Not proud of it, but that's just the way it goes.

[BryanZ]

Thank you, Rinsewind. I concur with most of your observations from my own personal experiences.

[Tess]

And why is it sadder if a woman can't cook than if a man can't?  The simple fact that we're all waiting longer to get married these days means that, male or female, it's going to mean a lot more Lean Cuisines and take-out if we sit around and wait to get together with someone who cooks better than we do.  Sad for all genders, at least those who have to eat.

The conversation you had would be just as sad had it been with a man, yes?  And, in my experience, just as likely.

Exactly.

Hey, some people don't like to cook. And as weird as it seems in this day and age, the article and some of the posts here demonstrate that in some circles women are still *expected* to cook and men are not. Until those expectations become equal, I think women who refuse to get interested in cooking may be exercising some healthy self-preservation.

[Megan Blocker]

[And as weird as it seems in this day and age, the article and some of the posts here demonstrate that in some circles women are still *expected* to cook and men are not. Until those expectations become equal, I think women who refuse to get interested in cooking may be exercising some healthy self-preservation.

A culinary version of bra-burning?

I agree, in some ways. Since I don't see cooking as a form of female oppression (maybe because both of my parents cooked or because so many of my male friends do), it's not offensive to me to engage in or enjoy it.

If you do see it as a a symbol of sexism, then, by all means, reject it on principle. It's your call. I'm not the one who'll be stuck with the Hungry Man dinners.

[*Deborah*]

I think there's a big difference between not choosing to cook every single day and night, and not being able to cook. To state that women can't cook is patently ridiculous.

[ludja]

And why is it sadder if a woman can't cook than if a man can't?  The simple fact that we're all waiting longer to get married these days means that, male or female, it's going to mean a lot more Lean Cuisines and take-out if we sit around and wait to get together with someone who cooks better than we do.  Sad for all genders, at least those who have to eat.

The conversation you had would be just as sad had it been with a man, yes?  And, in my experience, just as likely.

Exactly.

Hey, some people don't like to cook. And as weird as it seems in this day and age, the article and some of the posts here demonstrate that in some circles women are still *expected* to cook and men are not. Until those expectations become equal, I think women who refuse to get interested in cooking may be exercising some healthy self-preservation.

The interesting part comes up when you have kids. If you're a single or divorced parent with custody of a child, then whether or not you *like* to cook, hopefully one will decide to do so for ones children and in a reasonably healthy fashion. If one has a two parent family, then it is a question of working it out between the two parents regarding various issues including who 'likes' to cook or the relative demands of respective jobs, or splitting the work in some agreed upon fashion. I guess this all assumes that one feels that cooking good meals for ones kids is necessary rather than optional!

Regarding another point above regarding how one may learn to cook. In our family's case neither I nor my sister cooked to any extent growing up. (My mom's kitchen is her domain). We watched a lot though, helped out sometime and just grew up eating almost all home cooked food. It was an easy step for both of us to start cooking once we were on our own, equipped with a basic cookbook or two and with a sprinkling of phone call advice here and there. My mom is an excellent cook and her experience was similar; she taught herself how to cook when she left home, which in her case was pretty close to when she got married. (She didn't have her mom to call either, who was at that time, a very expensive phone call away in Europe).

Edited by ludja, 26 October 2005 - 01:41 PM.

[Jaymes]

I'm 20 years old.  I'm no doubt one of the younger on this board.  I do not know a SINGLE woman my age (or within 5 years) who can cook a simple meal from scratch. 

When I was 20, I couldn't cook either. Nor did I need to, frankly.

But then, at 24, I got married. We entertained a lot, and went to the homes of our friends. Often we were asked to "bring something." An appetizer, vegetable, soup, whatever. And then along came the babies. Three of them.

I figured out that cooking was going to be a part of my life, like it or not. So decided that I might just as well get good at it.

And now, some 40 years later, I am.

I think it may be a bit too early to judge your friends.

Edited by Jaymes, 26 October 2005 - 01:36 PM.

[ludja]

I'm 20 years old.  I'm no doubt one of the younger on this board.  I do not know a SINGLE woman my age (or within 5 years) who can cook a simple meal from scratch.  

When I was 20, I couldn't cook either. Nor did I need to, frankly.

But then, at 24, I got married. We entertained a lot, and went to the homes of our friends. Often we were asked to "bring something." An appetizer, vegetable, soup, whatever. And then along came the babies. Three of them.

I figured out that cooking was going to be a part of my life, like it or not. So decided that I might just as well get good at it.

And now, some 40 years later, I am.

I think it may be a bit too early to judge your friends.

Great point, Jaymes. As mentioned above, I didn't really start to cook until I had my own place after college.

[BryanZ]

I see two trends being discussed here.

1) The difference between women choosing to cook and being able to cook.
As far as choosing to cook goes, that is each individual's perogative. It cannot be denied, however, that fewer young women today are cooking than in previous generations. Some may see that as a good thing, others may see it as bad. I side with Ramsay on this issue not because I'm sexist and believe in traditional gender roles, but because I think many women are missing out on the joys of cooking and are losing touch with culinary traditions.

2) The other issue is when and why women started cooking.
It seems that the general trend amongst posters here is after college, either by marriage or living in one's own place. While this seems to be the tradition, I, as a young poster on eGullet and in the food world, hope to see this change. I hope that both young men and women get involved in food at a younger age. This is much easier now than it was before because of the globalization of food, but I can count on one hand the number of my peers who I personally know that are interested and involved in food. This is disappointing aspect seems to be what Ramsay was highlighting, only he focused the lack of involvement on young women.

[annanstee]

  I don't know of any truly active college-aged female posters.

Ling! Where are you?


I didn't learn how to cook until I left home- and neither did my mother. Why? we were busy doing things that seemed less chore-like at the time.
I love to cook, although sometimes I get sick of the day in day out aspect of it.
When I was young and single, I would pore through recipe books, wine in hand...
saunter down to Granville Island and pick up the ingredients- spend four hours it meditation that is meal assembly.
Cut to today- I don't get home till six thirty, have a young family to look after and I still cook from scratch most nights, but really, it's not quite as fun.
I cook because I like to, and because I feel that grown ups should be able to feed themselves.. but if I didn't feel this way, I would sure as hell resent somebody telling me that I should.
I just find this article inflammatory, and the comments about his wife disgusting.

Edited by annanstee, 26 October 2005 - 04:59 PM.

[Pam R]

When I was in college I cooked and so did my friends. In fact I remember some of my friends cooking when I was in high-school.

But some of my best memories from my university days involved dinner parties my roommate and I had. A group of friends (mostly female, but a few males) would come over and we'd all cook together. Yes some people had more skills than others, but everybody pulled their own weight.

I'm well past my university days but my friends are still cooking. Sure we go out for a lot of meals, but they all have cooking abilities. I can think of only a couple of people I know who can't cook.

[munchymom]

I participate in a local "mommies" website, and there was recently a thread there about not being able to cook. Tons of women posted about how they couldn't get near the stove without burning something, one said that she was afraid to try boiling an ear of corn(!), lots of people said they rely on prepared stuff from Costco. So the sentiment is definitely out there. When I was in college, I subsisted on Ramen, Taco Bell, beer and cigarettes. I didn't start cooking much until I moved in with my husband, when I was 24. Now I love to cook, but he's a vegetarian and we eat only vegetarian food at home, so there are huge yawning gaps in my cooking knowledge. I can boil an ear of corn, but ask me to make a pot roast and I'd be running for the cookbooks for sure.

[loiosh]

Consulting my library to add some historical perspective to this debate, I've come across two volumes which may shed some light on the (fairly recent) past. Both are copyright 1965. Saucepans and the Single Girl, an American book, touts itself as "the cookbook with all the ingredients for that light-hearted leap from filing cabinet to flambe!" The book is aimed at single, working girls who want to feed themselves in addition to wooing a man. Recipes include a burger with banana topping, and English muffin pizzas. Different types of man, of course, require different food, but most of it can be bashed together from tins and a few fresh ingredients (remember, too, that the variety of produce available fresh to us forty years on is much greater). The book is, well, kind of sexist, despite being penned by two women, though it's meant to be humourous.

The other volume, Cooking for Brides, is a shade more ambitious. The book largely sticks to classic French/'continental' dishes. Plenty of explanation is given with regard to techniques for sauces, mayonnaise, etc. There are numerous cartoon illustrations which remind one of men's magazines of the era. The book's tone is conversational, but rather than expressing himself as a confidante in the kitchen (like, say, Julia, or the Rombauers), he comes off as quite authoritarian, snobbish, and pedantic, and pauses between giving orders to relate the details of overseas trips that most likely would have been extravagantly out of reach for the majority of Australians. And, to paraphrase slightly, anyone who cooks with dripping is a terrible cook (which many brides' mothers would have done). Technically, it's a much better book than Saucepans, and it's certainly more ambitious. A woman I worked for a while back said that men in our workplace tended to speak to women as if they were slow children, and that is what this book reminds me of.

I have a few earlier books in my collection. Many, like the Country Women's Assoc. ones, are vague in the details of the recipe -- you are expected to know some basics prior to using the book. Does this mean that women prior to 1965 were all wonderful cooks? Not in my mind. It was a job they had to do. Some had the skills and were able to use the recipes from these books well, others didn't and ended up with library paste. Some of the latter women learnt from their mistakes; others did not. One can learn to cook well, but many people simply are uninclined to do so out of lack of interest.

The point is that many young women don't know how to cook, but that this is quite old news. Jokes about "brides' biscuits" have been going around for ages. Mr Ramsey is wrapping yesterday's fish in today's paper by acting as if "women can't cook" is a new thing. As stated many, many times previously in this thread, he is singling out women to gain publicity by acting the role of the un-PC 'bad boy chef'. Casual, "humourous" sexism, which the aforementioned books provide ample evidence of, is old as the hills. Picking on women is still 'safe' -- imagine if he'd said "[nationality] can't cook". He'd be tarred and feathered.

ps - Today's women can't really mix a cocktail either, Gordo. Been to a party recently? I'll gag if I'm offered one more "c**ks*****g cowboy" -- both because of the awful, homophobic name, and because sweet, cloying, creamy drinks make me barf.

[anzu]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

Perhaps slightly off topic (?) but BryanZ, I hope if/when you get married and have children you will reconsider this view, and think about the message it will be sending to your wife and kids.

Nothing done by my mother or my siblings has ever been good enough for my father. As a couple of examples, my father has never let my mother drive *his* car (incidentally, *his* car was always bought new, the one used by my mother and for ferrying around me and my brothers when we were young was second-hand and quite old), none of us kids or my mother was *ever* allowed to put a record onto his record player (this continued even into adulthood) as the likelihood was too high that we would damage his precious record, etc. etc. etc.

Now, I have reached adulthood (and then some ), there are still certain things I still don't do that are almost certainly due to this attitude - something as basic as driving is one of them. Yeah, I have a PhD, but I am intimidated by the thought of driving a car because I wouldn't be 'good enough'.

I am SO grateful that my father played almost no role in the kitchen when I was growing up. If he had, I suspect my cooking skills and interest in food would probably have been stifled before they even began.

Encouragement, not criticism or exclusion or banning to 'second-best option' is the way to go. If you are worried about a family member causing chaos in your kitchen, you should work together with them in it, and be supportive.

Makes me wonder if Ramsay's children will learn to cook, or whether they will be intimidated out of the kitchen before they even start.

[Corinna Dunne]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

I can't stop laughing. Talk about giving this thread a shot in the arm!!! Ever considered a career in TV?

[Ling]

  I don't know of any truly active college-aged female posters.

Ling! Where are you?

Here I am...didn't see this thread until now.

I'm a college-aged woman and I love cooking! I am actually one of the earlier active members in the Vancouver forum. I've been baking from scratch since I was in grade 6, and I haven't looked back since. I bake almost everyday. One of the items I'm putting together this week is a 4 layer chocolate cake, with each layer made from a different premium cocoa (I am running a taste-test to see how they stack up against one another.) The cake will contain an Italian caramel buttercream, and be enrobed in Pierre Herme's caramel chocolate ganache.

I love perusing the gourmet markets for different chocolates, Granville Island, Les Amis for cheeses, and going to different bakeries for breads. Quality ingredients are very important to me, so I buy the very best that I can afford.

My friends love that I can cook, because I feed them all the time. Sadly, I don't know anyone else my age who cooks, or loves food half as much as I do (one of the reasons why I spend so much time on Egullet), but my friends are slowly learning. They can tell the difference between a baked good made from a quality chocolate like Valrhona, and a decent chocolate like Baker's now.

My friends who have moved out are living on Subway, McDonald's and instant noodles. They are always asking me how to do the simplest things, like how to boil an egg. I don't dismiss them as being inferior in any way, merely because they don't have the same cooking skills that I do, or even chide them for eating McCain's frozen pizza (and enjoying it), because I understand that food is less important to them. However, it is a bit disheartening when I see many people my age unable to appreciate the joy that making a meal--from sourcing the best ingredients, to cooking, to plating the dish artistically--can bring to the cook. Nothing makes me happier than seeing the revelation on someone's face when they taste a quality version of a dish they've had for the first time.

There are a lot of factors why I think many of the people my age don't cook, and can't cook. A very common reason, unfortunately, is laziness. Food is cheap in Vancouver, and there isn't much motivation to learn how to cook when you can get something decent for $6. Also, many of my friends don't know where to start--they were not taught how to cook when they were younger, and aren't interested in reading cookbooks or even watching FoodTV (I know, I know...but everyone has to start somewhere!) And lastly, they are all busy people...there's school, work, friends, bfs and gfs, the gym, sports...the list goes on. Learning to cook isn't a priority because they know they can get run to McDonald's if they're hungry, and since eating is often just to fill a void, it doesn't matter what is going in their stomach (and this is true for both guys and girls).

I don't think agree with Ramsey's views as they seem to pertain solely to women, and are therefore sexist. Perhaps it is debatable whether the direct quote (which is used loosely in the title of the article) is sexist, but certainly his general tone comes across as being quite offensive to me.

Edited by Ling, 27 October 2005 - 11:33 AM.

[Carrot Top]

The cant of "celebrity" is uninteresting.

It has nothing to do with a whole lot of what is real *except* for utilizing the ability to strike a pose that many people (who are defined as "other-directed" by some social psycologists) will find more interesting than their own rather wonderful and interesting selves (if they would only look inward rather than to the television for answers).

The cant of "celebrity" then choosing to define itself as social critic is no more than utter nonsense. It just takes the "other-focused" general public one step further into the realm of a world where ideas and beliefs are created based on. . .? A credible source? A knowledgeable source? Or is it a source that created itself for its own reasons - to feed its own huge ego.

The cant of "celebrity" that has set itself up as social critic that *then* continues down this path of merry plunder upon others in a way that separates out *one* group for attention (because in choosing this group the largest amount of attention will again be mirrored back at the "celebrity") is hugely offensive. It smacks of a hubris that we are only too accustomed to eating. And it makes me gag.

Edited by Carrot Top, 27 October 2005 - 02:21 PM.

[scordelia]

I totally agree with Gordon Ramsay (in fact, I've been saying this for awhile).

I'm 20 years old.  I'm no doubt one of the younger on this board.  I do not know a SINGLE woman my age (or within 5 years) who can cook a simple meal from scratch.  Most can't even prepare Kraft dinner without some sort of catastrophe.  I've never dated a woman who could cook, nor have any of my friends.  I do however know quite a few men my age who can cook (mostly due to spending time in the food industry during teenage years).  I will not say anything like women aren't capable of cooking (since my grandma was an amazing cook, my mom pretty decent), but this generation of women CANNOT COOK.  I would love to date a girl who could prepare an edible meal from scratch, but it seems I'm out of luck. 

I am a 37 year old woman and I love to cook (and I am a damn good one). Starting at 16, I worked in the food industry and continued for the next ten years until I finished my grad degrees. Growing up, my home was a little unusual because both my mother and father loved to cook, and they taught my brother and me to cook from an early age. My first "complex" dish was risotto which I learned how to make at the age of nine. My father taught me this dish which he learned how to prepare while he lived in Italy. My maternal grandmother was also a wonderful cook. She is Irish and has lots of Irish specialties, but her stepmother was Danish, so quite a few Scandanavian recipes have become family "traditions."

But I am an unusual among my friends. Most of them cannot cook. When they entertain, it is at a restaurant or just cocktails or a piece of poorly roasted meat with ready-made sides. While Mikeb19 has never dated a woman who can cook, I was the first woman my husband dated who could (hmm, maybe that's why he married me). Actually, among my acquaintances, I can only think of half a dozen women my age who can cobble together a decent meal from scratch.

This begs the question--could the previous generation really cook well? I think the previous generations cooked because they had to. There was not a wide selection of ready meals available. I do remember from my childhood that while all of my friends' mothers did cook, most of them did not cook well and treated cooking like a chore. Most of my childhood friends whose mothers were lousy cooks do not cook today.

[Rebel Rose]

Makes me wonder if Ramsay's children will learn to cook, or whether they will be intimidated out of the kitchen before they even start.

Now that would make a funny sitcom. Even funnier if he has a little girl with his attitude. And perhaps a vacuous neighbor with her own huge ego.

[BryanZ]

  I don't know of any truly active college-aged female posters.

Ling! Where are you?

Here I am...didn't see this thread until now.

I'm a college-aged woman and I love cooking! I am actually one of the earlier active members in the Vancouver forum. I've been baking from scratch since I was in grade 6, and I haven't looked back since. I bake almost everyday. One of the items I'm putting together this week is a 4 layer chocolate cake, with each layer made from a different premium cocoa (I am running a taste-test to see how they stack up against one another.) The cake will contain an Italian caramel buttercream, and be enrobed in Pierre Herme's caramel chocolate ganache.

I love perusing the gourmet markets for different chocolates, Granville Island, Les Amis for cheeses, and going to different bakeries for breads. Quality ingredients are very important to me, so I buy the very best that I can afford.

My friends love that I can cook, because I feed them all the time. Sadly, I don't know anyone else my age who cooks, or loves food half as much as I do (one of the reasons why I spend so much time on Egullet), but my friends are slowly learning. They can tell the difference between a baked good made from a quality chocolate like Valrhona, and a decent chocolate like Baker's now.

My friends who have moved out are living on Subway, McDonald's and instant noodles. They are always asking me how to do the simplest things, like how to boil an egg. I don't dismiss them as being inferior in any way, merely because they don't have the same cooking skills that I do, or even chide them for eating McCain's frozen pizza (and enjoying it), because I understand that food is less important to them. However, it is a bit disheartening when I see many people my age unable to appreciate the joy that making a meal--from sourcing the best ingredients, to cooking, to plating the dish artistically--can bring to the cook. Nothing makes me happier than seeing the revelation on someone's face when they taste a quality version of a dish they've had for the first time.

There are a lot of factors why I think many of the people my age don't cook, and can't cook. A very common reason, unfortunately, is laziness. Food is cheap in Vancouver, and there isn't much motivation to learn how to cook when you can get something decent for $6. Also, many of my friends don't know where to start--they were not taught how to cook when they were younger, and aren't interested in reading cookbooks or even watching FoodTV (I know, I know...but everyone has to start somewhere!) And lastly, they are all busy people...there's school, work, friends, bfs and gfs, the gym, sports...the list goes on. Learning to cook isn't a priority because they know they can get run to McDonald's if they're hungry, and since eating is often just to fill a void, it doesn't matter what is going in their stomach (and this is true for both guys and girls).

I don't think agree with Ramsey's views as they seem to pertain solely to women, and is therefore sexist. Perhaps it is debatable whether the direct quote (which is used loosely in the title of the article) is sexist, but certainly his general tone comes across as being quite offensive to me.

Ling, you should take a study away semester at Duke. We can cook together and educate the Subway and McDonalds eating masses. Seriously though, people like us are few and far in between. I think it says something that we hardly know anyone our age who has an notable interest in food.

There seems to be a general lack of interest and prevalence of laziness, but, as you mentioned, educating people is half the fun. I took a group of my friends to Jean Georges (a personal favorite of mine) in for lunch in NYC and cooked for them pretty extensively over Columbus Day Weekend, and they began to truly understand my passion. It's especially cool to see friends, girls especially, who previously had no interest in cooking suddenly come alive when confronted with good and challenging food.

If I may cite another anecdote (which, if you've been following this thread over the past couple pages, is what got me into this whole mess in the first place), I would like to recall the story of one of my closet friends from Miami. Up until our trip to Jean Georges, she had been accustomed to eating the traditional Cuban food of her housekeeper. She had never tried any kind of raw seafood, didn't even know what kind of seafood she liked (remarking that "my housekeeper knows, not me"), and was afraid to try many different types of ethnic food. At our extended luncheon, she tried, and enjoyed, raw hamachi and foie gras, two items that were well-entrenched in the "gross" category. I honestly believe that experiences like this are what motivate people to get into food. She plainly states that even in the short time she's known me, she has learned more about food than any other time in her life.

It is not my belief (nor is it Ramsay's) that women cannot cook by their nature; they simply choose not to and do not suffer for this decision because of the availability of convenience food and the breakdown of traditional gender roles. Outside of communities like eG, cooking still has an oppressive connotation associated with it, and for that reason young women are not motivated to become involved. Only through education, from a mother/grandmother/father/good friend who respects food, will the oppressive conotations of cooking be lessened.

[Carrot Top]

I daresay the young lady might have learned *something* from her Cuban housekeeper in all those years had she chosen to.

I *am* glad you decided to show her the light. With the help of Jean-George bien sur - collaborative effort. Divine.

You are truly a mensch.

*Mensch* is in the dictionary. At least it is in the one I own. It's a fairly decent edition. Not as pricey as my Maserati, so if you want to borrow it I won't mind.

............................................

Now can someone tell me the size of Gordie's shoes, please. I *really* need to know these things whenever I think of men.

[Milagai]

Also to the point:

Why do so many of these posts deplore that young *women* are missing
out by not learning to cook? the same should go for young men too...
or anyone of any age....

Somehow that goes unsaid, and the omission does leave
an impression of lack of even-handedness....

I think that's the missing element in this whole kerfuffle:
why single out women for not wanting to cook?
They want the free time that their male counterparts have
had for generations.....

That's why I say let all the men who are complaining about women
not cooking just step into the kitchen and begin feeding the family
and we want it healthy, from-scratch, and tasty, if you please.

For the other question of when people learn to cook, there is also
a socioeconomic class element involved....
Maybe not so common in the West these days, but in many other regions,
if you had household help (housekeeper, cook, whatever) you
never had to learn how to cook before or after marriage, moving out of
parents' house, whatever. Maybe only fancy party food to impress guests....

Milagai

[Tess]

It's especially cool to see friends, girls especially, who previously had no interest in cooking suddenly come alive when confronted with good and challenging food. 

If I may cite another anecdote (which, if you've been following this thread over the past couple pages, is what got me into this whole mess in the first place), I would like to recall the story of one of my closet friends from Miami. 

Bryan, what is it they say? When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.