222 replies to this topic

[Andy Lynes]

I see. Thankfully everybody loves Australians (even ones that are about to become British
. I will let you know if the quality of my cooking declines at this point).

DEFRA figures for the year ending 2003 (the latest available) show a 15-20% increase in the cooking ability of Australians awarded a British passport, although that was regionally adjusted down 7.3% for those living north of Watford.

[lesfen]

Interesting topic... lots of variables.

I'm a woman and I can cook. I have a full time job, a family, and a pretty active social life. I still cook. I love to cook. In my case it stems from my mother, and her mother before her. My mom worked full time (still does) and if you wanted any of her attention after work, you could find her in the kitchen... and hey, since you're here, make the salad for me. Hey, could you measure this for me or open that for me? She never made cooking seem like a chore and we all talked and caught up on the days news and activities while we were doing it. She got excited if she tried a new recipe or if the fat on the pork roast was really nice and crispy. We tasted and shared and we enjoyed it and I'm trying to pass that along to my daughter. My two-year-old loves to watch me cook. She drags her little chair up to my island, pulls herself up by the towel bar, and asks the usual toddler questions... "What's that?"... and I tell her what I'm doing and what ingredients I'm using. She can already identify 5 or 6 spices in the spice rack. I think she's gonna do just fine and hopefully she'll never look at cooking as a chore or something beneath her.

[Behemoth]

It wasn't a generalization about British food, it was a generalization about people who think each subsequent generation gets closer to hell in their handbasket than the previous one.

It was a cheap joke at the expense of the Brits, which is fine as my response was a cheap joke at the expense of the Yanks.

Nope. You are reading it as

does this mean he thinks the previous generation of British women could cook?

when the intended statement was

does this mean he thinks the previous generation of British women could cook?

I would have made the same joke about American women, had the article been about them. Jokes about British food are about as embarassingly hackneyed as the Benny Hill sketches they still seem to play on BBC America. You should give me a little more credit than that.

[Andy Lynes]

I don't see the difference but it really doesn't matter, honestly!

[*Deborah*]

I totally agree with Gordon Ramsay (in fact, I've been saying this for awhile).

I'm 20 years old.  I'm no doubt one of the younger on this board.  I do not know a SINGLE woman my age (or within 5 years) who can cook a simple meal from scratch.  Most can't even prepare Kraft dinner without some sort of catastrophe.  I've never dated a woman who could cook, nor have any of my friends.  I do however know quite a few men my age who can cook (mostly due to spending time in the food industry during teenage years).  I will not say anything like women aren't capable of cooking (since my grandma was an amazing cook, my mom pretty decent), but this generation of women CANNOT COOK.  I would love to date a girl who could prepare an edible meal from scratch, but it seems I'm out of luck. 

BTW, if anyone wants to knock my own cooking skills, I have been working in high end cuisine for a while (and not as a commis either).  Alot of 'foodies' seem to like to dismiss Gordon Ramsay because of his style (he says things the way he sees them, doesn't try to be nice to avoid wrecking fragile egos), but his credentials, restaurants speak for themselves.  BTW, if anyone thinks GR is mean, try working with high caliber french or italian chefs...

This was a well-stated post. Although I do not not explicitly work in food-service I must admit that the entire generation, with very few exceptions, of kids my age has absolutely no conception of good food or basic cooking. I am not saying that tradtional gender roles are or ever were a good thing, but it cannot be denied that the average 20 year-old girl working or going to school is near braindead when it comes to cooking. Ramsay is not denigrating the females who strive to reach the top of their profession, he is simply remarking on the complete lack of initiative taken by younger women to get into the kitchen and learn how to cook decent meals for themselves.

Ramsay's original statement was not sexist in and of itself; it was only portrayed that way in the headline. He simply notes that many young women today place greater emphasis on entertaining (i.e. mixing cocktails) and similar pursuits than learning how to cook for themselves.

Has the world turned topsy-turvy in the past 20 years?

1st year University, residence, food service not available on weekends. The boys were ordering pizza/Chinese, smearing peanut butter on bread, or eating out, the girls were cooking. Not cooking gourmet meals out of the little scungey galley kitchen, but familiar with the use of a stove, which is more than the vast majority of the boys of that time could say.

I will say that most of the young people I come across now know more about opening a frozen dinner than cooking a fresh one, but I don't find the girls any more ignorant than the boys. If nothing else, the girls can usually bake cookies.

[shelly59]

Ramsay is not denigrating the females who strive to reach the top of their profession, he is simply remarking on the complete lack of initiative taken by younger women to get into the kitchen and learn how to cook decent meals for themselves.

But why pick on the women? Why is it imperative that the WOMEN take the initiative and get into the kitchen"?

Its all so odd, to me anyway. Its as if he is implying that the fellas are all excellent cooks, like their mums before them, but the gals have just given up and are content to make the perfect martinis?

So, ok if I come over to the UK, I will find the guys in aprons, up to their elbows in Bangers and Mash, and the girls standing around mixing drinks.

Edited by shelly59, 25 October 2005 - 10:42 AM.

[Laksa]

  But why pick on the women?

I thought it's rather obvious. Cooking at home has traditionally been a woman's responsibility.

[shelly59]

  QUOTE(shelly59 @ Oct 25 2005, 01:27 PM)
  But why pick on the women?


I thought it's rather obvious. Cooking at home has traditionally been a woman's responsibility.

So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

[Carrot Top]

  QUOTE(shelly59 @ Oct 25 2005, 01:27 PM)
  But why pick on the women?


I thought it's rather obvious. Cooking at home has traditionally been a woman's responsibility.

So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

Yeah. He's sexist and using it to get attention for himself, too.

[Gifted Gourmet]

At least he lets her prepare the salads ...

Now Gordon Ramsay's wife is bidding for fame as the designer of a dish to rival the Caesar and Waldorf.  The Chelsea salad is London's answer to the world's most famous salads - both American concoctions.
Tana Ramsay hopes her creation, launched this week at the Brasserie restaurant in the Peter Jones department store,

[Andy Lynes]

Although the Telegraph article points out that the chef's comments "might come as a shock to Ramsay's wife, Tana, who cooks for their four young children in a separate kitchen at home", in fact, Ramsay has been deriding his wife's abilities in the kitchen for years. This from a Telegraph interview in May 2004:

"Tana is banished from his £500,000 kitchen in their Wandsworth home (she has a smaller, MFI version upstairs). Why is that, I ask? "Because she might ruin it! She might burn things. God knows what havoc she could wreak," he says, looking genuinely aghast.

"The next thing you know she would be coming up with recipes for Claridge's menu. It would read: 'Such and such, by Mrs Tana Ramsay.' No f------ way. I am the chef, this is my world. She is a school teacher."

Which hasn't stopped Tana Ramsay getting the job as glossy UK magazine Grazia's food editor.

[Gifted Gourmet]

"Tana is banished from his £500,000 kitchen in their Wandsworth home (she has a smaller, MFI version upstairs). Why is that, I ask? "Because she might ruin it! She might burn things. God knows what havoc she could wreak," he says, looking genuinely aghast.

four children, huh?

[Corinna Dunne]

I'm quite sure that this is a fact, all be it anecdotal:

"Seriously, there are huge numbers of young women out there who know how to mix cocktails but can't cook to save their lives, whereas men are finding their way into the kitchen in ever-growing numbers.  Trust me: I am only telling you what I've discovered."

What the article doesn't mention is that we're coming from a very low base when it comes to men's involvement in the kitchen, so yes, the numbers are growing. There's a surprise. I would be very interested to hear his observations on how men clean up after their cooking, or is this traditional task left to the cocktail swigging women?

But I'm not insulted at the tenor of the piece, because, yes, I sense that there's quite a bit of truth in it, if you take out the gender spin (which does lend more oomph to what is effectively an article very short on substance). Of course the article doesn't relate to a niche market like eG and friends, but if Gordon gets more people cooking and eating well, I'm all for it, and the more noise he makes about it, the more people he's going to reach.

The thing is, as mentioned upthread, home cooking seems to have become a bit of a competitive sport (hmmm... is there any correlation between that and the entry of more men to the kitchen?) and I think that many people who could once russle up an acceptable pasta dish, now feel like they can't really cook. I don't think the Atkins diet helped the image of the simple pasta supper either. And when someone like Delia does an easy basics TV series, she is rubbished for the instructive detail on how to boil an egg (by other chefs who should be more inclusive and get the idea).

So, maybe we should just accept a few home truths and try and make things better:
1. The traditional role of a mother teaching her children (mostly daughters) to cook has diminished, and tired career women are really trying to do their best, but there are not very many superwomen out there. Some of these tired career women do look down on stay at home 'domestic' mums, so Nigella does have a point.
2. Many busy families don't eat together any more.
3. There is less emphasis on cooking/home economics as a subject in schools (this is an assumption).
4. Society has become more affluent and people can afford to eat out more (money rich, time poor).

So what is required is some hook and recruitment mechanism. Jamie did a lot for school dinners, and Gordon, who has an even higher profile should be a major TV draw, and the shock media tactics are just all part of the deal. I'm a big Ramsay fan, I just hope he doesn't do a revisited series.

Edited by Corinna Dunne, 25 October 2005 - 10:57 AM.

[Carrot Top]

Your points are valid, Corinna - except that I can not believe that his shock tactics will either entice nor charm any woman into wanting to enter a home kitchen.

Edited by Carrot Top, 25 October 2005 - 10:58 AM.

[Corinna Dunne]

Your points are valid, Corinna - except that I can not believe that his shock tactics will either entice nor charm any woman into wanting to enter a home kitchen.

Hmmm... I'm not so sure. One woman's food is another woman's poison...

[Laksa]

  So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

Saying "men can't cook" would be just as sexist. But it won't get anywhere near as much attention.

The reason we get so riled up about Ramsey's statement is because we acknowledge that cooking has traditionally been done by women.

Edited by Laksa, 25 October 2005 - 11:05 AM.

[PopsicleToze]

  So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

Saying "men can't cook" is just as sexist. But it won't get anywhere near as much attention.

The reason we get so riled up about Ramsey's statement is because we acknowledge that cooking has traditionally been done by women.

I don't know. That's what we've been told, but I'm not so sure. The best (noted) chefs have traditionally been male. I cook to please and nurture people. I'm not sure if the "best" chefs were not taught by their mothers!!

It's very easy for me. If I want someone to feel better, I cook for them. If they already feel good, then that's a bonus. We get to share something very nice. I like that.

Rhonda

[Gifted Gourmet]

  So he IS being sexist. Just checking.

Saying "men can't cook" is just as sexist.

Anyone who says anything about one specific gender in these times is branding him/herself as ignorant.
To generalize is the mark of one's personal foolishness .. but it gets more PR for the Ramsay "image", no?
If he cooks so well, why bother with this meaningless argumentative stuff?

[shelora]

Although the Telegraph article points out that the chef's comments "might come as a shock to Ramsay's wife, Tana, who cooks for their four young children in a separate kitchen at home", in fact, Ramsay has been deriding his wife's abilities in the kitchen for years. This from a Telegraph interview in May 2004:

"Tana is banished from his £500,000 kitchen in their Wandsworth home (she has a smaller, MFI version upstairs). Why is that, I ask? "Because she might ruin it! She might burn things. God knows what havoc she could wreak," he says, looking genuinely aghast.

"The next thing you know she would be coming up with recipes for Claridge's menu. It would read: 'Such and such, by Mrs Tana Ramsay.' No f------ way. I am the chef, this is my world. She is a school teacher."

Wow. I'm impressed. Through and through, a real prick.

[Genny]

I'm not sure I have anything enlightening to add to this discussion, but I'll say this. I have a respect/hate opinion of GR. He is top of his game, abusive, caring, and a total prick. Polarizing is the word. I think that the article was just a bit of fluff to promote his new program. Is he sexist? Sure, why not, he's lots of other uncomplimentary things as well. Is the program going to be successful? Likely. But my guess is that as much of an ass as he comes off here, it is largely the reporter's slant, not a whole lot of this was quoted. Generalizations.

And, if he behaves with the participants in this program the way he has on his restaurant make-over show, the BBC program where he goes and cooks with an experienced home cook, or even as he was with Elsie from Hell's Kitchen, this could be an interesting program that shows his softer side.

So lets not get our collective panties in a bunch. Yes, overall women cook less than their mothers, grandmothers, etc. They don't have to cook now. Goodness knows my mom only did it because no one else would and we couldn't afford to eat out. Yes, it is likely that more men cook at home. It is more acceptable now. Gender roles have changed a lot in the last 30 years. Something to celebrate!

So cook if you want to. Don't if you don't. I don't care, as long as you keep out of my kitchen, 'cuz it's my domain!

[Carrot Top]

I could care less what he does or says. Just as long as he keeps that tongue out of any newspaper I have to look at.

[inny]

I could care less what he does or says. Just as long as he keeps that tongue out of any newspaper I have to look at.    

Someone should have really posted a warning with that link. It scared me... and I like Ramsay.

[R Washburn]

I always thought women excelled at cooking, but very few of them were good Chefs. Why wouldn't women be good cooks?

[Carrot Top]

I mean really.

I've already learned how to put my own gas in the car.

What more does Gordie want from me?

Tell him to go poach his own damn quenelles.

[BryanZ]

If I may add a little bit more this discussion in Ramsay's defense, let me recount an anecdote from yesterday evening. What follows is an exact transcript of a brief conversation between myself and an otherwise well-rounded, wealthy, and intelligent, Duke student who comes from a relatively large and traditional family.

19 year-old girl: Hey, what'd you have for dinner tonight?
Me: I just broiled a steak I picked up this weekend and ate that with some caramelized onions, aspragus, and spiced glazed carrots.
19 year-old girl: Wow, I had my leftover Domino's pizza and some leftover Chinese delivery. I wish I knew how to cook.
Me: I hate you.

Besides my revealing my inherent food snobbery, what does this conversation show? Mainly, it shows that the simple operations boiling and sauteeing vegetables and broiling a steak are outside of the realm of many a well-educated and intelligent young woman. If this is the trend among cultured and well-traveled young women (and men) in America and Europe, then I shudder to predict the cooking prowess of young women who grew up eating McDonalds and think that the epitome of Mexican food is Taco Bell. Perhaps I'm missing something, but Ramsay's statement was 100% accurate.

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him. Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar? I think not. I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break. He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to. The multitude of posters on this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

Edited to add: Of the few girls I know who say they can cook, most of them say they learned to do so for their boyfriends (or, even worse, because their boyfriends told them to learn). To me, giving into traditional gender roles is a hell of a lot more sexist and offensive.

Edited by BryanZ, 26 October 2005 - 11:47 AM.

[*Deborah*]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to  The multitude of posters n this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

Oh, I see, you are the sort of person who would marry a "simpleton" and let her bear your four children but not drive your car or cook in your kitchen?

Very rational.

[BryanZ]

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to  The multitude of posters n this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

Oh, I see, you are the sort of person who would marry a "simpleton" and let her bear your four children but not drive your car or cook in your kitchen?

Very rational.

It's a matter of demonstrated ability. If my wife can outcook, outdrive, outanything me, more power to her. But if we are assuming Ramsay's belief that the average woman is not as good of a cook as her mother and grandmother, then I'm going to tell her to relax and not worry about it or, if she wants, work her ass off to learn from me of someone else better than her. I respect my food and the culinary arts and don't intend to eat Domino's and Applebee's Curbside Pick-Up.

[Megan Blocker]

If I may add a little bit more this discussion in Ramsay's defense, let me recount an anecdote from yesterday evening.  What follows is an exact transcript of a brief conversation between myself and an otherwise well-rounded, wealthy, and intelligent, Duke student who comes from a relatively large and traditional family.

19 year-old girl: Hey, what'd you have for dinner tonight?
Me: I just broiled a steak I picked up this weekend and ate that with some caramelized onions, aspragus, and spiced glazed carrots.
19 year-old girl: Wow, I had my leftover Domino's pizza and some leftover Chinese delivery.  I wish I knew how to cook.
Me: I hate you.

Besides my revealing my inherent food snobbery, what does this conversation show?  Mainly, it shows that the simple operations boiling and sauteeing vegetables and broiling a steak are outside of the realm of many a well-educated and intelligent young woman.  If this is the trend among cultured and well-traveled young women (and men) in America and Europe, then I shudder to predict the cooking prowess of young women who grew up eating McDonalds and think that the epitome of Mexican food is Taco Bell.  Perhaps I'm missing something, but Ramsay's statement was 100% accurate. 

In reference to Ramsay's banning his wife from his 500,000 euro kitchen, I don't blame him.  Would you want some simpleton driving around your $650,000 supercar?  I think not.  I don't let anyone drive my car, I'm not going to give you free reign over my kitchen (and I assure you neither of those are even remotely close to 500,000 euros).

To the people who get in a hissyfit over Ramsay's supposedly inflamatory remarks, give me a break.  He's a guy who tells it like it is, and his standing in his industry gives him just about every right to.  The multitude of posters on this board, both men and women, who agree with him are evidence that rationality still exists in this world.

Edited to add: Of the few girls I know who say they can cook, most of them say they learned to do so for their boyfriends (or, even worse, because their boyfriends told them to learn).  To me, giving into traditional gender roles is a hell of a lot more sexist and offensive.

Who are these people? I really know no one in my circle (male or female) who just CAN'T cook. Plenty who don't, but none who can't. There's a big difference. Not sure which is worse, actually...

And why is it sadder if a woman can't cook than if a man can't? The simple fact that we're all waiting longer to get married these days means that, male or female, it's going to mean a lot more Lean Cuisines and take-out if we sit around and wait to get together with someone who cooks better than we do. Sad for all genders, at least those who have to eat.

The conversation you had would be just as sad had it been with a man, yes? And, in my experience, just as likely.

[Daniel]

I mean really.

I've already learned how to put my own gas in the car.

What more does Gordie want from me?

Tell him to go poach his own damn quenelles.

Mmmmm quenelles.. Might have to make some of those...

[Daniel]

If I may add a little bit more this discussion in Ramsay's defense, let me recount an anecdote from yesterday evening.  What follows is an exact transcript of a brief conversation between myself and an otherwise well-rounded, wealthy, and intelligent, Duke student who comes from a relatively large and traditional family.

19 year-old girl: Hey, what'd you have for dinner tonight?
Me: I just broiled a steak I picked up this weekend and ate that with some caramelized onions, aspragus, and spiced glazed carrots.
19 year-old girl: Wow, I had my leftover Domino's pizza and some leftover Chinese delivery.  I wish I knew how to cook.
Me: I hate you.

Besides my revealing my inherent food snobbery, what does this conversation show?  Mainly, it shows that the simple operations boiling and sauteeing vegetables and broiling a steak are outside of the realm of many a well-educated and intelligent young woman. 

How does a conversation with one girl show anything about many young women?

Edited by Daniel, 26 October 2005 - 12:08 PM.