401 replies to this topic

[angevin]

Pat's is my favorite for one reason only. Yeah, the steak is decent (I like a little "bite") and the roll is right on. But the reason it's gotta be Pat's for me is the hot sauce: thin, dark and spicy, self-ladled over the cheesesteak that melds perfectly with the whiz. Ketchup with a dash of hot sauce doesn't even come close.

[Tim Dolan]

I think I like Jim's Steaks the best, maybe Tony Luke's. Where's Delassandro's?

Dalessandro's is in Roxborough at Henry Ave and Wendover St., near Walnut Lane. I would say that Dalessandro's and Jim's both serve a similar style of steak, so if you like one then you will probably like the other just as well. While it is well documented that Dalessandro's is my personal favorite (close to where I live, nice people, been going there for years), I have to agree with Phil that John's Roast Pork is pretty much in their own league. It's the only place where I have brought people to that once they are finished they have said "that is the best cheesesteak I have ever had". That's no easy task given how much people from all over the city love to argue about cheesesteaks. It's just a matter of being around that area while they're open for business.

[Capaneus]

John's is the only cheesesteak I've ever actively liked - otherwise, I'm far into the roast pork camp. As for most of the more popular stands, I've only ever been able to understand them as nostalgia food: people love them because they have great memories attached. Same category as most mass-market candy.

[angevin]

John's is the only cheesesteak I've ever actively liked - otherwise, I'm far into the roast pork camp. As for most of the more popular stands, I've only ever been able to understand them as nostalgia food: people love them because they have great memories attached. Same category as most mass-market candy.

Yeah, true. But so? Aren’t all food preferences influenced by experiences and emotional connections to some extent?

People who love circus peanuts probably are influenced close to 100% by nostalgia.

For people who like oysters, maybe not as much. A one year old kid who tries an oyster for the first time isn’t influenced much at all by nostalgia, who is going merely on his genetic makeup and evolutionary biology. But when a 20 year old tries oysters for the first time, a lot of what determines his liking is based on memories – the brininess of an ocean spray, summers at the shore, tastes kinda like sushi…memories of being forced to eat slimy food, too metallic, tastes like snot…and so on.

I get what you’re saying about Pat’s, but Pat’s wasn’t the cheesesteak I grew up on. It was the mom-and-pop shop cheesesteak that was more in the style of Jim’s. And cheese whiz was never an option, only american. When I first began eating Pat’s in college I saw a difference and liked it. Maybe it was the whole peer pressure thing, who knows. But whatever the reason, I LIKE the way it eats, from the bite of the meat, the chew of the roll, and how the runniness of the whiz mixes with the juices from the meat and the hot sauce.

My liking of a Pat’s cheesesteak is no more based on nostalgia than your liking of La Colombe coffee. It’s a sincere taste preference, but you can’t deny that previous experience doesn’t influence your liking, both emotionally and intellectually. There is no absolute truth as to what is good tasting food and bad tasting food.

Full dislosure - I've never had John's. Gotta try one SOON!

Edited by angevin, 24 March 2011 - 12:04 PM.

[torakris]

This is an incredible thread! I've never seen such beautiful sandwiches. I've just recently decided to take a quick 2 day/2 might trip to Philadelphia as part of a road trip the kids and I will be taking this summer. After reading this thread I think we are going to eat sandwiches 3 meals a day.
I'm going to need some recommendations please! We will be in Philadelphia from a Wednesday afternoon to Friday morning, so we really only have 5 meals and want to get the best the city has to offer. I originally had a cheesesteak meal planned but after reading this thread I'm not sure if I should even bother, those pork Italianos look incredible. We don't have a hotel yet but I am probably going to book the Hilton Garden Inn by Reading Terminal Market as I have a feeling we will be there quite a bit and I have Hilton points. I would love to hear about great places within walking distance, walking distance for us is about 2km (1 1/2 miles?). How big are the sandwiches, I can't stand throwing food away and I don't want leftovers (as this takes away from the number of restaurants we can try ). My kids all eat more than I can so we are talking 4 adults sharing sandwiches. I was thinking of ordering 3 different kinds and sharing, we usually share as my kids want to try a little of everything...Would this be too much? not enough? If they are still hungry we can always pick up a snack somewhere.

[philadining]

You can cover a LOT of sandwich territory within the confines of the Reading Terminal Market, so you'll be well on your way after a visit or two there. As you've probably figured out from scanning this topic, among the highlights there are:

Roast Pork Italian from DiNic's, followed closely by many of the other sandwiches at DiNic's, but if you're goign to start somewhere, it's the Roast Pork, with sharp provolone, and greens. You can get either spinach or broccoli rabe, each of which have appeal, so it's hard to go wrong.

A Pastrami sandwich at Hershel's East Side Deli. This is not uniquely Philly, it's a decent approximation of a New York style deli sandwich. But it's a fine sandwich, and unless you are going to NY and eating at Katz's, you should get one.

Hoagies at Salumeria, and/or Carmen's. Carmen's is a bit more traditional Philly, Salumeria a bit more Italian, maybe... but both good. As has been documented upthread, there are a few passable cheesesteaks to be had if you just want to check that off your list, but I'd save the stomach space.

As for other sandwiches within walking distance...

I think you're right out of luck for the prime examples of Cheesesteaks, unless you feel like hopping in a cab. John's Roast Pork makes a cheesteak that is actually worth eating, but it's not easy to get to. Their roast pork is good too. Tony Luke's makes a very good roast pork sandwich, and a good cheesteak too, but it's similarly hard to get to.

Not too far away, at 15th and Sansom, is Shank's Original, which is, oddly enough, not in its original location, but they serve up some serious South Philly style sandwiches.

The better news is that there are a few more places that you could walk to that are worth the effort. They're a bit of a hike from your hotel, if you're staying up around the RTM, but if the weather is OK, it's not that long of a walk, and probably an area you'd like to see anyway. So head down to the Italian Market, basically south 9th street, starting 2-3 blocks south of South street. At 9th and Fitzwater, you have Sarcone's Deli, featuring some of the best sandwich rolls on the planet (they bake their own a few doors away.) I've heard a few sad stories recently of stale bread and therefore mediocre hoagies, but I still say it's worth the risk!

Continue south through the market, and you'll pass several places you will likely want to pop your heads into, but on the sandwich quest in particular, there's George's, and then most importantly, Paesano's.

The Paesano's sandwiches are ridiculous, over-the-top intense, sometimes a little weird. Their Arista, which is their equivalent of the Roast Pork Italian is right up there with the best, but they also have plenty of other crazy, delicious offerings. They have another location over near 2nd St and Girard Avenue, but that's not as convenient for you to get to, and not in the middle of a foodie destination like the Italian Market.

When you're down there, you're right near the famous Cheesesteak intersection with Pat's and Geno's facing one another, and despite their generally poor reputations among locals, you can get a decent steak there, although when you have the option of a sandwich from George's or Paesano's, or heck, tacos from any of the many little Mexican places that have sprung up along that strip (especially Tacos al Pastor from Taquitos de Puebla... )

While you're down that way, you're not far from a fantastic Banh Mi shop: Cafe Nhu Y. It's at 802 Christian St, which is right near the corner of 8th. They're not very big, but they're delicious, and cheap. There are lots more Banh Mi shops around town, but this one is my personal fave.

I'll throw in a recent development too, which would be especially convenient if you happen to be visiting the historical stuff around the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, the Constitution Center, etc. The Khyber Pass Pub, on 2nd St, between Chestnut and Market, makes some delicious New Orleans-style Po-Boys (they ship Leidenheimer's rolls in from New Orleans). Those are worth a trip by themselves, especially the roast beef with "debris" gravy, or the ham with debris, or, the fried oyster, or.. but a pretty regular offering on the specials board even trumps them. They're doing a version of a sandwich created at the New Orleans restaurant Bayona. It features smoked Duck, Cashew Butter and Pepper Jelly, on toasted whole wheat bread.



It's a little odd, but maybe my favorite sandwich right now, anywhere. The Khyber is a bar, but there's a dining room that would be fine with kids. It can be a bit loud, but not so much of you go for lunch, or early in the evening.

As for how much to order... tough call, many of these sandwiches are pretty large and dense. You could always err on the under-ordering side, and then get another kind of sandwich from the same place, or hit another spot, if you're still hungry. But then, I wouldn't want to have to choose between all of the good options...

Good luck!

Edited by philadining, 29 April 2011 - 05:22 PM.

[torakris]

Wow! What a response! I think on our full day we are going to do a sandwich crawl while taking in some of the historic sites. Thanks for including both bang mi and tacos, I hadn't thought of looking for them in Philadelphia. They will definitely be included as I can't get good versions in either Tokyo or Cleveland...

[nolnacs]

While you're down that way, you're not far from a fantastic Banh Mi shop: Cafe Nhu Y. It's at 802 Christian St, which is right near the corner of 8th. They're not very big, but they're delicious, and cheap. There are lots more Banh Mi shops around town, but this one is my personal fave.

I have to second the recommendation of Cafe Nhu Y. It calls my name every time I walk by on my way to or from the Italian Market.

[philadining]

Wow! What a response! I think on our full day we are going to do a sandwich crawl while taking in some of the historic sites. Thanks for including both bang mi and tacos, I hadn't thought of looking for them in Philadelphia. They will definitely be included as I can't get good versions in either Tokyo or Cleveland...

That's the interesting thing about the "Italian Market" in Philly: there are probably at least as many Mexican and Vietnamese shops and restaurants in that area as there are Italian. They're scattered around a bit, but within a few blocks of the corner of 9th and Washington, there's lots to choose from, and not just Italian, Mexican and Vietnamese. There's Middle Eastern, Laotian, Indonesian... But that neighborhood is pretty strong in Mexican and Vietnamese (and Italian) food.

But this is a sandwich thread, if you want specifics on Tacos, Pho, Satay, etc, we can hook you up - But we should probably find another thread for it!

[rlibkind]

The Hilton Garden Inn, btw, is at 11th & Arch: you don't even have to cross a street to get to the Reading Terminal! It's literally next door.

Another option: Chinatown, which is where you're hotel is located. Just walk down Arch to 10th Street and you're there. Lots of possibilities there, including dim sum if you take yourself away from sandwiches.

Hershel's cures its own pastrami and corned beef in the basement of the RTM.

Philadining was spot on about Carmens and Salumeri. I prefer the latter, usually ordering the proscuitto hoagie with house dressing (a vinaigrette variation) and paying a little extra for the marinated artichoke garnish.

No one has mentioned hamburgers! I'll leave most specific recommendations to others, though for an "almost" fast food experience I adore 500° on the 1500 block of Sansom Street, about a seven or eight block walk from your hotel. Good french fries, too. It's just a couple doors away from the Oyster House: try the snapper soup, a lightened version of a Philadephia classic. And say hello to eGulleter Katie Loeb at the bar if she's on duty.

[torakris]

I'm now realizing Philadelphia has way too much food to try for only 5 meals...

How late are the places in the Italian Market area open at night? Would this be a long? safe? walk. My kids and I walked from the Union Square Hilton (SF) through the tenderloin area quite a few times last summer and had no problems. It looks like the places we want to visit (Old City area) and the places we want to eat at are all grouped in 2 different areas. Looking at mapquest it's showing me about 10 to 15 minutes (walking) between some of the sights and the Italian Market, is this accurate?
If so we could sort of go back and forth.

Are the sandwich places in the Reading Terminal Market open early? Say I wanted to be at the visitors center (Old City) by 9am would we be able to get a sandwich before that?

Friday morning we are taking either a 5am Amtrak to Providence, is there anywhere to pick up something to eat before we get on the train? one last sandwich before we leave?

[rlibkind]

The Reading Terminal opens at 8 a.m., but you won't have much luck at most of the lunch sandwich vendors. By 9 a.m. you might be able to get a sandwich at Dinic', but not for certain. You should be able to score at 8 a.m. at Herschel's, though. The hoagie places at the RTM probably won't be set up then, other than breakfast sandwiches at Spataro's.

I can't think of any decent sandwich place in center city and environs where you could grab something for a 5 a.m. train.

[Holly Moore]

For 5 AM sandwiches - take a cab to Pat's or Gino's. Everyone should try Pat's at least once - that's where it all started. I'm one of those few people not born and bred in South Philadelphia who is a Pat's fan.

As an alternative, consider Philadelphia pretzels from the Center City Pretzel Company at 816 Washington, on the edge of the Italian Market. They start baking at midnight. Great train fodder.

Shouldn't be any issues walking from Center/Old City to the Italian Market. Easiest route is walking south on 9th. The Italian Market starts at Fitzwater and Sarcone's Deli and runs to Federal just before Pat's. If by chance anyone likes tripe, that is a specialty of George's just south of Christian. George's also does great meatball sandwiches, pork, Italian sausage and cheesesteaks. I really like Paesano's too, but George's has the history and the South Philly cred.

There is a great sandwich place in Center City that I'm not sure anyone has mentioned - Jake's Sandwich Board on 12th just south of Sansom

Edited by Holly Moore, 30 April 2011 - 03:33 PM.

[philadining]

The Hilton Garden Inn, btw, is at 11th & Arch: you don't even have to cross a street to get to the Reading Terminal! It's literally next door.

Another option: Chinatown, which is where you're hotel is located. Just walk down Arch to 10th Street and you're there. Lots of possibilities there, including dim sum if you take yourself away from sandwiches.

At the risk of completely derailing this thread, I'll concur that Chinatown is probably your best bet on that first night when you're getting in late-ish, other than the Down Home Diner in the RTM, which should still be open, and is the closest thing to you that's not a soul-less chain.

I realize that Asian food may not be a big priority for you or your kids while in Philly, but Chinatown is only a couple of blocks from your hotel, and offers a pretty wide range of possibilities: Malaysian, Burmese, Shanghainese, Taiwanese, Fujianese, Sichuan, etc, not just Cantonese, or Americanized Chinatown clichés (although there are good examples of these too, if that's what you're in the mood for!)

I'll even bring it back around to sandwiches: there's a good Banh Mi shop in Chinatown at 48 N 10th St (just south of Arch) called Q.T. Vietnamese Sandwich. They're only open until 7pm, but if you're on a Banh Mi Quest, you might fit it in. I prefer Cafe Nhu Y down in South Philly, but QT's are good too - larger, more stuffed, for better or worse, and QT is close to where you're staying.

There are also a couple of intriguing-sounding sandwiches on the menu of the new-ish "Pearl Restaurant - Szechuan Noodles" at 935 Race St in Chinatown. It's a very basic, super-casual place with a small menu of noodles, sandwiches, congee, and a few other things. (Although, if you're right there, it's hard to resist the hand-drawn noodles at Nan Zhou.)


As for places being open late in the Italian Market: as a rule, no, with some exceptions. Pats and Genos are open 24 hours. Many of the Taquerias are open fairly late. I don't recall the exact closing time, but George's closes mid-afternoon-ish? Earlier on sundays. Paesano's is only open 11am to 3pm (!) most days for some ridiculous reason. Friday and Saturday they go crazy and stay open until 5. At least that's what their website says, I haven't actually made it into the new location at 1017 S 9th Street.

http://www.paesanosphillystyle.com/

So I'd suggest getting down to the Italian Market by early afternoon if you can, it'll be more interesting to walk through anyway, many of the other shops, produce stalls, etc close up by 5 too. The walk down there and back isn't too bad, especially if you stick to 9th street. If you made it through the Tenderloin unscathed, this is a cakewalk. That said, there are a few blocks in there that can feel a little desolate after dark, so I'd shoot for earlier.


And yes - you're right, Philly's hard to sum-up in 5 meals!

Sorry, I can't think of anything especially good that you could pick up for a 5am train ride, other than leftover hoagies from the day before...

Edited by philadining, 30 April 2011 - 05:33 PM.

[torakris]

Leftover hoagies maybe the way to go!
Any suggestions for ones that keep up the best or might even be better the next day?

Thanks for the Chinatown suggestion, I was getting worried about what to do for that first dinner. It's good to know it isn't just Chinese, we had a great Burmese meal in SF and everything we ate in Malaysia two years ago was wonderful. I'll take a look in that area.

[gfweb]

I'd separate the veg from the meat so it doesn't get soggy.
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

[philadining]

Leftover hoagies maybe the way to go!
Any suggestions for ones that keep up the best or might even be better the next day?

I'm not sure how many places are prepared to package a "travel hoagie" with the components kept separate, but gfweb is right that the sandwiches are often better if the vegetables can be kept separate so they, and the bread, don't get soggy. One of the great things about a Philly hoagie is that it tends to have a pretty significant salad-ish component. That said, it's a bigger problem if they'll be kept for a long time. I've eaten plenty of conventionally-assembled hoagies the next day and they're still fine, if not quite as snappy as the moment they were made. I find that Banh Mi keep really well, because the pickled vegetables are more hardy. The cilantro will probably wilt, and the bread is best the same day, but again, overnight storage shouldn't make too big of a difference.

Thanks for the Chinatown suggestion, I was getting worried about what to do for that first dinner. It's good to know it isn't just Chinese, we had a great Burmese meal in SF and everything we ate in Malaysia two years ago was wonderful. I'll take a look in that area.

There's only one Burmese place in Philly: Rangoon on 9th St, just north of Arch. It's open until 9pm.

There are two Malaysian places in Chinatown: Penang and Banana Leaf. They're around the corner from one another, near the corner of 10th and Arch, and virtual clones. I believe Banana Leaf was opened by former Penang staff. The only big difference is that Penang serves beer and wine. The food is generally pretty equivalent, although FWIW, on a few recent visits to Penang, the food has been especially good. Both are open really late, until at least 1am.

[Capaneus]

For leftover sandwiches, my hands-down favorite would be a Muffuleta from the Khyber, assuming you have the ability to toast it the next morning. I think I actually prefer it that way. I really like their take on NOLa food overall, even if it's not Philadelphia-native. I went there soon after a recent trip to New Orleans, and I thought their po-boys stacked up nicely against Johnny's, which are supposedly among the better ones down there.

Other than that toasted Muffuleta, I think it's generally true that the bread on any sandwich is going to suffer for the wait: even if it doesn't get soggy, it'll lose its snap a bit. The only places I can think of that will feed you at that time are Pat's and Geno's, which I can't in good conscience recommend: I understand the anthropological argument, but no-one has ever asked me to eat Lascaux cave paintings.

[wkl]

i think herschels would pack a "deconstructed" pastrami sandwich for you. that way you could reassemble the next morning. they are pretty accomodating group behind the counter. just don't ask at the height of lunch rush.

i have had dinic's roast pork pretty early in the morning before. maybe by 9am? this sandwich may hold up pretty well overnight too.

i would highly recommend a meatball with provolone from shanks. currently one of my favorite sandwiches in the city.

check out dibruno's to go in the italian market for pannini. few different kinds. all delicious. iirc, they are on the cornor next to the huge frank rizzo mural.

another idea for sandwiches on the train the next morning: go to dibruno's cheese shop (not the "to go" place, but same owners, also in italian market on 9th street) and select from their world class selection of cheeses and meats what ever suits you (they will let you sample just about anything) buy a few rolls and you will be all set for a meal on the train. you could also accomplish this at reading terminal market. hit "downtown cheese" for cheese and prosciutto, grab rolls wherever. downtown cheese may have small bottle of olive oil you can buy to dress your sandwich. or maybe they would even pour off a little bit from an open bottle into a small container for travel.

eta: dibruno's on 9th street is a small shop, that is worth checking out even if you don't buy anything. it's just a classic, italian market standard that exudes south philly character. try to hit it at an off hour. it can get very crowded.

Edited by wkl, 02 May 2011 - 07:53 AM.

[Big Mike]

I've always said to my out of town friends, cheese steaks don't travel well. I give props to Primo's, whatever bread they use stands up really well to saving for the next day.

[zeffer81]

You can get a deconstructed sandwich from DiNic's.

[Holly Moore]

Heard about thisCheesesteak Chart on Twitter. As expected, but breakdown between tourists and natives is interesting. Lists never mention George's Sandwiches on 9th just below Christian.

[Kerry Beal]

Heard about thisCheesesteak Chart on Twitter. As expected, but breakdown between tourists and natives is interesting. Lists never mention George's Sandwiches on 9th just below Christian.

What is your theory on the difference between tourist ratings and local's ratings?

[Holly Moore]

High tourist - proximity to Center City and/or being featured on Monday Night Football or the Food Network.

At the same time - I don't think Tony Luke's, Pat's or Geno's ratings accurately reflect local traffic count.

[jsmeeker]

This thread really makes me excited for the 2012 "Heartland" gathering in Philly. We simply must work in some sort of "sandwich crawl"

[rlibkind]

Once upon a time, the roast pork sandwich at DiNic's at the Reading Terminal Market could be had with only one green: spinach. Tom and Joe Nicolosi, the father-son team which operates the Center Court stall, tried adding broccoli rabe, but no one wanted it.

That changed a couple years ago when DiNic's reintroduced the bitter green. Tastes change and now it's a hit. This Saturday Joe was tending to five trays of rabe for cooking with oil and garlic, vs. two of spinach; considering that the spinach weighs less than the rabe per volume of measurement and has a lower yield, the rabe probably outsells spinach by a ratio of nearly 10-to-1. Although you could hardly go wrong my ordering a sandwich with aged provolone and spinach, I go for the rabe, which offers a clear balance between the sweetness of the pork and bitterness of the green.

Lately I've been indulging in breakfast sandwiches from The Grill at Smucker's. Moses Smucker and his crew offer a meaty start to the morning, piling on plenty of ham, bacon, sausage of pork roll atop a roll also filled with egg and/or cheese. The pork roll comes from John F. Martin in the Lancaster/Berks area; it's good, though lacks the spicy punch of the original Jersey variety from either Taylor or Case. The sausage breakfast sandwich comes with two patties which are both the size of a hamburger; the sausage seems to be flavored with a bit of onion rather than sage, but that's no sacrifice to my taste.

[Tim Dolan]

Speak of the devil, I was at DiNic's yesterday right around noon before the football games started. I did not go with spinach (which I like very much) or broccoli rabe (which I don't like at all), but I did get the Italian pulled pork with sharp provolone and long hots (which I LOVE). In my humble opinion, it's easily their best sandwich.

[Andrew Fenton]

Is it just me, or have the lines at DiNic's lengthened radically over the last couple of years? Seems like if I walk by any time in the vicinity of lunch (up to maybe 1:30 or so), there will be a super long line.

I don't know if that's because they've gotten nationwide press, or have benefited from the demise of Rick's Steaks, or what. I'm delighted for DiNic's, of course, but I wouldn't try to get a sandwich there on a weekend; definitely not around lunchtime.

[Tim Dolan]

I would 100% agree that the lines have increased from "tolerable-yet-slightly-annoying" lengths in the pre-Man vs. Food days to "simply-not-worth-it" lengths in the post-nationwide press days.

Yesterday I lucked out. I was there at just about 12 noon on the dot, but the Market as a whole seemed "slow" by their usual standards. When I got there the line had just begun to snake around to the first few counter seats. Within 45 seconds of standing in line, one counter seat opened up and I jumped right in it. It was probably the 3rd seat in from the right, and by the time I left there were people behind me.

I was in there a few weeks ago on a very busy Saturday around 1 and the line snaked all the way around the counter seats and back down the isle in between DiNic's and Beck's. From there the line went straight back almost to the next intersection. That would be the "simply-not-worth-it" line that I mentioned a few sentences ago.

[rlibkind]

Business at DiNic's has certainly benefitted from the Man vs. Food show (portions of which have been recycled into other Travel Channel shows). The increased congestion at Center court is one of the reasons why the market sought to relocate the stall to Ochs' spot. I'm not convinced it will work, but it's worth a shot. Since the line can be be long at Hershel's across from the new spot (though not nearly as long as DiNic's), a traffic cop might be necessary. (As it is Market security often has to shape the Dinic's line.)