401 replies to this topic

[Rich Pawlak]

Knowing Carmen, I seriously doubt that his rolls would come from Amoroso's. He used a little known bakery in South Jersey when he ran Rocco's Hoagies in the Bellevue Food Court. He is a serious hoagie roll fanatic.

[rlibkind]

Knowing Carmen, I seriously doubt that his rolls would come from Amoroso's. He used a little known bakery in South Jersey when he ran Rocco's Hoagies in the Bellevue Food Court. He is a serious hoagie roll fanatic.

Well, there were big boxes marked Amoroso's, so if he was using a different bread, they were using somebody else's boxes. Regardless of the baker, my evaluation of the bread stands: it was a bit too white-bready for me. But otherwise a very nice sandwich.

[rlibkind]

Messy of the Messy & Picky blog thinks the Italian pulled pork at DiNic's is the best sandwich around. I'm hard-pressed to place a single sandwich alone on a pedestal, even the No. 5 combo from Goodman's Deli of my youth, but DiNic's is certainly worthy of praise.

It's difficult to go for anything other than the roast pork with greens and aged provolone, though cases can certainly be made for other sandwiches at DiNic's. My buddy Ralphie the Winemaker raves about Tommy's cold roast beef with horseradish, roasted sweet peppers and provolone, and the Italian-style brisket is no less a masterpiece than the Jewish-style brisket (ask for it with extra fat) at Hershel's across center court.

Messy likes his pulled pork with horseradish and provolone. When I asked Joe Nicolosi what he'd recommend, he offered long hots and provlone. It was an excellent combination, even if the surplus of seeds in the pepper added a texture I could do without (the extra heat from the seeds was just fine). The only crunch I want on that sandwich is from the burned bits of meat, which the sandwich-makers make sure are mixed in with the tender, succulent, pulled-to-order meat. Just don't expect a barbeque style pulled pork. This pig sandwich is thoroughly Italian; those who abhore garlic should stay away.

So, next time you're at DiNic's, break out of the ordinary. Try your pork pulled.

[Holly Moore]

Joe had to twist my arm a few times - but he finally convinced me to try their brisket sandwich. Better than the pork sandwich? Probably not. But DiNic's brisket plus aged provolone is awfully good.

[rlibkind]

Messy of the Messy & Picky blog thinks the Italian pulled pork at DiNic's is the best sandwich around.

Correction: It was Picky, not Messy, who waxed enthusiastically about the Italian pulled pork.

[rlibkind]

When I first started visiting the Reading Terminal Market more than a quarter century ago, Spataro's was known as the place where you could stop for lunch and pay about as little for a sandwich as humanly possible. Inflation and menu upgrades have changed that, though Spataro's (which has since moved from one part of Center Court to another) still represents good value.

The addition of cheese steaks to Spataro's bill of fare earlier this year is partly responsible for the hike in average menu cost ($7 for a plain steak, iirc). Their version of the cheese steak represents the third and final entry in my RTM survey of this Philadelphia classic.

The best thing about Spataro's is the meat. Although it would take side-by-side comparisons to confirm this (I've spaced my tastings over the past five or six weeks), I thought their meat was the beefiest I've tried so far, when compared to By George and Carmen's. There was also a satisfactory taste of onions in my sandwich though I could have used a bit more. The bread was okay, the typical soft steak roll -- I'd like just a hint of crunch to the crust.

The main failing was the cheese: I couldn't taste it, let alone detect the cheesy, gooey mouth feel I want my cheese steak to convey. As best as I could determine, they used two thin slices of American, though provolone is also offered. Another failing is the unavailability of hot sauce.

Still, it's a fine representation of a cheese steak and you won't be disappointed when you crave this icon of our fair city's culinary heritage.

More About DiNic's Pulled Pork

One morning last week Joe Nicolosi offered me a taste of some of his pulled pork fresh out of the oven. Gotta say, while this sandwich is excellent eating any time of the day, it's better if you can get it fresh before the fat has a chance to re-congeal. It absolutely melted in the mouth, with textural contrast offered by the crunchy bits. As previously noted, don't confuse this version with what you're likely to find in North Carolina: the seasonings are Italian (with tons of garlic), not barbecue.

[rlibkind]

She Who Must Be Obeyed and I decided to lunch at Supper. She had the hot dog (see the hot dog topic for comments on that), I went for the pork belly reuben.

The sandwich, served open-faced on good Jewish rye (no, it didn't make it kosher) lathered with Thousand Islands dressing, nice slice of gelatinous, fatty belly (though not crispy as advertised on the menu), sauerkraut, gruyere and apple. When brought to the table, I thought all the "reubenesque" additives would overwhelm the pork, but they didn't. While the pork flavor didn't dominate, it was there and worked well, particularly with the kraut and apple, which are traditional pork accompaniments. The homemade "pastrami" flavored potato chips, thin, crispy and greasless, added a nice crunch to the plate.

In ordering, I was torn between the hot dog, the reuben and the lamb pastrami sandwich. What clinched my choice was the presence on the beer list of Fallen Apple, a cream ale brewed with fresh-pressed apple cider from Furthermore Beer of Spring Green, Wisconsin. (It's actually produced for Furthermore by a contract brewer, Sand Creek, up north in Black River Falls.) As I noted about the sandwich, apples and pork product are a natural combination (apples are picked and pork slaughtered at the same time of the year). Apple-flavored beer might not be for everyone, but it's worth trying when you've got the right food to go with it. While I wouldn't order it as a session beer, it was an excellent pairing for this lunch.

[tim e]

That Furthermore beer sounds intriguing -- I've always been underwhelmed by Sand Creek's house beer (my in-laws have a place near Black River Falls), but hopefully their contract stuff is better. And the sandwich looks to die for.

[philadining]

Sorry I don't have a picture of it, but I had a pretty incredible sandwich the other day at an unlikely location. I had it at the bar called Alfa, at 1709 Walnut. It doesn't seem like the kind of place that would have good food, but it in fact has a surprisingly adventurous menu. They do have some typical bar food, like wings and burgers and sliders, etc, but also more sophisticated dinners, including several nightly specials (all of which they serve until 1am, seven days a week!)

I recently couldn't resist their version of a Uraguayan Chivito, which is not on the regular menu right now, but I'm told it's a frequent special. It's kind of like a Chesesteak crossed with a Cubano visited by a muffuletta - or more accurately, all those things piled together. This one featured thin, tender slices of filet mignon, ham, bacon, Oaxacan cheese, a fried egg, olive salad and roasted peppers, all piled on a crusty long roll. It was a real challenge to get in my mouth, but with a little squeezing and squashing and stretching, I managed somehow. And wow, that is a delicious sandwich! It's a really nice collision of flavors, and despite the fact that it probably weighed about as much as the average SEPTA bus, I couldn't stop eating it until it was gone. Pretty good fries too, not that I could manage to eat many of those.

So, I took two lessons from this:
1 - we should eat at Alfa more often.
2 - we need more Chivitos in this town.

[rlibkind]

Two guys open a cheese steak joint in DC. After they get the first and then the second store up and running smoothly, they decide to add roast pork to their menu, but they work to get the recipe just right. One of the partners, Chris Patten, uses John's, DiNic's and Tony Luke's as his guide. After finally perfecting the dish to his satisfaction, he adds to the menu. But, according to this Washington Post article,

Still, Patten can't, or won't, say his hoagie beats John's or DiNic's -- yet. "Those guys have been doing this for decades upon decades," he said. "Let's see how I feel in 10 years."

'Nuff said.

[KatieLoeb]

Here's the best quote from the Washington Post article:

...Most Americans think of the cheesesteak as Philly's signature sandwich. But there has been a slow realization around the country that the City of Brotherly Love also deserves praise for a sandwich that would never include Cheez Whiz. The roast pork hoagie taps into Philadelphia's Italian American roots. From Italy comes the thinly sliced meat, the shards of aged provolone and the broccoli rabe. From America comes the super-sized portion and the everything-is-better-on-a-bun portability. The result transcends either place: It's a balance of meaty richness, sharp cheese and spicy, bitter greens that is greater than the sum of its parts...

How long have we all been saying this? Nice to know someone finally heard us!!

Edited by KatieLoeb, 10 January 2010 - 11:31 PM.

[phungi]

Joe had to twist my arm a few times - but he finally convinced me to try their brisket sandwich. Better than the pork sandwich? Probably not. But DiNic's brisket plus aged provolone is awfully good.

Didn't take a photo, but was at Cajun Kate's on Friday, and their Brisket Po Boy can stand its ground vs. the Philly Cheesesteak or Roast Pork... the combination of the brisket's juices with the "fully dressed" liquids creates a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts...

[Holly Moore]

Agreed. What I particularly like about Cajun Kate's version is that I will have dripped enough on and about me that I can savor the aromas all the way home in my car.

[Tom]

A disappointing note in the tune for Nick's Charcoal Pit. Although Nick's Special Sandwich was everything Holly promised, watching the cook spit, twice, into the garbage can by the cooktop spoiled the experience.

[philadining]

I'd never noticed that there was a Capriotti's in Exton, not sure how long it's been there (in the Fairfield Place shopping center, with the Giant supermarket and the Staples.) It just so happens that a Thanksgiving dinner leftovers hoagie sounded like exactly the right thing.

The Bobby:


Hand-carved roasted turkey, stuffing, cranberry sauce, mayo. Delicious. I didn't even mind the big piece of bone i found in there, I just figured it proved that the meat was carved from a real bird.

http://www.capriottis.com/

[jmbrightman]

The Day After sandwich at Havana in New Hope was my favorite for many years.

[rlibkind]

DiNic's at the RTM is going whole hot. Details on the RTM topic here.

[KatieLoeb]

Philadelphia Magazine prints 18 Best Sandwiches in the new Cheap Eats issue, just hitting the newsstands. Warning: the slide show will cause a Pavlovian reaction.

[janeer]

Philadelphia Magazine prints 18 Best Sandwiches in the new Cheap Eats issue, just hitting the newsstands. Warning: the slide show will cause a Pavlovian reaction.

All I can say is, thank god (or is it, alas!) I don't live in Philly anymore.

[Chris Hennes]

OK Philly folk: a couple of us over at The WikiGullet Project started up an article about the Cheesesteak (of course). Step one was to read what Wikipedia had, which led me to the comments there, where I found this:

Anyone else think that there should be a section on how to order a steak in Philly? From personal experience, if you go up to the front of the line at Pat's or Gino's and if you don't know what you want, you get sent back to the end of said line. A simple section of the basics (wiz wit, wiz witout) would be cool, especially for the Philly locals that are tired of tourists taking 3 minutes to order a simple wiz wit, ya know?

probably not. The specific procedure for ordering a specific cheesesteak at a specific restaurant likely falls outside of the realm of what Wikipedia is designed for. See WP:NOT. Even though Gino's and Pat's are the most famous cheesesteak places, the quirks of each restaurant doesn't really belong in a general article on cheesesteaks.

I'm from Philadelphia, lived here my whole life, and I'd go with not mentioning it. Philly locals don't order like that, and I hate the image the tourism market paints of the whole thing.

...so, of course, my question is: is there really a local Philly cheesesteak ordering taxonomy, or is the whole "whiz wit" thing tourist BS? I must admit that last time I was at Pat's I did in fact order a "whiz wit" and they gave me what I was expecting. But I don't know how the locals in line were ordering theirs.

[Holly Moore]

I order "whiz wit," but was born in north Jersey and have only lived in Philadelphia for 34 years. My sense is that it started with Pat's, crossed the street to Geno's and then spread to most cheesesteakeries - except, of course, the few that don't offer whiz.

[gfweb]

I order Whiz whenever its available. Been around Philly my whole life.

But it has to be real Whiz. Ersatz whiz is bland and crappy. One must look for the Cheeze Whiz can on the flat top.

Edited by gfweb, 17 March 2011 - 05:43 PM.

[philadining]

I don't think a detailed discussion of the language of ordering would be productive, the exact lexicon certainly varies a lot from place to place.

That said, I'd say the particular phrase "whiz wit" and/or "cheeze wit" is worthy of inclusion. It is indeed legit local vernacular, I hear people say it all the time who are clearly not tourists. It's understood everywhere, even if Pat's is the only place I've noticed with a sign posted that dictates the "proper" way to order with such stridency.

Perhaps more important, I've seen it used incorrectly in print quite often, it is sometimes misunderstood to mean with cheese, when the "wit" part actually means with onions. So "cheese wit" is a steak with cheese and onions. Depending on the place, that would get you either whiz or american cheese. "Whiz wit" is a popular disambiguation, as the wiki world would say.

I use the phrase "whiz wit," I find it an efficient way to order. But, like Holly, I'm an immigrant, I've only been here 30 years, so maybe both of us are still newbie rubes.

[Holly Moore]

I don't think a detailed discussion of the language of ordering would be productive, the exact lexicon certainly varies a lot from place to place.

Agreed. Except it is important that visitors know to be sure to order their fries and drinks at the same time they order their cheesesteak.

[Chris Hennes]

Also, they should wear Dallas Cowboys hats.

[handmc]

If you are going to add the bit about the hat make sure you mention that they should carry their health insurance card in the front left pocket of their jeans as they will probably need it.

[Big Mike]

I've ordered from Geno's dozens of times and seldom used the codewords. I certainly have never said "wit", but I will say "with" to indicate that I would like fried onions. But I'm from South Jersey, maybe that makes a difference. I do think it's a little bit of a play up on being "in-the-know", kind of like ordering an animal style burger at In-and-Out. The only time the guys behind the counter get annoyed with you is if you walk up to order and still don't know what you want. That annoys the crap out them.

[Tim Dolan]

I don't think a detailed discussion of the language of ordering would be productive, the exact lexicon certainly varies a lot from place to place.

That said, I'd say the particular phrase "whiz wit" and/or "cheeze wit" is worthy of inclusion. It is indeed legit local vernacular, I hear people say it all the time who are clearly not tourists. It's understood everywhere, even if Pat's is the only place I've noticed with a sign posted that dictates the "proper" way to order with such stridency.

I'd lean towards saying the only time I hear people ordering using particular words are at Pat's and Geno's. They are the only two places that I feel compelled to order in a different way than I normally would, and even then I barely do so.

When I want a cheesesteak, I normally go to Dalessandro's, and I order a "cheesesteak, American cheese, no onions". Sometimes I ask for sauce, most of the time I don't. I wouldn't go into Dalessandro's (or anywhere else for that matter) and ask for an "American pizza witout" like I would if I were at Pat's or Geno's. Although if I did order like that, I'm sure they would understand what I wanted. And like I said, even at Pat's and Geno's I've said "cheesesteak, American cheese, sauce, no onions" on more occasions than I can count. The cashier then relays that order to the grill guy as "American pizza witout". I haven't gotten laughed to the back of the line or anything like that. Either way works, but I suppose Pat's and Geno's shortened the vernacular since they're pumping out cheesesteak in an assembly line fashion.

Edited by Tim Dolan, 21 March 2011 - 08:19 AM.

[Big Mike]

I was at Geno's this past weekend, my kids wanted to see what the fuss is all about. Plus the Italian Market is right there which is nice walk. Since we were talking about it here I listened closely to the ordering system. The guy yelling the order didn't say Wit, he said With. They sure do crank out the product there, three bus loads of tourists came minutes after we started eating and the line wrapped around the building but they still got the steaks out fast.

I think I like Jim's Steaks the best, maybe Tony Luke's. Where's Delassandro's?

[philadining]

While I'm in the minority that thinks that one can get a decent steak at Pat's or Geno's, I wouldn't ever claim that they're the best. As Mike mentioned, sometimes it's a location thing, the Italian Market is right there, you're in the area, you're hungry. More often, it's a time thing for me, they're open all the time. Sometimes you need a steak at 4:30am.

My favorite spot is John's roast pork, but they're hardly ever open when I want to go, and they're not in an especially convenient location, especially for visitors, so they're hard to recommend. I also like Tony Luke's, and while they're open more, sometimes, they're not open late enough... and they too are in a less-than-convenient location.

Dalessandro's is way off the beaten path, it's more of a neighborhood place, not a location you'd send a visitor to. And no offense to their supporters, but I just don't think it's a real destination kind of place - it's perfectly fine - I like their steaks well enough, but I feel like they're mostly distinguished by being generous with the meat. That's all well and good, but more is not always inherently better. I'd get one if I were out that way and hungry, but I personally wouldn't send someone out of their way for one.

And for the "wit" pronunciation, I wouldn't generalize too much from one guy - there's certainly a gradation of a range between with and wit. I certainly started out saying with, and I don't think I'm all the way to wit, but it's getting there.

Also it's hard to keep that "th" fricative after a dose of cheeze whiz, so a second steak is a whiz wit for sure...