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In praise of a bread machine

Bread

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#31 Marlene

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 05:38 PM

I am reviving this thread in hopes of getting a tried and true recipe for a simple white bread in which the dough is made in the machine but the baking is done in the oven.  I like the convenience of the machine, especially now when I am in the middle of packing for a move, but I hate the shape of the resulting loaf, the big hole made by the paddle, the crust.........  So I want the best I can get from both worlds for the time being.  Anyone make dough in the machine and bake in the oven on a regular basis and can offer a no-fail recipe?

Here's mine:

1 1/4 tsp salt
1 Tbsp sugar
1 1/2 cup water
3 2/3 cup bread flour
1 1/2 tsp instant yeast or bread machine yeast

Set on dough cycle. Shape and let rise. Slash the bread a little with a sharp knife.
Bake in 400f oven for about 30 mins or until thermometer reaches 200 deg. If you like a hard crust, spray oven a few times during the first two mins of baking only.

Spray oven?
Marlene
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#32 Cusina

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 06:20 PM

I too own one of these big un-glamorous plastic boxes. You can make a mighty fine pizza crust dough in it. I think that is what I use mine for the most, followed by the dough for yeast rolls and cinnamon rolls. I hardly ever use the baking cycle as we don't really enjoy the crust or the shape of the resulting loaf. The high end breads at the grocery and the bakery are better, IMHO.
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#33 helenjp

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 06:27 PM

Not trying to sound mysterious, but the perfect recipe is going to depend subtly on your locally available flour, and on the temperature of your kitchen...

I am just about to replace my 2nd breadmaker -- it's just too feeble to knead the dough anymore. It's been used daily, because although longrise handmade bread is much better in texture and flavor, the breadmaker makes better bread than the Japanese supermarket version.

Why don't I make our own bread by hand every day? 1) The breadmaker has a timer, 2) the breadmaker produces much less heat in a summer kitchen than the oven, and does not overload the power supply and black the house out in winter, either!

I hear that horizontal pans with double paddles produce a better crust than vertical pans, but haven't seen one.

I have used sourdough in a breadmaker -- I found an explanation on the Internet which involved putting cooled boiled water and whole wheat flour together in a jar, and just leaving them to ferment. Theory: wheat grain coating contains enough of the needed yeasts to ferment the flour, and introducing other stuff or leaving the jar uncovered just risks contamination from unwanted microorganisms. Practice: it worked perfectly! Best starter ever!

#34 McDuff

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 06:31 PM

After reading how simple it was to have bread every day by using the machine I got excited. That would be too cool. But after reading the rest of the thread, I think I'll stick with my 12 qt Univex and the 5 ton brick oven in the back yard. I might not be making bread every day, but questions of crust bother me not at all.

#35 Marlene

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 07:03 PM

I hear that horizontal pans with double paddles produce a better crust than vertical pans, but haven't seen one.

The Westbend is a horizontal pan with double paddles. I had a vertical one for a while and didn't like it. Then I had a Black and Decker horizontal one, and it is not nearly as good as the Westbend. I got myself another Westbend in the end and i love it.
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Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

#36 BettyK

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Posted 16 December 2003 - 10:48 PM

I am reviving this thread in hopes of getting a tried and true recipe for a simple white bread in which the dough is made in the machine but the baking is done in the oven.  I like the convenience of the machine, especially now when I am in the middle of packing for a move, but I hate the shape of the resulting loaf, the big hole made by the paddle, the crust.........  So I want the best I can get from both worlds for the time being.  Anyone make dough in the machine and bake in the oven on a regular basis and can offer a no-fail recipe?

Here's mine:

1 1/4 tsp salt
1 Tbsp sugar
1 1/2 cup water
3 2/3 cup bread flour
1 1/2 tsp instant yeast or bread machine yeast

Set on dough cycle. Shape and let rise. Slash the bread a little with a sharp knife.
Bake in 400f oven for about 30 mins or until thermometer reaches 200 deg. If you like a hard crust, spray oven a few times during the first two mins of baking only.

Spray oven?

Yes. That's how I make my French baguettes almost every day. I guess it's optional. Whatever works for you. Just a word of caution here (specially for any beginners) and I'm not kidding but I've heard people saying that their oven door shattered by doing that. I wouldn't be too surprised if they sprayed the oven door instead of the inside of the oven. Please do not send me any claim if this happens to your oven. Do it at your own risk. Just like frying a turkey :laugh:

#37 jackal10

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 12:51 AM

Have you tried with sourdough starter instead of yeast? You may need to adjust the rising times, but 6-8 hours should be OK. Do these machines allow two rises, that is seperate fermentation and proof steps? If not they may be more suitable for brown or wholemeal bread.

#38 Anna N

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 01:57 AM

Have you tried with sourdough starter instead of yeast? You may need to adjust the rising times, but 6-8 hours should be OK. Do these machines allow two rises, that is seperate fermentation and proof steps? If not they may be more suitable for brown or wholemeal bread.

My sourdough attempts were such utter failures that I need time to recover before I attempt them again. My analyst is working on my post-traumatic symptoms :biggrin:

My machine is completely automatic and allows for no manual overrides of any sort so two rises is not possible. With a bread machine you have to be willing to accept a compromise - artisanal bread is not going to happen but fresh bread on a regular basis that is an order of magnitude above cotton wool ought to be and that's all I want.
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#39 fresco

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 03:03 AM

Anna, good luck with your bread making. It's amazing (and gratifying) to see how quickly other people in your household develop an intolerance for bought bread once they become accustomed to the home variety.
Arthur Johnson, aka "fresco"

#40 fresco

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 05:58 AM

Anna, good luck with your bread making. It's amazing (and gratifying) to see how quickly other people in your household develop an intolerance for bought bread once they become accustomed to the home variety.

Anna rocks pretty well right around the clock.
Arthur Johnson, aka "fresco"

#41 Anna N

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 12:38 PM

Here's mine:

1 1/4 tsp salt
1 Tbsp sugar
1 1/2 cup water
3 2/3 cup bread flour
1 1/2 tsp instant yeast or bread machine yeast

Set on dough cycle. Shape and let rise. Slash the bread a little with a sharp knife.
Bake in 400f oven for about 30 mins or until thermometer reaches 200 deg. If you like a hard crust, spray oven a few times during the first two mins of baking only.

I swear I have already posted this once today - hmmmmmmmm...

Thanks, BettyK. This made a very nice bread - chewy and tasty and a perfect accompaniment to soups and stews. It will go into my repertoire.

Happy with this result, I adapted my favourite pumpernickel bread-machine recipe to oven baking and it looks fabulous - have not cut into it yet.

Now for a recipe for a sandwich-type white bread - something with a finer crumb and a bit less chewy than BettyK's - anyone?

Note to fresco: Don't have time to rock around the clock - too busy baking bread. :smile:
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#42 fresco

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 12:55 PM

Note to fresco:  Don't have time to rock around the clock - too busy baking bread. :smile:

So that makes you what, a loafer?
Arthur Johnson, aka "fresco"

#43 gus_tatory

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 01:10 PM

You mentioned grapes & other exotica as a starter (pre-b'maker).  Can you elaborate & perhaps supply a recipe or some guidence as I have only recently learned of such things and would appreciate learning from your experience.

blh--

see jackal 10's *excellent* course on sourdough breads for the eGCI.

sourdough bread course here
"The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the ocean."
--Isak Dinesen

#44 BettyK

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 02:17 PM

Here's mine:

1 1/4 tsp salt
1 Tbsp sugar
1 1/2 cup water
3 2/3 cup bread flour
1 1/2 tsp instant yeast or bread machine yeast

Set on dough cycle. Shape and let rise. Slash the bread a little with a sharp knife.
Bake in 400f oven for about 30 mins or until thermometer reaches 200 deg. If you like a hard crust, spray oven a few times during the first two mins of baking only.

I swear I have already posted this once today - hmmmmmmmm...

Thanks, BettyK. This made a very nice bread - chewy and tasty and a perfect accompaniment to soups and stews. It will go into my repertoire.

Happy with this result, I adapted my favourite pumpernickel bread-machine recipe to oven baking and it looks fabulous - have not cut into it yet.

Now for a recipe for a sandwich-type white bread - something with a finer crumb and a bit less chewy than BettyK's - anyone?

Note to fresco: Don't have time to rock around the clock - too busy baking bread. :smile:

You're welcome, Anna. Glad to hear it worked out well. You know you can use any of your bread machine recipes and just put it on dough cycle then shape, let rise and bake in the oven. Apart from French bread I usually bake my other breads at 375F. Have fun :smile:

#45 Anna N

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 10:31 AM

I may not be rocking as per fresco but I am definitely on a roll. I used this recipe for a loaf of white sandwich bread and baked it in the oven - meets my standards for a soft, close-crumbed, white sandwich bread. It rose beautifully and even using the oven for final baking, took about the same time as it would to get a loaf completely cooked in the machine. I'm falling in love again with this machine.

This site (King Arthur Flour) does something I've never seen before - separates bread machine recipes into those baked completely in the machine and those kneaded in the machine but baked in the oven - very useful.
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#46 Anna N

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Posted 24 December 2003 - 03:40 AM

Not willing to let this thread die, yet! I am becoming evangelistic on the subject of the possibilities of the bread machine combined with the oven. Maybe I can convince a few posters to dust off their machines and try again.

One of the problems we face as a two-person household is that almost any purchased bread goes stale long before we have eaten it. Yet, we love a variety of breads. So I have been experimenting with dividing each dough into two to make much smaller loaves. One I bake immediately and the second I freeze for later baking.

Yesterday I made a country seed bread and baked one immediately and the other is in the freezer and I will take it out today, let it thaw overnight and see how it turns out tomorrow. (The first one disappeared in a single meal.)

The nice thing about the machine is the lack of effort and mess needed to make the dough.

But I think there is more to my success than simply mechanical kneading - after all, how difficult is kneading. I think the machine works better for me because of the constant and correct temperature it maintains for proving.

And that site I mentioned in an earlier post (King Arthur) has so many recipes for so many breads that I may spend the holidays wearing out my bread machine and my newly acquired Cuisinart countertop convection oven!

BettyK: Made your recipe yet again, divided it into two loaves, put one in my conventional oven and one in the convection oven and the crust on the one in the convection oven was noticeably "crustier" and nicer. Thanks again for this recipe.
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#47 sparrowgrass

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Posted 24 December 2003 - 07:37 AM

The Zojirushi bread maker is horizontal with 2 paddles, and seems to be infinitely programmable. I love mine--have been running it almost non stop for the last couple of days. (I have the dressing assignment for Christmas dinner.)
sparrowgrass

#48 BettyK

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Posted 25 December 2003 - 11:41 PM

Anna,

Glad you're enjoying this bread as it's one of my favorites. I just tried a new recipe tonight. I think you will like this. Great sandwich bread. You might have to adjust the water a bit. I had to add a few teaspoons while kneading as it looked very dry. Also, I used instant yeast instead of active dry yeast - just use slightly less. Not sure if active dry yeast would work in a bread machine. Let me know if you try this.

#49 Rachel Perlow

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Posted 14 February 2004 - 07:07 AM

The Zojirushi bread maker is horizontal with 2 paddles, and seems to be infinitely programmable. I love mine--have been running it almost non stop for the last couple of days.

If this thread made you want a breadmaker but you were waiting to find a good one at a great price, check out the Zojirushi BBCC-V20 Home Bakery Traditional Breadmaker. It is on sale at Amazon for $141.82 (from $250). In addition, it currently listed in my Gold Box for $120.55, so check yours to see if you can get it at that price.

#50 tedwin

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 08:58 AM

I've had good results using the recipes from Rustic European Breads in my Zojirushi. The recipes begin with a bread machine to prepare the dough which is then shaped and baked in a conventional oven.

Also note that Zojirushi has recently introduced a new model of their bread machine BBCCX20. It doesn't appear to have any new significant features that would merit replacing my BBCCV20. . Does anyone have experience with the new model?

#51 uberleet

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 10:37 AM

I've had good results using the recipes from Rustic European Breads in my Zojirushi.  The recipes begin with a bread machine to prepare the dough which is then shaped and baked in a conventional oven.

I love this book! I also recommend it to people who don't have bread machines, it's a good introduction to baking bread.

Also note that Zojirushi has recently introduced a new model of their bread machine BBCCX20.  It doesn't appear to have any new significant features that would merit replacing my BBCCV20.  .  Does anyone have experience with the new model?

I don't have personal experience with the new one, but there's a good Zojirushi BBCCX220 Review, if you haven't already seen it. Summarizing:

While I don't think the Zojirushi BBCC-X20 is worth upgrading to for the Zojirushi BBCC-V20 owners it is a wonderful machine for those just getting in to bread machines or those with older or more basic machines. You can't go wrong with a Zojirushi.


I have the V220, I use it 3-4 times a week and I'm in no hurry to upgrade :biggrin: - but the new power failure protection would be nice. :hmmm:

#52 Marlene

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 10:48 AM

The Zojirushi bread maker is horizontal with 2 paddles, and seems to be infinitely programmable.  I love mine--have been running it almost non stop for the last couple of days.

If this thread made you want a breadmaker but you were waiting to find a good one at a great price, check out the Zojirushi BBCC-V20 Home Bakery Traditional Breadmaker. It is on sale at Amazon for $141.82 (from $250). In addition, it currently listed in my Gold Box for $120.55, so check yours to see if you can get it at that price.

I wish people wouldnt' show me these things :biggrin: now i want one of these :biggrin:
Marlene
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Practice. Do it over. Get it right.
Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

#53 Rachel Perlow

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 11:05 AM

I've had good results using the recipes from Rustic European Breads in my Zojirushi.  The recipes begin with a bread machine to prepare the dough which is then shaped and baked in a conventional oven.

Also note that Zojirushi has recently introduced a new model of their bread machine BBCCX20.  It doesn't appear to have any new significant features that would merit replacing my BBCCV20.  .  Does anyone have experience with the new model?

eGullet Amazon links for:Rustic European Breads and Zojirushi model #BBCCV20
Buying by using direct links (like those above) or by clicking the amazon links at the bottom of the page, help us bring you eGullet.com. Thanks for your support.

#54 Marlene

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Posted 17 February 2004 - 11:08 AM

I've had good results using the recipes from Rustic European Breads in my Zojirushi.  The recipes begin with a bread machine to prepare the dough which is then shaped and baked in a conventional oven.

Also note that Zojirushi has recently introduced a new model of their bread machine BBCCX20.  It doesn't appear to have any new significant features that would merit replacing my BBCCV20.  .  Does anyone have experience with the new model?

eGullet Amazon links for:Rustic European Breads and Zojirushi model #BBCCV20
Buying by using direct links (like those above) or by clicking the amazon links at the bottom of the page, help us bring you eGullet.com. Thanks for your support.

My ongoing lament. I wish they shipped to Canada :sad:
Marlene
cookskorner

Practice. Do it over. Get it right.
Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

#55 Anna N

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 02:03 AM

Anna,

Glad you're enjoying this bread as it's one of my favorites. I just tried a new recipe tonight. I think you will like this. Great sandwich bread. You might have to adjust the water a bit. I had to add a few teaspoons while kneading as it looked very dry. Also, I used instant yeast instead of active dry yeast - just use slightly less. Not sure if active dry yeast would work in a bread machine. Let me know if you try this.

Betty K. I have been out of circulation for a while due to a move to a new house. I have been baking bread two to three times a week though, since I moved, using the bread machine to do the kneading and the oven to do the baking and I am a total convert to this system. I have tried quite a number of recipes from white sandwich bread to multi-grain country-style breads and all have been outstanding. I will certainly try your "new" recipe and let you know how it goes. Thanks for your interest.
Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

"It either works fine or not, but what the heck. This is bread, not birth control." Susan of Wild Yeast blog
Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog
My 2004 eG Blog

#56 Marlene

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Posted 18 February 2004 - 05:13 AM

You can certainly use active dry yeast in a bread machine, although I tend to use the fast rising yeast, but either works well. And I'm in agreement with AnnaN, that kneading and rising the bread in the machine works well and then take it out and bake it in the oven makes for a nicer finished product.
Marlene
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Practice. Do it over. Get it right.
Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

#57 Rachel Perlow

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 04:56 AM

eGullet Amazon links for:Rustic European Breads and Zojirushi model #BBCCV20

Buying by using direct links (like those above) or by clicking the amazon links at the bottom of the page, help us bring you eGullet.com. Thanks for your support.

The Zojirushi model, linked above, is in my gold box again, another $20 off, now for $110.49. Check yours if you're interested, I don't see how much lower it can go. :wink:

Note: New ASIN number, so click the link in this post, not the one upthread. This one will show it on sale for $120, then check the gold box (but of course, there's no guarantee that it will be in there.

#58 Gale

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 06:22 AM

new to this forum ( have lurked for awhile) but I have to say - I gave away my bread machine a couple of years ago. I bought it thinking it would serve the purpose of fool proof ....proofing, so to speak.

At any rate, I make bread 2 - 3 times a week, some artisan, some just good old sammich bread, and don't miss the machine. Can't even see why I needed it.

Just my 2 cents. :smile:
Too bad that all the people who know
how to run the country are busy driving
taxicabs and cutting hair.

--George Burns


#59 Arey

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 07:25 AM

eGullet Amazon links for:Rustic European Breads and Zojirushi model #BBCCV20


Buying by using direct links (like those above) or by clicking the amazon links at the bottom of the page, help us bring you eGullet.com. Thanks for your support.

The Zojirushi model, linked above, is in my gold box again, another $20 off, now for $110.49. Check yours if you're interested, I don't see how much lower it can go. :wink:

Note: New ASIN number, so click the link in this post, not the one upthread. This one will show it on sale for $120, then check the gold box (but of course, there's no guarantee that it will be in there.

It cost me $50.00 a couple of months ago just to replace the pan in my Zojirishi, and that didn't even include new paddles. My Zo is over five years old so I didn't mind replacing the pan I also have the Rustic European Breads book and like it, and the Bread Machine's for Dummies book, which is also good but calls for all sorts of ingredients that you'll never have any use for in any other recipe.

I'll have to check my Amazon Gold box.
"A fool", he said, "would have swallowed it". Samuel Johnson


#60 sparrowgrass

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Posted 01 March 2004 - 07:52 AM

Arey, I just had to replace my pan too--it was so warped the paddles were scraping metal into the dough, and my machine is only 2 years old. I sure hope I don't have to do that again.
sparrowgrass





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