542 replies to this topic

[Magus]

Update

I took a coulple of weeks to think outside the box and it hit me. I live in the midwest...around farmers (somewhat) so why am I buying the main items that I sell...from a store.

I have contacted a few Potato farmers and building relationships with them. I am now getting a weekly Potato report that gives me market conditions of Potatoes and what they are selling for...yeah...I know....fun reading

I am also contacting some Cattle farmers as well...I figured since I will be buying in bulk anyway...I might as well go to the source.

[Timh]

Do these cattle farmers do their own slaughtering and butchery?

[Magus]

Do these cattle farmers do their own slaughtering and butchery?

One of the farmers does...the others send it out. They sell it by hanging weight. One of the farmers even does dry aged beef...that one is pretty expensive.

Just deterimining if this is the correct route to go.
The way the economy is...I could prob hire a butcher on an as needed basis.

Edited by Magus, 05 March 2009 - 02:15 PM.

[Timh]

I think buying a whole cow is overkill and wasteful. The cuts being used by the good burger makers are the chuck, flanken/short rib, sirloin, variously blended. What will you do w/ the rest of the animal? The most economical would be the by the specific cuts you choose to use.

[Magus]

I think buying a whole cow is overkill and wasteful. The cuts being used by the good burger makers are the chuck, flanken/short rib, sirloin, variously blended. What will you do w/ the rest of the animal? The most economical would be the by the specific cuts you choose to use.

Well after learning more from the Cattle farmers I would have to say you are correct. One thing I dont want is waste...of food or money. I will need to go outside my area to find a good butcher whome I feel I can trust.

[RAHiggins1]

I think buying a whole cow is overkill and wasteful. The cuts being used by the good burger makers are the chuck, flanken/short rib, sirloin, variously blended. What will you do w/ the rest of the animal? The most economical would be the by the specific cuts you choose to use.

Well after learning more from the Cattle farmers I would have to say you are correct. One thing I dont want is waste...of food or money. I will need to go outside my area to find a good butcher whome I feel I can trust.

http://www.halperns.com/home/home.asp

[gingerbeer]

i am probably commenting on ancient, resolved issues by now but i read the first half of this thread with fascination (i have a meeting now so nca't read anymore) and thought i'd offer up some of my opinions:

1. a trailer can be really cool. in fact, here in london there is an infamous chocolate trailer - Choco Star - actually it's really an old ice cream van - that travels around dispensing all amazingly delicious chocolately things (brownies, cakes, hot choc) etc, and is run by a chocolate maker who used to work with Pierre Marcolini. This van moves around all the time and looks like it could sell awful soft serve with stale flakes stuck in it, but it's become a legend, turning up randomly at farmer's markets, etc, and it's a business idea that's really worked. a permanent trailer for burgers has no less great potential.

2. looking at the menu you posted a while back, i think it is too much. why not just be simple and amazing? e.g. a burger, a cheeseburger, a mushroom/veggie burger, a chicken sandwich. there's something for everyone there and it cuts down the prep that you have to do. same with the shakes - choc, vanilla and maybe you could have one flavour that always changes?

3. i have a suggestion with the fries - i think beef tallow is the way to go, but also, perhaps you could be creative in seasonings? for example, nandos has a peri peri dry seasoning that it shakes on its chips and which elevates them to something wondrous, i've seen similar uses of dried oregano. you could offer double-fried french fries, and have some seasonings that you make up yourself that people could sprinkle on them if they like.

4. you could name your burger joint after your son.

Edited by gingerbeer, 06 March 2009 - 07:24 AM.

[Magus]

i am probably commenting on ancient, resolved issues by now but i read the first half of this thread with fascination (i have a meeting now so nca't read anymore) and thought i'd offer up some of my opinions:

1. a trailer can be really cool. in fact, here in london there is an infamous chocolate trailer - Choco Star - actually it's really an old ice cream van - that travels around dispensing all amazingly delicious chocolately things (brownies, cakes, hot choc) etc, and is run by a chocolate maker who used to work with Pierre Marcolini. This van moves around all the time and looks like it could sell awful soft serve with stale flakes stuck in it, but it's become a legend, turning up randomly at farmer's markets, etc, and it's a business idea that's really worked. a permanent trailer for burgers has no less great potential.

2. looking at the menu you posted a while back, i think it is too much. why not just be simple and amazing? e.g. a burger, a cheeseburger, a mushroom/veggie burger, a chicken sandwich. there's something for everyone there and it cuts down the prep that you have to do. same with the shakes - choc, vanilla and maybe you could have one flavour that always changes?

3. i have a suggestion with the fries - i think beef tallow is the way to go, but also, perhaps you could be creative in seasonings? for example, nandos has a peri peri dry seasoning that it shakes on its chips and which elevates them to something wondrous, i've seen similar uses of dried oregano. you could offer double-fried french fries, and have some seasonings that you make up yourself that people could sprinkle on them if they like.

4. you could name your burger joint after your son.

1.trailer is being made.
2. I plan to keep it simple. I would rather do a few thing great than do alot of things so-so
3. I have a beef tallow supplier and fries will be double fried.
4. I cant name the place after my sons they have odd yet common names. Kane & Miles just dont ring a bell for me for a burger joint.

[gingerbeer]

i am probably commenting on ancient, resolved issues by now but i read the first half of this thread with fascination (i have a meeting now so nca't read anymore) and thought i'd offer up some of my opinions:

1. a trailer can be really cool. in fact, here in london there is an infamous chocolate trailer - Choco Star - actually it's really an old ice cream van - that travels around dispensing all amazingly delicious chocolately things (brownies, cakes, hot choc) etc, and is run by a chocolate maker who used to work with Pierre Marcolini. This van moves around all the time and looks like it could sell awful soft serve with stale flakes stuck in it, but it's become a legend, turning up randomly at farmer's markets, etc, and it's a business idea that's really worked. a permanent trailer for burgers has no less great potential.

2. looking at the menu you posted a while back, i think it is too much. why not just be simple and amazing? e.g. a burger, a cheeseburger, a mushroom/veggie burger, a chicken sandwich. there's something for everyone there and it cuts down the prep that you have to do. same with the shakes - choc, vanilla and maybe you could have one flavour that always changes?

3. i have a suggestion with the fries - i think beef tallow is the way to go, but also, perhaps you could be creative in seasonings? for example, nandos has a peri peri dry seasoning that it shakes on its chips and which elevates them to something wondrous, i've seen similar uses of dried oregano. you could offer double-fried french fries, and have some seasonings that you make up yourself that people could sprinkle on them if they like.

4. you could name your burger joint after your son.

1.trailer is being made.
2. I plan to keep it simple. I would rather do a few thing great than do alot of things so-so
3. I have a beef tallow supplier and fries will be double fried.
4. I cant name the place after my sons they have odd yet common names. Kane & Miles just dont ring a bell for me for a burger joint.

i think kane & miles is actually pretty good! or your name & sons. sounds like a london restaurant from the 19th century.

[judiu]

i am probably commenting on ancient, resolved issues by now but i read the first half of this thread with fascination (i have a meeting now so nca't read anymore) and thought i'd offer up some of my opinions:

1. a trailer can be really cool. in fact, here in london there is an infamous chocolate trailer - Choco Star - actually it's really an old ice cream van - that travels around dispensing all amazingly delicious chocolately things (brownies, cakes, hot choc) etc, and is run by a chocolate maker who used to work with Pierre Marcolini. This van moves around all the time and looks like it could sell awful soft serve with stale flakes stuck in it, but it's become a legend, turning up randomly at farmer's markets, etc, and it's a business idea that's really worked. a permanent trailer for burgers has no less great potential.

2. looking at the menu you posted a while back, i think it is too much. why not just be simple and amazing? e.g. a burger, a cheeseburger, a mushroom/veggie burger, a chicken sandwich. there's something for everyone there and it cuts down the prep that you have to do. same with the shakes - choc, vanilla and maybe you could have one flavour that always changes?

3. i have a suggestion with the fries - i think beef tallow is the way to go, but also, perhaps you could be creative in seasonings? for example, nandos has a peri peri dry seasoning that it shakes on its chips and which elevates them to something wondrous, i've seen similar uses of dried oregano. you could offer double-fried french fries, and have some seasonings that you make up yourself that people could sprinkle on them if they like.

4. you could name your burger joint after your son.

1.trailer is being made.
2. I plan to keep it simple. I would rather do a few thing great than do alot of things so-so
3. I have a beef tallow supplier and fries will be double fried.
4. I cant name the place after my sons they have odd yet common names. Kane & Miles just dont ring a bell for me for a burger joint.

No, maybe not, but K & M Burgers sounds good to me!

[v. gautam]

Friend,

Please keep an eye on the price point. The break even cost is very important. Price out the lettuce: whether leaf, romaine or iceberg. Many people may prefer the last!

A very important point is being made here : http://www.nytimes.c...g/11cashew.html

I hope you take advantage of the accumulated experience & lessons from this story.


Regarding tomatoes, the SO-CALLED heirlooms packed in clamshells in the winter are garbage. There are the very expensive Florida Marmande-type tomatoes at better than $4/lb retail. Note that they will crush and deform very easily when sliced, so that when prepped on a mandoline, they they tend to disintegrate in a holding container. This is very important because you cannot be prepping onions & tomatoes during service.

Regarding MAYO, please try ADMIRATION BRAND

Product: GM100
Brand: ADMIRATION
Unit: 4 - 1 GALLON CASE
Per Case: $41.00
Per Piece: $11.30
4 GALLON TUB $25.50 / cs
http://www.chefsware...px?prd_id=GM100

Thicker than Hellman's, will hold better with tomato juice etc.

[Magus]

Twice fried fries

For this to be done...there are two options.
1.Have one fryer...pre fry all of the fries to be used. question. Can this be done the day before?
Does anyone know how long a blanched fry can sit?

2. Have two fryers at different temps. This cuts down on having to keep adjusting one fryer...but it does not solve the issue of how long to let the fries cool going from one temp to another.

Also..does anyone know if people blanch > Freeze > Fry

I am remembering my days at McDonalds...they would take the fries out of the freezer put them in fry baskets and let them sit at room temp

If so..I can fry the fries a day before I used them...then fry them for 2-3 min when I need them.

Frying equipment.
From what I can tell...most fryers have a termostat. You set it at a temp and leave it. This seems reactionary. If you drop a product into the oil, this drops the temp of the oil...sending this information to the thermostat and the thermostat turns up the heat automaticly. This does not make the fry oil consistant. I am still learning about fryers. If anyone can chime in on this one that would be great.

[Timh]

You can do the first fry and hold. But for safety sake it shopuld be in a refrig. We did this, laying them out on sheetpans stored on a speed rack in the walkin. I dont see the problem though w/ doing it to order, but like, 5 orders at a time, if your busy. Unless your doing steak fry size, the additional time is worth the final product. You can pre- cut your fries daily, stored in buckets of water.

Edited by Timh, 11 March 2009 - 02:01 PM.

[RAHiggins1]

You can do the first fry and hold. But for safety sake it shopuld be in a refrig. We did this, laying them out on sheetpans stored on a speed rack in the walkin. I dont see the problem though w/ doing it to order, but like, 5 orders at a time, if your busy. Unless your doing steak fry size, the additional time is worth the final product. You can pre- cut your fries daily, stored in buckets of water.

Yea fry ahead and pan off in a single layer, then after they are frozen you can move them to a larger storage container to keep during service.

[v. gautam]

If you are in the Midwest other than in the Dakotas or Colorado, the potatoes your neighbor farmers are growing probably will not be the best for fries. Please check what varieties they grow and then check again with the nearest State University Extension service AND the Crop Science department. You may also contact a specialist potato breeding program, e.g. Cornell University, for their advice on varieties for fries AS WELL on what geographical locations those should be coming from.

The quality of starch depends on many factors, including day and night temperatures, and humidity during the growing season. This is one reason why the Mountain West produces a "better" quality for certain purposes. Even Canadian Prince Edward Island Russets are not as good as the Idaho for many purposes.

Since you are aiming for the best quality in every thing, these are some pitfalls to be aware of.

[annarborfoodie]

Magus - since moving to the east coast, I have discovered "Five Guys Burgers & Fries", which I think was discussed at some point earlier in this thread. They are doing something very close to what you are trying for, including the twice fried french fries. French fries are my favorite food and I have tried them all over, and Five Guys are some of the best I have eaten. They are in the process of opening restaurants in the Detroit area. I would recommend going there and observing their french fry making process. I am a mystery shopper, and have shopped one of their restaurants several times, which includes checking to make sure the fry process is being done correctly. There are several steps and they seem to have it down to a science.

[sugarlove]

Hi Magus, I recall pming you last year but never received a reply. So, I'm going to direct my question at you again...as well as others who maybe able to answer.

Did you have the griddle custom made for the main event grill? I have a main event grill too that I purchased from Sam's Club and would love to be able to use it as a griddle sometimes. If anyone know where I can purchase or offer any assistance on having a griddle plate made for these grills I would really appreciate it.


TIA

[Magus]

Hi Magus, I recall pming you last year but never received a reply. So, I'm going to direct my question at you again...as well as others who maybe able to answer.

Did you have the griddle custom made for the main event grill? I have a main event grill too that I purchased from Sam's Club and would love to be able to use it as a griddle sometimes. If anyone know where I can purchase or offer any assistance on having a griddle plate made for these grills I would really appreciate it.


TIA

I am actually custom making my own equipment. now... I did use the event grill from sams. I just dropped 1/2 inch steel plate on it. It had to be cleaned and polished...something called pickling the steel. You can go to any Steel place...take your measurements and they should be able to provide this for you.

I started making my own equipment because I was tired of the shody equipment that was out there....and I also did not want to spend 2-4K on one piece of equipment. The only thing that I am working on now is a fryer....(this is a small business that grew out of necessity)

[Rob Babcock]

I really like the name you're using now, Magus. In a way it seems a shame to change it since you seem to have some good customer loyalty and an excellent reputation. I'm glad to see you're getting a new rig built, though.

[Magus]

I really like the name you're using now, Magus.  In a way it seems a shame to change it since you seem to have some good customer loyalty and an excellent reputation.  I'm glad to see you're getting a new rig built, though.

I am keeping the name No.9

[Magus]

Good Morning Everyone.

First, I hope everyone is in good health!

I purchased a van (used) it is running well. This will cut down on cost of renting a van and it is a great tax write off.

I am getting ready for the Ann Arbor Art Fair this comming week.
I cooked for a Track Team in Detroit this past weekend and everything went great!

I have decided to use twitter to keep in touch with my customers
This way I can give them quick updates as to special "Deals" and they can let me know how they like the food or what I can improve on.

Thats all for now.

I will never forget my egullet family

http://twitter.com/nineburgers

[Rob Babcock]

Nice to hear from you Magus! I was wondering how No.9 was doing!

[Magus]

Nice to hear from you Magus!  I was wondering how No.9 was doing!

Still Cookin!

I have been doing some research on duck fat. It seems like some put it in burgers and some use it for fries.

Has anyone tried either duck fat in burgers for duck fat fries? I have found a source for bulk duck fat. I have to admit, it is costly. about $75 for 30lb. I may have to try these myself before I make a final call .

[Shalmanese]

It seems almost cheaper just to render it from ducks than pay $75 for 30 lbs. I get easily 1lb of fat per duck plus, you get duck breasts and duck legs & duck stock (not to mention duck liver, duck gizzards & duck hearts) from the deal.

If you want to run a special on braised duck leg tacos, I guarantee you would sell out within an hour. The breasts, they freeze well and it's a great thing to whip out whenever guests drop by.

[Timh]

I would first figure the cost and the mark up on the final product. After all, its just a burger, and i doubt people will continue to pay more in this climate for something like a burger, even a really good one. I think duck fat would be overkill and not really add any more to the burger than just nailing your beef fat to meat ratio(30/70 imo). High quality toppings like bacon, cheese, sauces, etc. are where you cantake it to another level. And. the. Bun.

[tmdillon]

Twice fried fries

For this to be done...there are two options.
1.Have one fryer...pre fry all of the fries to be used. question. Can this be done the day before?
Does anyone know how long a blanched fry can sit?

2. Have two fryers at different temps. This cuts down on having to keep adjusting one fryer...but it does not solve the issue of how long to let the fries cool going from one temp to another.

Also..does anyone know if people blanch > Freeze > Fry

I am remembering my days at McDonalds...they would take the fries out of the freezer put them in fry baskets and let them sit at room temp

If so..I can fry the fries a day before I used them...then fry them for 2-3 min when I need them.

Frying equipment.
From what I can tell...most fryers have a termostat. You set it at a temp and leave it. This seems reactionary. If you drop a product into the oil, this drops the temp of the oil...sending this information to the thermostat and the thermostat turns up the heat automaticly. This does not make the fry oil consistant.  I am still learning about fryers. If anyone can chime in on this one that would be great.

I used to work for a bbq concept owned by two of the partners who own The Steak Escape chain of cheese steak and fry restaurants. We went through literally tons of fresh cut fries a week.
1. Yes you can blanch fries days ahead. In fact it's better that way as you don't want to try to start the final fry with product that is still warm/hot from the blanch stage. The quicker you get your blanched fries down to refrigerator temp the better. Not unlike blanching any vegetable.
2. If I remember we blanched at 310 degrees and fried at 350-375. The blanch time was around 1 minute 10 seconds but I may not be remembering that step 100% correct.
3. Cut and blanch as early morning prep so you don't have your fryers tied up later when they should be making you money.
4. We used a peanut oil in our fryers. Makes great fried food of all sorts but you need to post it clearly due to food allergies. We also could get it a lot cheaper from Sam's than from distributors.
5. The kind of potatoes is rather important. They only dig potatoes once a year and then store them for sale for the remainder. If they aren't stored properly the starch will start to convert to sugar and that will brown too early in the blanching process. Also the water content is important. Too low and you get mealy fries, too high and the fries will battle your oil for temperature control. Get a very good relationship with a local produce company that knows their stuff.
6. The thermostat on your fryer is your friend if it's working correctly. Yes it "reacts" but that's its job. You cannot be standing there frying, selling, cooking, and manually controlling the temp. It kicks off when it comes back to it's set temp. Just don't overload your baskets and you'll be fine.
7. When you change and clean your fryers save a cup or so of the old fat provided it isn't rancid or burned. Brand new oil needs a little help to get started on the flavor profile. That said I have no idea how that works with beef tallow.
Hope this helps.

[Magus]

Good morning my egullet Fmaily

I know...I know, long time no hear. Well, I just wanted to let you guys know what is going on.

As you all know I hit a couple of rough patches.
I am now recovered.
Business is still going great.

Progress.
Van...(check)
Big Cart, should be done by Early December.
Parking cart in Central Campus (location to be published soon)
Our location will be out every day (YAY)!
While first cart is being finished, second one is being designed...(different streets different plans) size wise.

Things I has no control over.
Put up a blog back in 2007...now it has a #1 googlel ranking. (dont ask me how) www.nineburgers.com
Will keep you all posted.
Oh...I also started the twitter and facebook thing...that is a lot of work...may have to hand that one over.

[Magus]

Hello All

I am back chasing my dream again. I wanted to let everyone know that all is well. It took al little while and had to scale things back a bit. Since the last time I spoke to you, My oldest son went off to college!...Wow, it has been a long time! Well. I finally have the spot that I want in Ann Arbor after mixing things up with the City and Health Department requirements.

[6ppc]

Hello All

I am back chasing my dream again. I wanted to let everyone know that all is well. It took al little while and had to scale things back a bit. Since the last time I spoke to you, My oldest son went off to college!...Wow, it has been a long time! Well. I finally have the spot that I want in Ann Arbor after mixing things up with the City and Health Department requirements.

So how goes? I too have been following this thread.

[Magus]

Hello All

I am back chasing my dream again. I wanted to let everyone know that all is well. It took al little while and had to scale things back a bit. Since the last time I spoke to you, My oldest son went off to college!...Wow, it has been a long time! Well. I finally have the spot that I want in Ann Arbor after mixing things up with the City and Health Department requirements.

So how goes? I too have been following this thread.

Hello All

I am back chasing my dream again. I wanted to let everyone know that all is well. It took al little while and had to scale things back a bit. Since the last time I spoke to you, My oldest son went off to college!...Wow, it has been a long time! Well. I finally have the spot that I want in Ann Arbor after mixing things up with the City and Health Department requirements.

So how goes? I too have been following this thread.

Its going well. Like I said...getting back into the swing of things. Spent a lot of time researching and coming up with new food ideas.