59 replies to this topic

[Pam R]

Agar-agar was discussed a little in the Homemade Marshmallow thread.

I know... but I never got a definitive answer on that thread about how they turned out... I intend on trying them soon.

Thanks for the link - these recipes are making me think about different ways to use it.

How do you make your mousses? I have always made a chocolate mousse (which doesn't se any gelatin, but I think the chocolate holds it together). But am concerned with fruit mousses that they just won't hold up.

[scott123]

I'm thinking about using agar for a glaze.

Is agar sensitive to salt like gelatin is?

Does the finished product have to be either blended or passed through a chinois in order to be smooth?

Does blending a gel thickened solution weaken the agar's ability to thicken?

[helenjp]

Agar will make a tougher, chewier "glaze" or skin than gelatin.

Salt will increase the pore size of the gel - it holds more water, but is more fragile (which may be a good thing in terms of mouthfeel, but I think you also run a greater risk of the agar gel weeping water as time passes).

[filipe]

I seem to have read somewhere that for replacing ordinary gelatin for agar-agar I should use half the amount of it (ex: 10g gelatin = 5g agar-agar)

Is this true or am I dreaming?

[Tweety69bird]

I don't have any solid info for you, but I think you're on the right track. Agar-agar is quite powerful compared to gelatin. Have you done a search for info on eGullet? There is deffinately more info on that here.

[Tweety69bird]

And read here under the cooking section Wikipedia

[Tweety69bird]

And lastly....here
Hope these help you!!

[Sethro]

Ineed to make vegan panna cotta.
Anybody have a ballpark conversion ratio for gelatin to agar?

Also, any thoughts on simulating the creaminess? I was thinking of thicken up soy milk with lecithin or methcel. Anyone have a notion as to which would provide the creamiest mouth feel?

[xdrixn]

you'd be better off with carrageenan.

[Sethro]

you'd be better off with carrageenan.

Never used it. Is it cold soluble? How much should I use?

[Pontormo]

Is this a common vegan dessert? Have you considered using coconut milk instead of soy?

I realize that a panna cotta is like a flan or custard, but lighter without the egg, but for me at least, the dairy element is crucial because flavoring elements are usually minimalistic as well: a little bit of vanilla or citrus. Accompaniments such as fresh berries and a light sauce provide the principal flavor.

I'd be tempted to do without dairy substitutions and work simply with fruits and gelling agents, perhaps combining something light such as key lime with a contrasting, intense element. Maybe try almond milk.

However, I realize that we might have different tastes and I hope you'll document your efforts and ultimate success, especially since vegan diets have been of interest to a few eGullet members. Certainly, there is a lot of interest in Kosher meals as well.

Edited by Pontormo, 12 February 2007 - 11:14 AM.

[tangaloor]

I would test this recipe out with different types of "milks" before committing to soy (or a particular brand of soy). The flavours are very different from milk to milk; you could even try a homemade cashew milk, which can be very nice and isn't really much work, just a lot of blending depending on the amount. Make sure to strain it well for something like this. Coconut milk is easy and known good.

I'd also recommend combining the agar with another type of setting agent, cornstarch or arrowroot or something. That will up the 'creaminess' as it interacts with the set of the agar. Xanthan gum could be another option. I find agar sets a bit differently to gelatin--more 'grainy'.

The best gelatin-y set I've ever come across was in konyakku based candies from Japan, but I've never come across a source or instructions for the raw ingredient.

As for equivalencies, I can never remember this and usually look it up on google each time. Something like 1tb flakes: 1 cup liquid. Search for "kanten" recipes. It's different for the different forms of agar--bar, powder, flake. Let us know how it turns out for you!

[xdrixn]

you'd be better off with carrageenan.

Never used it. Is it cold soluble? How much should I use?

start at 1%, only the iota and kappa gel, remember so burns easily...hydrate n water first

[beccaboo]

You could try almond milk--I make blancmange with it, scented with a bay leaf, and is't pretty good.

[Sethro]

Thanks for some interesting advice. Soy is actually the intended flavor--I guess I forgot to mention that.
My first test run is going to be with arrowroot (thanks for reminding me I have that) and agar. If that isn't serviceable then I'll get some carragenan.

I prefer agar powder...I don't suppose anyone has a flake to powder conversion handy...

[helenjp]

From Japanese recipes, 4g to 400 or 500ml soy milk or a mix of soy milk and water. Sugar was minimal, and you want a creamier feel anyway, so you would need to play with those proportions.

I much prefer a product called Ina-agar, produced by Ina Shokuhin Kogyo (Ina Food Industry). It contains both agar and konnyaku (konjac, devil's tongue root) plus other starches, and makes a much creamier jelly - made soft, pure agar jelies tend to have a "crumbly" texture. Usually 10g powder to 500ml soy milk/water.

Kanten-pappa website Ina-agar A (unsweetened) and Ina-agar L (lightly sweetened) are 3rd and 4th items down the page respectively. The Ina-agar A I have is sweetened, so older product may contain sugar.

Edited by helenjp, 13 February 2007 - 03:12 AM.

[tangaloor]

Just noticed that there is an agar panna cotta in Heidi Swanson's new cookbook, Super Natural Cooking.

[schneich]

try the "vegetarian gelatine" made by Sosa

[the_nomad]

OK, so as recommended yesterday on the "multi-day tasting menu" thread, I've been trying to make up creme de cassis pearls using agar-based spherification (dropping into cold oil).

So far, I've tried 125 ml of creme de cassis, and .5g of agar, which didn't sferify in the cold oil. I then added another .5g of agar or so, dissolved at near boiling temperature as usual, but the result still isn't gellifying. Even if I put a very small quantity in the freezer for a bit, it doesn't form a gel, implying that there's something chemically wrong.

Anyone got any insights as to what could be happening? I got my quantities from recipes which looked similar in the Khymos "Hydrocolloid" book, but they could be wrong for creme de cassis. Any ideas?

[alexandra]

Hi Fellow Egullet members,
Wondering if any of you have had experience working with agar agar. This weekend I attempted to make marshmallow and had two flops - despite having read the very long thread on marshmallows. It all boiled down, I think, to improperly using agar agar.
The first time I melted it in cold water using a 1:1 ratio ( that is substituting agar for gelatine ) and I used Michael Recchuiti's yummy recipe. It set up, but was totally flat, so I consider this a failure. The second time I tried it, I tripled the agar agar and poured it in the boiling syrup, using the Nightscotsman recipe ( no egg whites ). It looked great in the pan, then I slowly poured it into my kitchen aid bowl and what a disaster!!!!!!!!!!!!! It started to set up, almost burned out my mixer and destroyed my bowl and whisk...after 10 minutes to my horror I had to literally dig it out with an aluminum spoon...it was like rock. Obviously that did not work. So I am back to square one. When would you suggest I add the agar? And how much liquid should I use to boil it to get it to gelatinize?
Thanks for ANY help or ideas you can send my way. I have committed to make 200 marshmallows by this Thursday for 20 stores I am test marketing. I'm in a bit of a sweat!!!
Alexandra

[alexandra]

Eureka! I think I figured it out. I decided to go back and use Michael Recchuiti's recipe for marshmallows. This time I just substituted gelatine for agar agar using the same ratio. Before I added the

gelatine

as he suggested, I heated the agar agar in 3 T of water in the microwave for 1 min 100% power. When the syrup reach 250 degrees, I added the agar in placeof the gelatine, ( it bubbled up, but did not volumize 4-fold as he said the gelatine would ). Nevertheless, I added it to the beaten egg whites and voila, yummy yummy marshmallow!!! Beautiful. Now....waiting for them to set up..... will let you know in 24 hours how they do! Wish me luck!

[tangaloor]

Elizabeth Falkner gives a vegan marshmallow recipe in Demolition Desserts, using xanthan gum rather than gelatin. Haven't tried it yet, but she does make some fine desserts...

[alexandra]

Thanks! I'll check it out and let you know how it turns out :-)
Also found a source for fish gelatin, which I understand acts exactly like traditional gelatin. Once I receive it ( I had to buy 2 lbs! ) I'll make the recipe and post m results here.

[ermintrude]

Have you a link to using xanthan gum.

From my experience it does not set, just get different degrees of slime with enough sheer force. Would love to see the recipe

[alexandra]

I found an alternative to regular gelatine - I am using fish gelatin. But the Bloom is 250 as opposed to 180 bloom which is called for in recipes. Since I am using the fish gelatin with the bloom of 250 should I reduce the amount of gelatin called for in my recipe? I am making marshmallows.
THANKS!!!

[Toufas]

Hello, is it possible to make agar spheres with a different feeling? Let's say the famous spherical olives, can i have a smaller sphere of red pepper jus inside it?

[Toufas]

Anyone? And I meant filling!

[KennethT]

You wouldn't use agar to make spheres with a liquid filling... For that, it's better to do reverse spherification using sodium alginate in a calcium bath of some kind. Probably best to make a sphere of pepper jus. Then using an ice cube tray or something, add the olive sphere base about halfway up the mold. Freeze... then add pepper jus sphere and more olive sphere base to top of mold. Freeze again. Drop frozen "spheres" into warm calcium bath for a few minutes? As the warm bath defrosts the sphere, it will gel the outside. Then, when you have removed and rinsed, the sphere can full defrost leaving a sphere within a sphere.

[Tri2Cook]

Are you asking if you can put agar "pearls" inside a spherification? If so, yes. If you're wanting to put a liquid sphere within another liquid sphere, I wouldn't be surprised if someone has done it but I haven't and I'm not sure what the best way to go about it would be. It seems like freezing a sphere in a liquid then doing a spherification with that would work initially but could lead to some syneresis issues once all of the liquids have thawed. Unless maybe one of the spherification methods is more freeze/thaw stable than the traditional sodium alginate version.

[ermintrude]

Could always do a divided alginate sphere