70 replies to this topic

[Bux]

Admin: Since espresso in the City is generally of a poor quality, and since those of us who would like to enjoy a good shot every so often might like to know about where to go, I've split some posts from the NoHo Barista thread to create this one. Please chime in with NYC's best. - slk

PS and off-topic, I had a visit to Via Quadronno the other day.  What an espresso.  I wanted to drink five.

PPS and also off-topic.  Years ago I read that there actually is a great barista somewhere in the east village--part of the .01%?  Does anybody know where s/he is?

Could be the shop on the west side of First Avenue about 11th or 12th Streets. My understanding is that they're also the agents for Danessi. I've had good coffee (espresso) there.

[phaelon56]

That is most likely Ninth Street Espresso (formerly known as Higher Grounds). Yes they are the real deal.

I have not yet tried Joe the Art of Coffee on Waverly but have heard positive reports from people whose opinions I trust. I can personally attest to the fact that Gimme Coffee does a great job with espresso - at their original/main Ithaca store just a month or two back I had the best machiatto... possibly the overall best espresso drink of any kind... that I've ever had anywhere.

It's a schlep for you Manhattanites but they do have a store in W'burg.

[anguso]

I think the place being referred to is actually Tarallucci e Vino, on the NW corner of 10th St. and First Ave.
They are the distributors for Danesi, and rumor has it they're opening another place somewhere around Union Square.
They make a pretty good espresso, and good pastries/panini too.

[phaelon56]

I think the place being referred to is actually Tarallucci e Vino, on the NW corner of 10th St. and First Ave.

Ahhhh - thanks! Just checked a map - 9th Street Espresso is way over at the corner of Avenue C but I'm told that it's worth the hike.

[Bux]

Obviously 9th Street Espresso and Tarallucci e Vino are two separate places. They're far enough away from each other not to be competing, but it would be intersting to read a comparison.

[ned]

Well we seem to be getting pretty far off-topic here but I'm ready to offer a comparison between these two places as I hit Tarallucci e Vino today and 9th Street Espresso yesterday.

I'm an espresso fiend so I can't speak to what happens at either place when they dilute their coffee with milk products and sugar and spices and things. I asked the barista at 9th street to make me his best espresso whatever that was. He offered a triple ristretto. I said ok. The proportion was good. Temperature, good. Flavor, a touch bitter. Crema very dark. Mouthfeel, just about right. Chewy, nice oil extraction. To my mind, either his beans are over roasted, a little over the hill, or there was too much coffee in the basket. Too fine a grind maybe. . . probably not that. Hell I don't know. All I can say is that the coffee was a touch bitter and the crema too dark. (maybe this is a common characteristic of the triple ristretto? Couldn't say.) Today's espresso was a single made by a less skilled barista with Danesi coffee. It was smoother. Nice crema, lighter body--a little too light I think. Too hot and the volume was a touch off, which would account for the thinness of the pull. On the balance though I think it was a nicer drink than the triple ristretto. Not that one should expect either to be as I described on a future visit. Espresso is a fickle bride, anemic and bitter one day, unctuous and full-bodied the next.

I'll go back to both of these places whenever I'm nearby. Both take coffee seriously and you are likely to have a good experience at either. 9th street vibes like a Seattle joint (this coming from a native Seattleite) It's nice to let somebody else do the pulling from time to time.

Edited to add that in my limited experience, neither is as good as Via Quadronno.

I've been spending weekends on the North Fork of Long Island this summer. There's a fellow named Aldo who has a cafe in Greenport. He's an artist with the coffee. Buys green. Roasts right there in the shop. Works the machine from 7am through the day taking time off to make the best scones anybody ever ate. Worth a visit. Don't expect to catch him in a good mood though.

Edited by ned, 04 August 2005 - 09:56 AM.

[phaelon56]

Obviously 9th Street Espresso and Tarallucci e Vino are two separate places. They're far enough away from each other not to be competing, but it would be interesting to read a comparison.

Obvious yes but not immediately so to me when I responded to the original comment.

I'm inclined to think that the bitterness of the triple ristretto at Taralucci was more an artifact of roast style than anything else. It could also be from overextraction of the fines from too fine a grind setting but that seems less likely.

Years ago I read that there actually is a great barista somewhere in the east village

I'm not well versed in the current exact demarcation that separate various areas in Manhattan and in my mind the lines that define Alphabet City, LES and the East Village have gotten fuzzy (but probably just in my mind as I so rarely get down to NYC these days).

Interesting comparison and I'll have to try both places.

[slkinsey]

Any restaurants make an espresso that doesn't suck?

[Daniel]

My favorite espresso in NYC is at Al Bustan.

[Todd36]

Casse Croute Tribecca, on West Broadway, just south of Chambers. Make sure Sophie makes your coffee (she is not always there). It's very clear that technique is critical.

Edited by Todd36, 04 August 2005 - 10:51 PM.

[phaelon56]

Any restaurants make an espresso that doesn't suck?

In NYC? I've always assumed the answer is that they all suck. But Todd36 has piqued my curiosity. It seems tragic to me that Caffe Reggio on Bleecker Street, the location of the first commercial espresso machine ever installed in the US (yes it is still on display!), has seriously bad espresso.

Elsewhere in the US? Very doubtful. I'm still waiting to hear what they're doing for espresso service at Alinea in Chicago but thus far no reports.

[slkinsey]

Casse Croute Tribecca, on West Broadway, just south of Chambers.  Make sure Sophie makes your coffee (she is not always there).  It's very clear that technique is critical.

Interesting comment, Todd. I suppose it is true that technique is critical. But what baffles me is that the technique is also incredibly easy to master, at least up to the "doesn't suck" level, and even up to "damn good." It certainly didn't take me a lot of training to make better-than-I've-ever-had-in-America espresso on my Rancilio at home, and I don't exactly dedicate a great deal of energy to maintaining or refining my technique. So, what this tells me is that making good-to-very good espresso, assuming good raw materials, really comes down to three things: keeping the machines properly maintained and calibrated, giving the staff some kind of minimal training and, most important of all, making sure that the staff actually cares.

I got an espresso recently at Regional that, while not as good as I make at home, was good enough to be in the top 1% of NYC restaurant espresso.

[rstarobi]

I'm not the coffee afficionado that some of the above posters are, but I've had some great cappucino at Egidio's in Arthur Ave.; I imagine their espresso would be at least at the "doesn't suck" level.

[Todd36]

I actually think that who makes the coffee is critical. I eat out frequently enough in the same places where I can see the person operating the machine to conclude that technique is critical. I live on the upper west side and frequent several cafes. For example, the coffee at La Fortunia is quite good, but only when this one guy from Columbia the country makes it. For people with home machines, I'd be curious to see what would happen if you bought a can of Bustelo...I wonder how bad it would be...maybe not as bad as you think, my guess is that with technique it would be decent coffee. I've also noticed that high end restaurants have good coffee, meaning say Jean Georges. In a lower price range, try Cafe Trotsky on Orchard Street, they use Meinl coffee and its good.

And you thought I could only give odd opinions of Japanese restaurants and bizzare circular arguments....

[ned]

Any restaurants make an espresso that doesn't suck?

It's been so long sice I've been there I guess I forgot. . . the Neue Gallery's restaurant Cafe Sabarasky which is a cousin of Wallse in the west village makes a nice espresso. Interestingly, they always serve it with a small glass of sparkling water to be drunk after the coffee. It's a nice tradition--an Austrian one for those not familiar with Wallse and Sabarsky--the fizzy water wipes the oily coffee off the tongue leaving the drinker sharpened in mind and fresh in mouth.

[Todd36]

Any restaurants make an espresso that doesn't suck?

It's been so long sice I've been there I guess I forgot. . . the Neue Gallery's restaurant Cafe Sabarasky which is a cousin of Wallse in the west village makes a nice espresso. Interestingly, they always serve it with a small glass of sparkling water to be drunk after the coffee. It's a nice tradition--an Austrian one for those not familiar with Wallse and Sabarsky--the fizzy water wipes the oily coffee off the tongue leaving the drinker sharpened in mind and fresh in mouth.

They also use Meinl coffee ....whice is not that expensive nor that fresh....which makes you wonder about certain things...I like their coffeee as well.

[Todd36]

71 Irving Place also seems to have pretty good coffee.

[Avumede]

Try Casa, which I blog about here:

http://dresese.thehy...ves/000430.html

The barristas, as usual, vary in quality, but the overall quality level is very high.

[henryjunior]

71 Irving Place also seems to have pretty good coffee.

unfortunately, i find the place too bitter. it has some of the most bitter coffee, employees and regulars. cute place, otherwise, with a nice choice of delivered pastries. the food is grossly overpriced. in general, irving place is probably one of the most beautiful streets, err places, in the city. however, irving 71 is overrated.

Edited by henryjunior, 23 August 2005 - 11:02 PM.

[henryjunior]

Edited to add that in my limited experience, neither is as good as Via Quadronno.

I thoroughly enjoyed my espresso *but* was a bit shocked that my bill came to $15. granted, i should have been paying attention to the prices. i got a triple followed by a double and nearly had a quadruple. nice smooth cup but inconsistant. excessively, attractive establishment. a great place to grab an expen$ive espresso when you find yourself on the upper east side (near the park.) the food looked pretty nice. bready/doughy croisants a la southern italian style.

Edited by henryjunior, 23 August 2005 - 11:05 PM.

[henryjunior]

I'm not the coffee afficionado that some of the above posters are, but I've had some great cappucino at Egidio's in Arthur Ave.; I imagine their espresso would be at least at the "doesn't suck" level.

sure it's on arthur ave, and as such probably has a legacy to live up to (which it didn't for me.) it looks like something that would popup in a touristy part of italy. just about the nicest thing i could say is that it doesn't suck so that was an apt description. on 4 separate occasions i was totally unimpressed. felt cool being there but the drink wasn't special to me.

Edited by henryjunior, 23 August 2005 - 11:07 PM.

[henryjunior]

That is most likely Ninth Street Espresso  (formerly known as Higher Grounds).  Yes they are the real deal. 

'here-here' so far i have to say that ninth street espresso (between ave C and ave D) is the best espresso i've had in the city, by far. and it's consistantly good. and the prices are great. and the staff is friendly. it's where it is, the east-east village. so it's outta the way and has a distinct crowd. quite frankly though, it's much more in line with the spirit of an espresso bar than anything i've seen on the island. definitely give this place a try, it's well worth the trip.

nice article on 'where to find' decent brews:
http://www.nydailyne...6p-280918c.html

I have not yet tried Joe the Art of Coffee on Waverly but have heard positive reports from people whose opinions I trust.  I can personally attest to the fact that Gimme Coffee does a great job with espresso - at their original/main Ithaca store just a month or two back I had the best machiatto...  possibly the overall best espresso drink of any kind...  that I've ever had anywhere.

It's a schlep for you Manhattanites but they do have a store in W'burg.

still haven't made it out to gimme but i am told it's the real deal. can't wait to go.

now, joe -- that place is just super over hyped. they have a press machine spewing out noise but i can tell you it ain't worth the attention it gets. sure, it's above average but you'd think it was the best cup in the city. it's not. ninth street espresso is the best i've found. if i'm mistaken, someone please enlighten me. i'm always down to try a new spot.

[ned]

Strike me down. . .

I had a respectable espresso (albeit served in a paper cup) at the Whole Foods Cafe that` overlooks Union Square. I wouldn't go out of my way for it but when you're in need of a shot, it's head and shoulders better than anywhere else in the area.

[phaelon56]

Edited to add that in my limited experience, neither is as good as Via Quadronno.

I thoroughly enjoyed my espresso *but* was a bit shocked that my bill came to $15. granted, i should have been paying attention to the prices. i got a triple followed by a double and nearly had a quadruple.

henryjunior - nice to see you here and your insights are truly appreciated. Could I posisbly have read that correctly? A double espresso and a triple espresso came to almost $15? Here in my little town a double is generally $1.75 to $2 and a triple (only at Starbucks as most places just offer singles or doubles) is about $3.

We offer a quad - two ristretto doubles - for $2.50. I've been in pricey and upscale restaurants where espresso (admittedly not very good quality) was overpriced but still cheaper than the prices you mentioned. Even in Manhattan that seems really, really steep.

[alacarte]

Another vote here for Irving 71, as well as for Whole Foods on Union Square (I was surprised by that too)

I also like the espresso at the belgian Leonidas chain, Klatch on Maiden Lane in the financial district, and the Mangia chain.

[henryjunior]

The last thing I wanna do is recommend an Illy product (not my favorite) but heck this is interesting.

According to my recent issue of Food Arts on Thurs, Sept 15 Illy is opening some boutique outlet in SoHo for a bit to teach chefs, etc more about coffee and espresso.

more info here:
http://www.illyusa.c...lleria_illy.htm

they are also selling this machine for a "deal" geared at offices:
http://illyusa.com/illyofficeespresso/

but i read here that the above machine is a piece of crappola (figures):
http://www.coffeegee.../general/151470

[henryjunior]

yep, the restaurant i mentioned really is asking well past the "proper" price for an espresso. i personally think it's greedy. sure, it's quite good but not worth that kinda loot -- they take advantage imho.

to be fair, i once had my uncle ask me to buy him a coffee at a hotel bar in nyc while he ran up to his room to retrieve something. when he came down i handed him what was a $10 coffee -- so i suppose that really was my first incident of coffee bean related cardiac arrest.

if u wanna find a good deal on beans in nyc checkout puerto rico trading company. they have a few spots around town. unrelated, i noticed they also served as a background set for a gov. pataki commercial -- not surprising, it's been in biz for over 100 years -- quite the successful NYC biz.

Edited by henryjunior, 13 September 2005 - 08:31 PM.

[phaelon56]

but i read here that the above machine is a piece of crappola (figures):
http://www.coffeegee.../general/151470

The Pasquini Livia A90 is actually not a bad machine but at its current online retail price of about $1,500 there are far better choices. As a matter of fact you can get machines as good or better for under $1,000. But the units that Illy was shipping to many people on this deal were "factory refurbs" that were said, in some cases (this is anecdotal to me - I did not buy one), to either be faulty because they weren't really refurbed or had other issues. But the Livia is not inherently a "bad" machine.

if u wanna find a good deal on beans in nyc checkout puerto rico trading company

That would be Porto Rico - they have a store on Bleecker and one elsewhere in town. Ehhh... beans not so fresh there unless you hit it lucky. They keep them in big open barrels (exposure to air = not a good thing) and no one on staff (at least when I was there) could ever tell me the actual roast date of anything they had in stock. I wouldn't buy beans for espresso there but for cheap prices on beans to use for drip coffee - they're not a bad option if you happen to pick a bean that's fresh enough.

But back to the real topic at hand: the best espresso in NYC.

Based on a tip I read here at egullet (where else?) I tried Casa this weekend when I was in the city on a visit. It's on 9th Ave, west side of the street three doors north of 40th. There's a spices/olives/Mediterranean specialty foods guy next door and the Sea Breeze Fish Market is on the corner.

Not sure when they open on weekdays but on Saturday they opened at 9 AM. I ended up spending my entire morning there quaffing at least three double ristretto's, a short cappuccino and a machiatto. They are really doing it right. Not sure if it's the best in NYC as I have not yet tried some of the other suspects on the list but at the very least... they must be in the top 3 - 5. BUt it is the best espresso I've ever had in NYC. For sure.

The owner Mike was running the shop. As it turns out... the real name is Casa @ Cupcake Cafe. Mike and his wife own the Cupcake Cafe Bakery a few doors down 9th on the other side of the street (corner of 39th IIRC). He did plenty of research, chose his machine carefully and has a limited menu - one small "to-go" size for cappa's or Americano's (no regular drip coffee served), and either a ten oz cappa cup or a 2 oz demitasse for espresso. He also sells some baked goods from his bakery and has a double waffle iron for some darn good fresh made waffles.

Lots of crema and a smooth flavor profile. Yes... there was a hint of bitterness but I think that's a characteristic of the blend (he's using La Coulombe at the moment). Mike is a very engaging guy and truly has a passion for the bean. They have a similar set-up (La Marzocco two group machine and a Swift grinder) at another store they operate on 18th Street but he admits that quality there can be hit or miss contingent on what barista is working (as mentioned in the original thread reference to Casa - the British guy Andrew is the one who should make your shots if you really want the goods - otherwise go to 9th Ave and see Mike).

Mike also mentioned that during his search for a bean supplier he talked to Intelligentsia Roasters of Chicago (or to someone selling their beans). That interaction resulted in someone from Elephant and Castle on Greenwich Street visiting his shop. Ostensibly they are using quality beans and have a rigorous barista training program and process control.

By chance have any of you been there and if so did you try the espresso or perhaps a cappuccino?

[cakewalk]

Thanks for that post, phaelon.

I live in the neighborhood and often pass by there on a weekend, usually as I'm going to or coming from somewhere else, and keep meaning to stop in but ...

I always wondered how they could get away with callling themselves the Cupcake Cafe.

I'm an old coffee drinker but an espresso newbie, so that sounds like a good place to start. Probably this weekend.

[Avumede]

Funny, I always thought the owner Mike is the weakest of the barristas there. However, I've only had his cappucino, so perhaps his espresso is excellent. I know they are religious over there about cleaning and maintaining their espresso machine.