151 replies to this topic

[stovetop]

thanks lancelot
that is where I know them best is from Wholesale, so then they are fully wholesale now??

[jayhay]

I've decided to make OSSO BUCO (for the first time), for a dinner party on Saturday night. Any special places to go for veal shanks, & should they be ordered ahead?

I've printed out Mario Batali's recipe from FoodTV, & Tony Bourdain's recipe from Epicurious...can't decide.

Any favourite recipes out there?

[Coop]

Cioffi's almost always has beautiful, well priced veal shanks.

Season and brown the shanks, remove from pan add diced carrots, fennel, and onion, brown, then add slivered garlic. deglaze with red wine, reduce by 1/2, add enough meat stock and tomato puree to cover. season with salt and pepper. Add whole stalks of favorite herbs, sage, rosemary, thyme, etc.

Cook for two to three hours. Meat should just about fall from bone. Remove shanks, reduce sauce. Strain if you want it elegant or leave vegetables in for rustic look. Finish with a gremolata of chopped lemon zest, parsely and raw garlic. Taste sauce and re-season before serving on a bed of creamy polenta.

[stovetop]

Nice work coop!
steve

are you a pro chef??

[nwyles]

For the love of humanity , STRAIN , STRAIN , STRAIN !!!!!

[Coop]

Stovetop, No I just portray one on the internet.

[Coop]

You could always strain out the solids and then finish with blanched vegetables or mushrooms.

[stovetop]

Stovetop, No I just portray one on the internet.

Love the character!
steve

[DameD]

Just a note that Columbus Meats on Renfrew have great veal shanks and is generally a good butcher

[Keith Talent]

You could always strain out the solids and then finish with blanched vegetables or mushrooms.

I can't beleive I'm going to allow myself to be drawn into an actual conversation about food...

Disposing of the cooked vegetables may help make the dish more elegant and refined, but for the home cook I think doing this and replacing them with less cooked versions of themselves is well sorry, no offense, kinda pretentious. And certainly wasteful. In my opinion, rustic is superior to refined in a home kitchen. Different crieteria are used judging a dishes merits at home vs. a restaurant.

One of the things that's cool about dining at someones home opposed to a resaturant is that things are less formal, to try to recreate a Lumiere version of osso bucco at home seems strange.

Damnit, re-reading above I see I'm having a problem articulating my objection. Maybe something to do with amatuer food preperation should be more about good times with loved one rather than chefly tricks of the trade?

Screw it, I'm not getting my objection down. Forget it, lets leave my last word at the vegetables should be left in because they taste damn good, almost completely melted into a rich beef tomoto sauce.

Now someone pass the gremolata please.

[Coop]

I believe both options (to strain or not to strain) are viable. Myself I would not strain unless the sauce needed to be de-greased. I may add some olives at the end as well.

[nwyles]

Keith - it is OK. You are getting your point in. I'd be happy to eat it either way as long as I did not have to cook, and I had a glass of wine in hand !

Why anyone would want to replace boiled carrots, onions and celery in a sauce with some fresh mushroom or other fresh vegetables is beyond me. And wasteful ! At least $2.00 worth of carrots, onion and celery !

Forgive me , I am just teasing you as I have a few minutes on my hand.

Seriously though, I think you would want to remove the fat and make more of a demi glace than a gravy to enjoy this .

[capers]

Keith
"Disposing of the cooked vegetables may help make the dish more elegant and refined, but for the home cook I think doing this and replacing them with less cooked versions of themselves is well sorry, no offense, kinda pretentious

Maybe something to do with amatuer food preperation should be more about good times with loved one rather than chefly tricks of the trade?"

Well I'm going to disagree with you. I've done it both ways and in my opinion vegetables cooked for that length of time have basically given up their flavor and don't have much left to give so I don't think it has anything to do with being pretentious. As far as calling it amateur food prep being more about good times rather than "chefly tricks" that's just bull! I am an amateur but I also know what tastes good.

[jayhay]

As I said, I've not made Osso Buco before, but neither the Batali recipe nor the Bourdain recipe call for straining the vegetables out.

Could be they were just making the recipe more user friendly for the masses....

Oh....and I AlWAYS make sure my dinner guests "have a glass of wine in hand "....makes everything taste SO much better!

Edited by jayhay, 25 August 2004 - 07:59 PM.

[DameD]

Disposing of the cooked vegetables may help make the dish more elegant and refined, but for the home cook I think doing this and replacing them with less cooked versions of themselves is well sorry, no offense, kinda pretentious. And certainly wasteful. In my opinion, rustic is superior to refined in a home kitchen. Different crieteria are used judging a dishes merits at home vs. a restaurant. 

Gotta say I am totally with Mr. Talent on this, I think if you went into some italian countryside, there would not be someone with a sieve, taking out all the goodies that do melt in you mouth and do get sopped up with some crusty bread. At a restaurant it always tastes different than at home. Both good! Ok now i will be off to the butchers buy some veal shank.. ok tmorrow morning. though i will be thinking about it all night! why do i look at egullet at night..

[Chef Fowke]

But what about textures...

The mirepoix has done its duty, their are no flavours or nutritional value left in the overcooked, limp, insipid carrots, celery, leek or onions.

Take an average osso bucco and add in some great texture to compliment the flavour and complexity of the dish. Use some pearl onions, roasted garlic and small button mushrooms that have been sautéed until tender with a little lardon, deglazed with a simple sherry and added back into the dish.

And of course, fresh herbs are always added in the final 5% of cooking to retain their natural oils and aromas.

And, as a young man in France, what would the chef have feed his staff if he did not remove the mirepoix from his osso bucco, stocks, and consommés? That’s what us dough heads got for dinner, and where very thankful.

[nwyles]

You forgot to add the he would add 10 liters of water to it, call it soup, give you crusts of yesterday's bread and then you could thank him for his kindness.

And for dinner the next day, carrot peel soup !

Yum, and gritty too.

[Chef Fowke]

You forgot to add the he would add 10 liters of water to it, call it soup, give you crusts of yesterday's bread and then you could thank him for his kindness.

And for dinner the next day, carrot peel soup !

Yum, and gritty too.

Ah, the memories of eating garbage to survive....

[Daddy-A]

You forgot to add the he would add 10 liters of water to it, call it soup, give you crusts of yesterday's bread and then you could thank him for his kindness.

And for dinner the next day, carrot peel soup !

Yum, and gritty too.

Did they turn the fat you trim off the top of stocks into a yummy pate?

[nwyles]

You would put it in the cooler and let it harden and use it as butter for you bread on special days.

Yum , butter !

Edited by nwyles, 25 August 2004 - 11:44 PM.

[stovetop]

Remember it is Italian not French, the French just have to puree everything; what I will do is put some more veg at the end so it is not fully disintegrated.
steve

[Chef Fowke]

I put a call in this morning....The Merguez Sausage should be here in a couple of days, it is in the style of Toulouse. Coop, I will PM you when it gets in...

...It's here!

It arrived in a plain white wrapper.
Must talk to Neil, I will bring it by HSG tomorrow so we can taste it.

Oh My God, It's like Christmas!

[Daddy-A]

...It's here!

It arrived in a plain white wrapper.
Must talk to Neil, I will bring it by HSG tomorrow so we can taste it.

Oh My God, It's like Christmas!

You are cruel! First you tempt us with pastrami ... now this!!!

I need a sandwich dammit!

Arne

[Chef Fowke]

As I said, I've not made Osso Buco before, but neither the Batali recipe nor the  Bourdain recipe call for straining the vegetables out. 

Could be they were just making the recipe more user friendly for the masses....

Oh....and I AlWAYS make sure my dinner guests "have a glass of wine in hand "....makes everything taste SO much better!

Great point!!

Restaurant standard for making osso bucco would see the meat simmered for 5 - 7 hours while a home version would have the meat boiled for a few hours.

...after just a few hours of cooking the vegetables would still remain editable, while in the longer method all that is left is a stringy mess.

I forget that most people do not have a kitchen brigade of 50 and a clean-up crew of 10 with 100's of thousands of BTU's burning and all day to prepare misen place.

[stovetop]

Chef Fowke do you lean more to French then Itilian style foods??
steve

[Chef Fowke]

Chef Fowke do you lean more to French then Itilian style foods??
steve

Prairie Canadian!

...okay, French was my training.

[stovetop]

Chef Fowke are we as Canadian Chefs finally getting something we can call Canadian Cuisine, for me I notice varied differences in style depending where you go in Canada, Vancouver definitely has regional styles but are we just becoming an ethnic cuisine style or are the kids backgrounds that come from all over really becoming Canadian, they are born here so that makes them Canadian thus Canadian cuisine??

When we Canadians are trained by Canadian Born chefs working with Canadian products does not that make Canadian Cuisine???

We have so much world influence in Vancouver, but yesterday I was digging back in the postings and it is strange to read all those critical posting by all the Critics, they come to Vancouver and approach the scene with rose colored glasses, like are we New York, Montreal, Seattle, LA; No we are not, we are Vancouver, the public here has very different needs and are not into the what is hot and what is not scene, we in the restaurant business in Vancouver have a very big cost factor so we must survive, to do so we have to meet the needs of the market, not the whims of the trendy, to do so will inedible be your demise because the trendy change.

Something similar is peoples hardness in trying to analyze Hawaiian food, god what the hell is someone trying to use New York as a base to criticize something, remember people NEW York is almost bigger then all of Canada, you can have the most finite of concepts and you will find a market, 1% of 13 million is 130,000 that is almost bigger then Van proper, you can not serve small Markets in Vancouver, you have to accommodate the locals, I am sure in Hawaii it is the same, but they have a huge tourist market so I am sure they have to accommodate them. Hawaii is Hawaii not New York, if you want something to be like New York then stay home and eat their, or open your mind and try something different, then learn and build a base of knowledge then the critics can adjust their parameters then can be critical, otherwise in my opinion you as the critic are not objective?? (Subjective)??

[Chef Fowke]

Chef Fowke are we as Canadian Chefs finally getting something we can call Canadian Cuisine, for me I notice varied differences in style depending where you go in Canada, Vancouver definitely has regional styles but are we just becoming an ethnic cuisine style or are the kids backgrounds that come from all over really becoming Canadian, they are born here so that makes them Canadian thus Canadian cuisine??

When we Canadians are trained by Canadian Born chefs working with Canadian products does not that make Canadian Cuisine???

We have so much world influence in Vancouver, but yesterday I was digging back in the postings and it is strange to read all those critical posting by all the Critics, they come to Vancouver and approach the scene with rose colored glasses, like are we New York, Montreal, Seattle, LA; No we are not, we are Vancouver, the public here has very different needs and are not into the what is hot and what is not scene, we in the restaurant business in Vancouver have a very big cost factor so we must survive, to do so we have to meet the needs of the market, not the whims of the trendy, to do so will inedible be your demise because the trendy change.

Something similar is peoples hardness in trying to analyze Hawaiian food, god what the hell is someone trying to use New York as a base to criticize something, remember people NEW York is almost bigger then all of Canada, you can have the most finite of concepts and you will find a market, 1% of 13 million is 130,000 that is almost bigger then Van proper, you can not serve small Markets in Vancouver, you have to accommodate the locals, I am sure in Hawaii it is the same, but they have a huge tourist market so I am sure they have to accommodate them. Hawaii is Hawaii not New York, if you want something to be like New York then stay home and eat their, or open your mind and try something different, then learn and build a base of knowledge then the critics can adjust their parameters then can be critical, otherwise in my opinion you as the critic are not objective?? (Subjective)??

This is good....

we need to move this and start it as a new thread....any moderators around?

[Daddy-A]

Chef ... how was the merguez?

I was going to drop in on you guys today ... but there was this lunatic yelling at a tow-truck driver ....

Just PM'd Fat Guy about the moderator ... seems we don't have one, so we'll see what he has to say.

Arne

[Chef Fowke]

Chef ... how was the merguez? 

I am walking over right now to see Neil...should be eating in the next 30 minutes!