151 replies to this topic

[perfumekev]

Perfumekev thank you for your info. Lets say one were to distill there own gin would this be close to the proper measure of herbs for fine genever

juniper 20g
coriander 8g
angelica root 1g
calamus root 0.25g
bitter almonds 3g
cardamon 0.125g
grains of paradise 1g
or
juniper 10g
coriander 12g
cassia 0.6g
angelica root 0.5g
calamus root 0.6g
bitter almonds 1.2g
cardamon 0.05g

the second formula sounds more like a genever taste. However you have to remember that much of the flavor of genever comes from malted grains giving it more of a wiskey effect.

[M.X.Hassett]

What would you think would be a good amount of malted to add to the second formula.

Edit: or would the malt be added to the mash. (sorry I'm an amateur still with distillation. NOT THAT I EVER WOULD IT IS ILLEGAL HERE)

Edited by M.X.Hassett, 07 November 2005 - 12:57 PM.

[perfumekev]

Zuidam is available in Chicago (as is Damrak).  Mr. Wondrich is on board with Damrak as an acceptable sub for Bols Genever.  Anyone know how Zuidam Genever compares?

Also, the galfriend is going to have access to the Duty Free shop at O'Hare on Monday.  I have no idea if they'll have Bols Genever but, if so, is there a particular style that works best  in the "Improved Holland Gin Cock-Tail"?  It's my understanding that there are three styles made, "young", "very old", and "Corenwyn".  It strikes me as unlikely that Duty Free will have more than one style, if any, but if forced to choose, which should she grab?

Thanks.

Kurt

[edited to add Bols question]

Bol's Damrak is an exelent replacement for Bols jonge genever I tatsed them side by side and found them to be very comparible however the Damrak was a little more fresh with just a touch of lemon. I like it a little bit better than the Bol's jonge.

Keep on e-mailing and writing the genever producing companies. Let's get some more genevers over here. All they want to know is that we are intereseted
so thier distributors will pay to stock the products for the U.S.

[perfumekev]

What would you think would be a good amount of malted to add to the second formula.

Edit: or would the malt be added to the mash. (sorry I'm an amateur still with distillation. NOT THAT I EVER WOULD IT IS ILLEGAL HERE)

I'm not a distiller so I don't realy know. I think the malting process is done to the grain and then the whole thing is added into the mash!

[perfumekev]

Zuidam genever gin is available in Chicago, and it's spectacular.

Zuidam Genever is now avalible in N.Y. It is truly exelent! They also make a dry gin that blew my socks off. Go to the website for Zuidam U.S. then call and talk to Richard Ward he is very nice, extremly knowledgable about these products and he is very helpfull.

[Rob Simmon]

I recently got a bottle of the Boomsma Oude Genever, and can't taste any juniper in it at all. Am I missing something, or do I have a bottle of a young wheat-based whiskey?

[perfumekev]

I recently got a bottle of the Boomsma Oude Genever, and can't taste any juniper in it at all. Am I missing something, or do I have a bottle of a young wheat-based whiskey?

Boomsma genever is one of the poorest repersentations of genever, it doesn't even taste like it. One of my relatives sent me genever from 7 diiferent distillers in young and old varieties from the neatherlands and they are all better than boomsma.

zuidam
bols
bokma
wanwees
dekyuper
and many more

[trillium]

Looks like a company here in Portland, House Spirits, is going to release a genever style gin this month.

"Medoff and Krogstad have several other releases planned, including their own line of gin, which is due out sometime this month. It's modeled after the traditional Dutch style liquor known as Genever -- a strong herbaceous, juniper-flavored gin -- and is similar in viscosity and style to gins such has Magellan and Hendrick's. "

Full story on local spirits production here in one of the worlds most annoying newspaper websites (you've been warned).

regards,
trillium

[perfumekev]

I'm finding a lot of press info on the internet but no official web site for Portland House, Spirits. The Medoff Vodka has a small web site. does any one have info on how to get ahold of this company. They definately sound interesting and I would like to get some of thier poducts to the east coast.

[stickyii]

Keep your eyeteeth, and take a jaunt to Pennsylvania.  We've got it.

I've gotta pick some up to try in Baker's Death in the Gulf Stream.

Which exact brand have you found? I did a few searches on the PLCB website and came up with nothing.

[perfumekev]

Keep your eyeteeth, and take a jaunt to Pennsylvania.  We've got it.

I've gotta pick some up to try in Baker's Death in the Gulf Stream.

Which exact brand have you found? I did a few searches on the PLCB website and came up with nothing.

the vodka web site is at www.medoeff.com they have a distributor in Oregon.

[perfumekev]

Keep your eyeteeth, and take a jaunt to Pennsylvania.  We've got it.

I've gotta pick some up to try in Baker's Death in the Gulf Stream.

Which exact brand have you found? I did a few searches on the PLCB website and came up with nothing.

the vodka web site is at www.medoeff.com they have a distributor in Oregon.

sorry, that's www.medoyeff.com

[perfumekev]

Keep your eyeteeth, and take a jaunt to Pennsylvania.  We've got it.

I've gotta pick some up to try in Baker's Death in the Gulf Stream.

Which exact brand have you found? I did a few searches on the PLCB website and came up with nothing.

the vodka web site is at www.medoeff.com they have a distributor in Oregon.

sorry, that's www.medoyeff.com

I traked down one of the retailers of medoyeff vodka. They put me in contact with Christian Krogestad of Portland House Spirits. Very pleasanat person . Sure enough they are planing on launching quite a few new spirits including genevers. They are working towards getting N.Y. distribution. I think they are definately a group that should be closely watched. They are planing on doing some pretty unique things. I for one am deffinately interested.

[eje]

I'm not quite sure how close this product is to a wide release, as I believe they did the debut at WhiskyFest San Francisco.

But, the other day at The Alembic Bar in San Francisco, I got to try some of Anchor Distilling's new Genever Style Gin, Genevieve.

They are actually brewing the "beer" from which they make the Gin at Anchor. If I remember the label correctly, is a blend of Rye, Barley, and Wheat.

Very nice stuff. You really get the young whisk(e)y flavor and body in this Gin.

Reading David Wondrich's "Imbibe!" right now, and hearing that Jerry Thomas actually meant "Hollands" Gin for many of his recipes, this product comes at exactly the right time to try some of those formulations.

I can't wait to try an Improved Hollands Gin Cocktail with it.

Hopefully we'll be seeing it in stores soon.

Edited by eje, 31 October 2007 - 03:18 PM.

[thirtyoneknots]

Hopefully this will have similar pricing and distribution to Junipero? Count me excited. I always feel like I'm missing out on something when I use the only thing available, Boomsma.

-Andy

[eje]

I talked to a local liquor store and they checked into the Genevieve. Apparently the CA distributor (Young's Market) has it available and at this point it is just a matter of getting it out to the stores.

The price should be about the same as for Junipero.

I'm off now to go pick up a bottle.

Woo!

[eje]

One interesting note of trivia from David Wondrich's new book, "Imbibe!":

The terms Jonge and Oude Genever refer to two different styles of making Genever.

While the Oude may or may not have some actual barrel age, the main difference is that the Jonge is made from Grain Neutral Spirits and the Oude must include some malt wine.

Jonge Genever was not invented until some time during World War I.

So, to follow through, the proper Genever (or Hollands) to make 19th Century Cocktails with, must be the Oude.

edit - grammar.

Edited by eje, 13 November 2007 - 02:08 PM.

[Amev]

One interesting note of trivia from David Wondrich's new book, "Imbibe!":

The terms Jonge and Oude Genever refer to two different styles of making Genever.

While the Oude may or may not have some actual barrel age, the main difference is that the Jonge is made from Grain Neutral Spirits and the Oude must include some malt wine.

Jonge Genever was not invented until some time during World War I.

So, to follow through, the proper Genever (or Hollands) to make 19th Century Cocktails with, must be the Oude.

edit - grammar.

Actually, according to Wikipedia it was in World War II that the Jonge Genever style was born. Due to limited amounts of grain being avaible to make malt wine the amount of malt wine in Genevers dropped drasticly. After the war was over production of this 'new' style Genever continued as 'Jonge' Genever and Genever according to the old recipe was being sold again as Oude Genever. The truely original 100% maltwine Genever wasn't avaible at all anymore.

Another story about Jonge and Oude Genever styles comes from the website of Rutte & Zonen. One of the better Genever producers of Holland. On their site is a story that says the invention of the column still in (I believe) 1831 later brought upon a change between Oude and Jonge Genever. Where the jonge was made with a high percentage of neutral grain alcohol from column still distillation and the Oude being made mainly with malt wine.

After economical recess in the 70's the Genever industry tried to win back some credit by beefing up the minimal quality requirements for Genever. Also more truely old style Oude Genevers were being made again and nowadays van Wees sells up to 20 year oak cask riped Genever.

On another note. Yesterday I picked up a bottle of Rutte Twaalf (Twelve) Oude Genever and made a cocktail based on the Brandy Apricot Frappe recipe, with lemon juice added to the concotion.

I made it like this:

- 2,5 cl Rutte Twaalf
- 1,5 cl van Wees Apricot brandy
- 1 cl Rutte Amandel (almond liquer)
- 1 cl Lemon Juice

It was quite tasty! I'm not done tweaking it yet though. And it needs a name :)

[thirtyoneknots]

So last week I came across something called Schlichte Steinhaeger Gin which is from Germany, comes in the distinctive neckless cylindrical crock bottle that Genevere comes in, and to the taste is spot on for descriptions of Hollands Gin that I've read (only one I've actually had is Boomsma). Soft botanicals on a funky, malty base, though it's no sweeter than, say, Tanqueray. Only 40% abv, but also under $20/bottle.

Does anyone know this product and/or know if it is an appropriate analogue for Hollands Gin?


-Andy

[pziemba]

I picked up a bottle of Genevieve at a liquor store in west LA while visiting there from New York last week. I've been anticipating this for some time and haven't seen it yet on my recent trips to Astor or Warehouse (though I got to try some at PDT back in January).

I haven't tasted any of the other Holland gins out there, as I've read that the only one available in America isn't that great, but I really like Genevieve so far. The gin botanicals are evident in the nose and especially the finish, but the sweetness of the base spirit brings a whole new dimension to it - a revelation for this gin lover who's only had dry gins until now. It seems to be great for drinking straight (strong, though), and a martini with a bit of noilly prat and a dash of fee's orange bitters was enjoyably different.

I'm really looking forward to trying some of Imbibe!'s recipes with this. Does anyone know when this will be available in NYC stores?

[eje]

[...]
I'm really looking forward to trying some of Imbibe!'s recipes with this. Does anyone know when this will be available in NYC stores?

Some of this is second hand, so don't know entirely how accurate it is.

It is my understanding Anchor made the Genevieve as an experiment about 10 years ago. It sat in their warehouse in stainless, without them really having an idea what to do with it.

I have my suspicions about what (or who) prompted them to finally dust it off, but they really didn't have very much of it (~700 bottles.) They also didn't expect there to be much demand at retail, and planned to just sell the batch off to restaurants and bars. I read a couple press things, where they said they thought it would be too confusing for customers if they had two gins on the market.

I believe it has proven rather more successful than they thought it would be, leaving them in the position of trying to figure out what they did and if they want to try to reproduce it again.

I, for one, certainly hope they do.

[slkinsey]

So, it was more of a limited-edition thing? Mostly for the California market?


That sucks... I thought they were really going to start making the stuff.

[phlip]

I've been calling my rep and threatening his life daily if he doesn't get me some of the junipero G soon. He swears it "in route". Today he said it was supposed to arrive by the end of this month but its looking more like early April, but it is on the way.

[eje]

If you're interested, I'd suggest emailing the info email address on their contact page.

I know from personal experience that the distiller, sales, and marketing people do read and respond to messages sent to that address. Heck, I've even gotten messages from Fritz Maytag himself.

It's not like we're talking about Pernod-Ricard or Diageo here...

[Scotttos]

RE: Genevieve

If you don't mind paying pretty high shipping costs. . . .. . https://www.vintagew...esurl/pid_10802

I ordered from here a few months back and it went off without a hitch. Looks like they are now limiting how many bottles for purchase per person (2).

It's good (strong) stuff. I asked Dave what he thought about it at one of his astor center talks and he described it as "a little hot." Wasn't sure if that was an endorsement or not : ) It does however make a damn fine Improved Gin Cocktail, something unlike I've ever tasted.

Edited by Scotttos, 26 March 2008 - 07:38 AM.

[Bricktop]

Wow. If I had known Genevieve was so hard to find, I would have bought more of it.
I hope I don't have to ration it now.

[bostonapothecary]

Wow.  If I had known Genevieve was so hard to find, I would have bought more of it.
I hope I don't have to ration it now.

i'm really into this anchor steam genevieve stuff... i drank some of it straight last night... (most sippable "gin" ever...) the nose was beautiful with interesting warmth... malty and reminded me of tea leaves in a way... the taste is beautiful, mellow, and delicate. the juniper is rather delicate and more or less melts into the other flavors rather than contrasting them.

i need to figure out how to get me a supply of it...

eastern standard's "fifty-fifty" with equal genevieve, M&R sweet + a dash of angostura orange(?)... is well worth a trip across the city... the simplicity of this thing makes so many other drinks look over engeneered... i also don't think the increased botanical extract level of my own vermouth would make it look as good... this was light on its feet with eerie exoticism...

so this stuff supposedly uses the same botanical formula as junipero but does it have the same level of extracts at the beginning? same forground different background? whats going on here?

[eje]

I was chatting with the manager of a local liquor store that carries the Genevieve and he said he's seen pretty strong demand for it. It's a small boutique type liquor store, and he's sold around 48 bottles since it came out in November.

He also told me that they released a second batch of it packaged in a new darker bottle. I hadn't been aware of that. He was under the impression that the second batch had been a new distillation, but didn't know for sure. He said he hadn't heard anything about them discontinuing the product.

Inquiries to Anchor Distilling garnered a response, but nothing particularly informative.

To my question, "Do you plan to pursue continued production and expanded distribution or was this a one off?"

They replied, "Quite frankly we aren't sure what the future holds for Genevieve."

[campus five]

So here's what I found today:


It's like the rare gin gods had it in for me today. And both were pretty cheap.

[gfron1]

I have a friend who wants a bottle of Bokma - which I would love to gift to her. I can't seem to find it in any US liquor stores. Has anyone found it in the US?