122 replies to this topic

[andiesenji]

I have been shopping for a range as well. As far as down-drafts go, all I have seen is Jenn-Air. My in-laws have a 20+ old Jenn-Air with down draft and it works better than more up to date stove with an under-the-cabinet microwave vent.

Is putting in a vented hood an option? I current have an electric stove and like I said a microwave "vent" that just spits all my smoke back in the room. I typically take the batteries out of my fire alarms when doing any high heat cooking 

I am looking at putting in a gas or dual-range electrolux with a ventahood. I am going to put a whole in the wall and vent outside. The total cost for this will probably be around $3600 based on the quoted I received.

Range: $2600
Hood: $600
Installation/Carpentry/Plumbing: $500

I was also looking at the GE Cafe, but I have been swayed towards the Electrolux. I like the features, and the design. I have also heard that the Cafe is not built well. Does anyone else have any pros/cons between these two?

1. 30" Dual-Fuel Built-In Range with Wave-Touch™ Controls (EW30DS65GS)
2. GE Cafe™ Free Standing Dual-Fuel Range Model#: C2S980SEMSS

Also what about all gas vs. dual fuel? Is is worth the extra $100 bucks for the dual range?

I know one person who got the new Electrolux Dual-Fuel 30 in range last September and immediately had problems with the oven - apparently the wiring harness for the probe had a flaw and caused the oven to shut down at odd times, even when the probe was not being used. After several service calls he gave up and returned the range and got a Jenn-Air that has two ovens. I thought it sounded odd but when I saw it, I was impressed. So far it has worked out great. He got a good deal at Pacific Sales $1540. for the range, delivered and installed. I don't know where you are located but a lot of places are hungry for customers so you have plenty of leverage right now.

[Special K]

I can't do gas or dual fuel because putting in a gas line is too expensive, and I don't want a glass top because I often use heavy cast iron pots and I'm clumsy. I can't do a vent hood because the range goes under a window. (Not too picky, am I?)

I've been looking at Jennair, but the only one I see that would work for me has the downdraft down the middle of the cooktop, rather than in the back, as my current Dacor does. I don't want another Dacor (been very unhappy with the current one). I'm thinking that the downdraft down the center will take up valuable real estate. So, does anyone know of another brand of slide in electric with the downdraft across the back? Thanks.

(edited to remove a stray comma)

Edited by Special K, 03 March 2009 - 10:21 AM.

[Dave the Cook]

What size is your cutout? 30", 36", 42"?

[barbhealy]

When we bought our house 5 years ago it still had the JennAire cooktop which had been installed when it was built in 1987 with a center downdraft. I hated that thing -- you could actually SEE the smoke going UP into the room rather than down the draftvent so when 2 burners gave up the ghost (on xmas eve, of course) we immediately replaced it.

We WANT a gas cooktop but aren't planning to install a gas line until we redo the kitchen (next year?) so we put in a GE Profile glass/ceramic cooktop, again with a center downdraft, that we paid around 1k for at the end of 2007.

(Unfortunately, I didn't do enough research because I HATE GLASS COOKTOPS! They are so sensitive to scraching and discoloration that the only cookware you can use is something with a very smooth flat bottom like All Clad. So, ours is scratched and dirty after only one year.)

The GE downdraft works better than the old JennAire's but we STILL have grease spatters on the fridge, which is about 4 feet from the cooktop, whenever we fry anything, and both the grill and the filter need to be washed afterwards or the whole kitchen smells of what ever was last cooked. The installation people told us we needed to start the downdraft about 10 minutes before turning on the burner but 1) I rarely remember to do that and 2) when I do, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

The center downdraft does prevent me from using a 14" pan on those burners but so do the center control knobs in the front. I think a rear mounted downdraft would be just as bad.

The bottom line FOR ME is that the downdrafts just don't work. Our last house had a Viking range and hood and although the hood was filthy, the house never smelled and all the grease was on the hood, not the stove or the rest of the kitchen. I will never agree to a downdraft again, ever.

Why don't you look into those new-fangled hoods made of glass? There are some really innovative designs available that you might be able to use in front of a window. Does anyone make one that's retractable -- you pull it down when you need it? ANYTHING to avoid a downdraft....

Edited by barbhealy, 07 March 2009 - 12:22 PM.

[tsquare]

(Unfortunately, I didn't do enough research because I HATE GLASS COOKTOPS!  They are so sensitive to scraching and discoloration that the only cookware you can use is something with a very smooth flat bottom like All Clad.  So, ours is scratched and dirty after only one year.)

We bought a house with a Kenmore glass cooktop range in good condition. After 2-1/2 years of heavy use, lots of cast iron frypan and dutch oven cooking, it looks just like it did when we moved in, except for a few nicks in the white enamel surround. We use Cooktop Magic when needed, but generally just a wet cloth to clean it up after cooking. A breeze! Ours is gray with black burner areas.


Special K:
On the downdraft issue - could you install a cooktop with a separate down draft behind? This would allow you to get a higher quality vent by Best, Broan, DCS, Viking, or Zephyr. Ether install an oven below (tricky to find the right combo) or in another location at a better elevation. Since you did not specify, I am guessing you have a standard 30" wide space. Maytag is the same as Jenn-Air by the way. Not much choice for electric plus downdraft.

KitchenAid has a smoothtop cooktop with integral downdraft vent.

[Special K]

Special K:
On the downdraft issue - could you install a cooktop with a separate down draft behind?

Thank you, TSquare. I was away for a while and just saw this today.

I just got back from Albert Lee ("Major appliances since 1936") and after backing and forthing with a very knowlegeable salesman (I hope), I decided on the downdraft slide-in JennAir electric with the burner cartridges (It comes with the grill assembly, which we probably won't use, because we use the Weber outside in all kinds of weather, but that's OK). Yes, it would be nice to go for a higher quality vent, but money and logistics make the JennAir the better choice for me. The oven is much larger than my current Dacor, and it has "MultiMode" convection. I think I'm going to be happy with it (I loved the JennAir I had years ago).

I got a pretty good deal, I think, because I also bought a new dishwasher (Miele Inspira). These two items, plus the refrigerator I bought a year and a half ago, are all I'll need for a while (Wait! Is that the microwave making funny noises now?)

[gfron1]

Bucking the advice of folks in this thread, I went ahead and bought a Maytag Precision Touch 750 Series because Sears is the only stove seller in our town and I assumed service would be easier to come by. Well, just as previous commenters have said, just three months after the warranty expired the oven died on me. If this is such a common problem then me thinks I smell a rat! Anyway, the service person is on their way to charge me more money. Where's the class action lawyer when you need them?!

[LindaK]

Since I wanted a good broiler  I opted for Gas throughout as opposed to a dual fuel range.  These two ranges had the best broilers I had seen and I think both were equal in this regard.

A good broiler is one of my priorities, too. Is yours an infrared? I've been assuming that's the best available for a non-commercial range.

All of the burners are dual ring, sealed, will go from a 140F simmer to 17,000 BTUs (natural gas).

What is a "dual ring" ?

There was a little discussion on another thread about the Blue Star range series (the new non-commercial brand name of what used to be Garland). On paper, it's still tops on my list, but I've yet to see one in person. Up to 22,000 BTUs. I once had an old Garland, still the best range I've ever used, so I'm very intrigued. Not cheap, but less than Wolf or Viking.

So three and a half year later, I can report that I finally had the courage (and money) to do my major kitchen renovation and that the star of the kitchen is indeed the 36" Blue Star. Love the 22,000 BTU star burners. Love the 140 BTU simmer burner. Love the infrared broiler. Am learning to love the convection oven, that's taking a little practice. It's been about six months now and I'm still pinching myself.

[ErikaK]

I am going to be replacing my slide in gas kitchen range very soon (as soon as the tax man gives me my refund!), I found a few models in my price range (about 2500 all in)... any advice??

I looked at the KitchenAid Architect II, which looks great & has the features I want (convection, 2 stage burner) and some added cool features like bread proofing & different convection settings. But, I've seen mixed reviews.

Also interesting, costing less than the KitchenAid, is a Frigidaire, I think the Professional model, that also has convection.

Saw 2 different models of the Kenmore Elite (one of them had the 2 stage burner and one did not), both convection.

Anyone have any experience with these ranges?

[yimei]

Hi

I need recommendations for oven brands. I’m in need of a new wall oven. My old oven, an ariston, is now dying and I require a replacement. I’m eyeing a Miele but its price is rather .. on the steep end. Do you guys know of any? i have space for one that's about 60cm, thanks.

I'm also in singapore.. which might limit my brand options.

[kbjesq]

Hi

I need recommendations for oven brands. I’m in need of a new wall oven. My old oven, an ariston, is now dying and I require a replacement. I’m eyeing a Miele but its price is rather .. on the steep end. Do you guys know of any? i have space for one that's about 60cm, thanks. 

I'm also in singapore.. which might limit my brand options.

I finally broke down and bought Miele ovens and after a short honeymoon period, I have NOT been happy with them.

The self-cleaning feature is the worst of any oven that I have owned.

The broiler in the top oven works only when it's in the mood.

Periodically, the computer keyboard breaks down, in which case the stupid thing just beeps and beeps until I either the repairman gets there or I pull it out of the wall. Also the built-in temperature probe is totally off . . . .

I also have the Miele built in microwave/combo oven and I have had similar problems with that. My DH broke the glass microwave tray and Miele charged $225 to replace it . . . .

On the plus side, the built-in rotisserie in the wall oven is a nice feature and works well as long as you don't put more than 4.5 lbs of food on either rotisserie rod.

Form over function, that's my opinion of Miele.

I don't know if you can get Kitchenaid in Singapore but I have had 3 sets of Kitchenaid wall ovens over the years, and never had a bit of problem with any of them. I wish I could trade my Miele ovens for my old KA.

Good luck to you - don't be swayed by the good looks of the Miele products and the hype. The emperor has no clothes!

[mukki]

I went into a kitchen design store and they did not recommend Miele ovens. Stated that Miele is great at cleaning (dishwashers, washers), but not at other tasks.

[Marlene]

there was a Miele wall oven in our house when we bought it. I couldn't rip it out of the wall fast enough. It seriously sucked as an oven.

I've had two kitchenaid wall ovens and loved them both. I have a Dacor now, but I don't really think for the price they are any better than the KA. I have Kenmore Elite at the cottage and it works very well. I have the model with the small oven on top and a regular sized oven below. The small oven comes in quite handy.

[Jesikka]

I'm looking at 24 inch ranges right now and looking for recommendations. I rent my apartment and my landlord will be paying the freight (or at least as much of it as I can convince him to cover), so aga/viking/wolf/blue star, etc. are probably out of the question. Anyone know anything about 24 inch ranges between say $800 and $2000?

Your advice is much appreciated.

[jmolinari]

You're paying to replace the stove in a rented apartment? ??

[Veena]

Has anyone used Bosch ovens? I am considering the 24- and 27-inch single wall ovens in their 500 and 300 series, but was wondering about performance and reliability of Bosch ovens in general.

Veena

[sng sling]

Hi

I need recommendations for oven brands. I’m in need of a new wall oven. My old oven, an ariston, is now dying and I require a replacement. I’m eyeing a Miele but its price is rather .. on the steep end. Do you guys know of any? i have space for one that's about 60cm, thanks. 

I'm also in singapore.. which might limit my brand options.

When we lived in Singapore, we had a single Miele oven in our apartment (Ardmore Park). It was so good, that when we moved back to the USA, we spent an embarrassing amount of money to install a double cavity Miele convection oven. Other than the pain of the initial price, we love it. Gives us restaurant quality grillng (broiler) for fish, and is very quick to preheat.

[baroness]

Has anyone used Bosch ovens?  I am considering the 24- and 27-inch single wall ovens in their 500 and 300 series, but was wondering about performance and reliability of Bosch ovens in general. 

Veena

I've had a Bosch range for several years and am very happy with its performance - including the oven.

[cbread]

I have a single Bosch convection wall oven. The performance of everything is excellent with the glaring exception of the broil which is rotten. If the broiler were even average, I'd sing it's praises, but the broil is useless. So weak I just don't bother. I bought a countertop toaster oven to get some broil power.

[Veena]

Cbread, could you post the model number of your Bosch?

Veena

[cbread]

Veena,

As best I can tell, it's a Bosch Wall Oven HBN 445A UC or it's a HBL 445A UC. The uninformative brochure lists 21 model numbers and I was able to narrow it down to two.

[elfin]

The "Oven Issue" is holding up any renovations. I would love a double wall electric oven-the self clean operation is the motivation factor. Old house/ crappy electrical prevents electric ovens so I am stuck with a gas oven. Do the new ones really have a decent self clean option? I did not think that the gas oven temp could get high enough to zap the crud off clean. Does anyone know of any worthy gas wall oven? I do like the broil function with gas better-as close to a salamander as one can get in residential kitchen.

[Robert Jueneman]

It's been about 10 years since we remodeled the kitchen in our house in Provo, UT and I still miss it here in California.

The star of the show was a big Viking gas cooktop in the center island, with the 24" griddle and four burners, with a huge range hood overhead -- rounded edges, not Viking -- maybe Thermador?? It had a huge 12" air duct, and a 24" fan mounted on the outside of the house. The grease traps were removable, and could be put in the dishwasher. I absolutely loved the range and griddle -- no problems at all. The grills could be dropped in the dishwasher, and the slide-out drawer caught all of the spills before they got baked on. 110% pleased, no, make that 120%.

Two stacked Gaggenau electric wall ovens with pizza stone and rotisserie -- also 110%. After my mother singed her eyebrows with an explosion back in the '50's, I don't think I ever want a gas oven!

The original cooktop (on the opposite side of the island from the sink???) I ripped out and replaced with a glass one -- I still HATE glass, after three of them -- but it gave me four more burners. There was a built-in microwave (good) with an integrated range hood (completely useless) over that cooktop.

The dishwasher was a Bosch, and it broke a couple of times -- not so good.

The side-by-side refrigerator/freezer wasn't big enough to hold all of the "refrigerate after opening" bottles and jars that seem to accumulate. Ideally, refrigerators should be about 9 inches deep, and about a mile wide. I certainly will never buy another LG refrigerator -- the one I have now has shelves that bow too much, and the water filter sprang a leak and ruined the carpet in the next room.

I'm presently designing a house I hope to build in a year or so, and I plan to incorporate those lessons, plus some new ones:

1. There has to be room for at least two and perhaps three commercial 10 liter rice cookers and PID controllers for cooking sous vide. I'm not convinced the Poly-Science circulators are worth the extra money and space, but if I win the lottery, I suppose I could be persuaded. Because I don't relish hauling 10 liters of water around, I need a sink nearby so I can drain and refill them periodically, using a hose. An overhead shelf would hold the PID controllers, and separate 20-amp circuits for each cooker is essential. In fact, a separate electrical sub-panel just for the kitchen would be a nice idea.

2. In addition to the griddle and four burners, one or two of which must support a nice simmer, I also want a very high-heat commercial-grade wok ring and burner -- maybe 24,000 BTU? A built-in deep fat fryer would also be nice.

3. This house is going to be in the Sangre de Christo mountains of Colorado, at 8000 feet, and an outdoor barbeque isn't going to be practical for three months of the year -- maybe more. An indoor grill would be very nice. Maybe it could be combined with a wood-fired pizza oven, as long as I'm day-dreaming.

4. A salamander, and a warming tray for dishes, would also be very nice to have.

5. A commercial-grade rubber floor matt is worth thinking about, with a built-in floor drain. A hot-water or steam hose would also be nice, for clean-up. No wood or marble, this time around!

6. A spare bedroom, in case Alice Waters, Thomas Keller, or Alain Ducasse decide to stop by to go elk hunting. Douglas Baldwin, you are closer, and the door will always be open!

Bob

Edited by Robert Jueneman, 30 April 2009 - 07:29 PM.

[VivreManger]

The house we are planning to buy has a new Maytag electric range with a convection oven and a glass (UGH!!) cooktop over conventional coil elements.

At this point we are are considering a number of options, but the most likely is keeping the range as is, but adding a 4 or 5 burner natural gas cook top next to it. I think there is enough space for both. The glass cooktop would then become working counter space most of the time and cooking space some of the time.

What experience and recommendations do you have for high quality gas cooktops? I am willing to consider something in the $1,000 price range. Any strong feelings?

Since the existing glass top will probably be adequate for simmering purposes, the main point of the gas top will be quick high heat cooking.

Any strong feelings about DCA, Thermador, Viking etc.?

Which of them have a five-burner 30" cook top?

I do a lot of high temperature wok and cast-iron pan cooking, so I definitely need something that can deliver a powerful blast of heat. The induction alternative will disable a big part of the cookware I enjoy using.

In the course of adding the cook-top we will also have to add powerful hood, probably in the 600 cfm range, but that is for another thread.

[Beanie]

Check out Caldera. Small Vermont company. 5 burner comes in 30 and 36 inches. Under $900. More powerful than the others. See gardenweb forum for reviews. I have no connection to the manufacturer and no experience using this appliance but was impressed by the reviews when I researched this topic a few years ago. Unfortunately, my kitchen renovations plans changed and I never purchased it.

[VivreManger]

Here is the Caldera discussion:

http://ths.gardenweb...1138155637.html

A.J. Madison has it for about $800. As it happens, their factory is located an easy few hours drive from where I live.

As I recall you, Beanie, may have posted about the company in another thread. I am interested in learning more from someone who has cooked on it.

TWO Additional Points.

AJ Madison has gotten a lot of bad internet reviews for their products and customer service.

Is Caldera still in business? I found two numbers for them on the web, (800) 725-7711 and (802) 253-3008. Neither worked. It may be too good to be true.

Edited by VivreManger, 28 May 2009 - 11:50 AM.

[Dave the Cook]

Assuming Caldera is still in business, the product looks worth closer examination. I'm not thrilled about the burner layout, especially on the 30-inch. The center rear burner appears to be the high-output one. Assuming that's where you'd use a wok or other large pot, using that burner will block the other two on the back. Make sure you're going to be comfortable with that arrangement. Personally, I'd rather have four usable burners all the time, but that's the way I cook.

In the $1000 range, you don't have too many other options. GE Monogram has a unit, but it seems underpowered for your purposes. For a few hundred more, you can get into a 30-inch KitchenAid (with a 17 KBTU burner) or a Thermador. Everything else (BlueStar, DCS, Viking, etc.) is upwards of $2000.

[VivreManger]

The burner arrangement is not ideal, but having the hot spot in the middle does mean that spilling and splattering is less likely to land on the counter. Since I would still have access to the four burners on the glass top, the temporary loss of the back two burners is not as crucial.

On the other hand, I have been trying to learn if Caldera is still in business. And if it is still in existence, it seems no longer to be in Stowe, VT. So far none of those Stowe-Waterbury phone numbers work.

It may still be possible to buy the top, but it is not clear that there is now any manufacturer to back it up.

Edited to add:

Just checked with a dealer who did not have all the information, but he thought the company had been sold to another manufacturer, perhaps in New York. He believed that all warranties were still being honored.

Edited by VivreManger, 28 May 2009 - 04:53 PM.

[VivreManger]

I just got off the phone with a dealer who told me that EuroChef in New York City now distributes (and manufactures??) them.

Any experience with EuroChef?

[Beanie]

I just got off the phone with a dealer who told me that EuroChef in New York City now distributes (and manufactures??) them.

Any experience with EuroChef?

No experience with EuroChef, but here's their contact info. There's not much information, but the Caldera link will bring you to a different website than the one I posted previously. I hadn't realized the company was no longer in Vermont. I have a feeling that the Vermont location couldn't handle the distribution and customer service end of the business and made a deal with Eurochef to distribute, sell parts, etc. As I mentioned before, I've never used the cooktop but was impressed with the excellent reviews and the price point. Let us know if you learn more about them.