122 replies to this topic

[kiliki]

Everyone was very helpful in my countertops and floors thread, and now I want to ask something about ranges and stovetops and ovens. I've read a lot of archived threads that discuss particular models, and I've gone shopping and read Consumer Reports, but I still have not decided even the most basic questions. So:

I know the basic pros and cons of having a range v. separate appliance, but does anyone want to weigh in on how happy they are with having one or the other? Has anyone had space issues with their wall oven?
What particular feature can you not live without, or didn't get that you wished you did? If you got a 30" cooktop, is it enough, or would you recommend working in a 36" if at all possible? Though in general we're getting mid-range appliances, we've considered splurging on a cooktop or range, but no appliance salesman has been able to explain why we should pay the extra thousands for a Wolf, for example.

Really, just any general thoughts that will help me in the decision process would be great. Fyi, we are two people who cook everyday but who only occasionally have dinner parties.
Thanks!

Edited by kiliki, 25 April 2005 - 12:42 PM.

[MobyP]

This might be of interest. The old Garlands/now Bluestar.

[Basilgirl]

I LOVE my new GE Profile gas range. It has a power burner for boiling water or whatever quickly and a simmer burner that never goes "poof" and blows out. The grate design is very pretty - the grates are gray. The oven is nice and big. I got the floor model at Best Buy and saved $400 off the original $1000 price. This replaced my 1972 Harvest Gold double oven piece of crap. I'd post a picture but I'm too stupid to figure it out. You can find it on the GE web site; it is model # JGB900 in white.

[Kim WB]

I think , for cooktops especially, you need to evaluate how many BTU's you need for the kind of cooking you do...make a lot fo stocks...need a simmer burner ( a real one, not one of those less effective ring attachments. Like to stir fry? then choose a moddle with a built in wok stand available, hate ot clean...get the one piece base style...I need high heat, fast..so my decision was based on that. And, of course, remember to adjust the type/budget for ventilation based on these decisions.

I have a Viking 6 burner, and love it's easy clean up and high heat,if I were doing a total reno, I'd have gottent he 42" i/o the 36, but in my case, I was putting it into a pre existing island and didn't want to loosedrawer/cabinet space underneath...I had a 30", so the 36" resulted in only the loss of one drawer.

I highly prefer wall ovens and seperate cooktop.

Edited by Kim WB, 25 April 2005 - 02:57 PM.

[Peter B Wolf]

I also am in the market. The following has been discussed somewhere else on this board:
http://www.universal...pr36sebuga.html

Am now looking for a decent exhaust/venting hood.
Can't believe that one will cost half as much or more than the range. Any help out there?
Varmint's was $1,100.00

[MArkF]

I had space constraints in my "oh-so-small" kitchen and after reading many articles questioning the cost vs benefit of "pro-style" ranges, I opted for a 30 dual feul range (Dacor RSD30) and matching convection microhood. Cost for all plus installation was $1300 lees than Viking 30". Am very happy with it all.

Mark

[kiliki]

The salesman at a rather high end appliance store raved about the Dacor ranges and cooktops-he thought it was the best combo of quality and value.

[Daddy-A]

If you got a 30" cooktop, is it enough, or would you recommend working in a 36" if at all possible? Though in general we're getting mid-range appliances, we've considered splurging on a cooktop or range, but no appliance salesman has been able to explain why we should pay the extra thousands for a Wolf, for example.

Regarding cooktop size ... it depends on what kind of cooktop you're looking at - a drop-in, or range-top. When looking at a drop-in, pay attention to where the knobs are. A 30" cooktop can effectively become a 24" cooktop if the knobs run down the side [Example - CLICK]. In this situation, I like to use a 36" top whenever possible.

Of course, a range-top [Example - CLICK] has all the knobs on the front, thus freeing the entire surface for cooking.

Reason for Wolf? One word - simmer. Wolf offers the only true simmer (unless things have changed recently) in the market. Others offer a simmer feature, but the flame turns off and on to maintain the lower heat. Wolf's simmer is a separate, smaller burner that remains on. Better control.

A.

[Varmint]

Reason for Wolf?  One word - simmer.  Wolf offers the only true simmer (unless things have changed recently) in the market.  Others offer a simmer feature, but the flame turns off and on to maintain the lower heat.  Wolf's simmer is a separate, smaller burner that remains on.  Better control.

A.

Actually, the Monogram ranges and professional cooktops have a separate simmer ring. It's quite nice, and a hell of a lot cheaper than Wolf.

[squids]

The Bluestar also offers a simmer burner. We used to have a Viking 36" but on our remodel we will be going with the 30" Bluestar. Less expensive and much better performance!

[coquus]

I just settled for a discontinued KitchenAid convection model for my home that has a ceramic cooktop, far less expensive than one of the restaurant models, plus simmer features, knobs up front, and a computer for the old lady. Now I need to get rid of the cast iron for stainless pans however, so sad. This oven looks so cool however, and it was well priced so I grabbed it.

I will probably try to put a hood in, but am not sure i'll do that right away, as I would still like to get a hold of a high powered single gas burner for wok action, but don't know that it will be necessary or if I will have space yet or not.

Edited by coquus, 20 July 2005 - 10:46 AM.

[Dave the Cook]

. . .  Now I need to get rid of the cast iron for stainless pans however, so sad . . .

Why?

[foolcontrol]

Just stay away from Viking. We just replaced our Viking ovens at the cooking school. We have had three different Viking ovens (not even close as far as temps) along with two different Viking cooktops. My GE electric oven at home cooks better and more consistent than the Vikings. I use a professional baking stone at home so that makes the GE oven perform more like a professional oven. All of the guest chefs say the same. Most of them like Thermador, Dacor and Wolf.

Major hint for cleaning porcelain coated or steel cooking grates - Oven cleaning cycle. It makes life really easy and there is absolutely no way to clean them that well by scrubbing.

[NulloModo]

My parents have a Viking Range (four gas burners plus grill/griddle). I have loved it every time I have used it, the burners are very high heat, the grill is very convenient (though I will admit that the grill heats rather unevenly), and they have had no reliability issues whatsoever with it.

I can't comment on Viking ovens, as they went with seperate Jenn-Air units.

[azlee]

what do folks think of miele or any of the german brands (gaggenau, kuppersbusch)? i'm trying to decide between a 30" dacor electric range and a miele 24" built in oven and cooktop put together in one cabinet in order to save space in a small kitchen. if i could have gas, i would definitelygo for dacor or dcs.

I just settled for a discontinued KitchenAid convection model for my home that has a ceramic cooktop, far less expensive than one of the restaurant models, plus simmer features, knobs up front, and a computer for the old lady.  Now I need to get rid of the cast iron for stainless pans however, so sad.  This oven looks so cool however, and it was well priced so I grabbed it. 

I will probably try to put a hood in, but am not sure i'll do that right away, as I would still like to get a hold of a high powered single gas burner for wok action, but don't know that it will be necessary or if I will have space yet or not.

[coquus]

. . .  Now I need to get rid of the cast iron for stainless pans however, so sad . . .

Why?

I think it scratches the ceramic or some such thing Donkey Dave. And it's sad because I have to get new pans .

Azlee, I don't know anything about no German models, sorry, the KitchenAid just happened to be on super sale, otherwise. . .waaay out of my price range. You should have seen the crap I was looking at in the under 1000 dollar range.

Edited by coquus, 21 July 2005 - 07:19 AM.

[Dave the Cook]

. . .  Now I need to get rid of the cast iron for stainless pans however, so sad . . .

Why?

I think it scratches the ceramic or some such thing Donkey Dave. And it's sad because I have to get new pans .

If this is your story, I'll back you up. I wouldn't dream of standing between you and new cookware.

Whatever you do, though, don't look at this:


Edit: there's a decent thread on ceramic tops here.

[BigboyDan]

I own a Bluestar 60" with griddle and grill, the best of the US made; the best out there, over-all, are the hyper-expensive French made La Cornue and Molteni, or the British Aga.

[andiesenji]

The only cast iron pans that won't work on a ceramic cooktop (or an induction burner) are the ones with a raised rim on the bottom. If the bottom is absolutely flat it will work just fine.

I had one that had a slight raise in the center, not completely flat. I took it to a metal shop and had them grind it flat. They charged me $15.00
It works beautifully on the induction burner, heats up rapidly.

Edited by andiesenji, 21 July 2005 - 01:49 PM.

[Mayhaw Man]

I also am in the market. The following has been discussed somewhere else on this board:
http://www.universal...pr36sebuga.html

Does anyone have one of these things and are they any good? It's hard to believe the price judging from the look and the features. I have to make a move soon. Real soon. I have decided, for reasons of energy efficiency and marital bliss, to unload the old O'Keefe and Merrit, though I love it so.

[winesonoma]

I also am in the market. The following has been discussed somewhere else on this board:
http://www.universal...pr36sebuga.html

Does anyone have one of these things and are they any good? It's hard to believe the price judging from the look and the features. I have to make a move soon. Real soon. I have decided, for reasons of energy efficiency and marital bliss, to unload the old O'Keefe and Merrit, though I love it so.

Please say it isn't so, Brooks. You will kick yourself if you get rid of it.

[andiesenji]

If the oven is wide enough to take a full size sheet pan, it is worth it.
However don't just "unload" the O'K/M. There are a lot of people looking for vintage appliances for 40s/50s/60s, etc., kitchens and willing to pay premium prices for those in good condition.

[coquus]

That is so awesome, I will check that thread out. Just got wind of a small Garland for sale less than the KitchenAid waiting for me at Sears, but my girl says white, so white it still is I guess. I have a Garland at work, but it's crap right now, the oven cooks for crap, and the burners are all crapped out. So I guess it's still KitchenAid. Here is a picture.http://www.kitchenai...w-largeview.jpg]

Edited by coquus, 22 July 2005 - 07:09 AM.

[lcdm]

I am going through the same thing right now, here are some of my thoughts.
Professional style range (for residential use), looking at DCS/Viking all gas:
Pros: continuous grates, heavy duty feel, all burners high & simmer, can fit pans/pots on both front and back burners at same time, simple design (no computer chips to get fried and replaced), has slow/warm setting, looks.
Cons: price (much more than a regular range), no bells or whistles.
Regular Range (sort of - professional style), looking at Kenmore/Kitchenaid:
Pros: high burner, simmer, continuous grates, oven has bells and whistles (timer, convection convert, proof, warm, self cleaning), price.
Cons: only one burner is high and one simmer, 2 large pots/pans can’t fit front back, if electrons get fried expensive to fix, doesn’t have the same look.
Range vs. rangetop/wall ovens (don’t like cooktops because of the knobs being on the top rather than in the front, had that configuration and the knobs always got in the way and were a pain to clean).
Pros: can mix and match; get a pro style rangetop, looking at DCS/Viking, that has all burners high/simmer, simple design, can get a Kenmore/Kitchenaid/Bosch… wall oven, don’t have to bend down when I use the oven, has all the bells and whistles. Depending on choice price comes in between a pro range and a regular range.
Cons: depending on layout, have to have room and special cabinet for a wall oven, wall oven w/bells and whistles is usually electric (can be a pro or con) and expensive to fix if electronics get fried.

[Sue Flay]

Is a hood (or downward ventilation) really necessary for a gas stove? We're about to move into a rental house that currently has an electric stove but has a gas furnace right below the stove. The owner's agreed to pay for the gas piping and installation and we'll pay for the stove which we'll take with us (or sell to him) when we leave. The problem is that the ventilation from the kitchen, in the form of a seemingly powerful 60s style fan that blows to the outside, is diagnonally across from where the stove would be. It's not a huge kitchen, about 14 by 11 I think, and the stove sits half way across one wall. Any thoughts? I don't want to (nor know that we'd be allowed to) chop up the walls of a rental to install more ventilation, but we'd love to have a new stove.

Edited to add: there's also a door from the kitchen to the outside that we could always open if we're doing something heavy-duty.

Edited by Sue Flay, 11 August 2005 - 10:19 AM.

[kelautz]

This cook's vote goes to the vintage gas ranges. I've cooked many years on a coil electric stove at my previous home. I've taught years of cooking classes on a high end professional style range (which shall remain nameless). Then I moved to the house with the O'Keefe & Merritt. Wow! For home cooking, especially in a smallish kitchen, the OK&M wins hands down. The oven is the most accurate I've ever used. The burners rock! They're 12,000 BTU, according to the repair guy I had out to hook up the broiler. Once I started to use the broiler, I figured out why the previous cook didn't use it - its too hot! Its like a restaurant broiler and it is scorching the cabinet above the vent. Wait'll I get a good vent hood.

Its 12000 BTU burners (four of them) are more than enough for everything I want to do at home. Much more often than not, I find myself turning the flame down, rather than up. It simmers beautifully.

We're remodeling the kitchen next year (no more cabinets over the stove, thank you), but the OK&M is staying. The money saved is going toward top notch refrigeration, but that's another topic.

[winesonoma]

My local guy for the classics. http://www.classicra....com/index.html

[woodburner]

Started my research for a new Electric Range today. I'm considering Bosch, Maytag and the likes.
Found some interesting information regarding warranties.

Effective January 1 2006, most all major market players of residential equipment will be slipping the warranty from 3 years to 1 year on parts.

Oh yeah, price hikes on most will go into effect the same day.

I was hoping for a price break after the holidays.

Appliance Advisor

woodburner

[CtznCane]

We went through our kitchen remodel at the end of last year. We considered both a cooktop with a wall oven and a range. We opted to go with the range for 2 reasons. First was that it made more sense space wise and I feel it is more efficient to have the oven right there as well as (with a smallish kitchen to begin with) it made more efficient use of our space. The second reason for going with a range is that the cooktops I looked at did not have the same btu's for all burners. Even with the high end makers this held true.

Size wise we were limited to a 30" model. I will say that if we had the room for a 36" I certainly would have gone that direction though we are perfectly pleased with what we got.

As to which model to get and what features comes down to one's own cooking preferences. I wanted a gas cooktop, period, so electric was out of the question. I also wanted to be able to get as much heat as possible on the burners. I was also looking for the range with the cooktop best suited for stir fries and using a wok. When it came down to the oven portion, I wanted to have convection, but I don't do much in terms of baking but I wanted as good a broiler as possible. I should add that due to wanting high output burners I had to get a good fan as well.

In terms of the brands that we looked at, we primarily considered Wolff, Viking, Dacor, & DCS. We briefly looked at Thermidor, Miele and a couple others. The first one I eliminated was Dacor. I had a strong dislike for their grates and (perhaps motivated by that) didn't care for other aspects of the range which I can't remember exactly now. DCS was okay and wouldn't have been a bad choice other than at the time frame we were looking at was when they were being taken over by Fisher-Paykel and it would have been near impossible to order one and get it within any reasonable time frame. While I still didn't consider it to be the best option anyways this eliminated it totally.

The final choice came down to Viking or Wolff. Since I wanted a good broiler I opted for Gas throughout as opposed to a dual fuel range. These two ranges had the best broilers I had seen and I think both were equal in this regard. Both ranges were also at the top of the list in terms of appearance as well. The final choice came down to the grates. I really liked the Wok grate (available accessory) offered by Viking. The swing though came as with the 30" range, the Wolff had an empty channell between the 4 burner grates while the Viking had grates in this center channel. That swung the final choice in favor of the Viking.

In terms of the major features and the final cost the options were: All gas as opposed to dual fuel. Sealed or non-sealed burners. Whether or not to get self-cleaning on the oven. As I've mentioned I went with all gas. You cannot (and I think this holds true with Wolff and perhaps others as well) use a wok grate with the sealed burners as the Wok wouldn't sit down low enough. Personally I'd also rather be able to take the rings to the sink to clean so going with the non-sealed burners was a no brainer decision. I also opted to go without the self-clean as I figured the 600 dollar difference, for having to clean an oven twice a year wasn't worth it. I will say that on those 2 days I do sort of wish I'd gotten that feature, though I don't regret having to clean the oven myself.

In terms of the hood I went with a Zephyr Typhoon. A good hood is worth the price.

I know Viking has different locations (and probably one in the Seattle area) where you can go and get a thorough demonstration. I also happen to like Viking's 'Vari-simmer' feature immensely. I've been using my stove for a year now almost and have no regrets whatsoever. Regardless of which model you decide upon, is a high end range worth the buying? I'd say yes. Price is a one time issue. Cost is a long time issue. Since a range will last you many years, if you break it down over time, it isn't that big of a cost difference to be able to do the things you would like to do efficiently.

[memesuze]

    As to which model to get and what features comes down to one's own cooking preferences.  I wanted a gas cooktop, period, so electric was out of the question.  I also wanted to be able to get as much heat as possible on the burners.  I was also looking for the range with the cooktop best suited for stir fries and using a wok. When it came down to the oven portion, I wanted to have convection, but I don't do much in terms of baking but I wanted as good a broiler as possible.  I should add that due to wanting high output burners I had to get a good fan as well.
.....
    The final choice came down to Viking or Wolff.  Since I wanted a good broiler  I opted for Gas throughout as opposed to a dual fuel range.  These two ranges had the best broilers I had seen and I think both were equal in this regard.  Both ranges were also at the top of the list in terms of appearance as well.  The final choice came down to the grates.  I really liked the Wok grate (available accessory) offered by Viking.  The swing though came as with the 30" range, the Wolff had an empty channell between the 4 burner grates while the Viking had grates in this center channel.  That swung the final choice in favor of the Viking.

talk to me about the broiler issue - how did you determine that the gas broilers worked better than the electric broilers you might have found on a dual-fuel range?

I haven't done much hands-on research yet. I'm struggling with the dual-fuel vs gas option. I'd been considering dual-fuel simply to get a more accurate oven, and a "true" convection, but am concerned about the daily cost of using electric power to fuel an oven vs. gas. I don't know how to research the fuel usage to be able to get a comparison of the costs when looking at my gas and electric bills. I know that gas is high this year due to the Katrina mess, but typically it has a lower cost here in Texas.

Can anyone point me to a method to figure out how many cubic feet of gas or kilowatts of electricity would be used for an hour of 350 or 450 degree cooking for a particular model/brand name of range?

I do have a Cadco commercial countertop convection oven - but the convection never shuts off. I bought it to save me from having to crank up my gas Chambers just to do a quick oven job.