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Merits of barware


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58 replies to this topic

#31 Mayur

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:34 PM

I've heard people assert that metal shakers make for a colder drink, usually citing the fact that metal is a much better thermal conductor than glass.  While it is true that metal is a better thermal conductor than glass, this should actually make a metal shaker worse, not better, at chilling the drink -- as it more readily conducts heat from the surrounding environment (your hands, for example) into its contents.  If this is, in fact, true -- and I won't believe it until I do the experiments myself -- it likely has something to do with glass shakers having a greater thermal capacity compared to metal shakers.  This being the case, a pre-chilled glass shaker should actually perform best.

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Except, of course, that then you're making cocktails with a heavy, slippery, iced-up glass shaker, which does *not* seem so fun! :) Dilemmas, dilemmas...

I prefer the "v" glasses myself, only because I like straight lines. (Modernist to the core, I guess.) I like 'em thin, fine, crystalline, and about 5 oz. in size. Coupettes are, however, MUCH more practical in terms of containing drink spillage.
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#32 thirtyoneknots

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:55 PM

I've got nothing against V glasses, but sipping a Manhattan from these wonderful coupettes is so Guilded Age :-P
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#33 Bricktop

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:40 AM

For the last few weeks, I have been drinking my cocktails out of champagne flutes. I read it somewhere (but I don't remember where), and I like the way the drinks look in them.

#34 mjr_inthegardens

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 09:09 AM

Can I get mini shakers (8 oz) in Chinatown rest supply?

Any ideas? I'd really like to pick a couple up.

thx

MJR
�As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy, and to make plans.� - Ernest Hemingway, in �A Moveable Feast�

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#35 Kent Wang

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Posted 03 January 2008 - 09:11 PM

How about sterling silver barware? Are they a pain to maintain? Can I run them through the dishwasher. This site has some mixed responses, slightly in favor of the dishwasher, if done right.

I've been thinking about getting an antique sterling stirring spoon off of eBay.

#36 slkinsey

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Posted 04 January 2008 - 08:57 AM

A silver stirring spoon isn't too hard to keep clean by hand, so I wouldn't worry about it. I have an ancestral silver stirring spoon, and use it every time I make a stirred cocktail.

As for shakers... Good luck finding an affordable solid silver shaker (which is what is generally meant when one says "sterling silver" instead of "silver plated") with a decent design for shaking.

Anyway... a few things about silver shakers, which as chance would have it is an area in which I have some experience:

1. Silver has extremely good thermal conductivity -- better even than copper. A solid silver shaker is going to have some weight to it, which means that the thermal capacity of the shaker will be at least as high as the thermal capacity of a glass-and-metal Boston shaker, and most likely a good bit higher.

This means that it is the worst possible material to use if your shaker is at room temperature. The shaker will have a high thermal capacity to conduct into the liquid, and due to having excellent conductivity, will be very efficient in conducting that thermal energy into the liquid.

This also means that a heavy solid silver shaker is an excellent choice if the shaker will be pre-chilled by being frozen in the freezer. In this case, the good thermal conductivity and large thermal capacity are working in your favor by efficiently conducting plenty of thermal energy out of the liquid instead of into the liquid as it would with a room temperature shaker.

2. My experience is that running silver through the dishwasher (especially using standard dishwasher detergent and especially if there are other metals in the dishwasher) will at best dull the silver after a few washes and at worst will severely tarnish the silver. The effect will depend on the composition of the silver ("sterling silver" is an alloy). Better to simply wipe down the silver with a bar towel and give it a light swipe with a silver polishing cloth at the end of the evening.

Edited by slkinsey, 04 January 2008 - 09:01 AM.

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#37 Kent Wang

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 11:16 AM

Thanks, Sam. I'll post a pic here when I find one I like.

BTW, I noticed that the bar at Jean Georges uses silver (not sure if solid or plate) Boston shakers, unchilled.

#38 brinza

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 12:47 PM

I use a three-piece shaker that has a heavy wall design. I'm not sure if it's double-walled but it doesn't feel cold in my hand (which means it's not transferring any heat from my hand into the container), however, it does get extremely cold inside since the strainer top (which is not as thick as the tin) becomes heavily frosted over after a thorough, vigorous shake.

I'm also a glassware nut. Finding room for it all is become a very real problem. :blush: I haven't put much effort into acquiring any antique pieces (although I do have a few that have been donated by family members), I just like to buy whatever strikes me as different and fun. I do go for the smaller glasses too, and although I still like the V cocktail glasses, I prefer smaller ones. I have two old-fashioned glasses (not double!) that are from an Irish cream gift set and I treasure them. They are no more than 6 ounces (maybe even less) and I use them regularly. I hate the 10 or 12 ounce DOFs, but try to find anything smaller . . .

You know you are glassware fanatic when:
a) deciding what to drink is a two-stage process: choosing a cocktail; and choosing the glass
b) you have some money burning a hole in your pocket and you can't decide whether to go into the liquor store or the kitchen/home store to buy more glassware.
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#39 Chris Amirault

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Posted 09 April 2008 - 01:53 PM

Another glassware fan here, though I favor vintage, not new.

You know you are glassware fanatic when:
a) deciding what to drink is a two-stage process: choosing a cocktail; and choosing the glass

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This seems particularly true if you start with the glass, e.g., "I haven't used those Lake George Tiki Motel hurricane glasses in a while...."
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#40 arctan

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Posted 14 March 2009 - 06:33 PM

Hey there, some time ago, Mr. Alchemist posted the following in the You might be a cocktail snob/geek if... topic:

When you go shopping for shakers you have to go to a couple of stores to get the right Winco/Johnson Rose combination.


Johnder asked what the correct combination of shakers might be.

Having (happily) run across a Winco 30oz shaker the other day, I am hoping that part of the equation might be correct.

In any case, the Winco 30oz works much better than the rather more expensive WMF boston shaker I had been using. I think the thicker steel of the WMF might actually be a disadvantage.

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could someone comment on the winco/johnson rose combo? why are two different brands used together? what size is each? weighted/unweighted and why would you chose one over the other?

i was just looking to get a couple of new shakers. your advice would be appreciated!

#41 Ari Pappas

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Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:53 PM

Stores open to the public in the San Francisco area would be ideal; but, online is OK, too.

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East Bay Restaurant Supply in Oakland had a wide variety of pourers last time I was there, all very cheap. Cash and Carry, right around the corner, also has quite a few.

#42 Alchemist

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Posted 16 March 2009 - 06:24 AM

Hey there, some time ago, Mr. Alchemist posted the following in the You might be a cocktail snob/geek if... topic:

When you go shopping for shakers you have to go to a couple of stores to get the right Winco/Johnson Rose combination.


Johnder asked what the correct combination of shakers might be.

Having (happily) run across a Winco 30oz shaker the other day, I am hoping that part of the equation might be correct.

In any case, the Winco 30oz works much better than the rather more expensive WMF boston shaker I had been using. I think the thicker steel of the WMF might actually be a disadvantage.

View Post


could someone comment on the winco/johnson rose combo? why are two different brands used together? what size is each? weighted/unweighted and why would you chose one over the other?

i was just looking to get a couple of new shakers. your advice would be appreciated!

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The brands then selves don't matter as much as how they fit together. There should be a solid 1.5-2 inches between the top of the big shaker and the bottom of the little shaker when they are fitted. The seal should be good when you give the top of the little shaker a good smack with the heel of your hand. If you try a few different ones you will see a difference.

Check the gague of the shakers. Some are thicker than others. I like the thicker ones as the thin ones wear out (maybe not such a problem for home bartender) and they also cut my middle finger right where it joins the palm. Also probably not much of a problem if you shake with two dry hands, instead of jackerhammer with one raisined one.

Also, I like the ones that snap when you open them. The little giants don't but most people I know prefer them.

Toby



A DUSTY SHAKER LEADS TO A THIRSTY LIFE

#43 arctan

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 05:46 AM

The brands then selves don't matter as much as how they fit together.  There should be a solid 1.5-2 inches between the top of the big shaker and the bottom of the little shaker when they are fitted.  The seal should be good when you give the top of the little shaker a good smack with the heel of your hand.  If you try a few different ones you will see a difference.

Check the gague of the shakers.  Some are thicker than others.  I like the thicker ones as the thin ones wear out (maybe not such a problem for home bartender) and they also cut my middle finger right where it joins the palm. Also probably not much of a problem if you shake with two dry hands, instead of jackerhammer with one raisined one.

Also, I like the ones that snap when you open them.  The little giants don't but most people I know prefer them.

Toby

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thanks for the reply!

unfortunately, i am unable to buy tins locally so i'm planning on ordering them online. that was why i was wondering about brands. i'm looking at the ones on http://www.barproducts.com/ at the moment. does anyone have any comments on their tins or even their company in general?

Toby, for the long bars of ice that you use in the dark & stormy at TVH, are the bars made by the kold draft machine? do you use some sort of tray? is there some poor barback going at a block of ice with a saw? i've had no luck finding any sort of ice trays (or similar) that can do a similar ice bar. i've only been able to find the ice square trays. does anyone know of a source?

#44 eje

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 06:53 AM

thanks for the reply!

unfortunately, i am unable to buy tins locally so i'm planning on ordering them online. that was why i was wondering about brands. i'm looking at the ones on http://www.barproducts.com/ at the moment. does anyone have any comments on their tins or even their company in general?

Toby, for the long bars of ice that you use in the dark & stormy at TVH, are the bars made by the kold draft machine? do you use some sort of tray? is there some poor barback going at a block of ice with a saw? i've had no luck finding any sort of ice trays (or similar) that can do a similar ice bar. i've only been able to find the ice square trays. does anyone know of a source?

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I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses. It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.
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#45 arctan

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 08:37 AM

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

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i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

#46 bostonapothecary

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 10:56 AM

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

View Post


i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

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right now i'm into the 8 and 16 oz. shaker tins from barproducts.com they are thin and probably will wear out quickly but are cheap enough.

they solved my problem of other bartenders not wanting to put enough ice into their drinks with larger shakers and the ice being poor quality in the first place. we make 3 oz. straight spirit drinks and 4 oz. citrus. the shaken citrus drinks comes out with perfect dilution for us.

the faux cold draft cube trays are awesome and if you could afford to buy enough of them i'm sure you could perfectly remove some of the separators with an exacto knife.
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#47 John the Barman

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 11:02 AM

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

View Post


i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

View Post

I have used the spherical ice trays and the produce horrible ice. Apparently ice is not meant to freeze in a sphere. The best sphere i've seen comes from the japanese sphere maker that you can see on youtube and their web site. It costs too much for anything over 30mm though. One day....

#48 marty mccabe

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 02:27 PM

If you're in Boston, check out Adam at The Boston Shaker. He's got a great selection of barware, bitters, etc., and a willingness to find it for you if he doesn't have it.

If you're not in Boston, well, bug him to get his webstore up and running... :wink:
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#49 bmdaniel

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 09:19 PM

I have ordered from barproducts many times and find them to be a fine resource, prompt shipping, good products.

I can't speak for Toby in regards spear ice at The Violet Hour, but I do know that Heaven's Dog, here in San Francisco, after failing to find anything suitable at the container store, had custom plastic ice trays built for spear ice to fit in tall glasses.  It would be difficult, to nearly impossible, to cut an ice spear thin enough.

Though we do use big fat square hand cut cubes for drinks in rocks glasses.

View Post


i'm curious about the custom ice trays, where do you even go for something like that? is there a market for custom trays or cube, bar, and spherical ice? i found one place that sold spherical ice trays, but the spheres were only 2" or so. i would think that 2.5 or even 3 would be a better choice.

View Post

I have used the spherical ice trays and the produce horrible ice. Apparently ice is not meant to freeze in a sphere. The best sphere i've seen comes from the japanese sphere maker that you can see on youtube and their web site. It costs too much for anything over 30mm though. One day....

View Post


I use the SFMOMA ice sphere molds - I think they work pretty well. Are these the ones you're talking about and why don't you like the ice?

#50 arctan

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:51 AM

right now i'm into the 8 and 16 oz. shaker tins from barproducts.com  they are thin and probably will wear out quickly but are cheap enough.

they solved my problem of other bartenders not wanting to put enough ice into their drinks with larger shakers and the ice being poor quality in the first place.  we make 3 oz. straight spirit drinks and 4 oz. citrus.  the shaken citrus drinks comes out with perfect dilution for us.

the faux cold draft cube trays are awesome and if you could afford to buy enough of them i'm sure you could perfectly remove some of the separators with an exacto knife.

View Post


i'm surprise that no one makes a tray to make ice bars

#51 arctan

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:52 AM

If you're in Boston, check out Adam at The Boston Shaker.  He's got a great selection of barware, bitters, etc., and a willingness to find it for you if he doesn't have it.

If you're not in Boston, well, bug him to get his webstore up and running... :wink:

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i got a price list from him. i wish i had a place like that around here!

#52 arctan

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:59 AM


I have used the spherical ice trays and the produce horrible ice.  Apparently ice is not meant to freeze in a sphere.  The best sphere i've seen comes from the japanese sphere maker that you can see on youtube and their web site.  It costs too much for anything over 30mm though.  One day....

View Post


I use the SFMOMA ice sphere molds - I think they work pretty well. Are these the ones you're talking about and why don't you like the ice?

View Post


i was looking at the SFMOMA ones as well. they seem rather expensive for what they are though. does the ice come out as well as the ice in their photo?

#53 newbie21

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 08:46 AM

The spheres that I've seen at the Bradstreet Crafthouse come out quite nicely. They are not perfectly clear as I've seen in some pictures off the various websites, but have unique and beautiful patterns inside of the sphere. They definitely held their shape throughout the cocktail, i.e., didn't crack or break apart. They're using a Japanese model.

Edited by newbie21, 23 March 2009 - 08:46 AM.


#54 slkinsey

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 09:02 AM

The Taisin ice ball maker (I hesitate to call it a "mold" since it creates the sphere by melting already-frozen ice) won't make a clear sphere unless the ice you start with is already clear. Right now, I'm not aware of any practical ice maker that makes clear ice in the size required to make a fist-sized ice sphere.
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#55 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:18 PM

I have been using a tulip shaped 4 oz port glass that offers a generous 2 1/4 inches at the mouth. Have yet to test with port but it works wonderfully for rum.

 

 

Edit: actually "tulip shaped" may be the wrong term. The glass is wider at its mouth than at any other point:

 

FancyRumCocktail12012013.jpg


Edited by JoNorvelleWalker, 31 December 2013 - 08:37 PM.

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#56 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 07:57 PM

This whole thread is of great interest to me, however my specific question tonight is what would one use for a "stem punch glass"?  Which a recipe for whiskey punch I made last night called for.  For lack of anything more specific I used

 

http://images.replac...4275S0002T2.jpg

 

...that I purchased from replacements.com.  The size worked out about right, even though the piece is supposed to be a water goblet.  Most punch glasses I have seen do not have stems.



#57 ChrisTaylor

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 08:27 PM

I use a Glencairn for rum unless I'm serving it in cocktail form.


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#58 gfweb

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 09:58 PM

I have been using a tulip shaped 4 oz port glass that offers a generous 2 1/4 inches at the mouth. Have yet to test with port but it works wonderfully for rum.

 

 

Edit: actually "tulip shaped" may be the wrong term. The glass is wider at its mouth than at any other point:

 

FancyRumCocktail12012013.jpg

Nice photo


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#59 JoNorvelleWalker

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 08:52 PM

I've been using a Kotobuki Sphere Ice Ball Tray for 2.5 inch round ice. The Kotbuki has worked really well after the second try. However today I saw this new product blogged by umamimart:

 

http://umamimart.com...e-ball-machine/