243 replies to this topic

[Qui]

I want to have creme brulee on my retail line, and my boss does not like the idea of baking them in the aluminium remakin. He thinks it looks unfinished... basically, he doesn't want to have anything to do with aluminium stuff... so I thought of an idea of making the creme brulee in fleximold, freeze and unmold it into a pastry shell... then caramelize the top... so you will see the custard floating on top on the shell... I have seen it done in some cookbooks, but I have tried a few formulas with no great success...

the custard turns out not firm enough, it's not ozeey, just a little lose, and I'm sure I cook them long enough...

this is the formula I use...

225g heavy cream
150g milk
82.5g sugar

90g yolks
1 vanilla bean

Bake in water bath @ 350F

I was thinking about maybe adding some whites into the mixture or maybe more yolks?

Just wondering if any of you have experience with this and any input will be appreciated.

Thanks

[aidensnd]

Although I never tried it in a flexipan I used to make this recipe in a hotel pan and cut out squares of it to sit on top of a napoleon. Here's the recipe:
cream- 10 cups
sugar-18 oz
yolks- 20 oz
vanilla bean- 2
vanilla extract- 2 Tbsp

Bake at 200 no water bath until done.
You could also try a stovetop brulee and then just pour it into the shells, might be easier. Hope this helps.

[s_sevilla]

I have seen a few recipes that created a sturdy version of the custard to cut into sheets for use in napoleans and as components of composed desserts. I believe the recipes included cornstarch. If you have a background in food chemicals, I would suggest experimenting with Methylcellulose food gums, which will set at higher temperatures, and at lower temperatures, they will allow your product to have a looser and creamier mouth-feel.

[Sethro]

I have seen a few recipes that created a sturdy version of the custard to cut into sheets for use in napoleans and as components of composed desserts.  I believe the recipes included cornstarch.  If you have a background in food chemicals, I would suggest experimenting with Methylcellulose food gums, which will set at higher temperatures, and at lower temperatures, they will allow your product to have a looser and creamier mouth-feel.

There's no need fo any of that. A properly cooked creme brulee ought to be able to hold a shape at higher than fridge temp. Obviously it'll need to be frozen and cut/unmolded, then and set in a shell or on a base so you never have to handle it once its thawed.

[chiantiglace]

I have seen a few recipes that created a sturdy version of the custard to cut into sheets for use in napoleans and as components of composed desserts.  I believe the recipes included cornstarch.  If you have a background in food chemicals, I would suggest experimenting with Methylcellulose food gums, which will set at higher temperatures, and at lower temperatures, they will allow your product to have a looser and creamier mouth-feel.

There's no need fo any of that. A properly cooked creme brulee ought to be able to hold a shape at higher than fridge temp. Obviously it'll need to be frozen and cut/unmolded, then and set in a shell or on a base so you never have to handle it once its thawed.

I second that.

I have actually done this many times. I have worked under pastry chefs that told me it couldn't be done, then low and behold I have extracted a 10x2" creme brulee that holds itself just fine.

Just off the top of my head, I think the ratio is
1 qt heavy cream
9 large egg yolks
6 oz sugar

bake it, cool it, freeze it, extract it and allow it to come up to the proper holding temperature.

I do suggest that if you are going to be using it for "retail" an these will be sitting exposed to air that you cover them in some way. If you caramelize them the sugar will turn to syrup within a the first 30 minutes. You can easily spray them with chocolate and that will help hold them significantly longer, and just put some bubble sugar with them or something.

Edited by chiantiglace, 21 February 2007 - 02:23 PM.

[Qui]

Thanks for all the input. I just baked off a batch today, and will find out how they come out tomorrow.

[Qui]

Just a question of baking method for creme brulee.

Conventional oven: it is possible to bake at 210F with no water bath? or should it always be baked in a water bath?

Convection oven: no water bath at 300F. can you bake with water bath? will water bath in convection do harm or it is just not necessary?

Just a general question on water bath... does it matter what temp your oven is when you bake with a water bath. I have seen recipe having ovens at 300F, 325F 350F, even 375F. I understand that using a water bath is to regulate temperature for even bake, so that the temperature of your product would not exceed boiling point.

Thank you very much!

Edited by Qui, 04 July 2007 - 02:10 PM.

[jumanggy]

Hi Qui,
I've only made creme brulees once-- Pierre Herme's recipe (Triple Creme off the Chocolate Desserts book). I used a regular oven set at 100 degrees celsius without a water bath (as the recipe directed) and they set with no problem.

As for your other questions, you make good points! I'll let the experts answer, though

[Marlene]

I make creme brulee often, and after having tried several methods and temps, I've settled on a 325 regular oven with water bath. Using a convection oven, the fan tended to blow the custard around water bath or no.

[Intellidepth]

After reading this whole merged thread to this point...

I tried the Le Cirque recipe mentioned earlier in this thread last night. Found it very rich for my taste and it left substantial fatty residual on my tongue so will be attempting a '3/4 to 1/4' or '1/2 to 1/2' heavy cream and milk combo as I can't get half-and-half where I live in Australia. I'm assuming that to hold its texture with less cream fat content it'll need more yolks. So I'll add a couple. And more sugar - I found it too close to untreated cream for a straight dessert on its own. Perhaps Le Cirque regularly use other infusions and plating options that add to the overall flavour experience?

I used the "quarter-size" wobble in the middle as my test point (took 1 hr 30 minutes to cook in taller ramekins), and they refrigerated overnight with fabulous texture by morning.

I was surprised at the uniformity of the set in each ramekin particularly given the hot-spots in my domestic gas oven, which I attribute to nightscotsman's 1/8th inch waterbath 'heat-sink' concept which worked beautifully.

I used foil lightly over the batch, however I will individually put foil over the next batch as I found the tops that were closer to the very loose edges of foil in my hot-spots in the gas oven started to bubble (although the texture underneath was perfect).

I used everyones bubble-reduction ideas with the exception of the blow torch and the bang on the bench.

So thanks. I'm going to attempt the next trial batch.

[alanamoana]

I used foil lightly over the batch, however I will individually put foil over the next batch as I found the tops that were closer to the very loose edges of foil in my hot-spots in the gas oven started to bubble (although the texture underneath was perfect).

Do you mean that you will individually wrap each ramekin? I think you'd be better served making sure you have a tight seal over the entire pan. The purpose of the water bath is to control the temperature and moist environment around your brulees. I think that covering each ramekin would defeat the purpose. But, hey, I've been wrong before!

[Intellidepth]

Trial Batch 2
Comments: This modified recipe too eggy-custard-like in flavour rather than 'creme'. Using extract as a cheaper version while I'm experimenting with textures. Too much extract - added to custard-like flavour.

Modified recipe:
6 yolks (will try with 5 next batch) from 69g free-range eggs
¼ cup caster sugar
2tsp vanilla extract (will try with 1 1/2 tsp next batch)
250ml cream
250ml milk

Put the tempered strained mix back into the saucepan and brought to 75*C. (This decreased the baking time by more than half!)

Zapped the remaining bubbles after straining/skimming with domestic gas lighter. Wow. It worked beautifully!

Water-bathed 1/8th inch at 160*C in domestic gas oven with foil over each individual ramekin top, slightly vented at the side for 40 minutes. Set beautifully to 'jello' level evenly across the ramekin. Found that the one that was better sealed had a beautiful result.

Have yet to taste+texture test final refrigerated version including checking surface thickness. Alanamoana: I may need to completely foil-cover the pan for moisture, but as I only have 1/2 inch high pans to work with, it was a little tricky to try whilst handling boiling water in a shallow pan. I'll have to get a deep roasting pan. On my wishlist at the sales after Xmas!

Am I being a perfectionist? Probably.

Edited by Intellidepth, 19 December 2007 - 10:03 PM.

[alanamoana]

Have yet to taste+texture test final refrigerated version including checking surface thickness. Alanamoana: I may need to completely foil-cover the pan for moisture, but as I only have 1/2 inch high pans to work with, it was a little tricky to try whilst handling boiling water in a shallow pan. I'll have to get a deep roasting pan. On my wishlist at the sales after Xmas!

Am I being a perfectionist? Probably.

i don't know how easy they are to find in australia, but in restaurants we use 'hotel pans' to bake brulees in. cheaper than roasting pans and useful for many things. you can get them at restaurant supply places.


edited to add: no problem with being a perfectionist! have fun with it and know that you save us lazy people a lot of time when we use your methods that have already been tested

Edited by alanamoana, 19 December 2007 - 05:36 PM.

[Intellidepth]

Batch 2 taste and texture

Yum - 3 1/2 year old son and I polished them off. However it was like a light, smooth sweet custard.

Batch 3 - ohhh dear.

Nope. Still tastes like custard and sets like custard - too set for a 'creme' for my tongue and I think if I reduce the eggs back by 1 in this 50/50 mixture it might be too close to a liquid to brulee.

I'll have to try 3/4 cream and 1/4 milk for 'creme' texture. Back to 1tsp vanilla extract as I am now fairly confident the increased sugar is heightening its flavour somehow. Back to 4 eggs/500ml dairy to remove eggy-custard flavour.

Stuck the batch in a higher pre-heated oven and was quicker about things so it curdled ever so slightly around the edges. EDIT: it curdled all the way through on most.

Tried bruleeing with my domestic gas lighter HAH! Off to buy a proper torch.

Edited by Intellidepth, 19 December 2007 - 11:43 PM.

[Intellidepth]

Batch 4 was not a success using the same recipe as batch 5, which was - I just used a different cooking technique.

I went back to a long bake (not re-heating the tempered mix in a saucepan prior to baking) after reading material elsewhere on the change in texture that occurs with the same batch recipe over a short and long bake.

Longer=creamier. Reheated+Shorter=more fragile and more likely to overcook (yeah, I can vouch for that, Batches 3+4, although I got it close to spot on with Batch 2).

I gave Batch 5 a dual attempt - one with a half-height bath and foil over the whole container and the other with a 1/8th inch bath and ramekins individually foil sealed. After 60 minutes the half-height bath lot was a complete ruin with thoroughly scrambled egg and a whey underlayer. The 1/8th inch batch was a creamy success!

I'll reduce the cook time to 50 minutes for Batch 6 as there was an ever so slightly overcooked top edge that I wasn't happy with. The perfectionist in me again.

After Batch 6 I think I'll just pack it in. After eating 'creme' for breakfast, lunch and dinner, I've about had my dose for the next six months! Not to mention the three dozen egg whites sitting in my fridge...

[gfron1]

just letting you know I'm fascinated by this and can't wait til you find the perfect one. So, are these all being eaten?

[Intellidepth]

gfron1: the gaping mouth of my kitchen sink is devouring most of them.

Apologies for this long post... its here for future generations

‘Crème’ Experiment 6
Texture: very thick creme, like double-cream/King Island Cream for those in Australia.
Sweetness: just enough to enhance the vanilla
Vanilla: enough to be distinctive without turning it into a full vanilla custard flavour

Recipe:
4 yolks from 59g eggs
¼ cup sugar
1 tsp vanilla extract
375ml cream (1 ½ cups)
125ml milk (1/2 cup)
(Serves 4)
-----
Oven 150*C. Rack in centre of oven. Boil water in kettle.
Mix yolks, sugar and extract with silicone spatula in 1L jug.
Heat cream and milk to 85*C in heavy-based medium saucepan, stirring gently. Take off heat, continue to stir and cool to 75*C to avoid scrambling when tempering (dairy mix may rise to 90*C before dropping).
Temper egg mix: very slowly pour dairy mix into yolk mix by teaspoonfuls (approx.) incorporating well after each addition. After about 5 teaspoons, start adding in tablespoon quantities and then ¼ cup quantities until about 1/3rd of the egg mix is tempered, then add the rest of the dairy mix and stir briefly.
Strain into another 1L jug.
Skim off bubbles.
Pour into ramekins gently.
Torch fine bubbles to remove them. A domestic gas lighter is fine.
Individually foil seal the ramekins (double layer) and place in thin metal tray.
Water bath 1/8th inch using boiled water in thin metal tray.
Bake: 55-60 minutes. Bench-top cool-down to room temp with foil removed to prevent condensation.
Refrigerate overnight, covered with plastic wrap.

Equipment:
2 x 1L jugs
5ml teaspoon
63ml cup (¼ cup) measure
250ml cup (1 cup) measure
2 x silicone spatulas or wooden spoons
Heavy-based medium saucepan
Candy thermometer
Fine strainer to fit in/over a 1L jug
Domestic gas lighter
Foil
Thin metal tray(s)
Ramekins: four x 2½” wide x 2” tall

Notes of wisdom: cooking time will depend on the size, shape, thickness and density of ramekins, the thickness of the metal tray, and the temperamentality of one’s oven.

Notes of regret: reducing the bake time by 10 minutes (from 60) didn't affect the tiny overcooked top edge which may have to do with the shape of my ramekins - widening towards the top.

Notes of interest: it's amazing how close this recipe is to the original considering every ingredient received alteration and experimentation.

And thus ceases my interest in my favourite dessert for a few months.

Edited by Intellidepth, 22 December 2007 - 12:18 AM.

[jsmeeker]

This is a great thread. I love custards of all types. I've made creme caramels, pot de cremes, etc. before with good results. But I never made creme brulee because I never had or got around to buying a torch to do the actual brulee. Well, I received a small kitchen torch as a Christmas gift, and I finally got around to making some creme brulee last weekend.

As I've read through this thread, most of the talk has been about how to bake them. Water bath or not. Convection oven or conventional. Oven temp. etc. There has also been some suggestions on how to deal with bubbles (something I ran into in my attempt last weekend), the best way to brulee (equipment, type of sugar, etc). It's all been very informative and I have learned some things. (skim off bubbles/and or use the torch to get rid of them prior to baking. Suggestions to let the custard mixture to sit overnight in the fridge prior to baking. Stuff like that.

But one thing I haven't seen too much discussion on is the actual custard mixture. One thing I have been frustrated with in looking at recipes is that the ones I find from sources I trust tend to be sized to make a lot of servings. Like eight. While this may be great if you are hosting a dinner party, it's not so great if you are single and don't host big dinner parties. Sure, I could eat a couple of them each day, but that may not be the best idea long term.

So, in my attempt to figure out how to make a more manageable number of servings, I started to think about ratios. Most specifically, the ratio of egg to dairy. I started to look at some recipes from trusted sources (Cook's Illustrated). I also read through a book I recieved as part of my Christmas gift. What I found was that a ratio of 3 eggs to 1 cup cream was pretty "standard". Armed with this new found knowledge and my new Creme Brulee cookbook, I headed to the kitchen. Instead of following the recipe to a "T", which would make six servings, I essentially halfed it. The ratio of egg yolk to cream stayed the same. I used 3 yolks and 1 cup of cream. I cut back some on the amount of vanilla bean I put into the cream. I kind of halfed the amount of sugar called for (used a couple of table spoons). Poured it out into three pyrex custard cups (which yielded a proper portion for each) and baked them in a water bath at about 300. I checked them at about 30 minutes. They seemed to have goen past the still jiggly in the middle phase. I got a little worried that maybe they had over baked. I let them cool for several hours. Pulled one out, sprinked on the sugar, torched it, stuck it back in the fridge for about 15 minutes, then pulled it back out and ate it.

It was great! I thought the texture was just fine. Maybe it could have been a little softer, but it seemed to be inline with a lot of creme brulees I've had in restaurants. So, armed with my knowledge, it seems like making creme brulee is easily scaleable. If I need to make 4, I use 4 eggs and 1 1/3 cups of cream. It should work, shouldn't it?

I think I'll make up a new batch of custard tonight. But this time, I'll let it sit over night before baking. Also, I am going to try a espresso flavored variation. Instant espresso powder disolved in a bit of water will go into the egg/cream mixture. I may add a splash of coffee liqueur as well. (my book calls for this). If I get any bubbles on the top after pouring into the little dishes, I'll torch them away. (I love using the torch). And I'll keep a better eye on the baking time. Check them earlier this time around.


Anyway, thanks again for all the tips/tricks so far. If you have any about the ratios of egg to dairy (cream), fire away. I love, love, love custards, and will happily experiment with making them.

[iii_bake]

This is a great thread.  I love custards of all types.  I've made creme caramels, pot de cremes, etc.  before with good results. But I never made creme brulee because I never had or got around to buying a torch to do the actual brulee.  Well,  I received a small kitchen torch as a Christmas gift, and I finally got around to making some creme brulee last weekend.

As I've read through this thread, most of the talk has been about how to bake them. Water bath or not. Convection oven or conventional.  Oven temp. etc.  There has also been some suggestions on how to deal with bubbles (something I ran into in my attempt last weekend), the best way to brulee (equipment, type of sugar, etc).  It's all been very informative and I have learned some things.  (skim off bubbles/and or use the torch to get rid of them prior to baking.  Suggestions to let the custard mixture to sit overnight in the fridge prior to baking. Stuff like that.

But one thing I haven't seen too much discussion on is the actual custard mixture.  One thing I have been frustrated with in looking at recipes is that the ones I find from sources I trust tend to be sized to make a lot of servings. Like eight.  While this may be great if you are hosting a dinner party, it's not so great if you are single and don't host big dinner parties. Sure, I could eat a couple of them each day, but that may not be the best idea long term. 

So, in my attempt to figure out how to make a more manageable number of servings, I started to think about ratios.  Most specifically, the ratio of egg to dairy.  I started to look at some recipes from trusted sources (Cook's Illustrated).  I also read through a book I recieved as part of my Christmas gift.  What I found was that  a ratio of 3 eggs to 1 cup cream was pretty "standard". Armed with this new found knowledge and my new Creme Brulee cookbook,  I headed to the kitchen.    Instead of following the recipe to a "T", which would make six servings, I essentially halfed it.  The ratio of egg yolk to cream stayed the same.  I used 3 yolks and 1 cup of cream.  I cut back some on the amount of vanilla bean I put into the cream.  I kind of halfed the amount of sugar called for (used a couple of table spoons).  Poured it out into three pyrex custard cups (which yielded a proper portion for each)  and baked them in a water bath at about 300.  I checked them at about 30 minutes.  They seemed to have goen past the still jiggly in the middle phase.  I got a little worried that maybe they had over baked.  I let them cool for several hours.  Pulled one out, sprinked on the sugar, torched it, stuck it back in the fridge for about 15 minutes, then pulled it back out and ate it.

It was great!  I thought the texture was just fine.  Maybe it could have been a little softer, but it seemed to be inline with a lot of creme brulees I've had in restaurants.  So, armed with my knowledge, it seems like making creme brulee is easily scaleable.    If I need to make 4,  I use 4 eggs and 1 1/3 cups of cream.  It should work, shouldn't it?

I think I'll make up a new batch of custard tonight. But this time, I'll let it sit over night before baking.  Also, I am going to try a espresso flavored variation.  Instant espresso powder disolved in a bit of water will go into the egg/cream mixture. I may add a splash of coffee liqueur as well. (my book calls for this).  If I get any bubbles on the top after pouring into the little dishes, I'll torch them away. (I love using the torch). And I'll keep a better eye on the baking time. Check them earlier this time around.


Anyway, thanks again for all the tips/tricks so far. If you have any about the ratios of egg to dairy (cream),  fire away.    I love, love, love custards, and will happily experiment with making them.

did the vanilla seed sink to the bottom?

[jsmeeker]

did the vanilla seed sink to the bottom?

yes it did.. I forgot to mention that. :)

[alanamoana]

jsmeeker: if you've chilled your brulee for several hours, there's no need to put it back in the fridge after torching. just torch and let it sit until the sugar gets hard again (should be within a minute or two) and eat!

[jsmeeker]

jsmeeker:  if you've chilled your brulee for several hours, there's no need to put it back in the fridge after torching.  just torch and let it sit until the sugar gets hard again (should be within a minute or two) and eat!

thanks for the tip.. I'll give it a try on the next batch.


The brief chill after torching was a tip I had picked up from the Cook's Illustrated folks.

[alanamoana]

i think it might only be a consideration if the torch is too weak and it takes too long to caramelize the sugar. if that's the case, the custard underneath sort of melts and warms up so you need to put it back into the fridge to allow the custard and sugar to firm up.

using a torch from home depot (bernz-o-matic) with a propane tank, this shouldn't be a problem. i don't know how big or how hot your particular torch is...half the fun in being a pastry chef is the pyromaniac factor!

[jsmeeker]

i think it might only be a consideration if the torch is too weak and it takes too long to caramelize the sugar.  if that's the case, the custard underneath sort of melts and warms up so you need to put it back into the fridge to allow the custard and sugar to firm up.

using a torch from home depot (bernz-o-matic) with a propane tank, this shouldn't be a problem.  i don't know how big or how hot your particular torch is...half the fun in being a pastry chef is the pyromaniac factor! 

it''s the only torch I have used, so I can't compare it to a plumber's torch. I'll just try torching and letting it sit a minute or two next time (which will be tonight). I'll report back.

[Art]

I've never been too pleased with the wimpy kitchen torches used for Creme Brulee for a whole host of reasons. Besides not being as hot as I'd like, I've not found one that I have been happy with from a quality standpoint. I know there are some really expensive mini-torches used industrially but these are very expensive (often a few hundred dollars).

So, what I have ended up using is a MAPP gas torch. This uses basically the same head as those el-cheapo propane torches from the hardware store but the MAPP gas is hotter and what's more isn't prone to going out or gas pressure fluctuations like the propane torches are.

The MAPP gas is a bit more expensive than propane but Oh, so worth it....

Go look for it in the plumbing or tool section of your local hardware store and I'm sure you will be satisfied.

-Art

[CalumC]

I've not looked at this thread before, but by the looks of it, when making creme brulee you all bake them in a bain marie in the oven. Anytime i've made them, ive made a custard on the stove and chilled it, then caramelised the sugar on top of it. Is this an odd method?

[JeanneCake]

No, it's just different. Roland Mesnier uses this method for the creme brulees in his books and I can attest to the fact that his Champagne Creme Brulee with sugared grapes is a big hit!

[misstenacity]

Has anyone made a creme brulee where the ONLY sugar was in the brulee - the custard below is just cream and eggs.... not even vanilla to mess with the flavor.

Is this the "true" creme brulee? Or is vanilla bean the accepted formula (should this be on the purist thread?)? :-)

[KevinS]

So, this may seem silly to a lot of you guys, but I am having serious trouble being consistent with my Crème brûlées at the place that I work at.

I do not cook them, I only put the sugar on the top and torch them before sending them out, but they seem to never be consistent. Sometimes they come out beautiful and perfect, sometimes it seems to be way too thin, sometimes the sugar never sets, and I'm pretty sure I'm doing the same method every time!

I have such different results during the same day, so I know something like humidity probably isn't to blame. I'm sure it's me, I just don't know why.

Any ideas?

P.S. My method for sugaring them is to pour the sugar on top, turn the brulée to let it get everywhere, and turn it upside down to let the excess fall off, and then repeat, then burn. This is how I was shown to do it, if anyone has any better ways I am totally open to suggestions!

[cookingkid]

On a similar vein as problems with custards, I am noticing a separation of my custard for a pot de creme. The only reason why I know it looks like a separation is because we serve them in 8 oz. mason jars.

The separation doesn't always occur, or at least it doesn't occur in a patterned fashion. The part on top (same 2/3 of the container) tastes and feels like a traditional custard. The bottom 1/3 is set but tastes eggier.

I originally thought we weren't stirring the custard base enough before putting it in the vessels. Now, I'm wondering if removing the custards from the bain upon being set might be the problem. In other words, should I keep the custards in the bain marie during the cool down of the pots?

Thanks if anyone has some advice.