419 replies to this topic

[sgreen0]

OK! It's crunch time. Dinner on Saturday!

I'm having difficulty in the olive department. For Chicken with lemons and Olives Emshmel from Paula's book (Couscous, etc.), what kind of olives should I look for. I don't seem to find olives called "cracked" or "green-brown". I was in Gelsen's in LA and found most of the usual names including just "Green". I did find Picholines and "Moroccan oil cured olives" - these were very dark and dry.

I've got two tagines from tagines.com. One Rifi and one Beldi - this one is glazed on the outside of the top and the inside of the bottom. I cured both - the Rifi with ashes and oil; it looks quite good now. I'm making the chicken in one (the Rifi, I think) and Lamb with prunes and Apples in the other.

Sorry no pics - my digital camera is out for repairs...

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Stephen
Los Angeles

[Wolfert]

The book was written back in the early seventies when very few olive varieties were available in the US market.
I suggest you use Picholines when a Moroccan recipe calls for green olives.

For the green-brown olives, I use Mustapha's Bigardier (red) olives from chefshop.com or Turkish red ta-ze from Taste of Turkey.com. Stephen, if you don't have the time to order the green-brown aka 'red,' then just substitute California Grabers.

Edited by Wolfert, 01 November 2006 - 10:39 AM.

[sgreen0]

The book was written back in the early seventies when very few olive varieties were available in the US market.
I suggest you use Picholines when a Moroccan recipe calls for green olives.

For the green-brown olives, I use  Mustapha's Bigardier (red) olives from chefshop.com or Turkish red ta-ze from Taste of Turkey.com. Stephen, if you don't have the time to order the green-brown aka 'red,' then just substitute California Grabers.

Thanks so much. I'll have to use Grabers due to time limitations. I should have asked earlier.

I have read (in this thread) that traditional tagines need less water in the recipes. Do you have a suggestion for the degree of reduction - half, 1/3?

Thanks again.

Stephen

[Wolfert]

It depends upon the size of the tagine. I would add about 1/2 inch of water.

[sgreen0]

It depends upon the size of the tagine. I would add about 1/2 inch of water.

Thanks. Some more questions (sorry).

1) I read in an earlier post that coking times are increased in traditional tagines. Did I understand that correctly - perhaps in was in a conversation about braziers. I'm cooking over electric elements covered with heat diffusers.

The chicken says 1 hour and the lamb 2. Should I allow for more?

2) I'm planning to prepare the filling for the bisteeya the day before. If possible, I'd like to do more that day.

Can your Harira II be made in advance. I could work it up to (and including) Step 4. The reheat the soup the next day and add the noodles and egg/lemon mixture. What do you think?

Can any part of the tagine recipes (Chicken Emshmel and Lamb with Prunes and Apples) be made in advance?

I much appreciate your (and others') advice.

Stephen

[Wolfert]

QUOTE(Wolfert @ Nov 1 2006, 11:11 AM)
It depends upon the size of the tagine. I would add about 1/2 inch of water.
*



Thanks. Some more questions (sorry).

1) I read in an earlier post that coking times are increased in traditional tagines. Did I understand that correctly - perhaps in was in a conversation about braziers. I'm cooking over electric elements covered with heat diffusers.

[FONT=Optima] The lamb is delicious when cooked for an extra hour in a tagine.
I would change the chicken recipe and use legs and thighs. The cooking time will be about one hour.
[FONT=Optima]
T
2) I'm planning to prepare the filling for the bisteeya the day before. If possible, I'd like to do more that day.[FONT=Optima] It's fine to prepare the three parts of the bisteeya in advance. Don't bake it until one hour before serving. [FONT=Optima]

your Harira II be made in advance. I could work it up to (and including) Step 4. The reheat the soup the next day and add the noodles and egg/lemon mixture. What do you think?[FONT=Optima] I think it's fine. [FONT=Optima]

Can any part of the tagine recipes (Chicken Emshmel and Lamb with Prunes and Apples) be made in advance?[FONT=Optima] I wouldn't cook the tagine in advance.[FONT=Optima]

I much appreciate your (and others') advice

Edited by Wolfert, 02 November 2006 - 12:04 PM.

[sgreen0]

Thanks. Some more questions (sorry).

1) I read in an earlier post that coking times are increased in traditional tagines. Did I understand that correctly - perhaps in was in a conversation about braziers. I'm cooking over electric elements covered with heat diffusers.

The lamb is delicious when cooked for an extra hour in a tagine.

I would change the chicken recipe and use legs and thighs. The cooking time will be about one hour.

2) I'm planning to prepare the filling for the bisteeya the day before. If possible, I'd like to do more that day.[

It's fine to prepare the three parts of the bisteeya in advance. Don't bake it until one hour before serving.

your Harira II be made in advance. I could work it up to (and including) Step 4. The reheat the soup the next day and add the noodles and egg/lemon mixture. What do you think?

I think it's fine.

Can any part of the tagine recipes (Chicken Emshmel and Lamb with Prunes and Apples) be made in advance?

I wouldn't cook the tagine in advance.


Thanks. Report to come...

Stephen

Edited by sgreen0, 04 November 2006 - 07:39 AM.

[sgreen0]

Well!

The Moroccan dinner is history. It went extremely well.

The menu ended up like this:

Spiced Olives and Nuts
Bisteeya
served with Ginger Pomegranate Champagne Cocktails

Moroccan Orange Salad

Harira

Pomegranate Granita

Tagine of Lamb with Prunes and Apples
Tagine of Chicken with Olives and Lemon
Spiced Couscous
Spiced Carrots
Moroccan Bread
served with Amazir Maroc Beni M'Tir red wine

M'hanncha (the snake) - we made small individual coils
Moroccan Cake (Le Russe)
Moroccan Oranges
served with Moroccan Mint Tea and Spiced Coffee

I want to thank everyone on this board who contributed to this thread. I learned a lot from you. Special thanks to Paula, whose recipes for Bisteeya, Tagines, Bread, Tea, and Coffee were nothing short of fabulous, and to BekkiM, who generously shared her recipes for the Champagne, Olives, Nuts, Carrots and Couscous.

I had planned to include some photos, but our recently repaired camera didn't cooperate - back to Nikon it goes.

I was surprised at how easy it was to use the tagines (one Rifi and one Beldi). I did use heat diffusers as it was my first time. They seemed quite efficient allowing the tagines to bubble away with the element set to 2 or 3 (out of 9).

Both tagines had excess liquid - especially the lamb. I removed some and reduced some and all was fine. Both meats fell from the bone and melted in the mouth.

The Graber Olives recommended by Paula were amazing - meaty and rich.

I used Preserved Lemons from zamourispices.com. What an amazing depth of flavor! Next time, I'll try to find time to make some myself.

I was unsuccessful in finding Mahia (Mahya) a Fig Eau-de-vie of the Moroccan Jews. In my search I was surprised to find a Fig Vodka (from Germany of all places). It is only 40 proof and on tasting was almost like an aperitif (fairly sweet). So I offered that to wrap it all up.

I'm pleased to report that all our guest left happy and overfed!

Thanks again to everyone.

Stephen

[joancassell]

Paula, I've spent a great deal of time trying to prepare a "red" chicken from the Slow Mediterranean Kitchen to cook in my new Rifi tagine (oiled but no ashes available to "age"). But try as I can, I can't figure out how to "twist each wing back up over the neck and fasten legs, wings and neck with one bamboo skewer". Help!
I'm looking forward to your new claypot book.
jc

[Wolfert]

You make the yoga pose called "forward bend" or Paschimothanasanalynn

and it looks like this.....http:///forums.egullet.org/uploads/1111284467/gallery_8703_972_762.jpg

Edited by Wolfert, 04 December 2006 - 03:25 PM.

[joancassell]

Thanks Paula! I saw that photo and description earlier on this thread, but still was unable to follow it. When Googled the yoga position you named (being unenlightened re yoga) it brought me to your description -- no other entries. How about describing it via Pilates!
I think perhaps I've figured it out, but I still don't see how one skewer holds the entire thing - I ended up with two, and a somewhat mauled chicken after all those yoga positions.

[Robin W]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post on the board. Thanks to everyone who has participated in the thread so far, it has been quite informative and enjoyable to read.

I have a couple of questions regarding a tagine that I was given as a gift recently. (It was purchased from a store called Haven in Toronto). I hope that this is the appropriate place to post them.

Some pictures....











To the questions:

1 - I am quite concerned about lead as I have read that certain tagines can leach lead into the food. How can I be sure that the tagine is lead free? Does the fact that it is unglazed (I am pretty sure it is unglazed as there is no shine at all) mean that I don't have to worry about lead? Is there anything abnormal about the green colouration on the underside of the lid?

2 - The bottom does not seem to be of the southern Moroccan rounded variety but nor is it flat. I imagine that it would rest on most of the points of a simmer mat. I am using an electric coil stove. Does this sound about right?

3 - As the interior is unfinished it is quite rough and it looks like small bits of clay will rub off into the food over time - is that abnormal?

Sorry about all the questions. I can't wait to start using it but just want to be sure that it is entirely safe first.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take a stab at some answers,

Robin

[Smithy]

Hi, Robin!

That's a nice-looking tagine. Congratulations: what a great gift!

As far as I know, the only time you have to worry about lead is with the glaze, not with the clay itself. There are lead-checking kits you can buy that involve leaving a test solution soaking in the pot for some set period of time, then pouring off some of the liquid into another test solution and looking for a color change. Even though I've used that very test kit, I can't remember quite what's in it. (I do know where to look, so if you need a reference let me know.) I would restrict its use to the interior of the lid and not the cooking pot itself, since the clay may be porous enough to take up some of the test solution. Personally, I don't think I'd worry about lead with this tagine.

I still haven't gotten around to a simmer mat, but I do cook on electric coils. If you find the tagine too wobbly, look around for a wok ring. My rounded-bottom clay pots fit nicely on that over the coils.

As to the rough interior finish: judging by your pictures, I'm thinking it's about the normal level of roughness - which is to say that you'll never mistake it for fine china or porcelain but you don't have to worry about erosion. If the clay is well-fired, it won't rub off with time. A very rough surface might lose smalll bits like grains of sand into your food, but you'll know about that in a hurry. My guess is that you won't notice a change in the finish, unless the tagine builds up an interior coating. (Mine hasn't.)

Enjoy!

[Wolfert]

I agree with Smithy.

But after following all the curing advice above, if you still have a grainy texture on the interior of the tagine base, here is what you should do:Pour a good amount of whole milk into the tagine and place it in a cold oven; turn the oven to 300 degrees F.;let the milk simmer for about an hour; allow the milk to cool in the tagine in the oven;rinse the tagine and dry it well; and then lightly rub the interior with olive oil.

Edited by Wolfert, 21 December 2006 - 09:11 AM.

[Robin W]

Thanks for responding so quickly. I think I'll buy one of those lead check kits just to make sure. I can't wait to get cooking.

Thanks,
Robin

[Smithy]

*bump*

Robin, I realize we're just coming off the holidays, but I'm wondering. Did you try that lead checking kit? If so, how did you use it (i.e. in the lid?) and what were the results?

[scott123]

Would sanding the rough parts of a tagine be that bad of an idea?

I had some rough parts on some fire brick I was using for a pizza oven and, although it chewed up the sandpaper, I found sanding helped to smooth things out a bit.

[Wolfert]

IMHO you should keep the porous parts of the tagine oiled.

[andiesenji]

Check out these glazed terra cotta tagines at Sur La Table.

The larger one is 13 inches in diameter and holds enough to serve 6 people (or more, depending on the size of the servings).
The smaller one is 8 1/2 inches in diameter but is deep and besides using as a tagine, it makes a great oven baker for a pot pie or a fruit cobbler.

[joancassell]

I have a question for Paula Wolfert. I've made your Moroccan bread twice now. It turned out well, but I was unable to figure out how to roll it around the inside of a bowl to make it round. It ended up kind of strange looking. Would just shaping it into a ball, turning the edges under, as one does with most round loaves, be okay.

[Greg99]

Hi Everyone,

This is my very first post to this www site so please forgive me if I don't post this correctly.

I am looking for some good recipes and techniques for making tagines with fresh, boneless fish filets. I live on the Gulf Coast and have access to incredibly fresh fish every day. When I have dinner parties, most of my guests prefer fish that is boneless and not too much work to eat, so I don't want to make my tagines with whole fish. I can buy fresh filets of any Gulf fish (tuna, grouper, redfish, mahi, flounder, croaker, sole, amberjack, drum, pompano, swordfish, wahoo, snapper, etc.). I'm not really an experienced tagine maker, so I don't have a good base of knowledge for experimentation. I'm worried that the fish might fall apart in the long, slow cooking process, so I'd thought I'd post here and see if anyone has some good ideas and/or experience in this area. I have access to great spices, olives and I've already made a bunch of preserved lemons, so I'm ready to go, but I'd love some input.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Greg

[Smithy]

Welcome and thrice welcome to eGullet, Greg! Come on in and set a spell.

First of all, your post came through just fine. I'm personally glad you picked this fine thread for your first post.

Now that I've brought the Welcome Wagon™ out to meet you, I have to say that I've never tried slow-cooking fish in any vessel, so I can't be much help. I think that you'll need a sturdy fish so it doesn't fall apart too quickly. For instance: tuna or swordfish, yes; grouper no. I'm wondering at what stage you'll end up with a fish stew instead of just good fish. Have you tried slow-cooking fish before? If so, what did you cook and for how long?

As for the seasonings - well, I can imagine a slow simmer (or tagine) of fish with preserved lemons and olives, and I'd think it would be pretty darned good. Somehow I don't imagine that going well with tuna, but I don't know sea fish well enough to come up with an alternative. (What fish need strong seasonings to be at their best?) I'm just thinking aloud, trying to come up with something useful. What about shrimp or mussels for this kind of treatment?

Let's hope someone with experience pops up soon. They belong to eGullet; they just have to notice this thread. Meanwhile, stick around and keep on posting!

[Abra]

I'm sure Paula will be along to give a definitive answer, but bear in mnd that "long, slow" cooking when it comes to fish is probably not more than one hour. I agree with Smithy that if you use a tight-grained fish like tuna or swordfish or mahi and keep the heat very low it'll hold together just fine. I wouldn't use snapper or any flaky fish, unless you want to end up with a more homogeneous dish with a stew-like texture, which could also be delicious. ANd personally, I think preserved lemons and olives are wonderful with tuna.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Greg - do you have any of Paula Wolfert's cookbooks? She is the Queen of Tagine cooking. As a matter of coincidence, my BF went fishing in Alaska last week and brought home 150 pounds of fish. The first one I cooked up was from Wolfert's Slow Mediterranean cookbook and is a great Tunisian recipe that I cooked with halibut. It can be significantly hot and spicy but I'm a bit of a wimp and toned it down a little and a group of six heartily enjoyed it with a side of couscous.

[Smithy]

...  ANd personally, I think preserved lemons and olives are wonderful with tuna.

I'm so glad you wrote that, Abra. I clearly wasn't thinking last night when I wrote that - or I wasn't thinking clearly. I add preserves lemons and/or olives to my tuna salads on a regular basis. Why I couldn't see it with fresh tuna is a mystery now.

[Ce'nedra]

Would I still be able to cooking a 'tagine' recipe without using a tagine?
In other words, is there a possible substitute?

[Smithy]

Would I still be able to cooking a 'tagine' recipe without using a tagine?
In other words, is there a possible substitute?

Yes.

Here are the basic requirements for the cooking vessel you need:
1. It should be heavy for its size, so it's slow to heat and cool with changes in temperature. (Lightweight aluminum is contraindicated.)
2. It should have a lid of some sort - you can augment the lid with parchment paper inside, if necessary to contain the moisture.
3. It should be able to take heat from below, as in "ok for use on the stove top". You might be surprised at what qualifies for that. I've even cooked in a Corning casserole dish on the stove top, despite the protests that it isn't flame proof.
4. I think there's a benefit to cooking in an unglazed clay pot, so if I'm going for the ideal I go for those open pores. YMMV.

I've done tagines in clay pots, Corning casserole dishes, heavy aluminum pots, cast iron chicken fryers and Le Creuset enameled cast iron. The best results came with the things that sealed tightly and heated (or cooled) slowly. The "cooling tower" lid of the tagine helps with self-basting, but there are good substitutes.

For that matter, if I hadn't blown so much money on cookware over the years that I had so many choices, I'd cheerfully cook a tagine in a lightweight casserole dish to get the flavors. You might miss some nuances, but you'd get the main benefit of the dish: the Cliff Notes version, as it were.

Let us know what you try, and how it goes!

Edited for punctuation

Edited by Smithy, 05 October 2007 - 08:33 AM.

[Ce'nedra]

Smithy: Thanks so much for all that detail :)
I'll probably give my claypot a go then -I'll get back to you guys once I do...must hunt for recipes now

[Smithy]

Smithy: Thanks so much for all that detail :)
I'll probably give my claypot a go then -I'll get back to you guys once I do...must hunt for recipes now 

Moroccan Lamb Tagine Smothered with Lemon and Olives is one I really like. I think if you look around upthread you'll find more links, too. Claypots rock!

[patrickamory]

A very interesting piece in today's Times by Florence Fabricant on comparing some of the new tagines versus a traditional unglazed one.

http://www.nytimes.c...ing/29kitc.html


She is absolutely correct that you need far less liquid when preparing a tagine in an unglazed pot.

As a first-time tagine user, can I correct what I suspect must have been a typo in Paula Wolfert's post? Surely it should read "You need far less liquid when preparing a tagine in an glazed pot."

This is what the the writer actually implies, what you would expect from a glazed pot (because the liquid condenses and drips back down into the food), and what I've read elsewhere.