1073 replies to this topic

[philadining]

...neither of us are crazy about doing business with Amish...

Mike, I don't want to get too far off-topic here, but I'd encourage you to step back a second and consider the implications of not liking to do business with "the Amish" because some Amish families run puppy mills.

I'm just saying that it's dangerous to generalize about any group, be it ethnic, religious, national, regional, whatever. If you don't like the practices of a particular individual, by all means, you're within your rights to not do business with him. But avoiding others because they share a religious or cultural background seems unfair.

I've known some Amish families and I'm distressed by the implication that they are to be avoided because of the behavior of some of their neighbors.

I don't mean to come down on you Mike, I can see one would get the sense that the community as a whole is engaged in some sort of practice if you see a lot of it around you, but I just think it's important for all of us to try to remember not to stereotype and assume that all members of some group, whatever that group might be, are the same.

I don't mean to imply that the Amish are beyond reproach, if you can show me that the specific Amish vendors at the RTM are engaged in distasteful practices, I might choose to avoid them too. But if not, I'll continue to buy from them, just as I will from any other folks who might share an ethnic, religious or regional heritage with someone I don't agree with.

Edited by philadining, 10 December 2005 - 04:06 PM.

[lancastermike]

I understand your point and will not comment beyond that as it would not be a food topic and does not belong here. If you want to send me a note I would comment on some things I have found to be true.

[rlibkind]

Fish choices got more interesting today with herring at Yi's and Golden, though Yi's called them "herring" and Golden called them "sardines". But same fish, same size.

That's the "herring" at John Yi behind the cod tails, priced at $2.99 -- same price as the "sardines" at Golden. Yi's also had spearing at $3.99/pound. Golden also had whole bronzino at $5.99 and arctic char at $6.99. One of the fishmongers at Golden told me it was wild char, which certainly is possible, although two-thirds of the char that reaches market is farmed. (If you haven't had it, char is a salmonid, like salmon and trout. Also, char farms are still small scale and are environmentally isolated, so they don't create some of the problems that can accompany salmon aquaculture.) Dry scallops at Golden up to $14.99/pound.

Harry Ochs has started to carry White Marble Farms pork products. Haven't tried it yet, but it's purportedly a fattier, more marbled product. Produced by a consortium of Midwestern farms. I'll have to try it to see how it compares to local Country Time sold by Fair Food Farmstand; the latter is excellent pork. Neither White Marble nor Country Time, however, comes from heritage pig.

At Iovine's, limes down to a dime apiece; lemons 20-cents. Avocados remain at $1 each. And there are still small red and yellow bell peppers at 99-cents/pound; the yellows are up to $2.99. The bulb fennel looked good this week. Hmmm. Pasta con sardo, anyone? You can still get prickly pear (cactus pear) at OK Lee Produce for 99-cents apiece; the margaritas I made from them last week were delicious (equal parts fruit pulp, lime juice, tequila and Triple Sec).

What I did not see on sale at the RTM today was reindeer meet. Guess I'll have to visit D'Angelo has it on 9th Street for that!

[rlibkind]

Fish choices got more interesting today with herring at Yi's and Golden, though Yi's called them "herring" and Golden called them "sardines" . . . priced at $2.99.

Price update: add $1 a pound for cleaning, at least at Golden. I bought them today, and since I didn't have time nor feel like gutting them at the kitchen sink, I spent the extra $. At least this morning, the "sardines" at Golden looked better than the "herring" at John Yi's.

I was at the Market about 8:30 and by the time I left at 10 a.m. it was crowded.

Benuel Kaufman still had cider, but only half-gallons.

[rlibkind]

Fish galore today in preparation for Christmas. If you consider yourself a fish lover, now is the time to indulge, because you will never find a bigger variety of high quality fish than now.

Smelts, for example. You can get smelts year-round, but they are almost always previously frozen. Not this week. Yes, you can pick up the the formerly frozen smelts. But the tiny fresh ones look absolutely scrumptious, $3.99 a pound at John Yi. I picked up some which I'll dip in milk, flour then fry 'til they are crispy brown. Eat them with or without bones, as you prefer.

BTW, the herring/sardines I picked up last weekend were delicious. I simply oiled the filets, broiled them with salt and pepper, and enjoyed them with beer and good bread and butter.

Lots of other varieties of fish and shellfish to choose from. Yi's had king, snow and dungeness crab legs (all frozen) as well as a variety of lobster tails. Lots of shrimps, too. You could get langoustines (a.k.a. scampi, Dublin prawns and lots of other names) for $19.99/pound at Wan. (They stock them regularly, not just at Christmas.) Looking at the big whole carp in John Yi's display case, I thought it was Passover and time to make gefilte fish, not Hanukah. Golden still had arctic char at $5.99. Among fin fish, John Yi's Spanish mackerel looked good at $2.99.

(The fish bonanza even extends to supermarkets. At the Columbus Boulevard Super Fresh yesterday I saw dry scallops at $16.99/pound, as well as whole frozen octopus and any number of other seafood items not normally sold there.)

Fisher's in the Pennsylvania Dutch section always has nice selection of "penny" candy sold in bags for considerably more than a penny. If you like hard Christmas candy, stop by and pick up a bag.

Jamison lamb is finally in stock at Fair Food Project, though it didn't arrive until this afternoon, disappointing customers who reserved lamb and tried to claim it this morning. In addition to legs (all of this week's stock claimed, except perhaps for one as of 3 p.m. today -- it may be gone by now), this week Fair Food offers Jamison's boneless shoulder, cubes, shanks, sausage and ground. If you have something in mind you'd like to reserve in the future, call Ann Karlen at 610-626-5220.

Both L.L. Halteman and Godshall's Poultry are offering goose this week. These big birds go for about $3.89/pound. (The D'Artagnan whole goose I spied at Super Fresh yesterday was being sold for about twice that price.) If you don't want the goose schmaltz but want a rich tasting piece of bird meat, both sell Muscovy duck, including boneless breasts.

Last weekend at Coastal Cave I picked up a quarter pound of Duck Trap Farms' "Winter Harbor" smoked salmon. It was okay, but it was sliced much too thickly (by machine, I presume) and its "dark matter" left untrimmed. Not a very high quality fish for upwards of $20/pound. I think I'll limit my smoked salmon buying to decent delis (though the Marshall and Acme nova sold at Shop Rite for $9.99/pound are good values).

[hathor]

Wow Ribklind-Bob, you are an excellent marketer and reporter. I might need to come along on one your forays! Its a long story, but we've been spending some time in PHilly and your reports certainly come in handy! Grazie mille!

[rlibkind]

I arrived at the RTM today, Christmas Eve's morning, just two minutes after the 8 a.m. opening. The line at Termini's was already to the end of the counter:

By the time I left at 9:20, the line was around the corner of the counter all the way to the Filbert Street door. By now I figure it's down the block. Otherwise, between 8 and 9:20, while the market was slightly busier than normal for those hours on a Saturday, it was not outrageously so. I suspect that has changed by the time of this posting.

The displays at Iovine's were particularly colorful, and it was conceivable (from a distance) to confuse the citrus and bell pepper exhibitions:

Note the price of the peppers: green and orange still at 99 cents, but red and yellow are back in the stratosphere from a couple of weeks ago. All the citrus was available in various sizes. I picked up one large Indian Rivers priced at $1.49 apiece.

Update on fish: in my last report I said John Yi had the carp. Wrong. The carp (still there today) is at Golden Seafood.

About those smelts I picked up the other day. They were delicious. But I bought way too much just for me (She Who Must Be Obeyed does not eat fish that looks like fish.) So, I consulted Alan Davidson's "North American Seafood" and found a Danish recipe that called for fried herring. Since smelt has many of the characteristics of herring, I tried it. It involves a mild vinegar pickle (1/3 c vinegar, 3 tbs sugar, 2 tbs water) brought to a boil then cooled. Layer the herrings/smelts in a dish, top with thinly sliced onion and pour the cooled pickle over it; a couple of cloves (I used them) are optional. Let them sit overnight, turning once or twice if the vinegar mix is insufficient to cover all the fish. Serve on rye bread which you've slathered with coarse mustard. And, as Davidson advises, be sure to eat the onions! I think this preparation was even better than the smelts served hot from the fat -- the light pickle does a nice job in balancing the fatty fish.

Here's hoping your holiday is a very tasteful one . . . .

[rlibkind]

New item at the Spice Terminal spied Thursday afternoon: dried oregano on the stem. I haven't seem this since I moved out of Hoboken in 1979 (though I suspect there must be some Italian or Greek grocery store in Philadelphia that sells this). Back in Hoboken I bought them loose. The Spice Terminal's version is in a sealed package marketed, IIRC, by Krinos, the Greek foods importer. When I walked by them I smelled them before I saw them!

Limes, which were 10 for a $1 just a week ago, have shot up in price at Iovine's. Today a buck would buy only three. Lemons still five for a buck. The sweet bell peppers also up in price again. Only the greens could be had at the 99-cent price.

Avocados were the big bargain at Iovine's. Two for a dollar. They were soft, and you'd would have had to use them either today or tomorrow at the latest. They were priced to move; it's likely they'll be gone (or tossed) by the weekend and replaced by a more expensive 'cado.

Still a pretty good selection of fish at all three fish mongers, including live eel at John Yi's. Sardines/herring still available. The variety of shrimps bowled over Curlz, who I was guiding around the RTM this afternoon. However, no Pacific salmon seen, though Golden had some excellent looking farmed Scottish salmon.

Fair Food Project sold out of Jamison lamb last weekend, and none to be had this week. Seems they didn't get everything they ordered from Jamison.

[Rebecca263]

Hi! My friend's son is visiting us from Florida this week, and loves the idea of cooking, he wants to be a chef! He's always wanted to make a duck so today we drove down 65 miles to RTM for... a fresh duck! Why a duck? They're GOURMET, of course.
Well, it was my first visit to RTM, what fun!
The Amish booth folks were all so nice, and the kids enjoyed their ice cream cones immensely.
The sandwiches(um, from Rocco's) with sauteed rabe that we ate for shopping energy were great, and the kids had a lot of fun going from booth to booth only buying one item each(they had to make the tiny bits of money I supplied them with last, you know!).
We got a gorgeous ducky at Godshall's. The guy behind the counter was so dear, he even sold us lovely poultry sausages in groups of 3 (one for each diner, you know!)and a bit of beef bacon to try. And, most importantly, he was very patient with my young friend. The duck was just under 6# and cost about $18. And it is gorgeous! We will be roasting 'the Donald' for New Year's Eve!
I only had one bit of poor luck, the woman who runs the cook book shop wouldn't just charge me $10 for some magazines that kiddle wanted so that I could charge them to my card, and my total was a dollar under her minimum. She is NOT in need of business, obviously. My kiddle was stunned after I asked the woman if she couldn't charge me extra for something, just to bring up the total. She told me that she wasn't using isdn's for ringing up, but that she couldn't accomodate me. I was mystified by her lack of friendliness and of service skills, especially after I left her shop. Another vendor informed me that Lady Bookseller sells post cards. Um, offer to add a few to my order next time? She also snubbed a woman in front of me who was looking at a $35 book. Still, Lady Bookseller has lovely skin.
Kiddle was mollified by the nice boys at Kamal's Middle East place, who cheerfully sold her ONE of each item under the glass.
Finally, we bought some lovely seeds, produce and cheeses, from myriad vendors.
I got some amazing goat cheese with ash at Downtown Cheese, I CAN NOT wait to eat it!
And, we got sea scallops for only 12.99 a pound, at John Yi. Lovely things, I'm sure the scallop eaters will adore them.
I almost went evil and bought a cake at Termini's, but resisted, sadly.
Thanks once again RLIBKIND... you are a font of golden information.

[Rich Pawlak]

I think one of the most underrecognized merchants at RTM is Rocco's Italian Hoagies. I had the privalege of working with Carmen and his crew at the food court at The Bellevue when I was the marketing/PR director there, and I can say with complete confidence that I have never met anyone as fanatically devoted to the hoagie ouvre as Carmen. His attention to every component of the sandwich is impressive, from the hand inspection of every roll every day, to his obsession with the quality and cleanliness of the romaine lettuce and his careful handling of his meats and cheeses. Dollar for dollar, I've never had a better "boutique hoagie," and, in a city blessed with some iconic hoagie makers, that it impressive. The Special Italian and Chicken Ala Rocco hoagies, to me, rank among the very best sandwiches in the city, hands down.

I realize that I have been privy to the details of painstaking work and attention to detail that go into the hoagie process at Rocco's, and that when purchasing a sandwich there it may not be readily apparent, but these guys are on top of their game. I miss the hoegies at Rocco's more than almost any food in Philly.

If anyone stops by to test my assertions, please say hello to Carmen for me, as I never seem to get to RTM these days.

[Curlz]

First of all, a big shout-out and THANK YOU to Bob for his gracious offer to give me a guided tour of the RTM yesterday, including door-to-door service! I couldn't have asked for a better guide--he really does know the place and the vendors, as you can see from his posts.

We started out at DiNic's since there were stools open that were calling our names...the roast pork w/cheese and greens is everything you've heard, and definitely a don't-miss item if you're in town. Better (GASP) than a cheesesteak, imho! (Btw, it was smart to eat the sandwich first, b/c then I was able to really look at everything else with my eyes instead of my stomach! ) We then walked around and I got the low-down on who's good, who's not, and whose lease is being renewed and whose isn't. I picked up a couple of pears at Iovine's as well as some freshly roasted and ground mocha java from Old City Coffee Roasters, and enjoyed the smell in my hotel room AND in my car today. We ended our visit with some Bassett's, which is also a wonderful thing. All of this and I still had a visit to StudioKitchen ahead of me...but that's for another thread.

This morning, I loaded up a bag of ice for my cooler, checked out of the hotel and went right back to the Market, where I had breakfast at the Down Home Diner (another Bob rec that was right on the money). I had the eggs, cheese and (YUM) scrapple sandwich on excellent whole grain wheat toast, and then I was ready to power-shop. Apple dumplings (these things weight a TON!) for dessert tonight at my bro's, a fresh-from-the-oven pretzel from Foster's (?), and about a pound of assorted chicken sausages from Martin's. Finally, a cup of really good coffee from Old City, and I was ready to hit the road. All in all, a great framework for my <24-hour visit to Philadelphia, wouldn't you say?

[herbacidal]

We started out at DiNic's since there were stools open that were calling our names...the roast pork w/cheese and greens is everything you've heard, and definitely a don't-miss item if you're in town.  Better (GASP) than a cheesesteak, imho! 

Wait'll you try it with rabe instead of spinach at someplace other than Dinic's.
But that's just my personal preference.

[Rebecca263]

...the roast pork w/cheese and greens is everything you've heard, and definitely a don't-miss item if you're in town.  Better (GASP) than a cheesesteak, imho!  

Wait'll you try it with rabe instead of spinach at someplace other than Dinic's.
But that's just my personal preference.

Oh My Holy Oats, you're so right, rabe took the tuna hoagie at Rocco's (now Carmen's but the same family, so to speak!) from great to heavenly. The kiddle had never been willing to eat rabe before, she devoured her entire sandwich at Carmen's. I'll also second Rich Pawlak's opine of Carmen. Firstly, he is friendly beyond the pale. He is garrulous, and he knows it, he doesn't try to hide his open nature, and he truly means well! He hung around and chatted with me while the kiddles and I had our hoagies. We talked for at least ten minutes about the bread alone. We both prefer the same brand of Italian tinned tuna in olive oil, and he really is very dedicated to making a truly delicious sandwich. I can see how he might be a little much for what my dad would call 'quiet folk', but I really loved him for his open heart and his lack of pretension. He is planning on franchising, too. As for cheesesteaks, well, I don't know why, but Carmen's place just seemed more singular than a cheesesteak would be. Besides, we planned on eating AFTER lunch, too. A cheesesteak would have killed me.

[mrbigjas]

I think one of the most underrecognized merchants at RTM is Rocco's Italian Hoagies.  I had the privalege of working with Carmen and his crew at the food court at The Bellevue when I was the marketing/PR director there, and I can say with complete confidence that I have never met anyone as fanatically devoted to the hoagie ouvre as Carmen.  His attention to every component of the sandwich is impressive, from the hand inspection of every roll every day, to his obsession with the quality and cleanliness of the romaine lettuce and his careful handling of his meats and cheeses.  Dollar for dollar, I've never had a better "boutique hoagie," and, in a city blessed with some iconic hoagie makers, that it impressive.  The Special Italian and Chicken Ala Rocco hoagies, to me, rank among the very best sandwiches in the city, hands down. 

I realize that I have been privy to the details of painstaking work and attention to detail that go into the hoagie process at Rocco's, and that when  purchasing a sandwich there it may not be readily apparent, but these guys are on top of their game. I miss the hoegies at Rocco's more than almost any food in Philly.

If anyone stops by to test my assertions, please say hello to Carmen for me, as I never seem to get to RTM these days.

i didn't specifically say hello to carmen (assuming he was the guy running the register--middle aged, longish graying hair, very nice, obviously loves the world of hoagies) but i did think of your post yesterday when i was at the terminal and suddenly had the urge for an italian hoagie, so i went over to rocco's and got the special.

and you're right, it's a delicious sandwich. if you go, be sure to get the house-roasted sweets and hots on it. the hots especially are worth it, but in general it's much better than the jarred stuff that you usually get on hoagies (and that they also offer if you like that sort of thing).

my only reservation is that the sandwiches there might not be as big as some people might expect when they think they're getting a hoagie. i think i could finish one pretty easily, and that's not really a compliment when it comes to hoagies--people think of them as big abundant sandwiches, and rocco's don't qualify as that.

i don't want anyone to interpret that in any negative way, though. every ingredient is great, from the rolls from liscio's, to the sharp provolone, to the various meats... and really maybe we wouldn't be the least healthy city in the US like we were a few years ago if hoagies were a little more reasonable in size.

damn, i might be about to go on another hoagie binge again.

one question rich: what's the deal with rocco's vs. carmen's or whatever, namewise? just an ownership change, like louie's lee's liquor lounge in the dale watson song, or ruth's chris steak house? or something else?

[philadining]

I met a Rocco there in the mid-late 80s, I always assumed that was THE Rocco... I'm 99% sure his full name was Rocco DiGuglielmo. I don't know whether he's still involved, or if he sold the business. The RTM website calls it Carmen's, run by Carmen DiGuglielmo, and says "new name, same family."

[Rich Pawlak]

Carmen is Rocco's older, wiser brother. Rocco, who had opened several hoagie outposts (The Bellevue, RTM, Ocean City, NJ, some others) was a lousy businessman, and eventually sold the businesses to his older, wiser brother. To my knowledge, only the Bellevue and RTM locations remain. It is fitting that Carmen changed the name, since he's been doing all of the heavy lifting, hard work and quality control for years.

[Rich Pawlak]

I think one of the most underrecognized merchants at RTM is Rocco's Italian Hoagies.  I had the privalege of working with Carmen and his crew at the food court at The Bellevue when I was the marketing/PR director there, and I can say with complete confidence that I have never met anyone as fanatically devoted to the hoagie ouvre as Carmen.  His attention to every component of the sandwich is impressive, from the hand inspection of every roll every day, to his obsession with the quality and cleanliness of the romaine lettuce and his careful handling of his meats and cheeses.  Dollar for dollar, I've never had a better "boutique hoagie," and, in a city blessed with some iconic hoagie makers, that it impressive.  The Special Italian and Chicken Ala Rocco hoagies, to me, rank among the very best sandwiches in the city, hands down. 

I realize that I have been privy to the details of painstaking work and attention to detail that go into the hoagie process at Rocco's, and that when  purchasing a sandwich there it may not be readily apparent, but these guys are on top of their game. I miss the hoegies at Rocco's more than almost any food in Philly.

If anyone stops by to test my assertions, please say hello to Carmen for me, as I never seem to get to RTM these days.

i didn't specifically say hello to carmen (assuming he was the guy running the register--middle aged, longish graying hair, very nice, obviously loves the world of hoagies) but i did think of your post yesterday when i was at the terminal and suddenly had the urge for an italian hoagie, so i went over to rocco's and got the special.

and you're right, it's a delicious sandwich. if you go, be sure to get the house-roasted sweets and hots on it. the hots especially are worth it, but in general it's much better than the jarred stuff that you usually get on hoagies (and that they also offer if you like that sort of thing).

my only reservation is that the sandwiches there might not be as big as some people might expect when they think they're getting a hoagie. i think i could finish one pretty easily, and that's not really a compliment when it comes to hoagies--people think of them as big abundant sandwiches, and rocco's don't qualify as that.

i don't want anyone to interpret that in any negative way, though. every ingredient is great, from the rolls from liscio's, to the sharp provolone, to the various meats... and really maybe we wouldn't be the least healthy city in the US like we were a few years ago if hoagies were a little more reasonable in size.

damn, i might be about to go on another hoagie binge again.

one question rich: what's the deal with rocco's vs. carmen's or whatever, namewise? just an ownership change, like louie's lee's liquor lounge in the dale watson song, or ruth's chris steak house? or something else?

That's why I always call them "boutique hoagies". I've always imagined that if ever the Four Seasons or Ritz Carlton or, more appropriately, the Park Hyatt wanted to serve a hoagie for room service or lunch, they would use a Rocco's/Carmen's hoagie as the template.

[Rebecca263]

Carmen told me that he changed the name for his ego and that he hopes to franchise. He IS a natural and honest guy! BTW, I didn't think the sandwiches were small for the price, but I did want to ask him what he does with the butts of the bread that he removes from the loaves. I would have wanted mine! Yum!
And, BTW, I've PM'd Vadouvan, and I'll wait a day for a response before I will post a reply on the subject of "rude" and "pushy" opines.

[shacke]

It was pretty quiet today at the RTM. Most vendors were open. Since it is so rainy, I opted for a mixed bag of turkey necks, backs and wings for a rainy day one pot dinner....


Evan

[Rich Pawlak]

Carmen told me that he changed the name for his ego and that he hopes to franchise. He IS a natural and honest guy! BTW, I didn't think the sandwiches were small for the price, but I did want to ask him what he does with the butts of the bread that he removes from the loaves. I would have wanted mine! Yum!
And, BTW, I've PM'd Vadouvan, and I'll wait a day for a response before I will post a reply on the subject of "rude" and "pushy" opines.

I know that Carmen used to make bread crumbs for his chicken cutlet coating from the heels, as well as use them as an accompaniment to his "naked hoagies" (low carb craze hoagies sans bread, of which I used to eat many when I was on Atkins).

[Rich Pawlak]

I just called over to The Bellevue location of the former Rocco's and it is now called "Ellen's Italian Hoagies", so it may no longer have ANY affiliation to Rocco or Carmen. And that would be a shame. Curious if the quality is different or the styles of sandwiches are different.

[Mottmott]

I'm curious whether anyone else has noticed this.

I used to buy meat at Ochs, but seldom do so any more. All things being equal, I prefer getting meat that does not have antibiotics or hormones. Now a beautifully marbled steak or standing rib could make me bend on that, particularly if I'm already at RTM. But lately I don't see beautifully marbled meat there, and the last time I bought a rib roast there it was merely acceptable.

I've taken to buying meat mostly at Whole Foods because of the additives issue, and I have to admit that I have pretty good luck finding well marbled beef there, too. This annoys me, as I'd rather support individual vendors than chain stores.

[mrbigjas]

i've noticed the marbling issues as well in the last year-plus, especially in the strip steaks we usually buy, which we've mostly stopped buying because they're nearly fat-free in the main steaky kind of area. and i've wondered about it as well, but thought that i must be imagining things.

but i didn't know that about the antibiotics/hormones. in fact, i thought that i read an article when the fair food people first came in and were advertising their meat as all-natural grass-fed etc. etc., the ochs folks were annoyed because their stuff is too, and they thought fair food's advertising made them seem less eco-friendly than they actually are. am i crazy? does anyone else remember that?

edit: found it, and here's google's cache of it. it wasn't as explicitly stated as i had thought.

Edited by mrbigjas, 05 January 2006 - 07:59 AM.

[Mottmott]

i've noticed the marbling issues as well in the last year-plus, especially in the strip steaks we usually buy, which we've mostly stopped buying because they're nearly fat-free in the main steaky kind of area.  and i've wondered about it as well, but thought that i must be imagining things.

but i didn't know that about the antibiotics/hormones.  in fact, i thought that i read an article when the fair food people first came in and were advertising their meat as all-natural grass-fed etc. etc., the ochs folks were annoyed because their stuff is too, and they thought fair food's advertising made them seem less eco-friendly than they actually are.  am i crazy?  does anyone else remember that?

edit: found it, and here's google's cache of it.  it wasn't as explicitly stated as i had thought.

As I live alone, I resort to steaks and chops often, so I really notice. I believe I asked about the antibiotics/hormones at Ochs some time back and was told it was not a/h free. It was so long ago, though, I may misremember. But that issue aside, the Whole Foods (Callowhill St) steaks are better marbled. Waygu beats it, but I only treat my company to that.

[rlibkind]

I'm curious whether anyone else has noticed this.

I used to buy meat at Ochs, but seldom do so any more. All things being equal, I prefer getting meat that does not have antibiotics or hormones. Now a beautifully marbled steak or standing rib could make me bend on that, particularly if I'm already at RTM. But lately I don't see beautifully marbled meat there, and the last time I bought a rib roast there it was merely acceptable.

I've taken to buying meat mostly at Whole Foods because of the additives issue, and I have to admit that I have pretty good luck finding well marbled beef there, too. This annoys me, as I'd rather support individual vendors than chain stores.

I put the question raised by Mottmott directly to Nick Ochs today.

First, antibiotics and hormones. All the beef they sell comes from a single supplier in Berwyn who slaughters only local steers. No growth hormones are used. Antibiotics are used only for therapy, not on the sub-therapeutic level, i.e., in the feed. (Sub-therapeutic use of antibiotics is where the danger resides.) Hey, if a cattleman has an investment in an animal and it gets a bacterial infection, he wants to protect that investment by giving the animal the proper medicine, and I have no problem with that, just as I'll ingest antibiotics when medically appropriate. But the beef Harry Ochs sells do not get antibiotics in their regular feed.

Now onto tenderness and flavor.

Harry Ochs carries both choice and prime beef. And even within the category of prime, he has two levels of aging. The pre-cut strip steaks you see in the front case are not the best available at Harry's. Most of the prime beef is dry aged for two weeks. However, a smaller quantity is aged for six weeks or more. It is cut to order, not pre-cut for display. Ask for it. You'll pay for all that water loss, but your tongue won't regret it. Harry Ochs does all his own hanging (at his supplier's facility, I believe). The cattle are fed on both grass and corn (the latter to encourage fattiness).

As for the marbling issue, Nick opined that because they trim it very closely, it appears to be leaner than it actually is.

Some personal observations. Marbling is an important component of what makes a good steak or roast, but it is hardly the sole determinant. Some experts contend marbling and fat content are responsible for only one-quarter of a piece of beef's flavor and tenderness. The breed, age and feed of the animal are also important. An older steer will be tastier, but it will be less tender than a young animal. An animal that's strictly grass fed will be considerably leaner. And all other things being equal, there's still natural variety between individual animals: some just taste better than others, even if they're from the same herd, fed the same food, slaughtered the same way. Nor can you entirely rely on the USDA grading system. I've had pieces of Choice that were was tender as Prime and more flavorful, and I've had Prime that should have been graded Choice.

As for Whole Foods, I concur that they offer some excellent beef, and I frequently buy my meat there. Unlike their exorbitant prices on fish, WF is competitive on beef. And their lamb can be exceptional.

But I also buy from Harry Ochs and Martins. What I particularly like about Harry Ochs is the service: if you want a beef navel, he'll get it for you. If you want 20 pounds of beef cheek (as someone asked for recenlty -- was it you, Shacke?), he'll get that, too. You want your meat cut a certain way? No problem!

So, Mottmott, I'd recommend giving it another try, but this time asking for the super-aged beef. And I'd be happy to join you in a taste test!

[rlibkind]

Winter strawberries? Yes. Every year Iovine brings in Florida berries at a bargain price. And what's surprising is that they have good flavor. Vinnie promises that the two pints I bought today will not only have flavor, but be sweet. They sure smell good. I bought them for $1.49 apiece, but if his brother Jimmy can cut the right deal with their supplier, you might find these berries for 99-cents this weekend. But even at $1.49 they appear worth it.

Also at Iovines, those 50-cent avocados are gone, as expected. Still, the Haas avocados in today looked good at a buck apiece. No more bargains in any bell pepper, not even green which, iirc, were either $1.49 or $1.99 today.

New this year are Galia melons from Brazil. This variety was first popularized by Israeli growers and later brought to the New World. $1.49 per melon. Good looking navel oranges at 3/$1; I picked up half a dozen. Nice variety of grapefruit, some at excellent prices. Vinnie Iovine said they've been real happy with the quality of the California Clementines this year; they were out of them today but should have them in stock for the weekend. It's definitely citrus season.

Frozen langoustines were available at Golden Seafood (near Arch). They are a farmed freshwater variety from India, which accounts for the relative bargain price of $9.99/pound. Golden still had branzino. John Yi's still had sardines at either $2.99 or $3.99, depending on the size; spearling are also still in stock. Pacific King salmon back at Yi's: $11.99/pound.

Kaufman's Produce closed this week. Will reopen next week.

I was going to try one of those hoagies at Carmen's today, but they were closed because of "refrigerator trouble" according to the sign.

Fair Food Project kept some fresh Country Time pork on hand today rather than immediately putting it in the freezer. (Just in time for Rick Nichols' column in today's Inquirer.)

Expect the vendors who lost their leases to vacate the premises by Jan. 31. Braverman's may shut down sooner. That spot will be occupied by the new pastry shop. The Sandwich Stand will become Spataro's new home, and the latter's prime venue along Center Court will become the new Jewish deli, with counters on both center court and the opposite aisle. For posterity's sake, here are photos take today of Braverman's, the Sandwich Stand and Tokyo Sushi Bar:

[Tim Dolan]

rlibkind, I would like to personally thank you for your research. I'm heading up the Poconos tonight and wanted a nice dinner, so I sent my girlfriend, who barely knows anything about food, to get me a porterhouse from Och's this afternoon. She called me from there right after she ordered it and explained that the guy behind the counter had to go in the back and cut it right then and there. He asked her how big, she said "uh, I dunno, like this" and gave him the good old 2 inch-between-your-finger-and-thumb measurement. It cost $38, I just took a peek at it and it's literally the largest piece of meat I think I've ever seen. I'm going to assume that is of the 6 week aging pedigree. I'm so excited to get up there and grill this bad boy I can barely type. I'll be sure to post on how it was when I get back!

[rlibkind]

Dug into those $1.49/pint Florida strawberries tonight. The flavor was there. Not particularly sweet, but you can always add sugar. And some of the stem ends were a bit white. But still, for winter berries, very good at a very good price. If Vinnie and Jimmie can knock the price down to 99 cents this weekend they'll be an even bigger bargain.

Tim, do let us know your opinion of that porterhouse. I will tell you that the sub-primal hunk of porterhouse I spied in Ochs side case this afternoon was stamped Choice, not Prime. Which should not be taken to mean yours won't be delicious. If you got a 3-pound plus steak for $38, odds are it was choice. If the steak was closer to 2 pounds, then it was most likely the extra-aged prime.

[mrbigjas]

I put the question raised by Mottmott directly to Nick Ochs today.

wow, thanks bob.

Harry Ochs carries both choice and prime beef. And even within the category of prime, he has two levels of aging. The pre-cut strip  steaks you see in the front case are not the best available at Harry's. Most of the prime beef is dry aged for two weeks.

are the ones in the front case the choice ones? or just the less-aged prime? and are the more-aged ones the ones in the case on the side? that's good stuff.

But I also buy from Harry Ochs and Martins. What I particularly like about Harry Ochs is the service: if you want a beef navel, he'll get it for you. If you want 20 pounds of beef cheek (as someone asked for recenlty -- was it you, Shacke?), he'll get that, too. You want your meat cut a certain way? No problem!

got that right--i do love that place. that reminds me that i was going to order a hanger steak from them this week...

Edited by mrbigjas, 05 January 2006 - 08:56 PM.

[rlibkind]

are the ones in the front case the choice ones?  or just the less-aged prime?  and are the more-aged ones the ones in the case on the side?  that's good stuff.

I don't presume to know how Harry and Nick handle their stock, i.e., what grade/aging variety gets placed where. Your best bet is, simply, to ask.