70 replies to this topic

[oscubic]

I ok'ed this with Bux first, so please don't flame me. I'm just looking for a room in Paris to sleep in, I'll pay a few hundred euro a month through the end of the year, so if anyone is willing to house me or knows of any vacancies, please let me know. I'm staging at Lucas Carton near the metro Madeleine, so ideally looking for something vaguely near the 8th arrondisement or near metro lines 8, 12 or 14, but anything in Paris would be ok. Thanks for taking the time to read this and sorry to spam the board.

[BigboyDan]

You're welcome:

http://www.psrparis.com/1.htm

[Bux]

I just remembered that I think my daughter found her first apartment in Paris via a bulletin board at the American Church on the quai d'Orsay. Or maybe it was her second apartment, or maybe neither, but she mentioned the bulletin board as a good place to look when was looking. If I'm not mistaken, and you have no reason to believe my memory on this is anything but very fuzzy, this was a room in the apartment of a young woman from Taiwan, so it came complete with a small circle of international friends. Then again, my daughter was not staging at the time and thus had time for a social life.

[Felice]

Also, check FUSAC, a free classified paper for Anglo-phones. You can find it in any english speaking establishment or on-line. Fusac They have many housing offers. The paper copy is much more extensive than the on-line listings.

If you are under 28 (I know this because I was too old) you can go to the Institut Catholique on rue d'ASSAS in the 6th. They have a social services program which finds rooms for students and I had a friend who found thier apartment that way. He wasn't studying there either.

[oscubic]

Thanks for the support everyone, I'll have a few hours here and there the next few days so I'll be sure to check these things out. I had been checking online fusac but had no idea the paper version was more extensive.

[goyatofu]

I need help. My cooking school has decided NOT to help me find a stage in Paris. This is because it is against their "policy" for students to be studying (2 days per week only) and doing a stage concurrently. I am being punished because I don't want to sit on my ass for 5 days out of the week. I've paid for all my tuition til the end of August and they won't refund me the last level (plus I lose the discount I received) if I pull out now.

The school admin kept threatening me that I can't do it "on my own" because there's "paperwork" involved. I know that is NOT true and they're just after the extra administration fee that they charge me for finding me a stage.

I am more than willing to go knocking on doors and begging chefs for stages in person. If there's any egulleteers out there who have staged in Paris and is willing to share some advice, please. Is there really paperwork that only "institutions" can arrange? I really appreciate any help I can get.

Thanks.

[NeroW]

Their "policy" seems a little ridiculous to me. Try placing an ad on this website: www.expatriates.com.

[Bux]

Their "policy" seems a little ridiculous to me.

As most laws regarding foreign workers in both the US and France most often seem ridiculous, at least to those seeking work, it might just be the case. Nevertheless, there are always loopholes for the persistent, or so it often seems.

[BigboyDan]

You can always get a job (anywhere on Earth really) if you'll work for free - almost no "paper work" involved. Most 2 & 3 stars don't pay, nor should they, considering what you learn. Just make sure that your visa staus is in order, and start banging on kitchen doors.

Do NOT screw-up your last few months at school.

[Louisa Chu]

goyatofu - Cordon Bleu will help you get a stage - after you've earned your Patisserie Diploma. That's the policy - it's very clear in the school contract you read and signed before you paid your tuition - ditto on the refund policy. The stage policy is not their policy - it's the official French government stage policy - an official stage is done after studies are completed. But the fact that you're asking here whether or not that paperwork even exists - after you've made all these accusations - is really troubling.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but if you want to stage in Paris you'll need to learn harsh - and hierarchy - and fast.

A stage is a privilege - it's not a right.

[goyatofu]

Loufood,

I have earned my cuisine diplome. I'm asking the school for a cuisine stage, not pastry. I had specifically asked them before I came whether they can arrange a cuisine stage for me. They said yes. I paid them my arm, my leg and my first-born. Now they say it's against policy. I am sure you had a positive experience with them, I'm not doubting that, you've had 9 months to build up a relationship with them. I have not had that privilege.

What I am upset about is that they cannot give me a logical reason why I can't do a stage and study concurrently. If they said "the restaurants refuse to have a stage 5 days per week, they want a stage there 6 days per week" that's fine. I'll accept it. But I had asked that specific question, and the reply was "no, the stages are only there for 5 days per week." All they can muster is "against policy".

The stage policy is not their policy - it's the official French government stage policy - an official stage is done after studies are completed.

yes, I am aware of that. So I'm not in that category. I know other people not fitting this category who have done stages.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but if you want to stage in Paris you'll need to learn harsh - and hierarchy - and fast.

A stage is a privilege - it's not a right.

Yes, I am learning very quickly. I know hierarchy--I worked for the military--in my books though, admin people are not in the hierarchy; at least not the ones in school where their free lunches served in fine china are being paid for by my tuition.

Louisa, you are a wonderful girl, and I can understand you find it hard to believe how a school that treated you nicely is screwing me over. I am not expecting a stage to fall onto my lap; I know I have to work at it. I guess I was just naiive in expecting something other than, "It's against policy, have a nice life."

[tate]

re. finding a stage in Paris
------------------------------

As bizarre as it may seem, there is indeed paperwork that your school needs to fill out for you to complete a stage in France. You didn't mention in your post where your school is located...is it in France? For liability reasons (yes! they exist in France, too!) the restaurant needs to know that you're properly insured, that you are in France legally, and that you have the legal right to complete a stage.

I got my cuisine diploma from the ESCF-Ferrandi in Paris and was a stagiare at the Hotel Bristol. I know that they had a long list of people wanting to do stages there, and it was through the reputation of my school that I got in. They don't want just anybody off the street. I now work as a commis at the Jules Verne and the situation is the same here, as well.

For loufood who says that stagiares shouldn't be paid for their work, shame on you! Stagiares work long hours, too, and are absolutely essential for "gastros" to function. It is impossible to expect a student to work full-time, for free, after having paid enormous tuition fees, and house/clothe/feed themselves unless they come from comfortable backgrounds. And in France, cuisine is most certainly not a profession for the elite.

This reply may have come to late to be of any help to you, but I wish you the best of luck!

[Louisa Chu]

Have I EVER said that stagiaires should NOT be paid?? You do NOT need to tell me about the sacrifices.

[tate]

Have I EVER said that stagiaires should NOT be paid?? You do NOT need to tell me about the sacrifices.

ARGH! i'm an idiot!
mea culpa, mea culpa!!!

loufood -- terribly sorry, please forgive my false accusation. my comment was meant for bigboydan, not you! again, please excuse my temporary lack of keyboard skills. i shall now crawl in a hole and die. or better yet, crawl back into my hot kitchen and receive due punishment!!

[Louisa Chu]

tate - no problem! I thought I'd actually said that sometime - in some stress and exhaustion induced haze.

[foodie52]

Go to Chambery: to L'Essentiel. One star. The chef has an apartment with three bedrooms for his stagieres.

My son did a one month stage there. Chef Bouvier has anywhere from 5 to 9 stagieres at a time working for him...for room and board. Check out the website. You'll work yourself silly, but you'll survive.

I ate there: it's amazing.

[Bux]

Go to Chambery: to L'Essentiel.

Here's the URL. http://www.l-essentiel.com/

[goyatofu]

Made a promise to stop living at egullet if this happened for me...so this will be my last post.

I got a stage at Guy Savoy. No help from school. Just walked in myself.

Thanks for all those who tried to help.

[Bux]

Made a promise to stop living at egullet if this happened for me...so this will be my last post.

Sorry to hear that. We would have looked forward to hearing about life at Guy Savoy. I hope you'll reconsider if you get a chance to spend some time online. Congratulations anyway and good luck.

[charlieredd]

I am starting the process of contacting chefs in France about a stage this summer. I want to work in a two or three star with a chef IN the kitchen who is exciting and a participant in the cuisine. I could use any information that people have as far as how to organize it, how long the stage usually lasts, accomodation, money provided, and who provides the best ones. I am a cook with 12 years under my belt and am excited to finally be able to work in Europe. Any info will be a help. Thanks in advance.

[chefzadi]

Chances are you won't be paid to stage. You'll be lucky if you get to do it for free. There's a famous American chef who says he spent a year or so in France working at Michelin starred restaurants. My considerable knowledge of the French restaurant industry tells me that he most likely paid for the privilege.

As for a well known Chef IN the kitchen these days (I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at the idea, please don't take it the wrong way). Even if the chef is in the kitchen, don't try to stay too close to him, he won't like it. Get on the good side of the sous chef. Watch and learn from everyone. At the level of restaurant you want to work at, you can learn from the entire line.

As for accomodations that depends on where in France you will be working. There is an organization that helps students find inexpensive dwellings, I will find their website and post it for you if you are interested. I know you're not a student but I think they might be able to help.

I would also recommend working in Lyon at a traditional cuisine du terroir Bouchon.

Good luck to you. You will learn alot. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[chefzadi]

A stage lasts about 3 months.

[Bux]

There are also problems in getting the proper papers to do it legally and may have some problems if you're coming from outside the EU. Nevertheless, enough cooks seem to manage to do it.

[oldschooltie]

I am starting the process of contacting chefs in France about a stage this summer. I want to work in a two or three star with a chef IN the kitchen who is exciting and a participant in the cuisine. I could use any information that people have as far as how to organize it, how long the stage usually lasts, accomodation, money provided, and who provides the best ones. I am a cook with 12 years under my belt and am excited to finally be able to work in Europe. Any info will be a help. Thanks in advance.

long shot, but try regis marcon in st bonnet le froid. just got his third star, so you may find that there's a queue.

both he and his second have won the bocuse and there are three bonuses:

1. it's one of the most beautiful parts of france that we have ever visited
2. he speaks very good english (worked here way back)
3. he's a very nice man

[chefzadi]

I highly recommend staging in Lyon. You can learn cuisine du terroir and cuisine gastronomique at the same time. The farmer's markets in the region are terrific with some of the best produce in all of France.

[charlieredd]

I'm planning on just using a tourist visa and taking bimonthly trips to neighboring countries. I tried to set this up 5 years ago with far less cash and a need for job security upon arrival. The work permit was the hardest step and the biggest hurdle. I'm hoping to just dive in and deal with it when I have to.
I want to come in the summer either June or july. which would be better? What should I have lined up before I go? Also, the cuisine de terroir is my tour de force as a disciple of Collichio, Waters, Keller, and the New England king of terroir Sam Haywood. I want the skill refinement, most of all, from this experience, though. Can the two be found under the same roof? Enlighten me further. Thanks for the posts.

[touaregsand]

Assuming you have a US passport you can stay for 3 months with a tourist visa, unless the Laws have changed like right now. So don't worry about the bi-monthly trips unless it's for leisure. PM me and I'll tell you what my impression is of the three month limit.

You can fine cuisine du terroir and cuisine gastronomique under one roof, especially in the regions in France that are known for the terroir based cooking. Lyon is a shining example of this. But really at this level of restaurant, the ingredients will be top notch wherever you are.

As for refining your techniques, you can do this just as well in a one star place as you can in a three star place. Or even at a place that's very close to having a star. So I wouldn't fixate on the number of stars so much. Although the reality is when you get back home the number of stars will look pretty good on your resume. What you learn is still more important than that.

Things to prepare...

A place to stage first. I don't know how old you are, but age can be an obstacle, not an impossible one, but I'm trying to be realistic with you. I would suggest when trying to set up a stage, humility and eagerness to learn should be thouroughly expressed. The big names that you worked for in America won't matter so much over there, but you can use it in a different way. Tell them you really want to refine your skills in a way that you don't think is possible in the States (a little cultural ego stroking doesn't hurt). Don't give them the impression that you will try to attach yourself to the Chef, it can be a turn off. Remember at this level the entire line is pretty damn good at what they do. It's not like the chef is doing all the "hands off" work, highly unlikely. So even the cold section guy is performing up to snuff, don't forget to watch him too and on up the line. Learn from the entire kitchen system.


A place to stay...

[Bux]

As noted, you have 3 months with a US passport without needing a visa, but you should also note for referrence that you don't leave the Schengen visa area by going to Spain, Italy, Germany, etc. In terms of visas and passports, there are no borders in the EU these days. They disappeared a few years ago. It's not quite all one big country, but it's one currency and one visa area.

[charlieredd]

Three months should be fine. If longer without a change I'll figure that out with them and worry about it then. I'm 29 and figure I might be above some of the pack but I am still in the absorbing line cook stage, even after 8 years. I find in kitchens staffed with high caliber cooks that everyone has something to teach. I think I know what to expect from hundreds accounts I've read and heard but the more the merrier. Who are some of the men and women your watching right now? I'm not concerned with 3 stars as much as finding a good match. Place to stay? What's up with that? Is it usually provided?

[charlieredd]

Chances are you won't be paid to stage. You'll be lucky if you get to do it for free. There's a famous American chef who says he spent a year or so in France working at Michelin starred restaurants. My considerable knowledge of the French restaurant industry tells me that he most likely paid for the privilege.

As for a well known Chef IN the kitchen these days    (I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing at the idea, please don't take it the wrong way). Even if the chef is in the kitchen, don't try to stay too close to him, he won't like it. Get on the good side of the sous chef. Watch and learn from everyone. At the level of restaurant you want to work at, you can learn from the entire line. 

As for accomodations that depends on where in France you will be working. There is an organization that helps students find inexpensive dwellings, I will find their website and post it for you if you are interested. I know you're not a student but I think they might be able to help.

I would also recommend working in Lyon at a traditional cuisine du terroir Bouchon.

Good luck to you. You will learn alot. Let me know if you have any other questions.