Jump to content


Welcome to the eGullet Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the Society.

Photo

Q&A: Braising


  • Please log in to reply
114 replies to this topic

#61 fifi

fifi
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 7,727 posts

Posted 26 February 2005 - 11:42 AM

I decided to try some chicken, investigating some of the original lab premises.

The pots: The first question I want to address is the pots. Do the pots have any real effect on chicken? I will be using the little Le Creuset, a Corning Ware dish of comparable size, and a cheap foil pan with a foil cover. (I am skeptical about the foil thing, but, oh well.)

How many days: The second question is, does the “next day rule,” or even the “third day rule” hold for chicken, or at least this chicken. I will be using Paula Wolfert’s technique of straining and storing separately and reheating slowly from the cold state.

The chicken: This will be a new experience for me. My local HEB grocery had some lovely thighs that are a new brand, Smart Chicken. It is processed with cold air instead of water and states that there is no water added. It is also all vegetable and grain fed, no meat by-products and no antibiotics. (I am so relieved. The mental picture of little cannibal chickens with bones through their beaks has always been disturbing to me.) They seem to be more dense and firm than your usual grocery store chicken and the skin is beautiful. I normally get rid of the skin when braising chicken, but this was really pretty and I will go with snowangel’s suggestion to leave it on, brown it really well, and remove it later.

The recipe: I started with the recipe from Molly Stevens, “Quick Lemony Chicken with Prunes & Olives.” Of course, I am going to tamper with it. I chose it because it is spookily close to a recipe that my dad developed years ago for a stew he called picadillo. I made some substitutions and additions to Molly’s recipe to approximate my dad’s carefully crafted recipe. I pretty much stuck with Molly’s proportions since my weight for chicken thighs was about the same and I went with my dad’s seasoning since his weight was about the same as well. We shall see.

2 tablespoons olive oil
2 tablespoons chicken fat (could use butter)
8 Chicken thighs, about 3 ½ pounds
Kosher salt
½ cup all purpose flour
1 ½ teaspoons paprika, I used Pimenton de la Vera
1 teaspoon ground cumin
1 teaspoon ground black pepper
½ medium onion, diced
3 garlic cloves, sliced
1 ½ cups white wine
¼ cup white wine vinegar
½ cup green olives thickly sliced (I used a spiced version)
1 tablespoon capers in vinegar, rinsed
Rind from ½ preserved lemon, rinsed and diced

In a large skillet, start to heat the olive oil and chicken fat.

Lightly salt the chicken thighs. Keep in mind that olives and such will be adding salt.

In a large zip type plastic bag (I use a 2 gallon), mix the flour, paprika, cumin and black pepper. Put the chicken thighs in and toss to coat. Shake off excess flour and put into the pan to brown, skin side down. Brown well. Turn and brown the other side. Remove to a plate.

Sauté the onion in the pan and begin to deglaze with the onion. When the onion is translucent, add the garlic and cook a few more minutes. Add the wine and vinegar and stir to get all of the brown bits into the liquid. Add the olives, capers and finely diced preserved lemon.

In the braising pot, distribute the liquid mixture over the chicken pieces. Liquid should come about half way up the chicken. Braise at 250 degrees F.

(Obviously, for this test, I used a large frying pan to brown the chicken and then distributed the pieces into my test pots. You could perhaps use a large Dutch oven and do this as a one pot deal.)

Here we go with the chicken in the pots.

Posted Image

All pots go into the same oven.

Posted Image

After one hour, the chicken in the Le Creuset seems to be noticeably tenderer than in the Corning Ware. The tin pan is more like the Corning Ware. We need more time.

After 1 ½ hours total oven time, I am ready to store for day 2.

Posted Image

After snitching scraps of chicken meat, I would proclaim the Le Creuset ready to eat. (Oh . . . Good . . . Lord! This is GOOD!) The Le Creuset thighs had a hard time holding together while being lifted into the storage container with the tongs. The Corning Ware and tin pan thighs held together fine during the lifting. They were certainly edible but not as melting as the Le Creuset. The flavor of the liquid was the same from all three pots. The liquid from the Le Creuset was maybe a little thicker but that could be due to more surface area on those particular thighs (the flour coating) so I am discounting it. I didn’t deem any of that significant so I combined the liquid from the three pots into one storage container. I will probably have to add some liquid for day two. I did. I thinned with about a half cup of water before chilling.

Day 2: Now, what to do with the skin? Did I mention that I HATE braised chicken skin? I removed it at this point. After the reheating, the Le Creuset is still amazingly succulent. No improvement really. How can you improve on perfection? The Corning Ware improved a bit but such a little bit that I am convinced that a little longer cooking time on day 1 would have done the same thing. The tin pot is still the same. No succulence there. I may run the skin under the broiler and crisp it up to eat as cracklin’s. Hey! Maybe I could use that as a garnish. Stay tuned.

Day 3: No change. I give up. Time to eat.

Posted Image

Served with plumped golden raisins (plumped with white wine), chicken skin cracklin’s and toasted almond slivers. I added the almond slivers because that is what dad did with the picadillo. Also, I toasted them in the little bit of chicken fat that came off of the chicken skin. As for the raisins, I substituted those for the prunes in Molly’s original recipe because I don’t like prunes. And I didn’t even add the raisins in during the cooking. Dad’s original picadillo had the golden raisins added in during the cooking. Certain family members (like me) really didn’t like the sweet note so he started plumping them separately and serving them with the almonds as a garnish. I would add some to my bowl and that was ok for a few bites but I didn’t like them for the whole meal. That is why I did what I did with them here.

This side by side comparison has convinced me of the value of heavy cast iron. My only regret is that I didn’t have a real clay pot to play with. Bottom line, you can get a perfectly acceptable dish with something as cheap as a disposable tin pan. You can also use the ubiquitous Corning Ware and get a perfectly acceptable dish. But the Heavy Metal rules! The Le Creuset produced a succulent, fabulous dish on Day 1 with 1 ½ hours in the oven. And there was a substantial difference. It was not subtle. I know that many of you think that I am prejudiced about cast iron in general and Le Creuset in particular. But I can assure you that, throughout this exercise, the objective scientist in me ruled. I am actually surprised at the difference and somewhat baffled as to why that should be.

The reheating regime did not substantially improve the texture of the meat from the Corning Ware or the tin pot. The texture of the Le Creuset thighs didn’t change either. It stayed excellent. This is not to say that this doesn’t work with other things, like beef. I have done that and it worked. I have also had reheating improve a pork recipe. I am just not seeing any difference with chicken thighs. From now on, I will braise chicken thighs in my Le Creuset, eat it on day 1 and be done with it. If they seem to need improvement, I will do the reheating anyway with hope in my heart.

And . . . I will try this recipe in a clay pot when I get the pot of my desires and will be prepared to be blown away.

I have to say that I have really enjoyed playing with this recipe as a tribute to my dad.
Linda LaRose aka "fifi"

"Having spent most of my life searching for truth in the excitement of science, I am now in search of the perfectly seared foie gras without any sweet glop." Linda LaRose

#62 k43

k43
  • participating member
  • 292 posts

Posted 28 February 2005 - 01:49 PM

Which Enameled Cast Iron Pot?

OK, I'm convinced. An enameled cast iron braising pot will join my collection. While no one mentioned size, I'm assuming 5 quarts. Please let me know if you used the 4 or 7 quart size.

Le Creuset is criticized for its high price and phenolic handles. However, the other brands seem to be in the same ballpark. MSN and Amazon give the following prices:

Le Creuset (5-1/2) $185
Staub $159
Lafont $154
Lodge (enameled) $140
Calphalon Pro NS II $133

Any opinions on the Lafont or Lodge?

With the prices this close, the difference doesn't matter to me. Will the extra 1/2 quart capacity of the Le Creuset make any difference?

On the other hand, the glass top on the Calphalon, and the ability to braise on the stovetop, is tempting.

KRS

#63 slkinsey

slkinsey
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 11,044 posts

Posted 28 February 2005 - 01:56 PM

All these pots will work just fine on the stove. Personally, I think Staub is the best. Heavier construction. I think the matte black enamel is better for browning. And I think the "basting spikes" are cool. But they'll all do well, I think. It's a matter of preference.
Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

#64 fifi

fifi
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 7,727 posts

Posted 28 February 2005 - 02:31 PM

As to the size of the pot, the LC in my pictures is actually a 2 1/2 quart but I am cooking for one and am working on cutting down recipes. (I love the little bugger.) But, the one that my friends and I find the most versatile is the 6 3/4 quart oval. It holds a whole chicken, pork roast, beef chuck, etc. quite nicely and works for beans and stews and such for a group as well. Folks also like the 5 quart oval but I found it a little tight for some things and gave it to a friend who was drooling over it. (I owed her a favor.)
Linda LaRose aka "fifi"

"Having spent most of my life searching for truth in the excitement of science, I am now in search of the perfectly seared foie gras without any sweet glop." Linda LaRose

#65 andiesenji

andiesenji
  • society donor
  • 8,838 posts

Posted 28 February 2005 - 03:07 PM

For anyone who is interested. There is a 7-quart Lodge Logic Dutch oven going for a very reasonable price on ebay with 4 hours to go.

ebay Lodge Logic pan

These have been rated very good by several reviewers and the price is right!

I just want to add that I have purchased several things from this vendor and have never had a problem.
They have a lot of kitchen gadgets (which I collect) and appliances and I have gotten them at very, very good prices. PM me if you want any further info.

Edited by andiesenji, 28 February 2005 - 03:15 PM.

"There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!" Terry Pratchett
My blog:Books,Cooks,Gadgets&Gardening

#66 Blondelle

Blondelle
  • participating member
  • 130 posts

Posted 28 February 2005 - 07:01 PM

There are also less expensive options. Staub makes a 5 qt. pot called Staub Basic that is sold on QVC. It has had great reviews. It's less than $50. You can see it at:

Staub Oven

Also do a search for Innova Color Cast on Amazon. A lot of the people using it have both that and the Le Creuset and say it compares favorably.

Which Enameled Cast Iron Pot?

OK, I'm convinced.  An enameled cast iron braising pot will join my collection.  While no one mentioned size, I'm assuming 5 quarts.  Please let me know if you used the 4 or 7 quart size.

Le Creuset is criticized for its high price and phenolic handles.  However, the other brands seem to be in the same ballpark.  MSN and Amazon give the following prices:

Le Creuset (5-1/2)  $185
Staub                      $159
Lafont                    $154
Lodge (enameled)    $140
Calphalon Pro NS II  $133

Any opinions on the Lafont or Lodge?

With the prices this close, the difference doesn't matter to me.  Will the extra 1/2 quart capacity of the Le Creuset make any difference?

On the other hand, the glass top on the Calphalon, and the ability to braise on the stovetop, is tempting.

KRS

View Post

Staub Pot

#67 Blondelle

Blondelle
  • participating member
  • 130 posts

Posted 04 March 2005 - 08:54 AM

I've really enjoyed reading about the braising experiments, and also the photos showing the progress along the way, as well as the finished products. I looked forward to daily reading all the new posts. There was so much info though to absorb. Will there be another post summarizing the findings from all these experiments, as to the best vessels, cooking methods, best temps, best amounts of liquid, best braising liquids etc.? I think that would be very informative and helpful to many people, as there were so many threads to follow. Thanks much :-).

Please post questions and comments about the braising seminar here. All members are welcome to post here, whether or not they have completed the labs.

If you have results related to the labs, please use the individual lab discussion threads for those.

Thanks.

View Post



#68 k43

k43
  • participating member
  • 292 posts

Posted 07 March 2005 - 11:53 AM

I've really enjoyed reading about the braising experiments, and also the photos showing the progress along the way, as well as the finished products. I looked forward to daily reading all the new posts. There was so much info though to absorb. Will there be another post summarizing the findings from all these experiments, as to the best vessels, cooking methods, best temps, best amounts of liquid, best braising liquids etc.? I think that would be very informative and helpful to many people, as there were so many threads to follow. Thanks much :-).



Here is the summary I made as the week went along:

POTS

– An enameled cast iron (ECI) Dutch oven is best. However, avoid LeCreuset, which is overpriced and has phenolic handles that deteriorate in heat (or get old, metal-handle ones on eBay). Staub is just as good (maybe even a bit heavier) and has metal handles. A matte black surface seems to work best.

ECI cooks faster than other materials. It's not easy to clean, so brown the meat in a sauté pan and deglaze the pan thoroughly into the cooking vessel.

– Copper works very well, but ECI holds, transfers and evens out the heat better.

– Calphalon Professional Nonstick II Anodized Aluminum is almost as good as ECI, has a glass lid and metal handles, produces a good fond and is easy to clean. The best choice overall, and works well on a stovetop braise.

– unglazed clay works well, and the result seems to improve more on subsequent days.

– Corningware (ceramic without metal) gives good results but is slow.

– heavy metal meatloaf pans, very well sealed with foil, are OK for small batches but must be airtight – not as good as ECI, so make a full recipe and keep it for later days, when it’s better anyway.

– Stainless steel clad aluminum is next, Pyrex is poor, and a foil tray is dreadful (and very slow).

- Do NOT use unclad aluminum, which is very reactive, even without acidic ingredients such as tomatoes.

SEALING

Sealing the lid keeps the liquid from evaporating and enhances the cooking. The ancient method is to apply a flour/water dough between lid and vessel. Lifting the lid breaks the seal, so you have to know your oven perfectly. The modern method is to put a double layer of aluminum foil between lid and vessel. Lifting is easy, and the seal is almost as perfect. Parchment paper may also work.

MEAT

Tough, fatty cuts are essential, since the connective tissue breaks down and enriches the sauce. Bones are helpful. Short ribs or flanken (boneless short ribs) are good, and shin and oxtail are even better, with more gelatin. Shoulder and breast of lamb are good.

Starting with frozen meat is just as good as thawing.

SALTING

From André Guillot, a famous French chef: lightly salt the meat the minute you bring it home. You will hardly need to salt later, and you’ll use half as much salt as you would normally. Lightly salted meat will tenderize and mature in flavor when stored overnight in the refrigerator.

After salting, coat the meat lightly with grape-seed oil, which will keep it from drying out; Some blood will run out, but this is insignificant.

BROWNING

A non-non-stick pan on the stovetop is best, since non-stick prevents formation of fond. Cast iron is perfect. Under the broiler is hard to control and can dry the meat out. Unbrowned produces good results, but a different, soft texture on the bottom. The part above the liquid line is identical, browned or not.
For large cuts (e.g., brisket), skip the browning and uncover for the last 1/2 hour.

LIQUID

Wine alone is too strong, especially when reduced. Worth using perhaps 1:3 with stock? The solution is to deglaze the browning pan with wine.

Water is weak and blah.

Stock is by far the best, made even better by adding demi-glace.

Covering the meat leaches out the browning and creates a boiled color and taste.
Standard advice is halfway up the side of the meat, but just 1/2" is even better and gives more tender results.

Beer might be OK.

Mirepoix (carrot/onion/celery) dilutes the flavor and makes the sauce taste like stock. If you must, toss some in during the sauce reduction process. If you use stock as the braising liquid, they’re already in it.

The alternate Tom Colicchio (Grammercy Tavern) stovetop method: when you have LOTS of stock, skip browning, pour stock almost to the top and cook uncovered on the stovetop, turning every ½ hour to keep drying one side while moistening the other.

STOVETOP VS. OVEN

A heavy pot with a tight seal gives excellent results on the stovetop. With the Calphalon glass top, it’s much easier to monitor and handle, too. However, steady heat, coming from all sides in the oven, as in ECI, is perhaps a little bit better

COOKING TEMPERATURE

Low heat (200) results in a little less shrinkage, but no difference in flavor. It’s not worth the much longer cooking time (5 hours still not enough for heavy pork ribs).

Preheat the oven to 325. After 1/2 hour, if the liquid is more than barely trembling, turn it down to 300 or 275. Thus reduces the sauce better and increases caramelization. However, 300 is necessary to melt the collagen and get a proper braise.

CLARIFYING THE SAUCE

From Paula Wolfert. Strain the sauce, pressing down on all the solids with the back of a spoon; cool the entire sauce down; remove all the fat that rises; put the remaining liquid (scum and clear) in a small wide saucepan; and set over heat to bring to a boil. Now, shove the saucepan half off the heat and cook at a slow boil, skimming off all the scum-like solids that rise to the top on the cool side of the liquid for about 10 minutes, or until reduced enough to coat a spoon lightly.

PROCEDURE

1. Brown the meat well. with a small amount of oil, 1 to 1-1/2 min. on each side. A plain cast iron pan works better for this than E/CI or non-stick.

2. Don’t pack the vessel too tight – 1" between pieces and between the meat and the side.

3. Use only a little liquid. The standard is halfway up the side of the meat, but even better is ½" deep.

4. Cook very slowly in the oven.

5. Don't cook the meat to mush. A fork should go in easily and release easily but grip the meat slightly, and the fork holes shouldn’t stay open. For short ribs, 2 hours is about right.

6. Refrigerate, skim the fat and eat the next day.

REHEATING

Always better the next day, and there are significant improvements on the following day.

Reheat uncovered at 275 in a shallow, ovenproof serving dish, to deepen the flavor. Turn once while reheating.

#69 Blondelle

Blondelle
  • participating member
  • 130 posts

Posted 08 March 2005 - 08:13 PM

Thanks so much for the summary. I'm going to save it to refer to for my first braise. I'm really surprised though at the poor showing for All-Clad, as Cooks Illustrated rated the A-C 8 qt. stockpot a better braising vessel than Le Creuset. There is one tiny discrepancy in your post. In one part you mentioned browning in nonstick to avoid the formation of a fond, while at the end, in the procedure section you mention a cast iron pan is better than nonstick. Thanks much for posting your notes, as it was very helpful to me, and I'm sure to others too.


I've really enjoyed reading about the braising experiments, and also the photos showing the progress along the way, as well as the finished products. I looked forward to daily reading all the new posts. There was so much info though to absorb. Will there be another post summarizing the findings from all these experiments, as to the best vessels, cooking methods, best temps, best amounts of liquid, best braising liquids etc.? I think that would be very informative and helpful to many people, as there were so many threads to follow. Thanks much :-).


Here is the summary I made as the week went along:

POTS

– An enameled cast iron (ECI) Dutch oven is best.  However, avoid LeCreuset, which is overpriced and has phenolic handles that deteriorate in heat (or get old, metal-handle ones on eBay).  Staub is just as good (maybe even a bit heavier) and has metal handles.  A matte black surface seems to work best.

ECI cooks faster than other materials.  It's not easy to clean, so brown the meat in a sauté pan and deglaze the pan thoroughly into the cooking vessel. 

– Copper works very well, but ECI holds, transfers and evens out the heat better.

– Calphalon Professional Nonstick II Anodized Aluminum is almost as good as ECI, has a glass lid and metal handles, produces a good fond and is easy to clean.  The best choice overall, and works well on a stovetop braise.

– unglazed clay works well, and the result seems to improve more on subsequent days.

– Corningware (ceramic without metal) gives good results but is slow.

– heavy metal meatloaf pans, very well sealed with foil, are OK for small batches but must be airtight – not as good as ECI, so make a full recipe and keep it for later days, when it’s better anyway.

– Stainless steel clad aluminum is next, Pyrex is poor, and a foil tray is dreadful (and very slow).

- Do NOT use unclad aluminum, which is very reactive, even without acidic ingredients such as tomatoes.

SEALING

Sealing the lid keeps the liquid from evaporating and enhances the cooking.  The ancient method is to apply a flour/water dough between lid and vessel. Lifting the lid breaks the seal, so you have to know your oven perfectly.  The modern method is to put a double layer of aluminum foil between lid and vessel. Lifting is easy, and the seal is almost as perfect.  Parchment paper may also work.

MEAT

Tough, fatty cuts are essential, since the connective tissue breaks down and enriches the sauce.  Bones are helpful.  Short ribs or flanken (boneless short ribs) are good, and shin and oxtail are even better, with more gelatin.  Shoulder and breast of lamb are good.

Starting with frozen meat is just as good as thawing.

SALTING

From André Guillot, a famous French chef: lightly salt the meat the minute you bring it home. You will hardly need to salt later, and you’ll use half as much salt as you would normally. Lightly salted meat will tenderize and mature in flavor when stored overnight in the refrigerator.

After salting, coat the meat lightly with grape-seed oil, which will keep it from drying out; Some blood will run out, but this is insignificant.

BROWNING

A non-non-stick pan on the stovetop is best, since non-stick prevents formation of fond.  Cast iron is perfect.  Under the broiler is hard to control and can dry the meat out.  Unbrowned produces good results, but a different, soft texture on the bottom.  The part above the liquid line is identical, browned or not.
For large cuts (e.g., brisket), skip the browning and uncover for the last 1/2 hour.

LIQUID

Wine alone is too strong, especially when reduced.  Worth using perhaps 1:3 with stock?  The solution is to deglaze the browning pan with wine.

Water is weak and blah.

Stock is by far the best, made even better by adding demi-glace. 

Covering the meat leaches out the browning and creates a boiled color and taste.
Standard advice is halfway up the side of the meat, but just 1/2" is even better and gives more tender results.

Beer might be OK.

Mirepoix (carrot/onion/celery) dilutes the flavor and makes the sauce taste like stock.  If you must, toss some in during the sauce reduction process.  If you use stock as the braising liquid, they’re already in it.

The alternate Tom Colicchio (Grammercy Tavern) stovetop method: when you have LOTS of stock, skip browning, pour stock almost to the top and cook uncovered on the stovetop, turning every ½ hour to keep drying one side while moistening the other.

STOVETOP VS. OVEN

A heavy pot with a tight seal gives excellent results on the stovetop.  With the Calphalon glass top, it’s much easier to monitor and handle, too.  However, steady heat, coming from all sides in the oven, as in ECI, is perhaps a little bit better

COOKING TEMPERATURE

Low heat (200) results in a little less shrinkage, but no difference in flavor.  It’s not worth the much longer cooking time (5 hours still not enough for heavy pork ribs).

Preheat the oven to 325.  After 1/2 hour, if the liquid is more than barely trembling, turn it down to 300 or 275.  Thus reduces the sauce better and increases caramelization.  However, 300 is necessary to melt the collagen and get a proper braise.

CLARIFYING THE SAUCE

From Paula Wolfert.  Strain the sauce, pressing down on all the solids with the back of a spoon; cool the entire sauce down; remove all the fat that rises; put the remaining liquid (scum and clear) in a small wide saucepan; and set over heat to bring to a boil. Now, shove the saucepan half off the heat and cook at a slow boil, skimming off all the scum-like solids that rise to the top on the cool side of the liquid for about 10 minutes, or until reduced enough to coat a spoon lightly.

PROCEDURE

1. Brown the meat well. with a small amount of oil, 1 to 1-1/2 min. on each side.  A plain cast iron pan works better for this than E/CI or non-stick.

2. Don’t pack the vessel too tight – 1" between pieces and between the meat and the side.

3. Use only a little liquid.  The standard is halfway up the side of the meat, but even better is ½" deep.

4. Cook very slowly in the oven.

5. Don't cook the meat to mush. A fork should go in easily and release easily but grip the meat slightly, and the fork holes shouldn’t stay open.  For short ribs, 2 hours is about right. 

6. Refrigerate, skim the fat and eat the next day.

REHEATING

Always better the next day, and there are significant improvements on the following day.

Reheat uncovered at 275 in a shallow, ovenproof serving dish, to deepen the flavor.  Turn once while reheating.

View Post



#70 k43

k43
  • participating member
  • 292 posts

Posted 09 March 2005 - 08:19 AM

Actually ... I wrote "non-non-stick" -- a pan without a nonstick coating.

#71 Smithy

Smithy
  • society donor
  • 2,161 posts

Posted 09 March 2005 - 09:12 AM

Actually ... I wrote "non-non-stick" -- a pan without a nonstick coating.

View Post

That's a problem in terminology, isn't it? I'm tempted to call it a "stick" pan, but that gives the wrong idea as well. :laugh:

Good summary, k43.

I have at least one minor quibble with your summary: in my experience the Le Creuset was not difficult to clean, although it looked like it would be. I did not, nor would I in the future, brown the meat in another pan and then transfer it with the deglazing liquid to the LC. One or some other posters said it didn't brown as well as stainless steel, but that was not my experience either.
Nancy Smith

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " --Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production."

--author unknown

#72 fifi

fifi
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 7,727 posts

Posted 09 March 2005 - 10:03 AM

I will second the LC easy cleaning. The most awful looking burned on mess cleans up after a few minutes soak with hot water and Dawn. Only occasionally have I had to resort to Dawn Power Dissolver. And that was after I did something really stupid. I do get an occasional stain that comes out with about 15 minutes of a soak with chlorine bleach solution.

I just looked on the LC web site and they have changed the wording a bit but they used to recommend setting your burner one notch lower than usual. It does take a little longer but it browns stuff just fine. The only time I don't brown in the LC is if I am in a hurry and want to use my big fry pan so I don't have to do two batches. I have also recently learned in another braising thread about browning short ribs in the oven. Now there is an idea.

My sister has a LC that is at least 25 years old. It has the original knob. I have never replaced one, either. I do like the older design, though. It just looks cooler.
Linda LaRose aka "fifi"

"Having spent most of my life searching for truth in the excitement of science, I am now in search of the perfectly seared foie gras without any sweet glop." Linda LaRose

#73 Wolfert

Wolfert
  • participating member
  • 1,214 posts

Posted 09 March 2005 - 10:21 AM

I thought the summary was terrific. Thank you so much.

I would like to add a few points that somehow got lost along the way and I think could be helpful to those who like to braise in earthenware and want browned meat to start it off.

I use a shallow heavy bottomed (berndes) pan to brown meat in batches before adding them to a braising pan. (This allows me to use my earthenware daube which coddles the meat in a braise to perfection.)

I heat the empty skillet until really hot, then add the fat or oil, and that sizzles, I immediately add just seasoned cubes of meat. I work in batches and the browning goes very fast. I never have trouble cleaning this particular skillet. IN fact, I can deglaze it and add those browning juices to the daubiere as well.

This method keeps in all the meat juices. If you brown meat cubes in a hot oven, you risk drying out the meat no matter how hot the oven.
The only time I broil meat cubes before braising would be when I am using oxtails for a braise. Their odd shape screams out to be broiled rather than skillet browned.

Also, I noticed the overnight separation of meat and juices was dropped from the summary. I think that methoc really makes a difference in the texture and flavor.


Another comment I would like to add. In some Mediterranean countries, the meat to be braised is browned at the end of the cooking. For example check out recipes for most Moroccan lamb tagines.

Edited by Wolfert, 09 March 2005 - 10:25 AM.

“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#74 Smithy

Smithy
  • society donor
  • 2,161 posts

Posted 09 March 2005 - 10:48 AM

I thought the summary was terrific. Thank you so much.

I would like to add a few points that somehow got lost along the way and I think could be helpful to those who like to braise in earthenware and want browned meat to start it off.

I use a shallow heavy bottomed (berndes) pan to brown meat in batches before adding them to a braising pan. (This allows me to use my earthenware daube which coddles  the meat in a braise to perfection.)

I heat the empty skillet until really hot, then add the fat or oil, and that sizzles, I immediately add just seasoned cubes of meat. I work in batches and the browning goes very fast. I never have trouble cleaning this particular skillet. IN fact, I can deglaze it and add those browning juices to the daubiere as well.

This method keeps in all the meat juices. If you brown meat cubes  in a hot oven, you risk drying out the meat no matter how hot the oven.
The only time I  broil meat cubes before braising would be when I am using oxtails for a braise. Their odd shape screams out to be broiled rather than skillet browned.

Also, I noticed the overnight separation of meat and juices was dropped from the summary. I think that methoc really makes a difference in the texture and flavor.


Another comment I would like to add. In some Mediterranean countries, the meat to be braised is browned at the end of the cooking. For example check out recipes for most Moroccan  lamb tagines.

View Post


Thanks for adding those points, Wolfert. The separation of meat and juice during storage does seem to make a difference in texture and flavor. Another practical benefit I've noticed is that it's much easier to get the congealed fat off the juice if there isn't meat cluttering up the container.

Would you please expand a bit on the idea of browning at the end of the braise? Is that done by leaving the lid off and turning the meat as the liquid reduces? Is this a stovetop or oven technique, or both? I like the idea that it saves me from having to mess up a pan for browning when I plan to braise in a clay pot. What difference does it make to the final product whether the browning happens at the beginning or the end?

Moderator's Note: We've split Wolfert's response to this question and the posts that followed into a separate thread on Moroccan tagine cooking. Click here for that discussion.
Nancy Smith

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " --Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production."

--author unknown

#75 fifi

fifi
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 7,727 posts

Posted 14 March 2005 - 12:51 PM

I have gotten the pots of my dreams . . . Black Chamba, an unglazed clay from Columbia. And, let me add, it is all Wolfert's fault that my Amex card is now lying, pitifully wheezing, on my desk. :laugh: (Actually, these things are a remarkable bargain.) So, with pots in hand, I am going to braise some chicken.

I am using a recipe that I have done dozens, maybe hundreds of times. I chose it because I have done it so often, I should be able to detect a "clay pot effect" even though this is not exactly a scientific comparison.

The recipe originated with a friend's treasured cook and housekeeper about 30 years ago. We call it Lily Mae's Chicken. It couldn't be simpler. Lightly brown seasoned chicken pieces, or not. (Lily Mae didn't if she was cooking for 100 at the summer house across the lake.) Mix up enough sauce to provide liquid about half way up the chicken: 1 part good olive oil, 1 part fresh squeezed lemon juice, 2 parts dry white wine. Add as much garlic as you can peel. Braise at about 250 to 275 degrees F until meltingly tender, about 2 1/2 to 3 hours, basting intermittently and taking the lid off for the last half hour or so. You can add other seasonings if you like. I do from time to time and that might be capers, olives, some herb mix, minced preserved lemon to kick up the lemon flavor.

Just to demonstrate the main pot and its babies, and to show that I am doing it "Wolfert's Way," this is a shot of the main pot ready to go into a cold oven and turned on to 250 degrees F. (That is just my preference.)

Posted Image

That is the 2 quart bean pot and the 2 cup individual casseroles. Under the parchment are four chicken thighs with about a cup and a quarter of the sauce, a head of garlic and a couple of tablespoons of capers. I did sprinkle on some Greek Seasoning I got at Penzey's because it caught my eye and seemed like a good idea at the time. (It was.)

Posted Image

It was done after about 2 1/2 hours. A few notes: With the parchment, I didn't do the usual basting. As it turns out, I didn't need to. In braises like this, I quit peeling garlic a long time ago. I just whack a head in half and dump it in. It isn't hard to pick the peels out after cooking. Perversely, I actually enjoy doing that. :blink:

I have just been remembering that russ parsons, back in the dried bean thread, noted that his epitaph will read "Did not soak dried beans" or something like that. Well, mine will say "Always cooked four chicken thighs." Hey, it works for me, remember I am now cooking for one.

Anyway, having strained and stored, I am ready for the reheat step. This is where the baby pots come in. My strategy is to store the meat and liquid but be prepared to reheat in individual servings. In these pots or for a normal serving I would normally reheat two thighs. Unfortunately, I kept picking at the darn things and only had one presentable thigh left. Oh well, that is all I want for lunch anyway.

Posted Image

Here we go with the jelled juices and a bit of the olive oil. I put the cover on and into a cold oven, turned to 250 degrees F and it was done in 30 minutes.

Houston, we have lunch!

Posted Image

Final verdict? Clay pots produce absolutely excellent chicken. And, they are so darn pretty. Parchment paper gave me the same results as the usual basting for this recipe. I am now a believer. I can't wait to try this with beef short ribs. It also occurs to me that the milk braised pork would look fabulous in the black pots, and then there is that beef short rib recipe with pieces of red tomato, then . . .

Uh oh. Here is hoping that I am not at the beginning of another serious pot addiction. :biggrin:
Linda LaRose aka "fifi"

"Having spent most of my life searching for truth in the excitement of science, I am now in search of the perfectly seared foie gras without any sweet glop." Linda LaRose

#76 Wolfert

Wolfert
  • participating member
  • 1,214 posts

Posted 14 March 2005 - 01:02 PM

I am thrilled. REPEAT: I am thrilled with your response. The dish looks wonderful.

And the more you use that claypot,the better it will perform.

.
“C’est dans les vieux pots, qu’on fait la bonne soupe!”, or ‘it is in old pots that good soup is made’.

#77 snowangel

snowangel
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 8,140 posts

Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:10 PM

Oh, fifi. You continue to hypnotize. Pretty soon, my husband is going to hate you! So, now I need one of these pots. I'd better start saving, making excuses or hoping that I can stumble on one (or more!) at Marshall's or TJ Maxx.
Susan Fahning aka "snowangel"

#78 Smithy

Smithy
  • society donor
  • 2,161 posts

Posted 20 March 2005 - 12:37 PM

Moderator's Note: We've split Wolfert's response to this question and the posts that followed into a separate thread on Moroccan tagine cooking. Click here for that discussion.

View Post

Followup sometime later: the new Moroccan tagine cooking thread has further comparison between braising in clay pots and braising in other vessels. Those interested should make sure they check out that thread, too.
Nancy Smith

"Every day should be filled with something delicious, because life is too short not to spoil yourself. " --Ling (with permission)

"There comes a time in every project when you have to shoot the engineer and start production."

--author unknown

#79 CharityCase

CharityCase
  • participating member
  • 307 posts

Posted 20 September 2005 - 07:33 AM

Thanks so much to everyone for this extensive braising course.

I wish I had the pictures to document things, but I braised about 4 pounds of short ribs on Saturday.

Pulling various bits of advice and info from the courses here, I first seared them in a cast iron skillet with some clarified butter. In went mirepoix which were cooked fairly quickly (i.e. translucent onions) and then deglazed with a 1/4c of a Niagara Merlot/Cabernet that was kicking around.

I was able to fit the cast iron skillet and a large stainless steel dutch oven onto one rack in the oven. As the pieces varied in size I grouped meaty and not-so-meaty and loaded them into their respective vessles along with mirepoix and a 3:1 beef stock/wine combo (thanks to someone's suggestion about trying that earlier in the thread) and, as per suggestions added about a half-inch to the pans.

Both went into a pre-heated 325 degree oven, the cast iron covered in foil and the dutch oven with lid intact. They were left alone for the first hour then checked every half hour, for doneness and to skim off some of the larger portions of fat and replace with a bit of liquid.

After 170 minutes they were pulled and all liquid was put onto an ice bath, then into the fridge. Sure enough tere was a very large layer of fat that was removed, leaving plenty of tasty, beefy liquid which I reduced and flavoured with S&P, and a bouquet garni of rosemary, bay, oregano and flat-leaf parsley.

Everything was truly fantastic, almost as much as the shockingly-low cost of the meat ($21 CDN) that fed 8 people! This was a great course and I'm glad to have found such helpful advice before attempting what, really, is quite a simple but pleasing preparation of beef.

Incidentally I found that the unglazed cast iron gave a better appearance to the finished product, while taste differences between it and stainless were very slight. With different types of vessels I did have to fiddle a bit with temperature and rack palcement to ensure the two were cooking evenly and at the same pace.

Thanks to all (and in the words of my dinner guests: "Who knew something with a bone could taste this good!")

#80 Jesse A

Jesse A
  • participating member
  • 52 posts

Posted 22 December 2005 - 04:12 PM

Great advice! (See below)

My question: do all these guidelines (especially regarding pre-salting the meat and browning) apply to poultry?


I've really enjoyed reading about the braising experiments, and also the photos showing the progress along the way, as well as the finished products. I looked forward to daily reading all the new posts. There was so much info though to absorb. Will there be another post summarizing the findings from all these experiments, as to the best vessels, cooking methods, best temps, best amounts of liquid, best braising liquids etc.? I think that would be very informative and helpful to many people, as there were so many threads to follow. Thanks much :-).



Here is the summary I made as the week went along:

POTS

– An enameled cast iron (ECI) Dutch oven is best. However, avoid LeCreuset, which is overpriced and has phenolic handles that deteriorate in heat (or get old, metal-handle ones on eBay). Staub is just as good (maybe even a bit heavier) and has metal handles. A matte black surface seems to work best.

ECI cooks faster than other materials. It's not easy to clean, so brown the meat in a sauté pan and deglaze the pan thoroughly into the cooking vessel.

– Copper works very well, but ECI holds, transfers and evens out the heat better.

– Calphalon Professional Nonstick II Anodized Aluminum is almost as good as ECI, has a glass lid and metal handles, produces a good fond and is easy to clean. The best choice overall, and works well on a stovetop braise.

– unglazed clay works well, and the result seems to improve more on subsequent days.

– Corningware (ceramic without metal) gives good results but is slow.

– heavy metal meatloaf pans, very well sealed with foil, are OK for small batches but must be airtight – not as good as ECI, so make a full recipe and keep it for later days, when it’s better anyway.

– Stainless steel clad aluminum is next, Pyrex is poor, and a foil tray is dreadful (and very slow).

- Do NOT use unclad aluminum, which is very reactive, even without acidic ingredients such as tomatoes.

SEALING

Sealing the lid keeps the liquid from evaporating and enhances the cooking. The ancient method is to apply a flour/water dough between lid and vessel. Lifting the lid breaks the seal, so you have to know your oven perfectly. The modern method is to put a double layer of aluminum foil between lid and vessel. Lifting is easy, and the seal is almost as perfect. Parchment paper may also work.

MEAT

Tough, fatty cuts are essential, since the connective tissue breaks down and enriches the sauce. Bones are helpful. Short ribs or flanken (boneless short ribs) are good, and shin and oxtail are even better, with more gelatin. Shoulder and breast of lamb are good.

Starting with frozen meat is just as good as thawing.

SALTING

From André Guillot, a famous French chef: lightly salt the meat the minute you bring it home. You will hardly need to salt later, and you’ll use half as much salt as you would normally. Lightly salted meat will tenderize and mature in flavor when stored overnight in the refrigerator.

After salting, coat the meat lightly with grape-seed oil, which will keep it from drying out; Some blood will run out, but this is insignificant.

BROWNING

A non-non-stick pan on the stovetop is best, since non-stick prevents formation of fond. Cast iron is perfect. Under the broiler is hard to control and can dry the meat out. Unbrowned produces good results, but a different, soft texture on the bottom. The part above the liquid line is identical, browned or not.
For large cuts (e.g., brisket), skip the browning and uncover for the last 1/2 hour.

LIQUID

Wine alone is too strong, especially when reduced. Worth using perhaps 1:3 with stock? The solution is to deglaze the browning pan with wine.

Water is weak and blah.

Stock is by far the best, made even better by adding demi-glace.

Covering the meat leaches out the browning and creates a boiled color and taste.
Standard advice is halfway up the side of the meat, but just 1/2" is even better and gives more tender results.

Beer might be OK.

Mirepoix (carrot/onion/celery) dilutes the flavor and makes the sauce taste like stock. If you must, toss some in during the sauce reduction process. If you use stock as the braising liquid, they’re already in it.

The alternate Tom Colicchio (Grammercy Tavern) stovetop method: when you have LOTS of stock, skip browning, pour stock almost to the top and cook uncovered on the stovetop, turning every ½ hour to keep drying one side while moistening the other.

STOVETOP VS. OVEN

A heavy pot with a tight seal gives excellent results on the stovetop. With the Calphalon glass top, it’s much easier to monitor and handle, too. However, steady heat, coming from all sides in the oven, as in ECI, is perhaps a little bit better

COOKING TEMPERATURE

Low heat (200) results in a little less shrinkage, but no difference in flavor. It’s not worth the much longer cooking time (5 hours still not enough for heavy pork ribs).

Preheat the oven to 325. After 1/2 hour, if the liquid is more than barely trembling, turn it down to 300 or 275. Thus reduces the sauce better and increases caramelization. However, 300 is necessary to melt the collagen and get a proper braise.

CLARIFYING THE SAUCE

From Paula Wolfert. Strain the sauce, pressing down on all the solids with the back of a spoon; cool the entire sauce down; remove all the fat that rises; put the remaining liquid (scum and clear) in a small wide saucepan; and set over heat to bring to a boil. Now, shove the saucepan half off the heat and cook at a slow boil, skimming off all the scum-like solids that rise to the top on the cool side of the liquid for about 10 minutes, or until reduced enough to coat a spoon lightly.

PROCEDURE

1. Brown the meat well. with a small amount of oil, 1 to 1-1/2 min. on each side. A plain cast iron pan works better for this than E/CI or non-stick.

2. Don’t pack the vessel too tight – 1" between pieces and between the meat and the side.

3. Use only a little liquid. The standard is halfway up the side of the meat, but even better is ½" deep.

4. Cook very slowly in the oven.

5. Don't cook the meat to mush. A fork should go in easily and release easily but grip the meat slightly, and the fork holes shouldn’t stay open. For short ribs, 2 hours is about right.

6. Refrigerate, skim the fat and eat the next day.

REHEATING

Always better the next day, and there are significant improvements on the following day.

Reheat uncovered at 275 in a shallow, ovenproof serving dish, to deepen the flavor. Turn once while reheating.

View Post



#81 Kouign Aman

Kouign Aman
  • participating member
  • 2,653 posts

Posted 15 February 2007 - 11:40 AM

This was fascinating. Thank you, all who did the work!
One thing caught my eye in lab#1, and was subsequently supported by slkinsey's information:
the aluminum foil pan pieces almost never were left in long enough to reach the same internal temperatures as the pieces in the other containers. Regardless of container, the final meat temp is a reflection of how 'done' it is.
Im thinking that the thin pan lost much more heat than the others with every opening of the oven to check temps, which is part of why the meat in there would require longer to finish.

I'd be interested in comparing results for an infrequently opened oven, where the cast iron was compared to aluminum foil pan, for meat allowed to reach the same final temp.
Since it aint a gonna happen in my house anytime soon*, I'll just cross my fingers and hope someone else is also curious. *no iron or clay pots or heavy aluminum for that matter. Nothing oven safe with a lid.

I've done many braises with no added liquid. I just piled sliced onions and bellpeppers on the meat, covered, and cooked low and slow. It works a treat. Those veggies tend to create a sweet sauce.
"You dont know everything in the world! You just know how to read!" -an ah-hah! moment for 6-yr old Miss O.

#82 Marlene

Marlene
  • eGullet Society staff emeritus
  • 8,119 posts

Posted 15 February 2007 - 11:47 AM

I've done many braises with no added liquid. I just piled sliced onions and bellpeppers on the meat, covered, and cooked low and slow. It works a treat. Those veggies tend to create a sweet sauce.

View Post


Interesting you mention this. I've got a braised pork chop recipe from one of my recent cooking classes to try tonight that does exactly this. I had to read the recipe three times to make sure I wasn't missing the liquid!
Marlene
cookskorner

Practice. Do it over. Get it right.
Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.

#83 hathor

hathor
  • participating member
  • 2,689 posts

Posted 12 March 2007 - 12:12 PM

Fifi, those black columbian pots are total workhorses! I use them all the time, and as Paula said, they just get better and better. If you scout around for them, they can be had at a very reasonable price.
Although technically not a braise, I used my open/flat one for a Le Marche inspired dinner last night.

Beautiful summary on the braise, by the way.

#84 kristin_71

kristin_71
  • participating member
  • 229 posts

Posted 16 March 2007 - 12:09 AM

The pots: The first question I want to address is the pots. Do the pots have any real effect on chicken? I will be using the little Le Creuset, a Corning Ware dish of comparable size, and a cheap foil pan with a foil cover. (I am skeptical about the foil thing, but, oh well.)


I love Le Creuset and would never use anything else for braising. I would suggest instead of using a foil pan as a cover, try parchment paper. The lids that come LeCreuset are actually the best though. :smile:

#85 RobertCollins

RobertCollins
  • participating member
  • 275 posts

Posted 17 June 2007 - 12:33 PM

Sometimes in the winter I'll decide that the Seattle rain won't let me go to my smoker for pulled pork and so I simply slice a couple yellow onions about 1/2 " to cover my LC and lay a whole pork butt/shoulder on top [salt and pepper is all I use on the meat], cover and put in the 200 degree F oven over night. Looking for 190 degrees next day.

Allow to set for at least an hour , chop and stir with the onions and juices. Serve on buns or with Kraut or on my fav good Egg Noodles, buttered a bit.

Thanks belatedly for a great series. FG started by quoting James Beard "T&P" and amazingly the conclusions seem to match.
Robert

#86 genarog

genarog
  • participating member
  • 102 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 10:15 AM

Has anyone tested side by side braising with pressure cooking?

Yesterday I was short on time but needed to braise some oxtail. I recovered my pressure cooker from the basement and put it to work at a low steam for about 1 hour. The results were much better than all my previous braising attempts including those where I tried to replicate the methods discussed in the Brasing Labs series. Nothing scientific here for sure, but maybe worth exploring.

#87 JAZ

JAZ
  • manager
  • 4,853 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 11:59 AM

I've switched almost exclusively to my pressure cooker when braising. The main difference I've found is that the cooking liquid doesn't evaporate at all in the pressure cooker, so I usually have to reduce my sauce more. Other than that, I really can't tell any difference.

#88 heidih

heidih
  • host
  • 9,211 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 05:04 PM

I've switched almost exclusively to my pressure cooker when braising. The main difference I've found is that the cooking liquid doesn't evaporate at all in the pressure cooker, so I usually have to reduce my sauce more. Other than that, I really can't tell any difference.

View Post


My neighbor just picked up a pressure cooker and has been playing with it. She said I could give it a test run as well. Are you still doing a dredge in flour, brown in fat, and then put in the pc?
Heidi Husnak aka "heidih"
Host, eG Forums
hhusnak@eGstaff.org
My eGullet Food blog

#89 JAZ

JAZ
  • manager
  • 4,853 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:24 PM

Are you still doing a dredge in flour, brown in fat, and then put in the pc?

View Post

I never dredge meat in flour, regardless of how I braise.

But yes, I proceed just the same way I would if I were braising in a Dutch oven, so usually that means I brown first, then add the liquid, then lock the lid into place and cook.

#90 heidih

heidih
  • host
  • 9,211 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 07:57 PM

Are you still doing a dredge in flour, brown in fat, and then put in the pc?

View Post

I never dredge meat in flour, regardless of how I braise.

But yes, I proceed just the same way I would if I were braising in a Dutch oven, so usually that means I brown first, then add the liquid, then lock the lid into place and cook.

View Post


When I first learned to cook it was via Julia Child and Mastering the Art of French Cooking Volume 1 so I have that flour step stamped in my brain. I am eager to try the pressure cooker method.
Heidi Husnak aka "heidih"
Host, eG Forums
hhusnak@eGstaff.org
My eGullet Food blog