Jump to content


Welcome to the eG Forums!

These forums are a service of the Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, a 501c3 nonprofit organization dedicated to advancement of the culinary arts. Anyone can read the forums, however if you would like to participate in active discussions please join the society.

Photo

Cooking with Liquid Nitrogen

Modernist

  • Please log in to reply
189 replies to this topic

#61 Shalmanese

Shalmanese
  • participating member
  • 3,528 posts
  • Location:San Francisco

Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:25 PM

Of course, the other thing you could do which has some great potential -- though no ideas jump out at me at the moment is "cooking with liquid oxygen".

View Post


Well, I could certainly imagine being able to play around a bit with tableside cooking... if you could work out the liability issues with people getting burnt.
PS: I am a guy.

#62 inventolux

inventolux
  • participating member
  • 664 posts

Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:07 PM

Wow, this thread has really blown me away with some interesting ideas... a few questions arise..

(1) How do the oysters shuck themselves? Do the shells break apart or do they open magically... basically, is the shell lost in the process?
(2) For freezing things that normally dont freeze, how long do they last in that crystalline state? I'm thinking mostly about those pure honey garnishes.

View Post


You put the oysters into the nitro for a certain amount of time (seconds depending on the size of the oyster) and pull them out. The calcium shell doesnt have the ability to expand and contract so the top shell pops off. Once you get the timing down to where you dont actually freeze the oyster meat then you can just go nuts with it.

Belon oysters have never been easier.

Edited by inventolux, 03 May 2006 - 09:08 PM.

Future Food - our new television show airing 3/30 @ 9pm cst:
http://planetgreen.d...tv/future-food/

Hope you enjoy the show! Homaro Cantu
Chef/Owner of Moto Restaurant
www.motorestaurant.com

#63 Silly Disciple

Silly Disciple
  • participating member
  • 532 posts
  • Location:Barcelona, Spain

Posted 04 May 2006 - 03:53 AM

Of course, the other thing you could do which has some great potential -- though no ideas jump out at me at the moment is "cooking with liquid oxygen".

View Post


Well, I could certainly imagine being able to play around a bit with tableside cooking... if you could work out the liability issues with people getting burnt.

View Post


Liquid nitrogen is indeed used tableside both at El Bulli and The Fat Duck.
We''ve opened Pazzta 920, a fresh pasta stall in the Boqueria Market. follow the thread here.
My blog, the Adventures of A Silly Disciple.

#64 Shalmanese

Shalmanese
  • participating member
  • 3,528 posts
  • Location:San Francisco

Posted 04 May 2006 - 09:58 PM

Of course, the other thing you could do which has some great potential -- though no ideas jump out at me at the moment is "cooking with liquid oxygen".

View Post


Well, I could certainly imagine being able to play around a bit with tableside cooking... if you could work out the liability issues with people getting burnt.

View Post


Liquid nitrogen is indeed used tableside both at El Bulli and The Fat Duck.

View Post


I know LN2 is used tableside. I was envisioning *cooking* tableside with LOX.
PS: I am a guy.

#65 bunny

bunny
  • participating member
  • 121 posts

Posted 25 August 2006 - 05:52 AM

has anyone used it lately for anything new

#66 alanamoana

alanamoana
  • participating member
  • 2,738 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 28 March 2007 - 08:14 AM

This might be interesting to BryanZ and the molecular gang.

I was recently googling mortar and pestle (mostly to figure out which one was which :blink: ) and they had a photo on the Wikipedia page bottom right that showed pulverized plant product using liquid nitrogen to get a powder instead of a paste. I thought it was pretty neat and it would be an interesting way (if one had access to liquid nitrogen) to make fruit dusts and stuff on the cheap.

Anyone else have any ideas for this?

#67 nduran

nduran
  • legacy participant
  • 145 posts

Posted 29 March 2007 - 04:00 PM

I can't imagine it remaining a powder at room temperature.

#68 hummingbirdkiss

hummingbirdkiss
  • participating member
  • 1,593 posts

Posted 29 March 2007 - 04:26 PM

it can remain powder because the nitrogen dehydrates things as well ...freeze dried

liquid nitrogen can be obtained from a welding supply store like Airgas or Praxair ... but you need a duwer or you could rent one sometimes they will do that at these stores.....or a thermos bottle stainless steel ..they will fill that as well...but that would not be as cheap as a whole duwer

Edited by hummingbirdkiss, 29 March 2007 - 04:28 PM.


#69 nduran

nduran
  • legacy participant
  • 145 posts

Posted 29 March 2007 - 04:37 PM

Do you mean Dewar?

#70 chezcherie

chezcherie
  • participating member
  • 1,288 posts

Posted 29 March 2007 - 04:54 PM

(here's how i remember the answer to your original question:
the pestle is NOT the vessel.
the little rhyme helps me, and if the pestle is not the vessel, it must be--and is--the pounder goodie.)
"Laughter is brightest where food is best."
www.chezcherie.com
Author of The I Love Trader Joe's Cookbook ,The I Love Trader Joe's Party Cookbook and The I Love Trader Joe's Around the World Cookbook

#71 hummingbirdkiss

hummingbirdkiss
  • participating member
  • 1,593 posts

Posted 29 March 2007 - 05:24 PM

Do you mean Dewar?

View Post


I could I dont know how to spell it ..the big thing that you keep the liquid nitrogen in that has the dipper to get it out ..whatever that is called ..

#72 BryanZ

BryanZ
  • participating member
  • 2,700 posts
  • Location:NJ,NYC,NC

Posted 29 March 2007 - 08:53 PM

I'm pretty sure Chef Blais has done this quite frequently. He kind of flies under the radar as compared to some of the others but seems to do a lot of interesting things if liquid nitrogen. I personally still have never used the stuff, as I can't get a hold of it.

#73 Dave the Cook

Dave the Cook

    Executive Director

  • manager
  • 7,369 posts
  • Location:Atlanta

Posted 29 March 2007 - 09:56 PM

Bryan's right about Chef Blais. There's a recent article in the Atlanta paper (here, free registration required) that gives a few details. And if you can make your way through Steven's recount of a very long day, you'll be rewarded with a report from what he calls Ferran Adria's bar mitzvah, where Blais set up temporary shop, producing a number of LN2 dishes.

Dave Scantland
Executive director
dscantland@eGstaff.org
eG Ethics signatory

Eat more chicken skin.


#74 nduran

nduran
  • legacy participant
  • 145 posts

Posted 30 March 2007 - 01:35 AM

Do you mean Dewar?

View Post


I could I dont know how to spell it ..the big thing that you keep the liquid nitrogen in that has the dipper to get it out ..whatever that is called ..

View Post



It's actually the name of a person.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/James_Dewar

#75 kumquat

kumquat
  • participating member
  • 18 posts
  • Location:Ithaca, NY

Posted 30 March 2007 - 02:55 AM

How strange to see this topic here because just this morning I ground up lichen samples in lab using liquid nitrogen and a mortar and pestle. The technique is extremely simple once you've got hold of some liquid nitrogen. During the course of the grinding procedure the liquid nitrogen is stored in a columnar hot case (or cold case) though I imagine there would be more efficient ways of storing it. The sample (as little as 100 mg) is placed in the mortar and liquid nitrogen ladled into the mortar. Some of the liquid nitrogen is allowed to boil away so that it doesn't splash out when you try grinding it taking the sample with it. Then you use the pestle to pulverise the sample first with a pounding motion to break the sample into small bits and then with a vigorous grinding motion. The sample becomes brittle like glass and breaks easily. What you're left with is the consistency of fine talc which is completely dry. After that we add liquid to it (in this case alcohol) and it's heated in a water bath.
The whole thing takes all of ten minutes and is really rather fun. Do try it if you get a chance. I love playing with liquid nitrogen. :wub:

#76 hummingbirdkiss

hummingbirdkiss
  • participating member
  • 1,593 posts

Posted 30 March 2007 - 03:27 AM

Do you mean Dewar?

View Post


I could I dont know how to spell it ..the big thing that you keep the liquid nitrogen in that has the dipper to get it out ..whatever that is called ..

View Post



It's actually the name of a person.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/James_Dewar

View Post


oh thanks :smile:

I have nver had a problem finding or buying liquid nitrogen ...I have used it to freeze dry flowers ..I am sure fruit dust could be made very easily with a mortar and pestle and some nitrogen ..

my kids used to freeze grapes in it and drop them on the floor (with spoons not fingers of course ) so they would shatter into dust ...

just as I mentioned above check out welding gas companies you just need a safe container to take it home in (you can use a stainless steel thermos with out screwing the lid down ...just set it on top ...so the bottle does not explode ...

good luck

Edited by hummingbirdkiss, 30 March 2007 - 03:37 AM.


#77 Mallet

Mallet
  • participating member
  • 875 posts
  • Location:Halifax, NS (currently in Kingston ON)

Posted 12 May 2007 - 06:25 AM

I've recently started cooking with liquid nitrogen but so far have only used it for making sorbets and ice-creams. Funnily enough, I started doing this because I don't have an ice cream maker and liquid nitrogen is cheaper and faster for me (I made 3 different sorbets in under 30 min).

Making various powders using a mortar and pestle seems like a simple and very promising avenue, how long do the powders keep? Are they good for preserving aromatics (say a herb or lemon powder), or would something like this just end up tasting like dried powdered supermarket stuff?
Martin Mallet
<i>Poor but not starving student</i>

www.malletoyster.com

#78 Peter Green

Peter Green
  • participating member
  • 1,999 posts
  • Location:Middle East/Bangkok

Posted 12 May 2007 - 06:49 AM

Paco Rancero (from the Casino de Madrid) was doing some demos with this last year at the WGS in Singapore. He did up an "air" of olive oil, and then banged this into the LN. You took this in your mouth in one gulp, and the effect was a "Dragon Oil" with clouds of olive oil flavoured vapour blowing out of your nose.

Here's part of the post:

Dragon oil.

First he works up the air. “Foam and air are not the same”. This is an emulsion of a vinaigrette worked up with balsamic soy lecithin mixed with the oil to give a very foamy result.

I have got to get some liquid nitrogen for the kitchen. Paco and Fernando manhandle a big canister into the work zone, and then crack it open with a screw driver. Paco is grinning over the liquid nitrogen now, like an old friend has just shown up for a drink.

“At –196 C you should respect this. Don’t fear, but respect.” However, we next hear “normally when you work with nitrogen you must wear gloves. Me, no.”

And then it goes into a chilled metal bowl, tendrils of vapour creeping over the countertop like Morticia Adams’ skirt trails. It’s a fantastic table for a Halloween.

The “air” goes into the cloud, and comes out looking for all the world like a marshmellow. Our victim from the audience, cautioned to take it all in one go, can’t do it, and opens her mouth. Everything is vapour everywhere. The second volunteer does better, and the effect is one of a dragon blowing smoke down from its nose. The entire thing evaporates as soon as it hits the inside of your mouth, leaving a taste of olive oil, but exiting so quickly through your nose that you’re left amazed.

Cool. I gotta get me some nitrogen. I think the F1 fans in Bahrain might be able to help me out with this.


#79 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,073 posts

Posted 12 May 2007 - 03:03 PM

I like the idea of the ice cream because it's fast, and requires no specialized machine (the expensive thermos and the protective gear are drawbacks).

One issue with ice cream is hardening it if you want it harder than the soft-serve consistency that the machine produces. When I made ice cream professionally, we had a -80 degree F flash freezer for hardening and curing the ice cream. It took 12 to hours in there, and then a few days in the regular freezer to come up to scooping temperature. The LN2 does it all in a blink.

The stand mixer looks like a natural way to do it.

How long will the LN2 stick around once you fill your thermos?

#80 Mallet

Mallet
  • participating member
  • 875 posts
  • Location:Halifax, NS (currently in Kingston ON)

Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:47 PM

I just use a styrofoam box with a lid (cut with vent holes), and the LN2 is usually good for about an afternoon if you don't disturb it. I only use about 1L at a time, and I imagine that a larger volume in a proper Dewar would last at least a day.
Martin Mallet
<i>Poor but not starving student</i>

www.malletoyster.com

#81 McAuliflower

McAuliflower
  • participating member
  • 245 posts
  • Location:Portland, OR

Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:59 PM

this time around our lab made liquid nitrogen sorbet for our Friday fun:

Posted Image

I was surprised that I didn't have to use a sorbet recipe to achieve a non-icy product. We made raspberry lemonade sorbet (using just straight up juice from a bottle) and a guava puree one that was thinned down with orange juice before freezing.

The texture of these sorbets was amazing.

Posted Image

Though we've done ice cream before, this set of experiments got me really excited. Maybe it was the Champagne we poured on top? :biggrin:

Next time we're making frozen margaritas!
"A gourmet who thinks of calories is like a tart who looks at her watch." --JB
Brownie Points- Culinary Notebook

#82 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,073 posts

Posted 13 May 2007 - 02:35 PM

I just use a styrofoam box with a lid (cut with vent holes), and the LN2 is usually good for about an afternoon if you don't disturb it. I only use about 1L at a time, and I imagine that a larger volume in a proper Dewar would last at least a day.

View Post


So can you actually go to a welding supply shop with a styrofoam box and say 'fill 'er up?'
This is safe?

And what exactly is a Dewar? Is there a reason you can't use a regular thermos (besides the possbilty of closing the lid all the way and turning it into a bomb)? What about a stainless thermos rigged so the lid won't shut all the way?

I'm also curious about measuring the correct volume of of the LN2. Is it difficult with all the steam and bubbling?

And what kinds of materials can you pour it into without worrying about thermal shock issues? I'm guessing a stainless steel measure would be ok; pyrex probably not ...

#83 paulraphael

paulraphael
  • participating member
  • 3,073 posts

Posted 13 May 2007 - 02:47 PM

found on the web: when you're done making ice cream, why not demolish a concrete building?

http://pipeline.cora...rogen_tanks.php

#84 rmillman

rmillman
  • participating member
  • 176 posts

Posted 14 May 2007 - 08:13 AM

I use LN2 for a variety of things since I have access through work (biotech lab).

One favorite is orange cell supremes. Place orange segments in LN2, place in a plasitc bag and hit with a rolling pin. his breaks up the orange into frozen cells.

Last night we mixed these with pastry rocks and cocoa nibs from lepicure, pastry rocks from chef rubber and granulized honey from an asian market. The resulting crunchy mix that crunched back was great.

Another use is similar to the "air" but we use popped popcorn. submerge popcorn for a short time in LN2, remove and serve.

Last fun item is to partially fill a balloon with liquid (I have use chocolate milk, fruit juices, etc), submerge balloon in LN2 until frozen, remove, pop balloon with torch and serve. Yields a hollow frozen sphere.

#85 Peter Green

Peter Green
  • participating member
  • 1,999 posts
  • Location:Middle East/Bangkok

Posted 14 May 2007 - 10:38 AM

As an observation from the photos we've seen here.....

Have you noticed how everyone working with liquid nitrogen always has a big grin on their face?

#86 Marcle Pine

Marcle Pine
  • participating member
  • 10 posts

Posted 06 August 2007 - 08:06 PM

I just use a styrofoam box with a lid (cut with vent holes), and the LN2 is usually good for about an afternoon if you don't disturb it. I only use about 1L at a time, and I imagine that a larger volume in a proper Dewar would last at least a day.

View Post

In a proper dewar, LN2 lasts a lot longer than a day. I have a 10 L dewar and if left untouched, it would take 45 days to evaporate (according to the manufacturer). I get a refill once a week, and I don't notice any loss at all.
Marc Lepine
Atelier Restaurant
Ottawa

#87 Marcle Pine

Marcle Pine
  • participating member
  • 10 posts

Posted 06 August 2007 - 08:06 PM

Is the price per L still under one dollar in the U.S.?

Edited by Marcle Pine, 06 August 2007 - 08:11 PM.

Marc Lepine
Atelier Restaurant
Ottawa

#88 xdrixn

xdrixn
  • participating member
  • 231 posts

Posted 07 August 2007 - 10:03 PM

I have a concern in getting involved that might not be so obvious and that is oxygen depletion in my work area. do those who work with have a oximeter? How long approximately does 1 liter last when poured into a work container? What size room does 1 liter of ln2 become unsafe?
www.adrianvasquez.net

#89 eskay

eskay
  • participating member
  • 194 posts
  • Location:Waterloo, ON

Posted 08 August 2007 - 06:52 PM

Oxygen depletion is usually not an issue as long as the area is well ventilated. A 1L volume of liquid nitrogen expands to about 650L nitrogen gas, which is a little more than half of a cubic metre. Hope that gives a little perspective...there's not much danger from suffocation with the volumes you're talking about. As long as doors/windows are open and the air is moving around it's not a problem.
Kate

#90 xdrixn

xdrixn
  • participating member
  • 231 posts

Posted 09 August 2007 - 08:20 AM

Oxygen depletion is usually not an issue as long as the area is well ventilated.  A 1L volume of liquid nitrogen expands to about 650L nitrogen gas, which is a little more than half of a cubic metre.  Hope that gives a little perspective...there's not much danger from suffocation with the volumes you're talking about.  As long as doors/windows are open and the air is moving around it's not a problem.

View Post



thanks!
www.adrianvasquez.net





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Modernist