33 replies to this topic

[therese]

I came across a type of cheese I'd not previously encountered, either here in the U.S. or in France (where I've spent most of my time in either Normandy or Languedoc). It's called cancoillotte and is a bit like a fondue (except that it's already liquid at room temp), made with skim milk and butter. More about it here.

Having not seen it before myself, I was wondering how commonly it's used in France?

[Laidback]

Cancoillotte is on the menu at Chez Maitre Paul in Paris which is an outpost of Franc-Comtoise cuisine.

Edited by Laidback, 24 January 2005 - 11:37 AM.

[therese]

Cancoillotte is on the menu at Chez Maitre Paul in Paris which is an outpost of Franche-Comté.

Not surprising, as it's a product local to that area.

But is it otherwise consumed elsewhere in France? Presumably a "poor man's" product given that it's made with skim milk. Finding it in Atlanta seems pretty strange, unless perhaps there's some sort of marketing to the U.S. based on it's being "leger" (though my market made no mention of this---I noticed on the ingredient list that it was made with skim milk and so chose it because I'm dieting at the moment).

A bit "La vache qui rit", in point of fact.

[Bux]

www.fromages.com entry on cancoillotte. Cancoillotte is made from a skim milk cheese called Metton. Addly enough although there's a page on cancoillotte, which means it can be ordered from this commerical site, but there's no entry for metton. According to the site, cancoillotte is made by melting metton in a bit of milk or water over low heat and adding butter and salt. It's sold ready made as spread for bread. It also comes in garlic and wine flavors. The closing discription on the entry says it all -- "The taste is simple."

[therese]

The term "metton" apparently refers to the fermented skim milk curd. You actually can buy it from Poitrey and then make the final cancoillotte at home.

[chefzadi]

It's not really cheese. It's a commercially processed cheese product . Presuming that it's a "poorman's product" is not entirely off base. It's an ordinary product for ordinary tastes. Small children probably really like. I've never tasted it. In answer to your question, think of it as French Velveeta (of course better, because its French )

[Ptipois]

Cancoillotte is a regional product, but it is readily available at most supermarkets in the Paris region and in many other parts of France. So one may assume that is has become fairly common as a national (sort-of) cheese. It is available as plain or garlic cancoillotte.
It is not really used like cheese but as an accompaniment to warm foods like poached Morteau sausage (+ a salad), boiled vegetables, pot-au-feu, etc. It is more a condiment than a cheese.

I wouldn't compare it to Velveeta, Velveeta is more like Vache Qui Rit. Cancoillotte is quite unique, unlike anything else. The best analogy I could find would be the runny part of a ripe camembert, shiny and almost translucent, with a mild taste and a slightly rubbery texture. It is neither for "ordinary tastes" (if there is such a thing) nor for sophisticated tastes, it is only, and simply, quite delicious.

Edited by Ptipois, 24 January 2005 - 04:21 PM.

[chefzadi]

Cheese product/condiment in a tub sometimes with added flavors. So it's French Cheese whiz. I couldn't resist. All in good fun. I'll refrain from further comments untill I actually try it.

You're correct The Laughing cow is more like Velveeta. I've heard of Velveeta being referred to as Arkansas Brie. Would Vache Qui Rit be Goussainville Velveeta?

[therese]

It's not really cheese. It's a commercially processed cheese product .  Presuming that it's a "poorman's product" is not entirely off base. It's an ordinary product for ordinary tastes. Small children probably really like. I've never tasted it.  In answer to your question, think of it as French Velveeta (of course better, because its French  )

Well then, high time you tried it. It's quite tasty, not at all Velveeta-ish and most definitely not Cheez Whiz. My "La vache qui rit" comment had to do with its very uniform, gooey texture.

The brand being marketed here in Atlanta (Poitrey's "Gourmande" series, made with 14% butter instead of the lower fat "La belle etoile" product) comes in a version made with kirsch as well as the more common options.

And while we're at it, La vache qui rit isn't very much like Velveeta either.

[chefzadi]

I won't be trying it anytime soon. Don't want to.

La Vache qui rit is a sin against cheese.

It seems that you missed my "tongue in cheek" comments. I offer my opinions, I'm not wagging a finger. And while we're at it why don't we just agree to disagree?

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Cancoillotte is a regional product, but it is readily available at most supermarkets in the Paris region and in many other parts of France. So one may assume that is has become fairly common as a national (sort-of) cheese. It is available as plain or garlic cancoillotte.
It is not really used like cheese but as an accompaniment to warm foods like poached Morteau sausage (+ a salad), boiled vegetables, pot-au-feu, etc. It is more a condiment than a cheese.

I wouldn't compare it to Velveeta, Velveeta is more like Vache Qui Rit. Cancoillotte is quite unique, unlike anything else. The best analogy I could find would be the runny part of a ripe camembert, shiny and almost translucent, with a mild taste and a slightly rubbery texture. It is neither for "ordinary tastes" (if there is such a thing) nor for sophisticated tastes, it is only, and simply, quite delicious.

With all of these qualifications, it may well be worth a taste, no?

[chefzadi]

Cancoillotte is a regional product, but it is readily available at most supermarkets in the Paris region and in many other parts of France. So one may assume that is has become fairly common as a national (sort-of) cheese. It is available as plain or garlic cancoillotte.
It is not really used like cheese but as an accompaniment to warm foods like poached Morteau sausage (+ a salad), boiled vegetables, pot-au-feu, etc. It is more a condiment than a cheese.

I wouldn't compare it to Velveeta, Velveeta is more like Vache Qui Rit. Cancoillotte is quite unique, unlike anything else. The best analogy I could find would be the runny part of a ripe camembert, shiny and almost translucent, with a mild taste and a slightly rubbery texture. It is neither for "ordinary tastes" (if there is such a thing) nor for sophisticated tastes, it is only, and simply, quite delicious.

With all of these qualifications, it may well be worth a taste, no?

How do I answer as subtlely and politely as possible? Non, non, non! If I wanted a cheese sauce/condiment that tasted of ripe camembert with the consistency of a fondue I would simply make one. It doesn't take much time at all. I would peel the camembert (which is a staple in our frigo) give the rind to my 6 year old to eat (she loves the stuff, eats the cheese outside in anyway), add a little of this or that, voila sauce.

As for La vache qui rit, the laughing cow, I still have nightmares about it. The cheap package with 1,2,3,4,5,6 little wedges of cheese wrapped in foil. The surprise inside, cheese that had the mouthfeel of a poorly made roux. The film it left it left in my 4 year old mouth. The horror!

[Bux]

"La vache qui rit." I'm reminded of it's cousin, not Velveeta, but it's European cousin, [i]crème de Gruyère[/e] not to be confused with Gruyère at least not with the aged piece I bought the other day. That stuff, let's not call it cheese, in silver foil triangles used to appear in gourmet food baskets all over America at one time and may still do that. It's a horrid soapy stuff made from leftover bits of inferior cheese whipped up with chemicals and stabilziers, but it was imported and passed for fancy food and, as I said, may still do in some quarters, as no doubt La Vache Qui Rit all the way to the bank does.

[John Talbott]

La Vache qui rit is a sin against cheese.

It's all in the context. Shortly after the War, when I was 18, on my first trip to France, bicycling from Chartres to the Point du Raz, I thought "La vache" was a revelation; my grandkiddies still do. Hey back in the 1950's our Mom's used to make grilled cheese with what we now think of an unspeakably industrial yellow Kraft cheese and in memory anyway, it wasn't all bad.

"Context, history and memory distortion" help us appreciate how come it still sells.

[bleudauvergne]

All of this talk about "processed cheese products" wrapped in foil reminds me of a true abomination - the Apericube. It was served to me at a French friend's house - the only thing I've had to spit out in my napkin in a long time...

Alright, I am going to try this Cancoillotte product and give my report, if I can find some in my neighborhood tonight.

[Boris_A]

I had my first Cancoillotte in a traditional one star restaurant in the Franche Comté during the 80ies. I found it quite good, a kind of a poor man's Mont d'Or. I could immagine there's artisanal cancoillotte and there's industrial junk cancoillotte, just like with, say, Emmentaler cheese.

There's a similar, traditional product (at least wrt. production method, I suspect) in Austria called "Kochkäse", "Glundner-Kas". You can buy it from very rich, creamy to fat free variants.

[therese]

How do I answer as subtlely and politely as possible? Non, non, non!    If I wanted a cheese sauce/condiment that tasted of ripe camembert with the consistency of a fondue I would simply make one.  It doesn't take much time at all. I would peel the camembert (which is a staple in our frigo) give the rind to my 6 year old to eat (she loves the stuff, eats the cheese outside in anyway), add a little of this or that, voila sauce.

Um, you would booger around with a piece of Camembert instead of just eating it?

My "poor man's" comment had nothing to do with the quality of the cheese, but with the fact that it's made with skim milk. I was assuming that the cream had been skimmed for use in some other more luxurious product.

It's not (if internet sources are to be believed) not even remotely a new cheese, and it looks as if pretty much all of the manufacturers are local to the original area and include both small and large producers. The brand I purchased actually bore a "small business labeling exception" tag instead of the usual required nutritional info tag.

[gdg]

i'm born in Lure, in franche comte, a Lure, there everybody, but me, love cancoillotte ... it was call "fromagere"in the old time and home made, specially in haute saone, in Lure ... my grand mother make some ... i have a recipe from the book "franche-comte" i give you the ingredients only cause i try to translate it but to many words i don't know in english ... if someone is interested i translate it ... the main business seems to make the milk "curdle" ( cailler ) ... and heat it

1 milk liter without cream ( lait ecreme )
100 grs of butter
5 cl of milk with cream ( lait non ecreme )
one "pod" ? of garlic ( gousse d'ail )
salt
peper

in my memory this "cheese" is almost liquid, maybe some people like it more or less liquid, i don't know ... they eat it on hot bread most of the time ... i was raise by my grand-grand-mother, she love, use to love that cheese, but i think she doesn't eat as much as she want cause i hate the odor, my grand mother use to love me better than cancoillotte

[chefzadi]

How do I answer as subtlely and politely as possible? Non, non, non!    If I wanted a cheese sauce/condiment that tasted of ripe camembert with the consistency of a fondue I would simply make one.  It doesn't take much time at all. I would peel the camembert (which is a staple in our frigo) give the rind to my 6 year old to eat (she loves the stuff, eats the cheese outside in anyway), add a little of this or that, voila sauce.

Um, you would booger around with a piece of Camembert instead of just eating it?

My "poor man's" comment had nothing to do with the quality of the cheese, but with the fact that it's made with skim milk. I was assuming that the cream had been skimmed for use in some other more luxurious product.

It's not (if internet sources are to be believed) not even remotely a new cheese, and it looks as if pretty much all of the manufacturers are local to the original area and include both small and large producers. The brand I purchased actually bore a "small business labeling exception" tag instead of the usual required nutritional info tag.

I reread my post and I said IF I wanted this type of cheese/condiment sauce I would
just make it. I didn't say that I would make it.

What is boogering?

Edited by chefzadi, 25 January 2005 - 08:03 AM.

[chefzadi]

i'm born in Lure, in franche comte, a Lure, there everybody, but me, love cancoillotte ... it was call "fromagere"in the old time and home made, specially in haute saone, in Lure ... my grand mother make some ... i have a  recipe from the book "franche-comte" i give you the ingredients only cause i try to translate it but to many words i don't know in english ... if someone is interested i translate it ...  the main business seems to make the milk  "curdle" ( cailler ) ... and heat it

1 milk liter without cream ( lait ecreme )
100 grs of butter
5 cl of milk with cream ( lait non ecreme )
one "pod" ? of garlic ( gousse d'ail )
salt
peper

in my memory this "cheese" is almost liquid, maybe some people like it more or less liquid, i don't know ... they eat it on hot bread most of the time ... i was raise by my grand-grand-mother, she love, use to love that cheese, but i think she doesn't eat as much as she want cause i hate the odor, my grand mother use to love me better than cancoillotte

This is the version that I would try. Thank you for the recipe.

[chefzadi]

La Vache qui rit is a sin against cheese.

It's all in the context. Shortly after the War, when I was 18, on my first trip to France, bicycling from Chartres to the Point du Raz, I thought "La vache" was a revelation; my grandkiddies still do. Hey back in the 1950's our Mom's used to make grilled cheese with what we now think of an unspeakably industrial yellow Kraft cheese and in memory anyway, it wasn't all bad.

"Context, history and memory distortion" help us appreciate how come it still sells.

Yes, context. They serve La Vache in the First Class Lounge of Asiana Airlines in Seoul. They sincerely offered it me as French Cheese.

[Bux]

Yes, context. They serve La Vache in the First Class Lounge of Asiana Airlines in Seoul. They sincerely offered it me as French Cheese.

Which I suppose, is why I don't search out Korean food in Paris.

gdg, in the US we refer to milk without the cream as "skim milk," and milk with the cream in it as "whole milk." Most dairies in the US now sell milk with various percentages of cream. There is skim milk with no cream, 1% milk with 1% cream, 2% milk and whole milk which I believe generally contains about 4% cream.

The cream is removed from the milk and sold at a much higher price, but the resultant skim milk is no cheaper to buy. Skim milk is no less expensive, just inferior.

[Ptipois]

Yes, context. They serve La Vache in the First Class Lounge of Asiana Airlines in Seoul. They sincerely offered it me as French Cheese.

I actually like Vache Qui Rit. And it's very nice in a Vietnamese roadside sandwich. (Context!)
To horrify the audience a little further: I love Apéricubes too, they're my favorite kind of French decadent gastronomy. The tomato Apéricube is tops.

Edited by Ptipois, 25 January 2005 - 10:37 AM.

[chefzadi]

Yes, context. They serve La Vache in the First Class Lounge of Asiana Airlines in Seoul. They sincerely offered it me as French Cheese.

I actually like Vache Qui Rit. And it's very nice in a Vietnamese roadside sandwich. (Context!)
To horrify the audience a little further: I love Apéricubes too, they're my favorite kind of French decadent gastronomy. The tomato Apéricube is tops.

In my mind all of your past and future posts will be forever tainted by your "confession."

[therese]

Skim milk is no less expensive, just inferior. 

Entirely a matter of preference. I despise non-skim milk, having grown up drinking skim milk from my grandmother's cows (Guernseys and Jerseys). Cream was skimmed and used separately or to make butter (cultured, with real buttermilk left behind).

I like neither the mouth feel nor the taste of whole milk (it seems somehow rancid), and homogenized milk is a perversion.

Just my opinion, of course...

[chefzadi]

Yes, context. They serve La Vache in the First Class Lounge of Asiana Airlines in Seoul. They sincerely offered it me as French Cheese.

Which I suppose, is why I don't search out Korean food in Paris.

gdg, in the US we refer to milk without the cream as "skim milk," and milk with the cream in it as "whole milk." Most dairies in the US now sell milk with various percentages of cream. There is skim milk with no cream, 1% milk with 1% cream, 2% milk and whole milk which I believe generally contains about 4% cream.

The cream is removed from the milk and sold at a much higher price, but the resultant skim milk is no cheaper to buy. Skim milk is no less expensive, just inferior.

Since you bring it up. I actually did seek out Korean food in Paris. I found a restaurant that was clearly making few attempts at authenticity. I had to try it! My wife protested the entire way to the restaurant. She didn't understand the point. But I wanted to see how the dishes would be altered to suit French tastes.

My report:

The food wasn't that bad. It was tasty enough, the ingredients were pretty fresh. But all the flavors were toned down. The fire and sourness that Korean dishes can have were noticeably absent. They also had a wine list and most of the other diners were drinking wine with their grilled meat, even with kimchi. I would recommend the restaurant to French people who are curious about Korean food or already like Korean food, but have a hard time forgoing wine with their meals. Yes context, there are quite a few French who must have wine with their meals. And it's nearly impossible to enjoy authentic Korean food with wine.

On the other side of the pond:

I was an Executive Chef at a French restaurant in Korea. Instead of trying to alter French foods to a local palate that I didn't understand I strived for authenticity as much as possible. So I purposely and quite successfully culivated a largel French and European clientele. The Koreans complained that the food was "flat" tasting and cloying, they needed a palate cleanser in between bites, perhaps kimchi would be nice, they suggested. I told them that Koreans get acidity and sourness from their pickled dishes to round out a meal. And yes, I've heard many Koreans refer to the "palate" cleansing qualities of pickled dishes in between bites of richer foods. But in French dining sourness and acidity come from wine., it's what refreshes the palate.


Context and habits.

[Ptipois]

In my mind all of your past and future posts will be forever tainted by your "confession."
 

That's okay with me. That was not a confession. I tend to react this way whenever I'm confronted to culinary "a-prioris". As was said before, it's all context. In terms of foods and ingredients, I think there's nothing sacred or vile per se. And I've heard that, somewhere near the Pays basque, some chef does some pretty interesting things with Vache Qui Rit.

By the way, Vache Qui Rit à la crème is even nicer...

Edited by Ptipois, 25 January 2005 - 11:50 AM.

[gdg]

Yes, context. They serve La Vache in the First Class Lounge of Asiana Airlines in Seoul. They sincerely offered it me as French Cheese.

Which I suppose, is why I don't search out Korean food in Paris.

gdg, in the US we refer to milk without the cream as "skim milk," and milk with the cream in it as "whole milk." Most dairies in the US now sell milk with various percentages of cream. There is skim milk with no cream, 1% milk with 1% cream, 2% milk and whole milk which I believe generally contains about 4% cream.

The cream is removed from the milk and sold at a much higher price, but the resultant skim milk is no cheaper to buy. Skim milk is no less expensive, just inferior.

thank you Bux ... in france the whole milk got the same name "lait entier" ... same thing for the price, i think ... as for "vache qui rit" i use to love it, i can't remember but i use to do something with, i mean cook something, pasta ? butter melt vache qui rit qnd ... spaghetti ? that's it i'm afraid .................... kids love it france, or use to ... thanks again

[bleudauvergne]

Well, I finally got around to picking up some of this cancoillotte product. The small Monoprix store where I got it had two kinds, one President brand, and the other which looked like the producer packages and sells it himself, from a fromagerie called Poitrey, the same product as Therese got in Atlanta. Neither of the packages claim that this is actual cheese, Poitrey describing it as a "Specialité fromagère de Franche Comté" The ingredients listed on the package were basically the same except for the butter content:

Curdled skimmed milk, butter (8% for President and 14% for the Poitry brand), salt,
Disodium phosphate, Trisodium phosphate, and polyphosphates.

However looking at the website for Poitrey, I see that the product I picked up is their "super" version which contains more butter than the usual basic cancoillotte. They also list on the website that the curds contain 50% minimum milk curds and that some of the curds have been made with présure (they don't specify how much). They don't say if the présure comes from vegetable or animal origins. website here.

The President brand touts 6% total fat content, and the Poitry brand 11%. Both say it is a low fat treat.

Both were chilled in my fridge overnight, and this morning, I opened up the plastic tubs and peeled back the foil on top. They were exactly the same color, a sort of creme anglaise color. When I tipped the pots, the President brand ran faster than the Poitrey brand, logical, since it contains less fat. The consistency reminded me of a play compound my little brother once got a long time ago at a birthday party when we were kids. It came in a little plastic garbage pail and was called "slime". The appeal to children was that it had a runny, icky slippery feel to it, but it didn't stick to your hands. The Cancoillotte seemed like this, with a slightly gelatinous quality. Unlike "slime", it stuck to everything it touched.

I took a little bit in a spoon and tasted the President brand first. It tasted similar to a bland cheese whiz. The Poitrey brand tasted as if it actually had been through some kind of very slight fermentation process, while the President brand did not. They were both very artificial tasting to me. (it could be the context...)

I spread some of each brand on my breakfast toast. It did nothing to improve the toast. heated up on the surface of the toast, it melted to a thin runny consistency instantly. The extremely high salt content was more evident in the heated product, and the chemical flavor receded slightly but not completely. It smelled better than it tasted. I suppose this product might have some kind of appeal to someone trying to trick themselves into eating less fat in their diet, since it has about 1/10th of the amount of butterfat in it than real butter, but a buttery smell and color. If I had to choose between the President brand and the Poitrey I'd choose the Poitrey.

Both of the Cancoillotte packages say that this product is an absolute necessity to any cheese plate. Thinking of the cheeses I have on the plate at the moment, I think it would be a real shame for anyone to pick up this product thinking that it was a kind of French cheese. It really falls in the category of cheese whiz in my mind, it leaves a chemical taste in my mouth, a tingle on my tongue that doesn't go away right away.

I went to the website and looked at the metton, thinking it might be worth it to try to make it at home with just the cheese curds and forego the massive dose of sodium and stablizers. There has got to be some appeal to the original dish, if it is a specialty of the region... Oh well, I see that the cheese curds are also sold with the sodium di, tri, and polyphosphates. The next thing to do is to curdle some skim milk, since I have some presure in the fridge.

[bleudauvergne]

To horrify the audience a little further: I love Apéricubes too, they're my favorite kind of French decadent gastronomy. The tomato Apéricube is tops.

Alright, Ptpois, I'll try and fish out a tomato flavor one the next time I am forced to take apericubes again! But I won't buy them, it's one thing I won't do.