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Boeuf Bourguignon

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#61 Marlene

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 01:07 PM

FYI:  There are three recipes for boeuf bourguignon availabe from the Washington Post.  The recipes are from Bourdain, Ina Gartena and Keller.

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Bourdain's recipe is more like mine. Althoug I don't add carrots and I use shallots instead. I also use meat from the rib (you can get a great deal on it at a Korean Market. It's in the meat case, 4-5 pound whole piece.) I only add parsley, no bouqet garni. I don't add bacon either. I also add much more wine. And for those who care about authenticity, versions without bacon are authentic.

Ina- Please no canned broth. Clean, fresh water is SO much better than the tinny, salty taste that canned broth will inevitably give a dish.

Keller- No comment.

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I've decided I'll do Keller's this week, and Bourdain's next week. I want to do a taste comparision between complex and simple!
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#62 zeitoun

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 01:09 PM

It does.  The part that seems to be missing in Keller's recipe is to strain the reduction which of course makes sense.  Of course I could be just missing that.  Ok, beef is browning, wine is about to go on reduction!

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Keller is an "over strainer". I think in this recipe he recommends straining at every stage (what, at least 5 or 6 times). I've followed his recommendation and when you only have ONE chinois (that ends up being rinced and cleaned after each use obviously) and so much cheese cloth to spare, it is a real pain. The result is fantastic though.
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#63 Carlovski

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 01:11 PM

Beef and wine stew with Black Olives.Interesting recipe - Not Boeuf Bourguignon but an interesting variation on the theme.
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#64 chefzadi

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 01:23 PM

I just read Keller's version. It's actually not that complicated. He is basically applying some Cuisine Gastronomique cooking and plating techniques to a rustic dish. There are steps that a homecook could bypass to achieve pretty much the same results, if not the same look.
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#65 zeitoun

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:19 PM

I just read Keller's version. It's actually not that complicated. He is basically applying some Cuisine Gastronomique cooking and plating techniques to a rustic dish. There are steps that a homecook could bypass to achieve pretty much the same results, if not the same look.

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It is indeed not that complicated however, the beauty of this recipe lies in its pedagogical virtues. It teaches the homecook so much about certain aspects of "classic" cooking techniques. It involves at various steps infusing, reducing, marinating and braising techniques that can be applied in a myriad of other dishes. It not only does that but also shows how such techniques can impact the flavor, texture and complexity of each component of a particular dish.
It can certainly be shortenend but I would recommend anyone to try it, just because it is a great cooking "seminar" in itself for any homecook willing to learn.
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#66 stephenc

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:26 PM

What is this dish? It sounds like Coq au vin with beef instead of chicken.

#67 chefzadi

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:34 PM

What is this dish?  It sounds like Coq au vin with beef instead of chicken.

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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Best one I've heard all day. I thought the same thing when I first read the recipe.

Edited by chefzadi, 26 January 2005 - 02:42 PM.

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#68 Marlene

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:37 PM

I just read Keller's version. It's actually not that complicated. He is basically applying some Cuisine Gastronomique cooking and plating techniques to a rustic dish. There are steps that a homecook could bypass to achieve pretty much the same results, if not the same look.

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It is indeed not that complicated however, the beauty of this recipe lies in its pedagogical virtues. It teaches the homecook so much about certain aspects of "classic" cooking techniques. It involves at various steps infusing, reducing, marinating and braising techniques that can be applied in a myriad of other dishes. It not only does that but also shows how such techniques can impact the flavor, texture and complexity of each component of a particular dish.
It can certainly be shortenend but I would recommend anyone to try it, just because it is a great cooking "seminar" in itself for any homecook willing to learn.

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Well, it's complicated to me :biggrin: . Seriously, I am doing this for exactly as you suggest, to learn. I am at a point in my home cooking where I am getting comfortable tackling the unknown and the more difficult. I will do this step by step as Keller specifies.

It's in the oven braising now.
Marlene
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#69 chefzadi

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:46 PM

Marlene-

Take it one step or stage at a time. Also be prepared to wash a lot of pots and pans. And sieves. LOL!
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#70 Marlene

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:54 PM

Fortunately I have a lot of both! I have taken pictures as I go, but I'll wait until it's completely finished, then publish the step by step pictorial. One thing though, that red wine reduction smelled heavenly..
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#71 zeitoun

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 02:58 PM

One thing though, that red wine reduction smelled heavenly..

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Did you taste it? I'm telling you, you add butter to that and you have an amazing red wine sauce!!!!
"A chicken is just an egg's way of making another egg." Samuel Butler

#72 SobaAddict70

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:04 PM

What is this dish?  It sounds like Coq au vin with beef instead of chicken.

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Except that coq au vin (oh, oh, oh!!!!) is another universe all unto itself.

Show me a pot of coq au vin and I'll show you an eGulleteer with a bib and a plate. :blink: :wink:

hm, I think I'll start another thread on that one...

Soba

#73 Marlene

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:11 PM

One thing though, that red wine reduction smelled heavenly..

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Did you taste it? I'm telling you, you add butter to that and you have an amazing red wine sauce!!!!

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I did taste it. It never occured to me to add butter! :sad:
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#74 Marlene

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 04:06 PM

Here's my next question. Can one braise too long? It's 6:00 p.m. and the dish has been braising for about an hour and half. I checked the meat and it's not that tender yet. So probably another hour. The problem with that is I have to leave the house at 7:30 for about an hour. So I wouldn't have time to do the straining, defatting step before I leave. So I was thinking I could leave this in the oven at 200 until I get back. Is that going to be a problem?
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#75 snowangel

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 04:08 PM

Here's my next question.  Can one braise too long?  It's 6:00 p.m. and the dish has been braising for about an hour and half.  I checked the meat and it's not that tender yet.  So probably another hour.  The problem with that is I have to leave the house at 7:30 for about an hour.  So I wouldn't have time to do the straining, defatting step before I leave.  So I was thinking I could leave this in the oven at 200 until I get back. Is that going to be a problem?

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Not a problem, at least in my book. What cut of meat did you use?
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#76 Marlene

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 04:09 PM

boneless beef short ribs
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#77 Marlene

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 08:16 PM

That's what I did. I had a house showing while I was gone, and it made the house smell wonderful! I had to test a piece of the beef when I got home, and it was incredibly tender. I've now strained it three times and it's in the fridge where it will stay until Friday.

Should this be a thin sauce or should it be a little thick?
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#78 plunk

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 10:24 PM

That's what I did.  I had a house showing while I was gone, and it made the house smell wonderful!  I had to test a piece of the beef when I got home, and it was incredibly tender.  I've now strained it three times and it's in the fridge where it will stay until Friday.

Should this be a thin sauce or should it be a little thick?

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When the beef is done braising, there's probably still going to be a lot of liquid left. Even after straining and skimming, I had what looked more like beef soup than stew so I reduced the liquid down quite far to more of a sauce consistency. Either way though, you'll love it.

#79 SobaAddict70

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 10:52 PM

I was thinking that creamy polenta might be just the thing for this if you don't happen to have plain boiled potatoes.

*sigh*
*drool*
*sigh*

Soba

#80 EdS

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 11:08 PM

What is this dish?  It sounds like Coq au vin with beef instead of chicken.

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You should try the fish version! :laugh:

edited to add: maybe not so funny because I know somewhere out there someone might try braising a fish for three hours. I'm certain I've had this served to me in a few nameless restaurants.

Edited by esvoboda, 26 January 2005 - 11:14 PM.


#81 Rehovot

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:07 AM

I have taken pictures as I go, but I'll wait until it's completely finished, then publish the step by step pictorial. 

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Yay. I look forward to the pictorial/tutorial. I have a pot of the Bourdain recipe (sans demi-glace, boo hoo) simmering, at the moment. It's been burbling a bit for the last couple of hours, and now it tastes quite good.

But I'm really too lazy to strain any of it. :laugh:

#82 Adam Balic

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:18 AM

What is this dish?  It sounds like Coq au vin with beef instead of chicken.

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You should try the fish version! :laugh:

edited to add: maybe not so funny because I know somewhere out there someone might try braising a fish for three hours. I'm certain I've had this served to me in a few nameless restaurants.

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Not quite cooked for three hours, but the Freshwater fish stew from Burgundy is called "Pôchouse", there is even a "Brotherhood of the Pôchouse’s Knights", who will most likely be tracking you down now that you have dissed their stew. :wink:

#83 Afterburner

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 08:52 AM

So I made my wholly unorthodox and unauthentic Beef Burgundy last night, and it was fab. Not as good as the stuff we had at the wedding reception a couple weeks ago, but I wasn't expecting it to be.

Mistakes were made, as it happens. The recipe called for "chopped" onions and carrots. And my brain said "Chopped! Ah-hah! That's what the food processor is for!" So what I actually ended up with was "minced" onions and carrots.

Which wouldn't have been a problem until the step where I had to remove the carrots and the onions from the marinade...

So I strained the marinade into a seperate bowl, leaving me with a bowl of marinade and a bowl of purple meat covered with minced carrots and onions. Then I took out each individual piece of meat and swished it around the marinade to clean off all the carroty and oniony bits.

This took Some Time™, as you might imagine.

Anyhow, aside from that little snafu, it went wonderfully well. I was extremely pleased with the results.
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#84 zeitoun

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 09:00 AM

That's what I did.  I had a house showing while I was gone, and it made the house smell wonderful!  I had to test a piece of the beef when I got home, and it was incredibly tender.  I've now strained it three times and it's in the fridge where it will stay until Friday.

Should this be a thin sauce or should it be a little thick?

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When the beef is done braising, there's probably still going to be a lot of liquid left. Even after straining and skimming, I had what looked more like beef soup than stew so I reduced the liquid down quite far to more of a sauce consistency. Either way though, you'll love it.

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Marlene -
That is up to you really. You can certainly reduce your cooking liquid further if you want before serving. I personally do. Make sure you taste it as you go because by reducing obviously, you are also concentrating the flavors, you might not necessarily want a sauce that is too strong. Another way of giving it a sauce consistency is by adding butter to it at the very end and emulsifying it with an immersion blender (remove the meat first!!!). It will give it a richer texture but I personally don't like to do that for this dish. I like adding a touch of reduced balsamic vinegar to the final product just to give it a rounder flavor and deeper color.
"A chicken is just an egg's way of making another egg." Samuel Butler

#85 rascal

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:14 PM

Would a top round roast be acceptable to make BB? I'm picking up a multi-pack of roasts from Costco this evening and not sure what to do with the ones I'm not roasting tonight. Might give the BB a try if it would be alright. Might be a little too lean?
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#86 EdS

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 02:09 PM

What is this dish?  It sounds like Coq au vin with beef instead of chicken.

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You should try the fish version! :laugh:

edited to add: maybe not so funny because I know somewhere out there someone might try braising a fish for three hours. I'm certain I've had this served to me in a few nameless restaurants.

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Not quite cooked for three hours, but the Freshwater fish stew from Burgundy is called "Pôchouse", there is even a "Brotherhood of the Pôchouse’s Knights", who will most likely be tracking you down now that you have dissed their stew. :wink:

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Hmm. Larousse describes Pôchouse as a Burgundy fish stew made from a selection of pike, gudgeon, eel, perch, carp, and preferably the very rare burbot. It's cooked with white wine and thickened with kneaded butter. It sounds quite good.

Those brotherhoods seem like an excuse for otherwise grown men to dress in funny costumes and get drunk. Not that it's a bad thing. If I see any sinister Citroën 2CV's in the neighborhood with an eel stretched across the dashboard, I'll let you know. I've studied the Monty Python fish dance and can deal with this threat.

Edited by esvoboda, 27 January 2005 - 02:12 PM.


#87 LindaK

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:33 PM

And about the lardons - no biggie to use bacon but maybe you want to boil them for a bit and dry them off well before you start rendering any fat? That way you can avoid the smoky taste of the bacon permeating your Boeuf Bourguignon.

Yes, ellencho! I found myself in the coq au vin thread before this one, and posted the following:

A small trick I learned some years ago during a brief stint cooking in France was to blanch the lardons before proceeding with any recipe--coq au vin, salade frisée au lardons, etc.  It really does make a difference, especially with American bacon, which tends to be more heavily cured than its French counterpart in my experience.  You want it to provide a subtle note in the background, rather than have the other flavors overpowered by the maple/hickory/whatever cured flavor.

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(note: I'm still new to posting and this multiple quoting is a challenge. fingers crossed that it posts correctly...)

Also, to the discussion about citrus addition: orange peel is a typical ingredient in a provencial daube, a regional variation of a bourguignon.

Edited by LindaK, 27 January 2005 - 07:34 PM.


 


#88 Marlene

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:59 PM

That's what I did.  I had a house showing while I was gone, and it made the house smell wonderful!  I had to test a piece of the beef when I got home, and it was incredibly tender.  I've now strained it three times and it's in the fridge where it will stay until Friday.

Should this be a thin sauce or should it be a little thick?

View Post


When the beef is done braising, there's probably still going to be a lot of liquid left. Even after straining and skimming, I had what looked more like beef soup than stew so I reduced the liquid down quite far to more of a sauce consistency. Either way though, you'll love it.

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Marlene -
That is up to you really. You can certainly reduce your cooking liquid further if you want before serving. I personally do. Make sure you taste it as you go because by reducing obviously, you are also concentrating the flavors, you might not necessarily want a sauce that is too strong. Another way of giving it a sauce consistency is by adding butter to it at the very end and emulsifying it with an immersion blender (remove the meat first!!!). It will give it a richer texture but I personally don't like to do that for this dish. I like adding a touch of reduced balsamic vinegar to the final product just to give it a rounder flavor and deeper color.

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I think I will reduce it. I also like the sounds of finishing it with a bit of reduced balsamic vinegar.
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#89 Adam Balic

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 04:15 AM

What is this dish?  It sounds like Coq au vin with beef instead of chicken.

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You should try the fish version! :laugh:

edited to add: maybe not so funny because I know somewhere out there someone might try braising a fish for three hours. I'm certain I've had this served to me in a few nameless restaurants.

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Not quite cooked for three hours, but the Freshwater fish stew from Burgundy is called "Pôchouse", there is even a "Brotherhood of the Pôchouse’s Knights", who will most likely be tracking you down now that you have dissed their stew. :wink:

View Post




Hmm. Larousse describes Pôchouse as a Burgundy fish stew made from a selection of pike, gudgeon, eel, perch, carp, and preferably the very rare burbot. It's cooked with white wine and thickened with kneaded butter. It sounds quite good.

Those brotherhoods seem like an excuse for otherwise grown men to dress in funny costumes and get drunk. Not that it's a bad thing. If I see any sinister Citroën 2CV's in the neighborhood with an eel stretched across the dashboard, I'll let you know. I've studied the Monty Python fish dance and can deal with this threat.

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I think that the Burbot is locally restricted rather then rare, we had a discussion on the topic a while ago Burbot/Eelpout. As you can see if you are in the States you could form your very own chapter of the Brotherhood....

#90 Marlene

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 06:34 PM

Right, I'm ready to report. I have to confess, I'm a Keller school drop out. I made it about 3/4's of the way throught the process and then I just couldn't face it anymore. After a weekend from hell, a pinched nerve in my neck, juggling a conference call at six p.m. and one at 10:00 pm. and getting dinner and homework out of the way in the meantime, I just didn't have the strength. I really didn't.

i'm afraid I'll never achieve the godhood of Keller, but I knew that anyway. Ok, here goes.

One starts with a number of vegetables with a bottle of caberet sauvignon, reduced to the point where it's sort of like a glaze:
Posted Image

when it's reduced, it almost looks like there's nothing left of the wine, until you remove the vegetables.

Posted Image

The wine then gets strained into a bowl and set aside. Throw out the vegetables and herbs from the wine reduction. In the meantime, brown the beef in some oil, and prepare new vegetables and herbs, and cover them with a piece of cheesecloth.
Posted Image

The beef goes on top of the cheesecloth and then gets covered with about 4 cups of beef stock. The whole thing goes in the oven to braise for a couple of hours. I actually braised mine for almost 4 hours because I found the meat wasn't tender enough at two hours and I had to go out.
Posted Image

Once you take the braise out of the oven, remove the meat first, then the cheesecloth, then the vegetables.

Now the straining fun begins. I strained the liquid twice using a fine mesh colander and a layer of cheesecloth. Then into a pot, bring the stock to a boil and skim off any fat. Strain it yet again into a bowl, and then strain once more over the beef that is now in an oven proof pot.

Posted Image

Once it's cool, you can put the lid on and fall into bed. (I think I'm figuring out how I pinched the nerve in my neck)

I left it in the fridge for three days. Today, I was supposed to heat it enough to liquify the stock, remove the meat, strain the liquid again and heat the beef and stock in the oven. In the meantime I was supposed to cook the potatoes and carrots separately with a bunch of herbs then let them cool and toss them into the beef and stock to heat. Somewhere in there, I think I was supposed to do something with pearl onions. Oh, and in my spare time, make the lardons.


I thought about doing all that for oh, maybe 5 seconds. Instead, I scrubbed my little red potatoes and washed my baby carrots. Removed the beef from the stock, threw in the potatoes and carrots and simmered it until said potatoes and carrots were tender. I put the beef back in, and simmered a bit more until the beef heated up. In the meantime I made lardons.
Posted Image

In a lousy attempt at plating, I arrived at this with a wonderfully fresh loaf of crusty bread that had just emerged from the bakery oven as we got there.

Posted Image

It was not Keller's full recipe, but it was damn good. I apologize Mr. Keller, you're a better man than I'll ever be. I tried, I really did. I just could not face another round of straining if my life depended on it.

Next time I'll try bourdain's recipe. It's gotta be easier.
Marlene
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Mostly, I want people to be as happy eating my food as I am cooking it.





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