122 replies to this topic

[zeitoun]

clarifying lardoons.  I got a slab of bacon and will cut it up.  But Keller's recipe seems to suggest that they are cooked at the end and served with the bourgnion rather than used in the making of the dish.  Correct?

Correct!!

Looking forward to seeing it on this thread..

Enjoy!!!

[Afterburner]

We had boeuf bourguignonne (under it's more pedestrian name of "Beef Burgundy") last week at a friend's wedding. It tasted awesome. So awesome, in fact, that I'm going to attempt to make it myself this week.

The recipe we'll be using will be the one in the new 1997 edition of The Joy of Cooking. The burgundy we'll be using is some cheap stuff, though. We bought a gallon of it to make some wine slush type things for a friend's party, and we have a lot left over.

And it's mixed with lemonade and orange juice.

Should be interesting...

[chefzadi]

clarifying lardoons.  I got a slab of bacon and will cut it up.  But Keller's recipe seems to suggest that they are cooked at the end and served with the bourgnion rather than used in the making of the dish.  Correct?

Correct!!

Looking forward to seeing it on this thread..

Enjoy!!!

I don't know about Keller's recipe. But traditionally the rendered fat from the lardoons is used to brown the meat. The crispy lardoon is reserved to be used as a garnish for the finished dish.

[Marlene]

Well that's what I thought. But that's not what his book says, although as I say, the recipe is fairly complicated. I've read it 5 times already. But maybe I'll do that anyway. Just because it sounds good to brown the meat in the rendered fat.

This is one of the more complicated recipes I've attempted, but I'm looking forward to the challenge.

[chefzadi]

No doubt, Keller's version will be delicious. I'm from the part of France where the Rhone and Burgundy meet. It's such a simple, delicious dish with just a few ingredients. I'm beginning to wonder how and why it can be made so complicated. I think that I'll take a look at the recipe.

[CityCook]

The burgundy we'll be using is some cheap stuff, though. We bought a gallon of it to make some wine slush type things for a friend's party, and we have a lot left over.
And it's mixed with lemonade and orange juice.

I don't mean to offend you, AfterBurner, but this scares the hell out of me. I truly hope your dish turns out to be palatable, but please don't call it boeuf bourguignon.

[Marlene]

No doubt, Keller's version will be delicious. I'm from the part of France where the Rhone and Burgundy meet. It's such a simple, delicious dish with just a few ingredients. I'm beginning to wonder how and why it can be made so complicated. I think that I'll take a look at the recipe.

Please do. And feel free to stop me before I do something rash!

[chefzadi]

The burgundy we'll be using is some cheap stuff, though. We bought a gallon of it to make some wine slush type things for a friend's party, and we have a lot left over.
And it's mixed with lemonade and orange juice.

I don't mean to offend you, AfterBurner, but this scares the hell out of me. I truly hope your dish turns out to be palatable, but please don't call it boeuf bourguignon.

Even in France it's common for more ordinary Bistro's to use cheap wine. It doesn't happen at the fine dining level. But it is done at the "mom and pop" type places. The taste is still okay. I wouldn't recommend using totally off wine. But I do encourage home cooks to replicate dishes within their budgets or with what they have at hand.

[CityCook]

well, regardless of one's opinion of the merit of jug wine, wine mixed with citrus juice and reduced with beef and vegetable essences sounds to me like an invitation to the barfs. please don't barf, Afterburner.

[Afterburner]

I don't mean to offend you, AfterBurner, but this scares the hell out of me.

Really? Why?

Even if it turns out to taste nothing like traditional beef burgundy (and, really, I don't expect it to), it will:

A) Still probably taste pretty good.
B) Will taste a lot better (and probably be healthier for me) than the alternative, which would be Hot Pockets or some other microwave dish.
C) Let me make a dent in the copious amount of frozen cheap burgundy/lemonade/orange juice mixture currently cluttering up my deep freeze.

My first attempt at making stock used the carcass of a smoked chicken breast, three packets of different types of old lunchmeat that were in danger of going "off," some roasted beef marrow bones, some roasted baby carrots, and some roasted dried fruit (prunes, dates, cherries, figs, and a pineapple ring) that my wife's grandmother had sent her for Christmas. And it turned out fantastic.

BEHOLD MY CAVALIER DISREGARD OF TRADITION!

[zeitoun]

Well that's what I thought.  But that's not what his book says, although as I say, the recipe is fairly complicated.  I've read it 5 times already.  But maybe I'll do that anyway.  Just because it sounds good to brown the meat in the rendered fat.

This is one of the more complicated recipes I've attempted, but I'm looking forward to the challenge.

If you only have one batch of lardons at hand that might become difficult. The meat is seared at the initial stage of the recipe before it is cooked in the wine. The lardons on the other hand are used as a garnish and added just before the dish is served. Between both steps, there is a whole night going by during which the meat is marinated in its own cooking liquid.
On day one, you can certainly cook your lardons, set them aside and then cook the meat in the lardon fat. Then you can just add the lardons to the meat while it is braising and leave in the marinade overnight. By doing this though you are defeating the very premise of Keller's recipe which is to degrease and "refine" as much as possible the cooking liquid.
If you want to use Keller's recipe, i'd say go all the way on your first attempt and follow the recipe. You can always bring your own variations on subsequent attempts.

[CityCook]

Afterburner, your post made me smile. I love the idea of throwing caution to the wind, and bravo for not feeling stuck by the rigidity of classic cuisine. However, I believe that one should respect all of the attention and work that previous (French) generations have put into developing and refining the recipes and techniques that make up the lexicon of classic cuisine on which all serious cooking in the western world is based. So I like it when people mess around, but not when they try to call their creations by classical names. The citrus in your wine scares me, but I look forward to hearing how it turns out and truly hope you'll like it. It seems to me that all that tangy booze would be better made into a kind of sangria, by cooking some of it down with some apples, cloves, cinnamon sticks, honey and maybe a little cardamom as a flavor base, then adding it back into the chilly citrus-wine.

[phifly04]

I got this recipe from a childhood friend who,s mother was from the village of Nuit,s St. George and was a member of the Philadelphia Orchestra
Boeuf Bouguigonne
4 oz. slab bacon
2 1/2 lb. beef chuck,cut into 2 inch cubes
flour
clarified butter
2 cup,s mirepoix,large dice
2 tsp. minced garlic
3 tbl. brandy
2 cups red burgundy wine
4 cups beef stock
small bouquet garni
8 lg. button mushrooms
8 boiling onions,peeled and Xed
12 tourneed carrots(approximate in size to other veggies)
Method------------------------------------------------------------
1. remove rind from bacon and cut into lardons(1/2X1/2 X1)Saute bacon until crisp and fat is rendered,reserve lardons,strain fat through cheese cloth
2.Add bacon fat to a soup pot and Dredge meat in flour,brown well,remove meat
3.add mirepoix to fat,saute till lightly browned add garlic and 5 tbl. flour,saute to make a blond roux
4.re-add meat,flambe brandy and add to meat
5.add wine ,stock and bouquet,simmer for approx. 1 hour
6.saute quartered mushroom in clarified butter till golden,reserve
7. remove bouquet,strain sauce,adjust thickness and season with salt and black pepper
8.return meat and carrots and onions,simmer 15 minutes,add mushrooms and lardons,simmer 5 minutes and serve
note*i serve mine over buttered egg noodles and finish with parsley

Dave s

[Afterburner]

Afterburner, your post made me smile. I love the idea of throwing caution to the wind, and bravo for not feeling stuck by the rigidity of classic cuisine. However, I believe that one should respect all of the attention and work that previous (French) generations have put into developing and refining the recipes and techniques that make up the lexicon of classic cuisine on which all serious cooking in the western world is based. So I like it when people mess around, but not when they try to call their creations by classical names.

Well, honestly, to the extent that I bother calling it anything when I plate it up and serve it to my wife, I'll almost certainly refer to it simply as "Dinner. Here ya go."

But, for the sake of our mutual edification and amusement, consider:

I am using the Boeuf Bourguignonne recipe as written in The Joy of Cooking (the new, updated 1997 edition). In every aspect of the recipe save one, I will be faithfully following the recipe as written. The technique will be the same as described in TJoC. The ingredients, save one, will be the same as described in the TJoC. In fact, the only part of this recipe that will be varied at all will be the wine -- I will be using, as mentioned, the burgundy/orange juice/lemonade mixture (and that only because my wife made buckets of the stuff and I need to get rid of it somehow, so I can make room in the freezer for more stock).

What else should I call it, if not Beef Burgundy?

[CityCook]

I'd call it citrus beef stew, or something like that, but you're being dishonest if you call it beef burgundy. However, it happens all the time, so you won't be alone in your liberal choice of name. Or, hell, make some real bourguignon, and than make that sangria stuff. By the time you finish drinking your sangria, you'll have no problem calling the stew Boeuf Bourguignon, citrus beef stew, beefy Tang goulash, warm beef love juice, or, simply, beefalupagus suprise. Do you see what I'm saying about names? On the one hand, they don't matter, and on the other, they do matter very much.

[Marlene]

Well that's what I thought.  But that's not what his book says, although as I say, the recipe is fairly complicated.  I've read it 5 times already.  But maybe I'll do that anyway.  Just because it sounds good to brown the meat in the rendered fat.

This is one of the more complicated recipes I've attempted, but I'm looking forward to the challenge.

If you only have one batch of lardons at hand that might become difficult. The meat is seared at the initial stage of the recipe before it is cooked in the wine. The lardons on the other hand are used as a garnish and added just before the dish is served. Between both steps, there is a whole night going by during which the meat is marinated in its own cooking liquid.
On day one, you can certainly cook your lardons, set them aside and then cook the meat in the lardon fat. Then you can just add the lardons to the meat while it is braising and leave in the marinade overnight. By doing this though you are defeating the very premise of Keller's recipe which is to degrease and "refine" as much as possible the cooking liquid.
If you want to use Keller's recipe, i'd say go all the way on your first attempt and follow the recipe. You can always bring your own variations on subsequent attempts.

While I can always get more lardons, I suppose you're right. I should follow the recipe fully the first time around.

[ellencho]

Regarding the cooking wine: Pick something from the Burgundy region of France perhaps? And I believe in Cooking with Julia and Jacques they recommend using a Pinot Noir. I've used cheaply priced versions (~13 bucks) of both (since I'm not a wine drinker at all) and they both turned out fine.

And about the lardons - no biggie to use bacon but maybe you want to boil them for a bit and dry them off well before you start rendering any fat? That way you can avoid the smoky taste of the bacon permeating your Boeuf Bourguignon.

I'm a big fan of Julia and Jacques recipe, and my favorite thing about their recipe is that you can stagger the steps and do what parts you wish to do at your convenience. If anyone wants the recipe go ahead and leave me a PM and I'll be happy to give it to you.

[Afterburner]

I'd call it citrus beef stew, or something like that, but you're being dishonest if you call it beef burgundy.

"Dishonest?" That's an interesting choice of value judgements.

"Unorthodox?" Sure. "Cavalier?" You betcha.

But "dishonest?" That implies a level of willful deception which, given the circumstances (me cooking dinner for me and my wife), seems a little overwrought.

[chefzadi]

I'd call it citrus beef stew, or something like that, but you're being dishonest if you call it beef burgundy.

"Dishonest?" That's an interesting choice of value judgements.

"Unorthodox?" Sure. "Cavalier?" You betcha.

But "dishonest?" That implies a level of willful deception which, given the circumstances (me cooking dinner for me and my wife), seems a little overwrought.

First and foremost, enjoy eating and cooking. As I mentioned before even in France at a certain level of restaurants two buck chuck wines are used. The whole point of the dish is that it is a simple and homey. Too much "talk" about eating and cooking sometimes takes all the fun out of it.

Cook it the way you want at home and have a great time with your wife.

[s'kat]

I've only ever made one beef burgundy recipe, and that is Julia's, from Mastering the Art of French Cooking. It's really perfect as is, and is the one thing that I can't manage to keep leftovers long in the freezer (a very overcrowded and frightening place, in my house).

I've used good burgundy, and cheap red table wine: it's been good both ways.

Oh, and I would like to put my vote in for "warm beef love juice". There's just a certain ring about it...

[pam claughton]

I asked about wine in making this on an earlier thread, and a few people suggested Gallo Hearty Burgundy. I will try that next time.

I've tried the Les Halles version, haven't tried TKeller's yet, but my favorite version, which I preferred over Les Halles, is from the New Basics Cookbook,
It's a rich hearty version, with loads of wine.

It calls for 3 cups red wine, 3 lbs cubed chuck, and 3 cups beef broth, tomato paste, carrots, onions, mushrooms, bacon lardons, and rosemary.

Easy, fast, and really flavorful.

Pam

[Ben Hong]

Chefzadi, you're a man after my own heart.

There's too much verbiage over a simple dish like beef stew, ok, boeuf bourgignon then. In another thread I used the word pragmatism in trying to get posters to free themselves from the strict constraints of "classical" (perceived or otherwise) recipes, insisting on the right brand of cooking wine, the exact brand of sauce, the precise ratio of ingredients, etc. ad infinitum. Except for my restaurant days, I can never replicate a dish to taste precisely, exactly each and every time. But then, our taste buds, among other variables, don't react exactly the same way each and every hour of any day. I am of the belief that you make do with what is at hand and if you don't have the goods, then improvise. And, if you do improvise, I will not be calling your efforts dishonest.

Edited by Ben Hong, 26 January 2005 - 09:11 AM.

[Toliver]

I haven't made this recipe but a friend has and she said it was incredible:
From FoodNetwork's "Tyler's Ultimate":
"Tyler Florence's Boeuf Bourguignon"

[Marlene]

I'm just starting my prep work for the Keller recipe. Somebody with the book please clarify something for me. In the ingredient list, Keller lists a bunch of stuff for the red wine reduction. Do I put the onions,et al in while I'm reducing the wine? Further into his instructions, he more or less says to add the onions and leeks etc to the wine reduction. I am so confused. And I've just started!

[Marlene]

I'm a little unclear as to why I would put all that stuff into a straight reduction and then add more of it afterwards?

[mnebergall]

FYI: There are three recipes for boeuf bourguignon availabe from the Washington Post. The recipes are from Bourdain, Ina Gartena and Keller.

Clickamundo

[chefzadi]

FYI:  There are three recipes for boeuf bourguignon availabe from the Washington Post.  The recipes are from Bourdain, Ina Gartena and Keller.

Clickamundo

Bourdain's recipe is more like mine. Althoug I don't add carrots and I use shallots instead. I also use meat from the rib (you can get a great deal on it at a Korean Market. It's in the meat case, 4-5 pound whole piece.) I only add parsley, no bouqet garni. I don't add bacon either. I also add much more wine. And for those who care about authenticity, versions without bacon are authentic.

Ina- Please no canned broth. Clean, fresh water is SO much better than the tinny, salty taste that canned broth will inevitably give a dish.

Keller- No comment.

[zeitoun]

I'm a little unclear as to why I would put all that stuff into a straight reduction and then add more of it afterwards?

I do not have the book with me but from what i can remember:
During the wine reduction process, there is a number of vegetables that you are going to include with it before the wine comes to a boil. You are basically cooking down or "infusing" the wine with a bunch of aromatics (i think leek, carrot, onions, shallots, mushrooms and bouquert garni if i remember correctly). In your pot, it should look as if you had an equal ration of veggies to wine (so your veggies should not "swim" in the wine). Reduce the wine by almost 1/4 at medium heat (not too quickly), let the wine slowly cook down, thicken a little and become kind of "syrupy". When you reach that stage, throw the whole damn thing in a chinois and strain it by pressing as much liquid out of the vegetables (taste it, it is yummy on its own!! now you have a great base for a red wine sauce!). You now have your wine base. At a secondary stage, you will mix that wine base with your stock and a NEW batch of aromatics (i think just a mirepoix). This in essence, adds a second layer of flavors to your cooking liquid.
I hope this answers your question.

[Marlene]

It does. The part that seems to be missing in Keller's recipe is to strain the reduction which of course makes sense. Of course I could be just missing that. Ok, beef is browning, wine is about to go on reduction!

[Carlovski]

Re the Citrusy discussion, many recipes call for orange peel to be added to beef/wine stews (And that's what it is, Stew. French stew with wine in it, don't feel we need to be too precious about it)
I use what my Butcher refers to as Rib trim, just the right amount of fat, good flavour and pretty cheap.
I also tend to use a fairly hefty Spanish Rioja. And some thyme if I have any.
Might not be authentic , but it's tasty and warms me up on a winters day.