12 replies to this topic

[Jinmyo]

In a review of Empire (found here: clickety), cabrales was served seven-spiced salmon wrapped in betel leaves.

I asked if the betel, although cooked, stained the mouth to which she replied it had not and asked about betel.

I said:
"But I think there are two kinds of betel plants, very similiar. One is chewed as a stimulant, often with the nut. The other is used to wrap spiced ground meats. I remember it also as staining but I could be wrong."

As part of a further exchange I said:
"Betel leaves are common in Southeast Asian cuisines, including Vietnamese. I don't think they are used as much in Indian cooking, though chewing betel is."

But I don't really know. Any information would be of interest.

[Suvir Saran]

I have heard of some people using betel leaves in some southern states.  I have no examples or proof so I hesitate to say more.

As for betel leaves, those I have seen in India and also those I saw in Singapore this last trip there seem to leave no color at all.  

Stuffed betel leaf chewers have color stains in their clothing sometimes and stained teeth most often not because of the betel leaf but because of the Katha rubbed on the leaf.

I wish I knew what Katha would be called in English.  Maybe someone at the site will help you.

Betel leaves are considered as appetite stimulants and when stuffed with spices, betel nuts and sometimes even rose leaf jelly (gulukand) become digestives.

The food section in the NY Times had done a story not too long ago on Paan.  The betel leaf preparation with lime paste, katha and the above mentioned ingredients.

[Jinmyo]

Hm. I just keep turning up Katha Upanishad on Google. And "katha" in general as recitation or chanting.

[Suvir Saran]

Jinmyo,

My mother told me that Katta is called Catechu (sp?) in English.  It is derived from the resin of the scarcely found Kher(sp?) tree or now days from another tree the Gambier (sp?).  Kattha is the purifef Catechin (sp?) from either the Gambier or the Kher trees.  It has many medicinal uses and also used as a dye.  It is one of the essential ingredients of paan and that particular ingredient that gives it the brownish color.

Since I am relying on a phone conversation and none of the words are spell checked, I am not sure what the correct spellings are.  I am hoping I have written them correctly.  

She also pointed out how there has been much furor in India about several packaged blends of mouth fresheners that are now considered to be carcinogenic.  And Kattha is one of the ingredients.  She did point out that there is no proof however about Katta being carcinogenic.  On the contrary she told me it has several medicinal purposed at least from the hollistic point of view.

[Jinmyo]

Ah, it is "catechu". This is the betel nut. So the nut is used with the leaves in paan.

[Suvir Saran]

It is not the betel nut, catechin is a purified extract from the pith of the Kher or the Gambier tree.  And yes betel nuts are added into the melange of ingredients that are stuffed into Paans (betel leaves).

The color you talk about comes not from the nut but from this extract of catechu.

[Jinmyo]

All right. So catechin is extracted from catechu (betel nuts). And it is catechin that causes the colouring. I think I've gotten it.

[Suvir Saran]

Jinmyo you may be right but I am told that the trees that I mention are somewhat different from the betel nut trees.  Kher and Gambier are the trees from whose pith catechin is extracted and refined.

The betel nut palm is another tree.  But I could well be wrong.  I wish I knew an expert who could help clarify this.  Maybe we should check under the trees and see if they are different from each other.  I will do a google search now.

[Suvir Saran]

So here we have it Jinmyo... you are right in that catechu is the botanical name of Betel Nut tree, also called Areca Nut Palm.  I saw  these at a spice plantation in Goa this trip to India.  The fuit is called betel nut and is used in paans.  I am giving link below for information on the tree.

Areca Nut Palm/ Betel Nut

And Kattha that is used as a paste in the making of Paans is the extract from the Kher or mostly the Gambier tree.  The purified Catechin is called Kattha.  The link below is to the Gambier tree.

Gambier Tree: Source of Kattha

Thanks for initiating this.  Since I do not eat Paan and am quite against their consumption, I would not have otherwise tried to understand what Kattha was.  Now I know more and you are responsible for having educated me.

[Jinmyo]

You're very welcome. And thank you.

I also am not favourable towards paan.

It is always interesting to learn anything, especially when it leads through avenues both known and unknown.

[Suvir Saran]

Paan mixed with tobacco and the other ingredients has known to have been the source for cancer of the mouth in some people.  In fact a friend of the family, wife of a doctor who chewed a lot of the paan mixes (these are not paans just a blend of ingredients that is created to impart the taste of paan) is now suffering from mouth cancer.  Her face is hollow and all bones.  The operations have made her go from being one of the most beautiful women I ever knew to being a walking nightmare.  She is only in her late 40s.  It is sad watching her.  She felt she was safe chewing the non tobacco mix and over indulged in them.  Look what happened.

But then I know of a person very close to me who has never smoked, chewed tobacco, drunk any alcohol or eaten any meats or fish and he has been diagnosed with a fatty liver.  Shocking for he never did anything that would lead to those symptoms.  So one never knows how life pans out for anybody.  It has mysterious ways.  

My grandmother always says moderation and good luck are what life is all about.  I tend to now believe her more than I did when I was younger.

[GlorifiedRice]

I am making Vietnamese Thịt Bò Nướng Lá Lốt (Vietnamese Grilled Beef Wrapped in Betel Leaves) this afternoon, I shall let you know

[GlorifiedRice]

So I saw this recipe on my cyber travels for beef stuffed BETEL LEAVES

http://theculinarych...n-betel-leaves/

I was intrigued cause BETEL LEAVES are a intoxicant in many South Asian countries when chewed with Areca nuts, lime and other flavorings. The aforementioned mixture is known as PAAN...

Paan is used EVERYWHERE. Its a legal drug, mouth freshener, when passed around its a deal sealer and wedding sealer...

Literally NOTHING gets done in some South Asian countries without the tin of Paan being passed around.

So the other day I was at the Indian Supermarket and noticed that they sell PAAN ingredients, FRESH BETEL LEAVES! I bought 2, to taste.

I got home and tore a little edge off and stuck it in my mouth and chewed it. OMG such a pop of greeny peppery tongue tingling medicinal flavor! I spit it out to consider if I liked it or not,
About 2 minutes later I swear I felt like NEEDED to chew some more, so I did, with some Nerds candy, and that time it tasted like a strawberry cigar.

I definitely liked it.

So Thanksgiving came and went and then I went back to buy 6 more leaves and make the
Thịt Bò Nướng Lá Lốt...

Here are my rolls with the rice paper, pickled carrot and cucumber and sweet-sour-salty dipping sauce

http://i.imgur.com/L53Nv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/x4SbR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IpwkJ.jpg

I ate 3, they were really good, The cooking mellowed the leaves dramatically and the aftertaste is of tobacco, which will take a bit of getting used to, but they were yummy