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Chocolates with that showroom finish, 2004 - 2011

Confections Chocolate

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#571 teonzo

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 02:38 PM

Valrhona have just published a book which I have not seen yet but could be worth a look Amazon link


This is the English version of "Encyclopédie du chocolat", which was originally published about 1 year ago in France. I have it (the French version) and it does not cover what Punk Patissier is looking for. It's a really good book, but it must be considered for what it was intended for: giving the bases on a huge spectrum of chocolate utilizations (pralines, cakes, ice-creams, cookies and so on). A professional already knows almost everything written in the book, there are "only" the basics. It's a great book for the amateurs, or for people starting to be a professional, but there is almost nothing advanced.



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#572 dhardy123

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 11:56 PM

Ewald Notter's book "Art of the Chocolatier" is probably the best book for design techniques. I also have the new book "Couture Chocolate" from William Curley that has some design techniques. And of course JP Wybauw's book "Chocolate Decorations" talks about alot of different techniques for coloring and shaping chocolates.

#573 lebowits

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 07:09 AM





The bad: I made these 2 weeks ago, and today the cherry chambord above were about half imploded in the tops, similar to some previous imploding I had on another flavor



Hazelnut, collapsed.

The first time this happened with the hazelnut, I thought the shells were just too thin. Now that it has happened again, and also with another flavor, I clearly need to change how I make them.

The ganaches this has happened with are softer cream ganaches. I am thinking that the centers are drying and contracting and pulling on the shell until it goes concave.

Should I agitate my ganache once cool to induce crystallization? Should I not use cream ganache, only butter? Or simply change the formulas?


I've also had the "implosion" with that exact same mold. It doesn't happen immediately, but after a couple of weeks. It is my belief that this particular mold casts very thin shells on the sides and as the center dries out, sucks in the sides a bit. If you cast the shells twice, you should get a thicker wall which will eliminate this problem.


Interesting. It does look like the sides with the white chocolate stripe did not implode, so I guess the extra layer did add strength there. I haven't been using my smaller molds lately - been making solid bars instead - but will get back to it soon. I spent a few hours yesterday with a local chocolatier who stressed tempering the ganache, although they do only slabbed & enrobed ganache, not filled pieces. She did some on the marble slab and some in the robot coupe with the liquid at only 145F so the chocolate wouldn't overheat. There are a lot of things in cooking that you can fake your way through, but not chocolate :hmmm:


It could also be the relative material strength of dark chocolate vs white chocolate. My pieces which implode are white chocolate.
Steve Lebowitz
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Steven Howard Confections

Slicing a warm slab of bacon is a lot like giving a ferret a shave. No matter how careful you are, somebody's going to get hurt - Alton Brown, "Good Eats"

#574 punk patissier

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 05:15 AM

Thanks guys. I have w.curleys book and I visit him from time to time. He's a traditionalist and disengage like to get to techical with his work . Il try the books recomended by you all and see what I can find. Many thanks and all the best for your future experiments. Stewart

#575 punk patissier

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 06:03 AM

What I need is a book or resource that holds of on the recipes and focuses solely on the methods and techniques. Rodent have to be a massive encyclopedia, just a good reliable reference for when I'm experimenting and trying new things.

#576 YetiChocolates

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 07:57 AM

What I need is a book or resource that holds of on the recipes and focuses solely on the methods and techniques. Rodent have to be a massive encyclopedia, just a good reliable reference for when I'm experimenting and trying new things.


Well when you find that book, let me know, because to my knowledge, the only one that might be close is "Chocolate Decorations" by JP Wybauw and it's $850+ (in the states at least) if you want it translated into English. The German version Schokoladendekore is a lot cheaper (in the $80 range), but unless you know how to read German the pictures would probably be the only thing helpful.

I would say that if you are only interesting in methods and techniques then finding a class that focuses on just that would probably be your best bet.

#577 mostlylana

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 10:54 AM

So I've read through this thread probably 5 or 6 times in the past few years, and most of the comments have been really helpful, but I don't remember if this question was asked specifically so I'm gonna go out on a limb and ask it and hopefully won't get heckled by everyone for asking something that's already been asked :wink:

I recently got the half dome molds that Norman Love uses with most of his chocolates to create that beautiful cocoa butter shine. I picked up some colored cocoa butter from Chef Rubber, and decided to try the swirl technique that's talked about at the beginning of this thread. I did the white first, then the green, making sure to chill each one before doing the next and let the mold come back to room temp before adding the dark chocolate. The chocolate was in temper when I filled the molds, but I noticed right away that they weren't releasing like they should, when the other mold I filled was releasing just fine. I filled the chocolates, capped them, and they still weren't releasing. I put them in the fridge, and only a few came out unscathed, after probably 2-3 hours of fridge time most of them had big chunks of mostly green that stayed in the mold.

I guess the question I'm posing is whether it was because I didn't buff first (felt like I didn't need to since the molds were brand new), the cocoa butter was too thick, or did I get a little over zealous and poured the mold too quickly and it wasn't quite in temper i.e. should I let it sit a minute or two before I start shelling (as the other mold I shelled came out just fine, though it didn't have any colored cocoa butter, it was just a plain dark shell. Note I did hand temper the batch of chocolate, and I do remember giving the molds a quite rinse because the packaging materials it was shipped in was sticking to the molds. So maybe it was a buffing issue? Dang, what a silly mistake! :sad:

The other question is pertaining to a quote made earlier in the thread about molds being like cast iron pans and needing a good seasoning. Since these are brand new molds should I shell them with a chocolate before attempting a colored cocoa butter design to "season" them, or do you all feel that would be unnecessary?

I'm obviously not going to give up trying this, but I was hoping someone would see the error in my ways, as I'm a bit perplexed.


Yeti, I'm not an expert with cocoa butter but have done lots of research as I was having similar issues when using a spray gun. One thing that you are doing that most likely caused your outcome was chilling after each colour. Derek Tu Tan Phoo (I'm sure I've spelled that wrong!) from the Montreal Callebaut Academy told me that chilling such a thin layer of cocoa butter will cause it to turn from Beta 5 crystals (the good ones) to Beta 6 crystals. This will give you release problems. Just let set at room temp.

If your other mold without cocoa butter released just fine - it wasn't your temper. And not buffing the molds wouldn't lead to such drastic release problems. I'm sure that's not it. Another thing you want to make sure of is that your cocoa butter is in temper. People do this in different ways. Some heat slightly and shake. What you want to be careful of is heating too high and melting out all of the beta 5 crystals. I heat and pour out all of my cocoa butter colours when I get them and temper the whole thing by tabling. I then pour it onto parchment and let set. I break it all up and store the chards. When I want to use colour I melt out what I need and use some chards as seed. I do it this way for a couple of reasons... I don't use a lot of coloured cocoa butter so by keeping it solid it will last longer. Also, the cocoa butters I use are the Natural ones made with natural colours. They are sensitive to light, heat etc. so don't like being melted out all of the time. Also, by ensuring that I have the cocoa butter in temper, I haven't had any more release problems. Yay! I should note that when I temper, I do it at the very high end of the temper range as I know that I will be encouraging more crystal growth by spreading it around with my finger.

I have never had an issue with new molds. I wouldn't say 'seasoning' them is necessary but it wouldn't hurt.

Good luck :)

#578 Tri2Cook

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:49 PM

Well when you find that book, let me know, because to my knowledge, the only one that might be close is "Chocolate Decorations" by JP Wybauw and it's $850+ (in the states at least) if you want it translated into English.

$850? :blink: Are you sure about that? I'll have to check my books... I'm almost positive I have the English version in mint condition and, if I do, the first $100 can have it shipped to their door within Canada/U.S. :biggrin: I think I flipped through it once when I got it and haven't touched it since.
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#579 YetiChocolates

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:57 PM


Well when you find that book, let me know, because to my knowledge, the only one that might be close is "Chocolate Decorations" by JP Wybauw and it's $850+ (in the states at least) if you want it translated into English.

$850? :blink: Are you sure about that? I'll have to check my books... I'm almost positive I have the English version in mint condition and, if I do, the first $100 can have it shipped to their door within Canada/U.S. :biggrin: I think I flipped through it once when I got it and haven't touched it since.


Well here's the price on Amazon

And here's the price on Alibris

Maybe the book is currently out of print in English and therefore the reason for the ridiculous price?

I haven't searched other places, say Powell's books for instance, but those two sites are usually my "goto" for books.

If I had $100 to spare I would buy that off of you in a heartbeat. Maybe after the holiday chocolate rush is over, if the coffers are a bit fat and you still have the book I'll hit you up for it :biggrin:

Edited by YetiChocolates, 30 November 2011 - 03:07 PM.


#580 YetiChocolates

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 03:05 PM

Yeti, I'm not an expert with cocoa butter but have done lots of research as I was having similar issues when using a spray gun. One thing that you are doing that most likely caused your outcome was chilling after each colour. Derek Tu Tan Phoo (I'm sure I've spelled that wrong!) from the Montreal Callebaut Academy told me that chilling such a thin layer of cocoa butter will cause it to turn from Beta 5 crystals (the good ones) to Beta 6 crystals. This will give you release problems. Just let set at room temp.

If your other mold without cocoa butter released just fine - it wasn't your temper. And not buffing the molds wouldn't lead to such drastic release problems. I'm sure that's not it. Another thing you want to make sure of is that your cocoa butter is in temper. People do this in different ways. Some heat slightly and shake. What you want to be careful of is heating too high and melting out all of the beta 5 crystals. I heat and pour out all of my cocoa butter colours when I get them and temper the whole thing by tabling. I then pour it onto parchment and let set. I break it all up and store the chards. When I want to use colour I melt out what I need and use some chards as seed. I do it this way for a couple of reasons... I don't use a lot of coloured cocoa butter so by keeping it solid it will last longer. Also, the cocoa butters I use are the Natural ones made with natural colours. They are sensitive to light, heat etc. so don't like being melted out all of the time. Also, by ensuring that I have the cocoa butter in temper, I haven't had any more release problems. Yay! I should note that when I temper, I do it at the very high end of the temper range as I know that I will be encouraging more crystal growth by spreading it around with my finger.

I have never had an issue with new molds. I wouldn't say 'seasoning' them is necessary but it wouldn't hurt.

Good luck :)


Thanks for the advice, I've worked with cocoa butter in the same way with some other molds I have with much better results. I think what might have been the cause is that I didn't let the mold come back to room temp. after putting it in the fridge before swirling the green in and that might have been the issue. I followed the same technique as before but making sure to let the molds come to room temp. before adding the next color and they released just fine. As for melting the cocoa butter, I don't currently have a microwave, so I just put the bottles of cocoa butter into warm/hot water to melt the outside layer and then shake it up to distribute and warm the rest of the cocoa butter, and it seems to be an alright method for now.

I appreciate the feedback though, as always, it's quite the learning curve we chocolatiers have to endure :smile:

#581 RobertM

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 05:13 PM

Vintage Ridge Christmas Order.JPG Just made these this weekend - the picture was taken with my iPhone - sorry for the less than stellar quality (of the picture - the truffles are amazing - even if I say so myself...)

#582 curls

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:07 PM

Bob, they look gorgeous! What are the flavors?

#583 Chocolot

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:16 PM

Wow, Bob. You are doing good work!!

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#584 punk patissier

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 05:07 AM

i can get a copy for £60 pounds which i guess is about $120. Its alot but its getting rarer and rarer so im going to get one soon.

#585 RobertM

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:41 AM

Chocolot - your appreciation is of the highest honor I could imagine, THANK YOU
Curls - With the exception of the marbled ones, they are Cabernet Sauvignon from a local vintner. I was getting bored (and they gave me carte blanche to do my own thing). I made a caramel with their wine, then filled the mold 1/2 way with the wine caramel and then completed the truffle with the wine ganache - oh, yeah - I forgot, a tad bit of Fleur de Sel to just kick it off nicely). So, that's the surprise that awaits them in the marbled one -
Oh - and may I say - I'll be bringing those for a sample in March to the conference - they are darn yummy..........,

#586 punk patissier

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:19 AM

mate!!these are beautiful, and such great ideas for the filling.
Hope to see some more pics up very soon. Very inspiring.

Edited by punk patissier, 05 December 2011 - 11:22 AM.


#587 punk patissier

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:21 AM

So......after about 2 years of trying, i finally have a job interview at Paul A Youngs chocolatier(google it) in London, England tomorrow. Its for an assistant job but il gladly start from the bottom and work up. Ive got expierience in chocolate thanks to Various chefs ive worked for/with but was wondering if anyone had any advice/quick revision tips or access to resources that could help me with some quick last minute revision? Ive done the ground work, got some pics of previous work ive done but any advice would be great. Ive a feeling i need to impress as jobs here are very few and far between and are also much sought after.

Cheers

Stu



[Manager note: The discussion continues in Chocolates with that Showroom Finish, 2012 - ]





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