35 replies to this topic

[Al_Dente]

I'm tasked with making some collard greens for Thanksgiving this year. I've only made them a few times, but in each instance I used ham hocks. What can I substitute to give a similar earthy richness? I was considering roasting some shallots and garlic and adding them at some point in the process, but I'm not sure of the best way to go about this.

Any ideas?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Since there is nothing inherently wrong with the fresh collard greens and the sauteed vegetables you plan on using, if all you are missing is the saltiness and fat of the missing ham hock, I would say that using a piece of kosher smoked turkey will give you that missing ingredient's flavors ... some sort of a kosher sausage might do it as well .. I use Rubashkin's Polish kosher sausage, sparingly, to add the missing "zing" ...

[FistFullaRoux]

Sure. Just buy a smoked turkey leg or two and drop them in there. Check the turkey smoked sausage as well. I've had good luck with that.

Or if you are willing to experiment, could someone actually smoke the greens? Wilt them down, then finish cooking them low and slow in an actual smoker. Just use an oven safe pan, and stick them on the rack.

Wonder if that would work?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Or if you are willing to experiment, could someone actually smoke the greens? Wilt them down, then finish cooking them low and slow in an actual smoker. Just use an oven safe pan, and stick them on the rack.

in a word, Rubashkin .. don't make it too complicated, Al ...

[NulloModo]

Hmmm, a pan of smoked greens could be interesting. I will also echo the advice of a smoked turkey leg though, or perhaps a couple drops of liquid smoke added to the pot liquor. Don't forget to add a bit of extra fat (olive oil I guess would work, or peanut oil, I suppose butter isn't kosher for all uses?) to make up for the leaner than pork turkey-meat.

[bloviatrix]

I find that chipotles add a nice level to smokiness - if you're looking for that kind of flavor.

[slkinsey]

FistFullaRoux has the right idea: use a smoked turkey leg in place of the smoked ham hock. Tastes very similar.

[Mabelline]

Uhmmmm....smoked turkey leg....there's your answer.

[achevres]

At Ms Tootsie's, a great soul food restaurant in Philadelphia, they do all their greens with the aforementioned smoked turkey.

[bloviatrix]

Al -- you might know this already, but your best bet for finding the smoked turkey leg will be at one of the kosher markets in Silver Spring.

[Mayhaw Man]

Cook them in kosher chicken stock and heave in some schmaltz for extra goodness. I do this all the time, and I am in the most unkosher kitchen in the world. It's good, and that's good enough for me!

[Al_Dente]

Al -- you might know this already, but your best bet for finding the smoked turkey leg will be at one of the kosher markets in Silver Spring.

This is good-- VERY good. I work in Silver Spring. But, alas, I don't know where the kosher markets are.

But I'll find them! Great idea on the turkey leg folks-- perfect, in fact!

[reesek]

Al,

I've made wonderfully smoky collard greens by using smoked leeks, shallots and onions. I think i used hickory, and a little stovetop smoker.

[FistFullaRoux]

OK, so it seems the turkey leg is a good idea. To make up for the fat difference, you could use olive oil, or schmaltz.

Turkey and schmaltz should go together, right?

[Gifted Gourmet]

I do this all the time, and I am in the most unkosher kitchen in the world.

I think your kitchen is probably more kosher than you think .. if you take your pig cooking outside!

Turkey and schmaltz should go together, right?

Schmaltz goes with pretty much everything, FistFullaRoux .. with the possible exception of a banana split ...

[Swisskaese]

My mother makes them with smoked beef keilbasa.

[Gifted Gourmet]

My mother makes them with smoked beef keilbasa.

Which is why I said Rubashkin ...

[Suzanne F]

I've used lots of chopped-up Empire smoked turkey lunch meat. Along with sauteed onion and a little bit of hot pepper flakes and vinegar. Tasted all right to me, and I usually use smoked hock stock when it's just us without my beloved Aunt Bette who keeps kosher.

[Swisskaese]

My mother makes them with smoked beef keilbasa.

Which is why I said Rubashkin ...

Is that the brand name? I couldn't remember which brand she bought.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Is that the brand name? I couldn't remember which brand she bought.

I don't know but it is the one which is currently available here in Atlanta ... and it is both smoky and salty .. and, of course, kosher!

[EliseMF]

I've used lots of chopped-up Empire smoked turkey lunch meat.    Along with sauteed onion and a little bit of hot pepper flakes and vinegar. Tasted all right to me, and I usually use smoked hock stock when it's just us without my beloved Aunt Bette who keeps kosher.

I can get a product here in Westport, CT at the Stop and Shop- called Rubashkin's Turkey Schwarma-- bone in turkey thigh--(this has nothing to do with schwarma, by the way) You can use it exactly like a smoked ham hock.
If I can get in MY town- I'm sure it is widely available.
I use it cubed up in any recipe that calls for bacon or ham or proscuitto.
(and slice it and fry it up with eggs or an omelet- YUM)
It very smoky and fatty enough.

[EliseMF]

But here is another recipe question for the Kosher Kontingent:
is there anything to substitute for evaporated milk?
I have a great dairy pumpkin pie that uses it, but I can't imagine what to substitute that would be as good.

[phaelon56]

The smoked turkey legs, assuming one can find them in the Kosher variety, will work great. Many folks in the African-American community no longer use smoked neckbones or ham hocks in their greens for health and/or religious reasons (both the Muslim and Seventh Day Adventist faiths have dietary prohibitions against pork). I've been havings with the turkey legs for the last couple years and enjoy them very much. Judging by the fat visible the next day on the surface of refrigerated leftover greens.... there's no shortage of fat in the smoked turkey legs. I don't thibnk it's really necessary to add any additional fat - the untrimmed leg with skin has plenty.

[bloviatrix]

Al--

How did the collards work out? Successful?

[Gifted Gourmet]

But here is another recipe question for the Kosher Kontingent:
is there anything to substitute for evaporated milk?
I have a great dairy pumpkin pie that uses it, but I can't imagine what to substitute that would be as good.

I always substitute Coffee Rich for the evaporated milk because it contains no dairy products ... it isn't the same but it does work well enough and I add a bit of brandy to give the pie a bit of that missing item ...

[Al_Dente]

Al--

How did the collards work out?  Successful?

Indeed they were. The smoked turkey leg suggestion was just the thing. Once the greens were sufficiently tender, I took out the legs before dinner and those of us who were cooking snacked on the delicious meat.

Might have been the best collard greens I ever had!!! Certainly best I ever made.

eGullet works wonders again...

Al

PS-- I was running a little low on home made stock, so I reached for a box of chicken broth in my fridge. As I poured some of it into the pot, I wondered "why is this cloudy and off-white?" Yep, I poured about 1/4 cup of soy milk into the collard greens before I stopped. Who knows? Maybe that's why they were so good. I guess that's what you get for cooking whilst hung-over at 7am.

Edited by Al_Dente, 26 November 2004 - 12:56 PM.

[Gifted Gourmet]

the chicken stock, Al, was it, you know, kosher?

[Al_Dente]

the chicken stock, Al, was it, you know, kosher?

Yes, it was-- both the home-made and the stuff in a box.

[Gifted Gourmet]

You then are worthy of great sensitivity in the field of Kosher Kollard Green Kooking!

[bloviatrix]

PS-- I was running a little low on home made stock, so I reached for a box of chicken broth in my fridge. As I poured some of it into the pot, I wondered "why is this cloudy and off-white?" Yep, I poured about 1/4 cup of soy milk into the collard greens before I stopped. Who knows? Maybe that's why they were so good.  I guess that's what you get for cooking whilst hung-over at 7am.

Well in that case you're going to have to try making them again with turkey legs. Maybe two pots? One with just stock and the other with the combo and let us know what your master recipe is.